| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| Tellish_of_Ket10-26-05, 03:33 PM | Have fun, be nice, yadda yadda. At leas try to, though sometimes it can be frustrating. That's why the earlier the fights are ran, and tactics submited, the more time for things to get fixed and the happier everyone is. Now, with that being said...it's 1.5 hrs until D-Time, and no sign of any roster upkeep and Pitlords is nowhere in sight. Me thinks today, pairings will be later than usual. -ToK |
| One_Winged_Angel10-26-05, 03:36 PM | 1st post! For all parties involved: I recently recieved a message from Tellish about Azriel. Her vigor stones are ML 3, not 5. I'll add this to an PM to both the pitlord and my opponent. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-26-05, 03:37 PM | 1st post! Really? Cuz i could have sworn i posted first :P **EDIT For all parties involved: I recently recieved a message from Tellish about Azriel. Her vigor stones are ML 3, not 5. I'll add this to an PM to both the pitlord and my opponent. You still have time to make the changes to your character sheet -ToK |
| Sindorin10-26-05, 03:40 PM | Why can't you simply change them to ML3 stones? There's plenty of time before pairings to do so... |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-26-05, 03:52 PM | Why can't you simply change them to ML3 stones? There's plenty of time before pairings to do so... Apparently his browser was crashing whenever he tried to edit his character...or something like that. -ToK |
| NiQil10-26-05, 03:54 PM | Apparently his browser was crashing whenever he tried to edit his character...or something like that. -ToK I think he just wanted an excuse to make the first reply in the thread LOL |
| Caterane10-26-05, 03:54 PM | Second time I read that you thought pairings will be late. Unless I announce it, this won't happen (plus minus one hour is still within normal parameters). Stop editing now. |
| One_Winged_Angel10-26-05, 03:55 PM | Actually, I thought the opening of this thread indicated no more editing characters... Well, in that case, lemme see if the page will load this time! EDIT: Ok, changes made. Lesson learned: When your computer won't load a page, use your roomies :P |
| NiQil10-26-05, 03:55 PM | Second time I read that you thought pairings will be late. Unless I announce it, this won't happen (plus minus one hour is still within normal parameters). Stop editing now. Cat...once again you have your time wrong....editing times don't end for another hour and change. Unless you are talking about ToK editing his post....in which case disregard. |
| Snommelp10-26-05, 04:07 PM | Friendly reminder to Pitlords: Grik challenged Aquin, who accepted. I know (or at least, I think) you got a PM about it, and the sheets are labeled as such, but reminders are good things. See? ---> :D :D |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-26-05, 04:09 PM | Second time I read that you thought pairings will be late. Unless I announce it, this won't happen (plus minus one hour is still within normal parameters). Stop editing now. Well, i just get a little nervous is all. lol. I'm just anxious for the next set of pairings to put the hurt on some of my fellow gladiators. -ToK *EDIT Friendly reminder to Pitlords: Grik challenged Aquin, who accepted. I know (or at least, I think) you got a PM about it, and the sheets are labeled as such, but reminders are good things. See? ---> :D :D Include it as part of your title. Ready Oct 26, 2005. chllgn Aquin (accepted) |
| Snommelp10-26-05, 04:13 PM | Include it as part of your title. Ready Oct 26, 2005. chllgn Aquin (accepted) I did. That's what I meant by "the sheets are labeled as such." I also meant that my bed-sheets had been stained with Sahuagin blood because Grik wanted to practice before the fight... does anyone know of a good dry-cleaner in Gladius? |
| TheMagister10-26-05, 04:17 PM | So I'm still in under the wire? I got busy at work and only JUST now finished updating Sdentch's sheet. Pretty please let her fight? Please? TM |
| NiQil10-26-05, 04:22 PM | So I'm still in under the wire? I got busy at work and only JUST now finished updating Sdentch's sheet. Pretty please let her fight? Please? TM You should be fine...there are approx 35 minutes left until pairings begin. |
| TelinArtho10-26-05, 04:22 PM | If the sahaugin got to your bedchamber - then you might want to be considering some new tactics... Aquin would've been able to kill you while you slept. He's also quite capable of taking you out while awake... Here Orcie orcie orcie... |
| Caterane10-26-05, 04:47 PM | @all: From the beginning of time, I've done the pairings on 10 PM my time. I don't have to get up early tomorow but that's an exception so beginning on 11 PM my time is very hard because I need 3 hours. From now on, I can tell you when to stop editing if you want. |
| TelinArtho10-26-05, 04:50 PM | I always thought it was 9pm your time? Oh well - figures the one night that I end up being able to be around when pairings are posted they'll be posted later than usual. Oh well... Time to go have fun thinking of other tactics to kill Grik with this week. That and to plan the tactics against Pale and Krunch next week... |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-26-05, 04:52 PM | I must be on crack, for some reason i kept thinking 9pm GMT was 5 pm EST. It's actually 4 PM according to the map. So Cat was right. STOP EDITING!!! For GAWDS SAKE MAN, JUST STOP IT!! -ToK **EDIT That and to plan the tactics against Pale and Krunch next week... Roll over and play dead comes to mind. :P |
| NiQil10-26-05, 04:55 PM | @all: From the beginning of time, I've done the pairings on 10 PM my time. I don't have to get up early tomorow but that's an exception so beginning on 11 PM my time is very hard because I need 3 hours. From now on, I can tell you when to stop editing if you want. Cat....take a look at the time zone maps. DST is still in effect. Deadline does not come for another 3 minutes. We've had this discussion several times. It won't change for another week or two (forget the date that DST goes away). |
| TheMagister10-26-05, 04:56 PM | Ack! I forgot to change Torgirr's Title line to "Ready"! I thought I had got to it in time b/c of Tellish, but I guess I didn't. I'll send a PM to Cat to make sure he's paired (hope he's in a good mood...) TM |
| NiQil10-26-05, 04:59 PM | I must be on crack, for some reason i kept thinking 9pm GMT was 5 pm EST. It's actually 4 PM according to the map. So Cat was right. STOP EDITING!!! For GAWDS SAKE MAN, JUST STOP IT!! -ToK **EDIT Roll over and play dead comes to mind. :P The timezone map is incorrect, primarily because it no longer includes the adjustments for DST that were on it when I originally submitted it. Deadline just passed a minute ago. This won't change until DST goes away. It seems like we have this discussion every couple of weeks..... |
| TelinArtho10-26-05, 05:01 PM | **EDIT Roll over and play dead comes to mind. :P Not quite - might be similar to Roll Over Krunch on the way to Pale though... man that was weak... How about Aquin will shoot a crossbow bolt through Krunch that will also affect Pale? No.... Hrmmm... Okay - Grik and Aquin will kick your collective butts. There! |
| Mind Rogue10-26-05, 05:02 PM | Well, by my clock, due time was about 5 minutes ago. This is also a reminder to all Americans that Sunday is the end of Daylight Savings Time so you'll need to put your clocks back an hour. I can't say for certain, but I think it is possible that some places in Europe end earlier which is causing confusion. And Cat, if you want to bring the time forward, I suggest you change it on the rules thread so we don't need to have decrees on the matter. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-26-05, 05:04 PM | Aquin will be trying to swim in acid, while his little pal Grik will get the big mighty chop from Krunch (or two) and cleaving into what's left of Aquin as he melts into a small puddle on the floor. How about dem' apples? -ToK |
| TheMagister10-26-05, 05:05 PM | [smartaleckco*ky-on] Sdentch just got power attack. I'm just waiting for some juicy mage type to swat since I've no longer got the sleep/CDG axe hanging over my +4 will save character's head. Doom away. She'll still one-hit kill you.[/smartaleckco*ky-off] TM |
| NiQil10-26-05, 05:06 PM | Mind Rogue has the right of it.....and just for reference, here is a link to world times. http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com Per this site, 9 pm gmt just passed......not when Cat said to stop posting almost an hour ago. |
| Usurpator10-26-05, 05:09 PM | Well, it's here, especially for those who can't stand the tension of waiting for the pairings anymore: This week's Gladius Arena Weekly (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=501035) ! |
| TelinArtho10-26-05, 05:09 PM | You know, with Aquin's touch AC already at 15 to start with, and another 2-5 from shield of faith - unless you are using true strike - that Acid Arrow's going to have a hard time hitting... Plus its difficult to target an invisible guy- unless you use a see invisibility... Well, its real tough to cast when you've got 4 javelins stuck through your skull... As for Krunch - he's no threat... he can't even hit me reliably... |
| TheMagister10-26-05, 05:13 PM | Well, it's here, especially for those who can't stand the tension of waiting for the pairings anymore: This week's Gladius Arena Weekly (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=501035) ! Man, that "Krunch" excerpt just left me ROFL! Sdentch is Level 5...maybe you'll get lucky and get HER. (heh heh...) Poor Crovax... Keep up the fanTAStic work, Usurpator! TM |
| SoulLord10-26-05, 05:14 PM | Hickory Dickory Dock The mouse Ran up the clock the clock struck Now! The mouse ran down Hickory Dickory Dock. Hickory Dickory Dock The sheets must all be done. if not right now you'll be brought down Hickory Dickory Dock. |
| NiQil10-26-05, 05:17 PM | Ick....after doing some estimating...with the amount of gladiators we will most likely have active, I am betting we see a few team fights, some FFA's and more monster fights. The reason? Lack of pitlords. I had to go offline this week due to the pending holiday weekend, Huan is out, Book5 has lowered his fight capabilities, nightbanegod did the same...the list goes on.....it would not at all surprise me if we have characters even get rolled out due to lack of pitlords. Granted, this was just a rough estimate, so I may be way off......but it could be ugly. |
| Usurpator10-26-05, 05:19 PM | Man, that "Krunch" excerpt just left me ROFL! Sdentch is Level 5...maybe you'll get lucky and get HER. (heh heh...) Poor Crovax... Keep up the fanTAStic work, Usurpator! TM You have to thank Tellish for the Krunch excerpt, I made only a minor edit. @Anyone: If you have any good 'in-character' contributions like Tellish, please send them over. |
| TelinArtho10-26-05, 05:19 PM | Well, I suppose I should just officially PM pitlords to set me to MAX then. I always seem to have the time - so its not like it would kill me. Anyway - if Pitlords reads this and we seem to be running short this week - go ahead and assign a few more to me. |
| TheMagister10-26-05, 05:19 PM | I'd LOVE to pitlord! But since I'm workin' days, I just couldn't guarantee that I could get a fight done over the weekend. I could sure use the credits, though... TM |
| Enterik10-26-05, 05:20 PM | Ick....after doing some estimating...with the amount of gladiators we will most likely have active, I am betting we see a few team fights, some FFA's and more monster fights. The reason? Lack of pitlords. I had to go offline this week due to the pending holiday weekend, Huan is out, Book5 has lowered his fight capabilities, nightbanegod did the same...the list goes on.....it would not at all surprise me if we have characters even get rolled out due to lack of pitlords. Granted, this was just a rough estimate, so I may be way off......but it could be ugly. I suppose I could try to run one. It probably won't be perfect but I tend to be responsive. So if you're scraping the bottom of the barrel, give me a low ECL to cut my pitlord teeth upon... |
| Usurpator10-26-05, 05:22 PM | Ick....after doing some estimating...with the amount of gladiators we will most likely have active, I am betting we see a few team fights, some FFA's and more monster fights. Well, I did my best. Went from 4 gladiators fighting in the arena two weeks ago, to 2 active last week and now only 1 active gladiator. |
| The Undershadow10-26-05, 05:22 PM | Well, I could always try and take an extra fight as well this week. I actually have an open weekend. |
| Iced10-26-05, 05:25 PM | i'll do anything but a regular arena fight. Monster fights/Miniquests/Quests/Campaigns. If it's needed i'll take all of the miniquests and monster fights for the week. |
| Mind Rogue10-26-05, 05:31 PM | I guess that means that I volunteer to have my match be a team one so that we can get 4 out pretty easily. It can't possibly take any longer to run than Anya vs Perious. ;) Sorry about that Telin. Hickory Dickory Dock The mouse Ran up the clock the clock struck Now! The mouse ran down Hickory Dickory Dock. Hickory Dickory Dock The sheets must all be done. if not right now you'll be brought down Hickory Dickory Dock. Great, so now I'm fashionable again. Looks like I'll need to come up with a new schtick. |
| Snommelp10-26-05, 05:36 PM | Does Germany even do the Daylight Savings Time thing? Because I know that most of the US does (although Arizona does not), but we also use feet and miles while the rest of the world uses the metric system. |
| SoulLord10-26-05, 05:41 PM | I guess that means that I volunteer to have my match be a team one so that we can get 4 out pretty easily. It can't possibly take any longer to run than Anya vs Perious. ;) Sorry about that Telin. Great, so now I'm fashionable again. Looks like I'll need to come up with a new schtick. he he he I thought you were predating on me before. but alas I'll find a new rhyme so you can continue with this one. how about There's a neat little clock,-- In the schoolroom it stands,-- And it points to the time With its two little hands. And may we, like the clock, Keep a face clean and bright, With hands ever ready To do what is right. SO STOP YOUR EDITING NOW! |
| The Undershadow10-26-05, 05:43 PM | Does Germany even do the Daylight Savings Time thing? Because I know that most of the US does (although Arizona does not), but we also use feet and miles while the rest of the world uses the metric system. Arizona is all screwy. The southern end uses the metric system, while the northern end uses the american system. |
| NiQil10-26-05, 05:46 PM | Arizona is all screwy. The southern end uses the metric system, while the northern end uses the american system. Arizonans<---for allowing their state to be all funky like that, they should be shot. In the face. With a hammer. No offense, Snommelp :D |
| SoulLord10-26-05, 05:49 PM | Succumb before the powerful logic of the metric system! |
| Sindorin10-26-05, 06:05 PM | If need be I could get my old arena map out and run a fight. If need be, though. My brother might be coming to visit this weekend, and I want to hopefully wrap up Huan's quest as soon as I can, plus there's that 10 page paper that has been looming. |
| NiQil10-26-05, 06:09 PM | Hopefully I am wrong and it won't be as bad as I thought....good to know that people are willing to step to help out though. Wish I could run fights, but this time of year gets real busy for me, so it's gonna vary from week to week. This weekend, for example, I have two different Halloween parties, my RL D&D game, and trick-or-treating to attend with my daughter. |
| TelinArtho10-26-05, 06:22 PM | I just got a warm fuzzy... I'm Pitlords' hero for taking more fights... :) Okay back to your regularly scheduled program... and if I have to run another 70 round marathon this week - everyone will pay for it (with snide comments included throughout...) |
| NiQil10-26-05, 06:26 PM | I just got a warm fuzzy... I'm Pitlords' hero for taking more fights... :) Okay back to your regularly scheduled program... and if I have to run another 70 round marathon this week - everyone will pay for it (with snide comments included throughout...) So how is that any different from what we put up with from you now, exactly? :D |
| Mind Rogue10-26-05, 06:28 PM | I just got a warm fuzzy... I'm Pitlords' hero for taking more fights... :) Okay back to your regularly scheduled program... and if I have to run another 70 round marathon this week - everyone will pay for it (with snide comments included throughout...) So note to self: include tactics that if the shooting match goes beyond 30 rounds, tap skate, double move, and hope they don't run outside of range for a maximized fire ray. That should end the match quickly. Hey NiQil, nice avatar. |
| TelinArtho10-26-05, 06:30 PM | So how is that any different from what we put up with from you now, exactly? :D Its different because I'll include them in every action that a character makes... |
| NiQil10-26-05, 06:33 PM | Its different because I'll include them in every action that a character makes... LOL hope ya don't end up with any of my characters then...like I said my standard ammo payload is 100 arrows :P |
| Snommelp10-26-05, 07:14 PM | Whew... I'm glad pairings aren't up yet. I actually had to do work today at work, which could have hurt my status as "that guy who always gets tactics in five minutes after pairings or sooner." |
| Sindorin10-26-05, 07:41 PM | Omgroflmaolol!!! |
| The Undershadow10-26-05, 07:45 PM | Wow. What's so funny. |
| Snommelp10-26-05, 07:47 PM | Wow. What's so funny. I think he's laughing at me, and I think he's laughing because pairings were posted ten minutes ago, and I boasted about getting tactics in in five. |
| Pitlords10-26-05, 08:02 PM | PAIRINGS DONE Credit Changes: +8: Tellish +7: Huan +5: King +4: Vathelokai +3: Iced, Luni +2: Undershadow, Caterane +1: Begferdeth, Book5, Maraxus, Usurpator, Enterik, LLMadCow, TelinArtho +0: Cerebus, Gonbow, Mindrogue, Soullord, Snommelp -1: Nightbanegod -2: Sindorin, NiQil For Pitlords +6: Telin +4: King, Tellish +3: Luni +2: Huan, Undershadow +1: Begferdeth, Book5, Cerebus, Gonbow, Iced, Maraxus, Mindrogue, Soullord, Snommelp, Usurpator, Enterik For Quests: +4: Vathelokai -1: Cerebus, Huan (late), Soullord, Telin (late), Tellish, Usurpator (late), King (late) -2: Sindorin (1xlate) For Campaigns: +6: Huan +3: Iced, King, Tellish For Active PCs: -1: Gonbow, Mindrogue, Nightbanegod -2: Iced, Tellish, NiQil -3: King -4: Telin Special Credits: +4: Tellish (Maps) +2: Caterane (GM), Usurpator (Weekly/Map) +1: LLMadCow (Prisonlord), Telin (refund), King (refund) -1: Snommelp (challenge), Telin (challenge) - We have a serious Pitlord problem this week. Without TelinArtho's help to run a lot of fights, and me assigning King and Tok to arena fights, it wouldn't have worked out. I will be available for <max> fights from Nov 8 on. Let's try to bridge that time, please. - Editing Deadline: I thought 9 PM GMT is a fixed time but if that's not the case, we will just use 10 PM German Time because that's when I roll pairings. I cannot wait till 11 PM because it's too late obviously. I'd be still sitting here at 2 AM in the morning - like now, for example :/ - As announced last week, late quests will from now on also bestow credit penalties on the players. - Kaigan's Campaign is dissolved because he leaves the coco once again. All characters are freed from the campaign and can participate in the arena normally. There will be a credit refund of 1° per player. Please add the XP and treasure you found so far, if any. Please send me a PM if your character gained a level! - There are 2 Gatekeepers on the Roster. Iced and Tagg, please discuss who's going to change the name a bit. |
| Snommelp10-26-05, 08:07 PM | If there's ever a pitlord problem again, Cat, I'll be happy to take another fight. |
| TaggIIV10-26-05, 08:10 PM | Well, mine was the original.. but since I don't really plan on using him Iced can have it. You can take mine off the roster and if I want to return him I'll think of a new name. |
| Pitlords10-26-05, 08:17 PM | Forgot to add Varia. She gets a monster: Va'ria Theladrais (Sindorin) vs 3 Howlers [Monsters]: Iced Iced+1° |
| Luni10-26-05, 08:21 PM | Oh goodie, I'm the official Level 6 pitlord! Aside: i thought I had set Ariel to ready, but it turns out for some odd reason I deleted it. *shurgs*. C'est la vie. |
| Poe The Great10-26-05, 08:21 PM | Only one problem- Wolfcaller is now level 4, not level 3, yet he's paired with a level 3 combatant. >_> |
| The Undershadow10-26-05, 08:22 PM | @ pitlords Did you get my pm about the one fight with no pitlord. |
| Ravashack10-26-05, 08:26 PM | Tactics sent in to Huan. |
| Pitlords10-26-05, 08:27 PM | Jessie (Oldmangray) vs Tanglewood Breeze (TelinArtho): TheUndershadow has been added. Undershadow +1° |
| Snommelp10-26-05, 08:28 PM | All tactics have been sent by PM. Violation on Ielenia's opponent Kermadec (NiQil) has been posted in the prison. Tactics for Archie and Alac have not been received. Tactics for Greefe and The Wolfcaller have not been received. |
| Pitlords10-26-05, 08:32 PM | Slight Change: Kracknol (SauroGrenom) vs 2 Duergar Dwarves [Monster]: Tellish of Ket Greefe (Ribking) vs The Wolfcaller (Poe The Great): Snommelp King-1°, Snommelp+1° |
| Pitlords10-26-05, 08:37 PM | @Poe the Great!!! You have not linked any of your fights. That's a RED VIOLATION. Please retrieve the links! This is especially bad because you're listed as 2:1 on the roster but 3:0 on your sheet. I cannot check that without links. |
| Macbrea10-26-05, 08:51 PM | Tactics sent |
| The Undershadow10-26-05, 09:00 PM | @mindrogue tactics recieved @Huan Tactics sent by PM. Waiting for tactics from TelinArtho(x2), Oldmangray, Dracazar, and Dr. Funk |
| Sindorin10-26-05, 09:23 PM | Cool, Va'ria's 2nd monster fight in a row. Am I correct in believing that since the Howler's entry says "None" under treasure they won't get all that crazy equipment that kills other pc's? |
| Snommelp10-26-05, 09:27 PM | Cool, Va'ria's 2nd monster fight in a row. Am I correct in believing that since the Howler's entry says "None" under treasure they won't get all that crazy equipment that kills other pc's? Nope. Unless I'm mistaken, CoCo monsters are armed as if they were regular NPCs. Now, whether the howler can use the items is a different question... |
| Mal-210-26-05, 09:36 PM | @King Uther: Tactics sent for Donak. This is my first fight in the arena, and I'm excited. Thanks to everyone involved for running things. |
| Sindorin10-26-05, 09:42 PM | OH. Well, um... Tactics for Va'ria sent. I don't see how the buggers could ever manage to fire a ranged weapon, so her tactics are pretty straightforward. If they have equipment, let me know plz. |
| One_Winged_Angel10-26-05, 10:03 PM | Tactics for Azriel sent to Mind Rogue. Please confirm. Tactics for Wraith sent the TelinArtho. Please confirm. @NiQil: Enjoy the free win. :( |
| NiQil10-26-05, 10:09 PM | @ TelinArtho: Tactics for Axhind and Amantar sent via PM @ Begferdeth: Tactics for Kermadec sent via PM @ Huan: Tactics for Keltsat sent via PM |
| Luni10-26-05, 10:17 PM | @King Uther: Tactics sent for Talari's snoozefest of a fight. @Snommelp: I received your tactics. |
| TelinArtho10-26-05, 10:53 PM | Tactics received for: Amantar (PM), Axhind (PM), Yari (via PM AND Email - now that's thorough...), Wraith (Email) Will be sending mine either tonight or during the day tomorrow. |
| Mind Rogue10-26-05, 10:57 PM | @ Angel I got your tactics. In the future, I prefer to recieve them via PM over Email. |
| Macbrea10-26-05, 10:58 PM | Nah, just happen to notice i was suppose to send those to you by e-mail after I had sent it by PM. |
| One_Winged_Angel10-26-05, 11:04 PM | @ Angel I got your tactics. In the future, I prefer to recieve them via PM over Email. Noted. |
| Luni10-26-05, 11:09 PM | IF you do send tactics over email, make sure to say somethign here about it. I had one person's tactics actually thrown into the Junk Email filter for some odd reason. |
| Iced10-26-05, 11:34 PM | Well, mine was the original.. but since I don't really plan on using him Iced can have it. You can take mine off the roster and if I want to return him I'll think of a new name. Thanks alot man! I realized that I had the same name as your character after I had written up my (long) backstory. I was trying to think of an appropriate name all day today. |
| Mind Rogue10-27-05, 12:14 AM | @ Telin Anya's tactics sent via PM. I hope this match goes a little faster than the last one. |
| TelinArtho10-27-05, 12:17 AM | I've received tactics for the Dire Flame I've sent tactics for Delaria to Uther via PM. I've sent tactics for Tanglewood to the undershadow via email I'll send tactics for Vakkor, Kraegin and Aquin tomorrow |
| TelinArtho10-27-05, 12:18 AM | @mindrogue - received |
| The Undershadow10-27-05, 12:37 AM | @telinartho Emailed tactics received. @oldmangray received tactics Will run one fight tonight. |
| Pauper10-27-05, 04:28 AM | @ Snommelp - tactics for Alac Rensellaer sent via PM (in two parts, as I easily filled up the 5000 character limit with my first draft) Hopefully this will be seen as thorough rather than irritating and longwinded... :) -- Pauper |
| Pitlords10-27-05, 05:55 AM | Cool, Va'ria's 2nd monster fight in a row. Am I correct in believing that since the Howler's entry says "None" under treasure they won't get all that crazy equipment that kills other pc's? They're normally equipped according to Table 4-23 on DMG, p127. This is modified by their treasure entry. If it says double standard, it has double what is listed on p127. If it says 'none' it has no equipment at all asides from that mentioned in its entry. |
| TheMagister10-27-05, 06:55 AM | Sdentch (TheMagister) vs 1 Djinni Genie [Monster]: Iced First of all: @Pitlords: oh, you're a mean one. Secondly: @Iced: PM me when you get equipment picked out for this fight. @All: can you physically damage a djinni in whirlwind form? TM |
| Pittbull10-27-05, 06:55 AM | ToK: Please give me the equipment of the Spirit Naga. OMG what an oponent. @KU: I wish you'd readied Virgo. |
| TheMagister10-27-05, 06:58 AM | ToK: Please give me the equipment of the Spirit Naga. OMG what an oponent. @KU: I wish you'd readied Virgo. Better you than me, friend. Jeez... TM |
| Vathelokai10-27-05, 07:32 AM | @SoulLord: Auburn's blueprint for the annihilation of the Devolved Sleestak sent by PM. |
| Caterane10-27-05, 08:38 AM | Tactics for Merman sent to Usurpator. |
| waywreth10-27-05, 08:53 AM | @Tellish of Ket - Tactics for: Aramur (Usurpator) vs Dargain Dar'ath (Waywreth) sent. @Maraxus - Tactics for: Arbados (King Uther) vs Casgish Darath (Waywreth) sent. |
| Sindorin10-27-05, 09:08 AM | They're normally equipped according to Table 4-23 on DMG, p127. This is modified by their treasure entry. If it says double standard, it has double what is listed on p127. If it says 'none' it has no equipment at all asides from that mentioned in its entry. Ah, thanks! That means the tactics I sent to Iced SHOULD be valid... here's hoping! |
| TelinArtho10-27-05, 10:13 AM | More tactics received: Zassl, Tak and HG Milstead. I think that puts me at 8-10 sets of tactics... Just how many fights did I sign up for?? (just kidding of course). Now to go write the remaining tactics. |
| SoulLord10-27-05, 10:16 AM | @vathelokai tactics for auburn rceived. |
| King Uther10-27-05, 10:42 AM | @Pittbull Do you want me to ready him for next week? I've been reserving him because of the lack of opponents. That way you won't have to fight any more spirit nagas. |
| SoulLord10-27-05, 10:47 AM | @Enterik tactics for devolved received. |
| TelinArtho10-27-05, 10:54 AM | @Luni - tactics for Aquin and Kraegin sent via PM @The Undershadow - tactics for Vakkor sent via PM |
| LongArcher10-27-05, 11:01 AM | @snommelp: tactics forwarded. Actually, I originally sent them to the wrong pitlord, whom then forward them back to me, and which I have re-forwarded them back to you. LOL. You'll see what I mean when you get them. LOL /amz |
| TelinArtho10-27-05, 11:01 AM | @One_Winged_Angel - clarification on your tactics for Wraith needed |
| LongArcher10-27-05, 11:07 AM | @All: A few short minutes ago, I just recieved word about my job getting longer hours and it's quite a load already. As such, this will be my last match in the arena for some time. I would like to thank you all for the time I spent here, but I cannot continue my commitment with the CoCo nor expect certain other things from my partner to do stuff for me as I have too many other commitments at this time and it's not fair to you guys, nor my partner. I bid you all a good day. /amz |
| King Uther10-27-05, 11:11 AM | I just read the Gladius Weekly. Are you that confident ToK? I'm afraid that the Avatar to a Deity is not scared of a dwarf. I like Krunch, though, and I promise to make the match interesting. Looking at it from a logistics standpoint, this will be one of my more challenging fights with Balbanes. You're going to enjoy my tactics for this one. I'm pulling out one of my super-secret strategies for it... |
| King Uther10-27-05, 11:12 AM | Good luck, LongArcher. I longed to fight you, as most of the time we were in the same league. Oh well, that's the way it goes. Have fun, and do not under any circumstances work too much. |
| NiQil10-27-05, 11:13 AM | I just read the Gladius Weekly. Are you that confident ToK? I'm afraid that the Avatar to a Deity is not scared of a dwarf. I like Krunch, though, and I promise to make the match interesting. Looking at it from a logistics standpoint, this will be one of my more challenging fights with Balbanes. You're going to enjoy my tactics for this one. I'm pulling out one of my super-secret strategies for it... Is that anything like being on double-secret probation? |
| TelinArtho10-27-05, 11:19 AM | Tactics I'm missing: Lortavos (Gonbow) Mrs. Buttmunch (sloisel) Griff Mythral (Iced) Tactics that need clarification: Wraith (One_Winged_Angel) I'm going to be running fights as soon as I can - so the sooner the tactics for these remaining are in - the sooner the fight might be completed. I do have 6 on my list this week - so be patient if one or two fights aren't ready until Monday. Good luck to all 12 gladiators! |
| Snommelp10-27-05, 11:21 AM | Tactics for Archie and Alac received. Responses sent (against my better judgement, because Pauper sure can write a lot!). Sorry to see you go, Archer. I'll figure out a nice story to commemorate your last fight. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-27-05, 11:27 AM | I just read the Gladius Weekly. Are you that confident ToK? I'm afraid that the Avatar to a Deity is not scared of a dwarf. I like Krunch, though, and I promise to make the match interesting. Looking at it from a logistics standpoint, this will be one of my more challenging fights with Balbanes. You're going to enjoy my tactics for this one. I'm pulling out one of my super-secret strategies for it... well, it's not that...because at the time i wrote it, there wasn't anyone ready at the ECL 6 or 7 league. I guess this could come back to bite me in the butt that's for sure. You're secret weapon? You mean fooling me with silent image? Kidding right? LOL....or riding hard and fast on your mount and hitting me with all your offensive spells and/or hold person? I tabulated all the dmg from ur spells, they have zero chance of killing me except on multiple crits. The only thing you could do, that i wouldn't expect is to try and out melee me...but then that would be suicide. I didn't write any counter tactics to you melee'ing me, because you die in two hits. Sundering my weapons won't help either as my attack bonuses are far greater than urs. The odds of success are extremely slim. Good luck though. It will definately be the fight of the week....especially since i went and put my foot in my mouth with the Gladius Weekly article. -ToK |
| NiQil10-27-05, 11:32 AM | well, it's not that...because at the time i wrote it, there wasn't anyone ready at the ECL 6 or 7 league. I guess this could come back to bite me in the butt that's for sure. You're secret weapon? You mean fooling me with silent image? Kidding right? LOL....or riding hard and fast on your mount and hitting me with all your offensive spells and/or hold person? I tabulated all the dmg from ur spells, they have zero chance of killing me except on multiple crits. The only thing you could do, that i wouldn't expect is to try and out melee me...but then that would be suicide. I didn't write any counter tactics to you melee'ing me, because you die in two hits. Sundering my weapons won't help either as my attack bonuses are far greater than urs. The odds of success are extremely slim. Good luck though. It will definately be the fight of the week....especially since i went and put my foot in my mouth with the Gladius Weekly article. -ToK "There's nothing like the taste of shoe leather in the morning." |
| TelinArtho10-27-05, 11:50 AM | First fight of the week is up. Man a quick fight like this really spices up my step in the morning... not like that sleeper last week... Tak the Hungry vs Amantar (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7607476) Hey NiQil - have you ever had a fight in on a Thursday? How's that for prompt! |
| TelinArtho10-27-05, 11:53 AM | Hmmm... which one to do next: Anya vs Zassl or Yari vs HG Milstead I should probably get Anya out of the way. The way her last fight went it might take me three times as long... hmmm.... Anya and Zassl it is... |
| Myrridin10-27-05, 12:13 PM | @King Uther: Tactics for Kalarthus have been PM'd. |
| NiQil10-27-05, 12:14 PM | First fight of the week is up. Man a quick fight like this really spices up my step in the morning... not like that sleeper last week... Tak the Hungry vs Amantar (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7607476) Hey NiQil - have you ever had a fight in on a Thursday? How's that for prompt! Promptness is *very much appreciated. I do want to point out, however, that you missed a part of my opening tactic. No need to change it, since it would only use more resources and cause me to not take damage in winning....but you forgot to activate my tattoo of force screen as my very first action. And on that note.....look everyone...I'm finally leveling a character! LOL |
| Sindorin10-27-05, 12:26 PM | well, it's not that...because at the time i wrote it, there wasn't anyone ready at the ECL 6 or 7 league. I guess this could come back to bite me in the butt that's for sure. You're secret weapon? You mean fooling me with silent image? Kidding right? LOL....or riding hard and fast on your mount and hitting me with all your offensive spells and/or hold person? I tabulated all the dmg from ur spells, they have zero chance of killing me except on multiple crits. The only thing you could do, that i wouldn't expect is to try and out melee me...but then that would be suicide. I didn't write any counter tactics to you melee'ing me, because you die in two hits. Sundering my weapons won't help either as my attack bonuses are far greater than urs. The odds of success are extremely slim. Good luck though. It will definately be the fight of the week....especially since i went and put my foot in my mouth with the Gladius Weekly article. -ToK It would have been funny if Cat put everyone who activated at level 6 because of what you said against Krunch... I activated Va'ria, and she gets 3 howlers to pick on, which is still funny. |
| One_Winged_Angel10-27-05, 12:46 PM | @One_Winged_Angel - clarification on your tactics for Wraith needed Clarification sent. Try to enjoy this battle. |
| Pittbull10-27-05, 01:02 PM | @ToK: Hagrid's tactic has been sent. |
| TelinArtho10-27-05, 01:09 PM | Clarification sent. Try to enjoy this battle. Received. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-27-05, 01:29 PM | Oops. Accidently posted in the tavern that two fights are done. Kracknol and Hagrid. -ToK **EDIT 174890 vs naga 1 18d6+12 [6,2,3,5,5,2,2,2,2,4,3,3,4,4,5,4,3,6,12] = (77) dmg of all three atks 2005-10-27 13:21:35.00 That's a lot of dmg. |
| TheMagister10-27-05, 01:48 PM | Tactics for Torgirr vs. Sam sent. Both parts. (darned 5000 character limit...) Sorry. =) TM |
| TelinArtho10-27-05, 02:18 PM | Anya Starfire vs Zassl (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7608575) Almost ended up the same way as Anya's last fight - still pretty close regardless. |
| Enterik10-27-05, 02:25 PM | @SoulLord: Auburn's blueprint for the annihilation of the Devolved Sleestak sent by PM. @SoulLord & @Vathelokai: Devolved's scam for a blue-plate special of steaming grome entrails also PMed... :evillaugh @King Uther & Dr.Funk: Positions determined, Initiative determined, waiting on tactics... |
| Caterane10-27-05, 02:26 PM | And on that note.....look everyone...I'm finally leveling a character! LOL I've already marked that day on my calendar |
| NiQil10-27-05, 02:31 PM | I've already marked that day on my calendar Cat<---probably going to have a celebration tonight that I've had a character around long enough to level LOL |
| TelinArtho10-27-05, 02:48 PM | This post is specifically for HGMilstead (Enterik), but it should be a reminder to everyone: You can only have one free activity per week. This means that if you craft something (of any gold value) - you can't make money using a skill, you can't train an animal, you can't use Gather Information to buy a credit-free item. I made this mistake myself on Delaria and went back and fixed it so I wouldn't be in violation later. I'll say it again: You can only have one free activity per week! |
| Enterik10-27-05, 02:50 PM | This post is specifically for HGMilstead (Enterik), but it should be a reminder to everyone: You can only have one free activity per week. This means that if you craft something (of any gold value) - you can't make money using a skill, you can't train an animal, you can't use Gather Information to buy a credit-free item. I made this mistake myself on Delaria and went back and fixed it so I wouldn't be in violation later. I'll say it again: You can only have one free activity per week! So HG has to choose between making money with craft and writing new spells into her spellbook? If so, she chooses the latter. |
| Pauper10-27-05, 03:05 PM | I've just been informed by the Pitlord running Alac's fight that bats can't deliver touch spells, and that this decision was made some time ago by the Elders. Not to overreact, but my reaction to this is: WTF?!?!?! I'd like some clarification as to why this ruling exists, particularly given that: a) Being able to deliver touch spells is part of the benefit to a spellcaster for having a familiar, b) Creatures 'holding the charge' on a touch spell are considered armed (and thus have a weapon while doing so, even if they don't have a natural weapon), and c) It's trivial to calculate a bat's attack bonus with a touch attack, as it is the creature's BAB (+0) modified by Str (-4). If someone can give me a reasonable defense of this ruling that isn't simply "bats can't attack because they don't have an attack line in their creature writeup", I'll happily concede the point. -- Pauper |
| The Undershadow10-27-05, 03:20 PM | Tanglewood Breeze vs. Jessie is up here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7609003&postcount=554) Wow, these fights are popping up quick. |
| waywreth10-27-05, 03:25 PM | I've just been informed by the Pitlord running Alac's fight that bats can't deliver touch spells, and that this decision was made some time ago by the Elders. Pauper I don't see why not. My owl familiar delivered a touch attack in a prior fight of mine. |
| Mind Rogue10-27-05, 03:36 PM | Anya Starfire vs Zassl (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7608575) Almost ended up the same way as Anya's last fight - still pretty close regardless. Well, Zassl did exactly what I feared he would. The only thing I wonder is where was psionic shot since I said to use it once I was reasonably certain that was the real Zassl - and I think I was pretty certain once he tried enfeebling me. |
| TelinArtho10-27-05, 03:40 PM | Axhind vs Wraith (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7609180) One_Winged_Angel - you have a violation I posted in the prison thread. This was a VERY close fight. Livia should be thanked profusely for making it so close... |
| TelinArtho10-27-05, 03:44 PM | @The_Undershadow - just a small to-do about the fight. Since Tanglewood didn't use all of her poisoned arrows - she gets to keep them as poisoned for future fights. This means that she "used" 4 vials of drow poison, used one drow poisoned arrow, used the poison on her rapier and has two more poisoned arrows for future fights. Also, since the poisoned arrow was a miss, there's a chance that it survives. Using an arrow in a CDG doesn't destroy it necessarily either I don't believe (not sure on that one). |
| NiQil10-27-05, 03:44 PM | Axhind vs Wraith (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7609180) One_Winged_Angel - you have a violation I posted in the prison thread. This was a VERY close fight. Livia should be thanked profusely for making it so close... Don't forget to add my skill earnings to the fight result...60 gp for serving up that monk-brewed ale LOL. |
| TelinArtho10-27-05, 03:46 PM | Well, Zassl did exactly what I feared he would. The only thing I wonder is where was psionic shot since I said to use it once I was reasonably certain that was the real Zassl - and I think I was pretty certain once he tried enfeebling me. Hmm... that's true. The funny thing is I specifically meant to use it there, since it was obvious - wonder where my thought process went... Give me a minute and I'll edit the fight. /d |
| Macbrea10-27-05, 03:52 PM | Using an arrow in a CDG doesn't destroy it necessarily either I don't believe (not sure on that one). "Generally speaking, ammunition that hits its target is destroyed or rendered useless, while normal ammunition that misses has a 50% chance of being destroyed or lost." A CDG is an automatic hit and crit. Therefore that arrow should be gone. According to the rules the poison on the arrows is good until touched or used. |
| Pittbull10-27-05, 04:01 PM | @ToK: Thanks for running the fight. 77 points of damage, two more than avarage, one enough to bring her to -1, whow, this time the online-roller, loved me again. It's so cool, Hagrid starts rocking now! All evil beings be aware, there is at least one Watchful Eye! |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-27-05, 04:15 PM | I've just been informed by the Pitlord running Alac's fight that bats can't deliver touch spells, and that this decision was made some time ago by the Elders. Not to overreact, but my reaction to this is: WTF?!?!?! I'd like some clarification as to why this ruling exists, particularly given that: a) Being able to deliver touch spells is part of the benefit to a spellcaster for having a familiar, b) Creatures 'holding the charge' on a touch spell are considered armed (and thus have a weapon while doing so, even if they don't have a natural weapon), and c) It's trivial to calculate a bat's attack bonus with a touch attack, as it is the creature's BAB (+0) modified by Str (-4). If someone can give me a reasonable defense of this ruling that isn't simply "bats can't attack because they don't have an attack line in their creature writeup", I'll happily concede the point. -- Pauper I don't see why not. My owl familiar delivered a touch attack in a prior fight of mine. Well it's true. A regular bat does not have an attack rating. I was a victim of this a long time ago as well, as i was fond of using the bat to deliver touch-based spells vs invisible opponents. Cat, Jindl, Mag, Fluiddragon, LL, i remember it well, we all agreed that bats cannot. Hence why you never see one of my spellcasters with a bat anymore. There is still imbue with spell ability and they can shoot ray spells or AoE spells, and that's when you would use their bab. Otherwise, i'm afraid your pitlord is correct. -ToK |
| TelinArtho10-27-05, 04:17 PM | @NiQil - fight edited for the free activity. @Mind Rogue - fight edited as well. Seems that it made quite a bit of difference. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-27-05, 04:17 PM | @ToK: Thanks for running the fight. 77 points of damage, two more than avarage, one enough to bring her to -1, whow, this time the online-roller, loved me again. It's so cool, Hagrid starts rocking now! All evil beings be aware, there is at least one Watchful Eye! Had that Naga won initiative, i'm pretty sure Hagrid would have been in way over his head, barring some extreme luck. But as it stands you OWNED her!! -ToK |
| TelinArtho10-27-05, 04:20 PM | Well it's true. A regular bat does not have an attack rating. I was a victim of this a long time ago as well, as i was fond of using the bat to deliver touch-based spells vs invisible opponents. Cat, Jindl, Mag, Fluiddragon, LL, i remember it well, we all agreed that bats cannot. Hence why you never see one of my spellcasters with a bat anymore. There is still imbue with spell ability and they can shoot ray spells or AoE spells, and that's when you would use their bab. Otherwise, i'm afraid your pitlord is correct. -ToK Wish I had known that when I took Awk (the bat) as Daeren's familiar. Not that I would've used a different one - but it would've been something to consider on the build. I personally think that the decision is a bad one. A wizard choosing a bat familiar is specifically choosing a disadvantage (granted it is probably outweighed by the blindsight...). |
| Pittbull10-27-05, 04:20 PM | Had that Naga won initiative, i'm pretty sure Hagrid would have been in way over his head, barring some extreme luck. But as it stands you OWNED her!! -ToK If you are a good boy, the online-roller likes you. :cool: |
| waywreth10-27-05, 04:29 PM | I've just been informed by the Pitlord running Alac's fight that bats can't deliver touch spells, and that this decision was made some time ago by the Elders.Pauper I would say you have a pretty good qualification to post in the Character Changes thread should you decide that a bat might not be the best option after all. Of course as noted above the bat does have its advantages. |
| The Undershadow10-27-05, 04:31 PM | @The_Undershadow - just a small to-do about the fight. Since Tanglewood didn't use all of her poisoned arrows - she gets to keep them as poisoned for future fights. This means that she "used" 4 vials of drow poison, used one drow poisoned arrow, used the poison on her rapier and has two more poisoned arrows for future fights. Also, since the poisoned arrow was a miss, there's a chance that it survives. Using an arrow in a CDG doesn't destroy it necessarily either I don't believe (not sure on that one). Well the first arrow was a hit so it was destroyed, and the second arrow which was the CDG wasn't poisoned, so that was two destroyed arrows(one poisoned). Abut the vials used, I thought you couldget two doses out of ne vial, but I could be wrong. Yes you get to keep the other two arrows. On another note, Alexi Wood vs Vakkor (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7609610&postcount=556) is up. |
| TelinArtho10-27-05, 04:40 PM | @The Undershadow regarding Alexi vs Vakkor: No problems with the fight, though 2 issues on the rewards: 1. Vakkor brought crabbe - a CR1/2 creature - which is a 6.25% penalty for him and a 6.25% bonus for Alexi (75xp penalty, 25xp bonus respectively). 2. Vakkor did use a pearl of power - but it is a 1 use/day item - it isn't an expendable (and therefore doesn't need to be listed in the items used). |
| The Undershadow10-27-05, 04:41 PM | Right, I knew I was going to screw up with that some how. |
| TelinArtho10-27-05, 04:48 PM | Another point - Vakkor wasn't making money this week - he was training a trick to his ally. So the 88gp for the profession skill has to go away... |
| King Uther10-27-05, 04:48 PM | @Pittbull You want to fight Virgo next week? I'll fix his error and put him as active if you want to fight a gladiator. I know we fought a while ago, but that was when you were EL7. |
| The Undershadow10-27-05, 04:54 PM | All right that's fixed too. Also, I'm still waiting on tactics from Dr.Funk, and Dracazar. |
| Enterik10-27-05, 05:01 PM | Waiting on King Uther and Dr. Funk for tactics... |
| SauroGrenom10-27-05, 05:27 PM | Pitlords, I have a minor confustion. I have forwarded tactics to cerebus, but I noticed that this person has no characters in CoCo. So I looked at the members list and there is a cerebus, but that person has not visited the sight in almost two months. I noticed that there is a person Cerebus13 who has a character on CoCo, but that person has only one character that I can see. And it appears Cerebus13 has only made a single post ever. Is there a typo with regard to the name of this pitlord? |
| NiQil10-27-05, 05:29 PM | Pitlords, I have a minor confustion. I have forwarded tactics to cerebus, but I noticed that this person has no characters in CoCo. So I looked at the members list and there is a cerebus, but that person has not visited the sight in almost two months. I noticed that there is a person Cerebus13 who has a character on CoCo, but that person has only one character that I can see. And it appears Cerebus13 has only made a single post ever. Is there a typo with regard to the name of this pitlord? Cerebus13 is the correct name. Bear in mind that when you see the listing for how many posts someone has made in their profile, that only counts posts made on certain boards....it does not count posts made in the Wizards Community boards, which is what CoCo is a part of. |
| Snommelp10-27-05, 05:31 PM | I've just been informed by the Pitlord running Alac's fight that bats can't deliver touch spells, and that this decision was made some time ago by the Elders. Truthfully, I didn't know it either, and thought your opponent was mistaken when he told me about the ruling. I didn't PM you about it until after I had gotten verification from two people I consider authorities. Of course, after I sent you the PM the third person I had PMed for a "second" opinion chimed in saying that you could perhaps try to get permission to get a different type of bat; maybe a vampire instead of the insectovore listed in the MM. That might be a possibility, or it might not, but as per current rulings, normal bat familiars can't deliver touch attacks. |
| One_Winged_Angel10-27-05, 05:35 PM | Don't forget to add my skill earnings to the fight result...60 gp for serving up that monk-brewed ale LOL. ...While I see no violation on the fight, I would like to question the idea of a monk running a bar. Drunken master style fighting, perhaps? |
| SauroGrenom10-27-05, 05:38 PM | Thanks NiQil. |
| NiQil10-27-05, 05:38 PM | ...While I see no violation on the fight, I would like to question the idea of a monk running a bar. Drunken master style fighting, perhaps? What....you've never heard of monk moonshine? Just because they are holier than thou doesn't make em boyscouts LOL. Besides, it's not like I gave him Profession (Prostitution) or something worse LOL |
| Snommelp10-27-05, 05:50 PM | What....you've never heard of monk moonshine? Just because they are holier than thou doesn't make em boyscouts LOL. Besides, it's not like I gave him Profession (Prostitution) or something worse LOL Actually, in the Dark Ages several monestaries sold weak booze as one means of supporting themselves. And alcohol back then in general wasn't nearly as strong as it is today. |
| NiQil10-27-05, 05:55 PM | Actually, in the Dark Ages several monestaries sold weak booze as one means of supporting themselves. And alcohol back then in general wasn't nearly as strong as it is today. Yeah...that's where the inspiration for his profession came from...monks, abbots, other members of the cloth.....it was a cheap and easy way of keeping a monastary going or an abbey or something that didn't see regular contributions from the church or the local lords. |
| King Uther10-27-05, 05:56 PM | @Luni, ToK Do you want to fight in a separat thread. It just seems like the right thing to do. I am writing tactics right now, I just want to know if it's necessary. I am on Yahoo if you want to reach me quickly. |
| One_Winged_Angel10-27-05, 05:57 PM | Actually, in the Dark Ages several monestaries sold weak booze as one means of supporting themselves. And alcohol back then in general wasn't nearly as strong as it is today. ...Dark age monks in Europe also didn't train themselves to smash people with fists. I think the concept is more Eastern monk. Warrior monks were...scary... |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-27-05, 06:15 PM | Pitlords, I have a minor confustion. I have forwarded tactics to cerebus, but I noticed that this person has no characters in CoCo. So I looked at the members list and there is a cerebus, but that person has not visited the sight in almost two months. I noticed that there is a person Cerebus13 who has a character on CoCo, but that person has only one character that I can see. And it appears Cerebus13 has only made a single post ever. Is there a typo with regard to the name of this pitlord? You want Cerebus13. Hey, i've been around for 4 years and i don't think the number of posts in my profile has changed in almost three and a half years now. So, i wouldn't use that as any indicator. -ToK |
| Mind Rogue10-27-05, 06:55 PM | Well the first arrow was a hit so it was destroyed, and the second arrow which was the CDG wasn't poisoned, so that was two destroyed arrows(one poisoned). Abut the vials used, I thought you couldget two doses out of ne vial, but I could be wrong. Yes you get to keep the other two arrows. On another note, Alexi Wood vs Vakkor (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7609610&postcount=556) is up. I was so close to passing that save too. Unfortunatly, there isn't much I can do when the dice don't go my way at all. |
| Maraxus10-27-05, 07:02 PM | Anya Starfire vs Zassl (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7608575) Almost ended up the same way as Anya's last fight - still pretty close regardless. Well, luck was not on my side again. Overall, it worked as I planed, it just was not enough to kill her. Two lucky shots (Arg, I just had to dodge the one with psionic shot) and I'm down. And again in the minus with the money. That's the problem with that 1/3 rule: Hit points need to be thirdled (word?), too, or there are much to many left, when the spells are out. :rolleyes: |
| Begferdeth10-27-05, 07:18 PM | Kermandec vs Ielenia (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7611079) is up! If there is still a pitlord shortage, I could probably take a second fight this week. Depending on how many changes I have to make to this one :P |
| NiQil10-27-05, 07:23 PM | Kermandec vs Ielenia (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7611079) is up! If there is still a pitlord shortage, I could probably take a second fight this week. Depending on how many changes I have to make to this one :P There's a rather large problem with the fight...and it occurs in round 1. Both tapping a tattoo and drinking a potion are standard actions. Therefore Kermadec can't do both in round 1. This will cause the entire fight to need adjusting. |
| The Undershadow10-27-05, 07:48 PM | @Dr. Funk Tactic's Received |
| King Uther10-27-05, 07:53 PM | Monk's invented champagne. Check your French history. All tactics sent. Fights are about to be started. |
| Snommelp10-27-05, 07:56 PM | Kermandec vs Ielenia (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7611079) is up! If there is still a pitlord shortage, I could probably take a second fight this week. Depending on how many changes I have to make to this one :P Apart from NiQil's noted error, I don't like this:Ielenia realizes that going from cover to cover will take too long.Yes, it will take a long time, but dashing out from cover like that let Kermadec get in how many extra shots? Ielenia is not Grik; Grik doesn't care about how often he gets hit, but Ielenia is a more defensive build. I'd appreciate it if her tactics were followed. At the very least, improvise within the spirit of the build. |
| One_Winged_Angel10-27-05, 07:58 PM | Monk's invented champagne. Check your French history. All tactics sent. Fights are about to be started. Actually, no one is quite sure who did invent champagne. Dom Perignon just perfected it. Some expect it was created by accident, however (like most other inventions, actually...). It may not have even originated from Champagne, the province in France. It's more likely to have come from Britain. C'mon. I'm an American. I'm supposed to know nothing about other cultures :P |
| King Uther10-27-05, 08:01 PM | I'm an American also. I learned that supposedly it was invented by French monks, but not in the Champagne province. That is one of the few facts I remember from French. |
| One_Winged_Angel10-27-05, 08:43 PM | I'm an American also. I learned that supposedly it was invented by French monks, but not in the Champagne province. That is one of the few facts I remember from French. I actually took Spanish. But my friend enjoys learning foreign...everything... We had a discussion on alchoholic beverages. I remember looking it up and finding that the popular myth is that champagne was invented by the French (likely because they invented almost everything else relating to wine...), but that the origins were more likely in Britain. |
| Begferdeth10-27-05, 09:07 PM | I was trying to improvise there... If you kept moving from cover to cover, you would have just been shot as many times as before, and never got anywhere near close. The only other thing to go on would be a ranged fight. And tapping is a standard action? Geez... Its touching... yourself... I didnt think it would be more than a move action. Oops. Well, I guess this is a complete do-over. Apart from NiQil's noted error, I don't like this:Yes, it will take a long time, but dashing out from cover like that let Kermadec get in how many extra shots? Ielenia is not Grik; Grik doesn't care about how often he gets hit, but Ielenia is a more defensive build. I'd appreciate it if her tactics were followed. At the very least, improvise within the spirit of the build. |
| NiQil10-27-05, 09:12 PM | I was trying to improvise there... If you kept moving from cover to cover, you would have just been shot as many times as before, and never got anywhere near close. The only other thing to go on would be a ranged fight. And tapping is a standard action? Geez... Its touching... yourself... I didnt think it would be more than a move action. Oops. Well, I guess this is a complete do-over. Not a complete do-over....all the rolls still get used the same...it just changes a lot of the movement around. But the attacks will still occur the same. Really what it boils down to is whether the extra time at the end of the fight is enough for Ielenia to drop me or not before I take her down. |
| Snommelp10-27-05, 10:01 PM | I was trying to improvise there... If you kept moving from cover to cover, you would have just been shot as many times as before, and never got anywhere near close. The only other thing to go on would be a ranged fight. If that's your reasoning, fine, although round 4 seems too early to me to give up on a tactic that hasn't proven impossible yet (especially since there's a fair amount of cover on the map for Ielenia's 60 foot double-move). As for how you improvised, I would have prefered staying in cover and shooting, but that's said with the knowledge of what's happened, and also considering that nowhere in my tactics did I mention her bow at all. Also, apologies for mistakes on my part. I forgot that protection spells are deflection bonuses when I bought the ring, and as for spot/listen, I just plain forgot. |
| SoulLord10-27-05, 10:14 PM | quick question if for example a summoned spider entangles in his web someone but the following round the spider dissapears does the web remain or not??? |
| King Uther10-27-05, 10:29 PM | Kalarthus vs Delaria is up (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7611781&postcount=558) complicated fight. Check for any errors. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-27-05, 10:43 PM | quick question if for example a summoned spider entangles in his web someone but the following round the spider dissapears does the web remain or not??? The web stays. -ToK |
| TelinArtho10-27-05, 11:02 PM | @King Uther regarding Delaria versus Kelarthus: In round 2 - Burnt's bonus to hit is +6 because of bless. With regard to your rolled crit in round 9 and then adjusting because it doesn't seem in the spirit of his tactics, I can only point this out: Cut the above commands off if it looks like combat is looming. In that case, draw my longbow, and just shoot her as many times as possible. Sounds to me like he was planning on taking a stand rather than moving away. Also, I realize I hadn't specifically mentioned using a ranged weapon - but if I am unable to close with him (and it doesn't look like I have much choice), don't you think I should at least pop out a few crossbow bolts his way? Its not like Delaria doesn't know that she can't reach him (and by the way - she can't run at x4 because of her full plate), and she is an intelligent girl. |
| Poe The Great10-27-05, 11:04 PM | @Snommelp: tactics for wolfcaller sent. |
| SoulLord10-27-05, 11:12 PM | Auburn (Vathelokai) Power: 1513 vs Devolved Sleestak (Enterik) Power: 1121 is Up fight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7613141&postcount=559) |
| Iced10-28-05, 01:00 AM | Va'ria vs 3 howlers is up. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7613734&postcount=560) This was soooo unfair... ~Iced |
| Sindorin10-28-05, 01:52 AM | Va'ria vs 3 howlers is up. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7613734&postcount=560) This was soooo unfair... ~Iced You were correct when you had the crit with the Scorching Ray. A ray attack can score a critical hit with a natural 20 and has a x2 multiplier. We know this because it is possible to deliver the CdG with a ray attack at point blank range. The only thing I am uncertain about is whether the howlers would have received falling damage when they jumped at Va'ria - if anything this might save a charge or two, but don't worry about that at all, thank you for the fight! Have fun with the story, I'm pretty sure you know how whimsical and insane Va'ria can get, especially if she has three howlers to beat up on while they can't really get her. |
| King Uther10-28-05, 01:52 AM | Well, I advocate not running characters like morons, so I believe it's fair for you to revert to crossbow at a certain point. Especially after all of the summons leave. So, to sum it up, due to movement you would have the opportunity to attack him 4 times, 1 of which is a critical. The other three are yet to be determined. I'll put the rolls here, and edit them in later. Attacks: Crit, 18; 5; 6 (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=175402) Total Damage: 17 (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=175402) Of course.....now this causes some issues. Nothing that I can't fix, but he'll have to spend an action healing or have a contest of bleeding to see who wins. He has been knocked to 0hp right before shooting you down. |
| Sindorin10-28-05, 02:40 AM | One thing though that I am not really sure about - Since Va'ria won an ECL6 fight in the arena, doesn't she receive winnings for this? I understand if she doesn't due to their treasure value being none, but I just want to make sure. |
| Snommelp10-28-05, 04:01 AM | @ Poe: tactics received. |
| sloisel10-28-05, 05:05 AM | Well it's true. A regular bat does not have an attack rating. Another screwed up house rule? My SRD tells you what a familiar's attack bonus is, and that your familiar can deliver touch spells. Sébastien Loisel |
| Pauper10-28-05, 05:20 AM | Well it's true. A regular bat does not have an attack rating. I'm sorry to hear that this happened to you as well - but the argument doesn't fly. The bat doesn't have an entry in its attack line, that's true enough; what the bat is lacking is a natural weapon, which isn't required to deliver a touch spell. And what's listed in the bat's writeup in the MM doesn't matter anyway, because a familiar isn't a 'regular bat' - the bat's type changes to 'magical beast' on becoming a familiar and it gains an 'attack rating' equal to the master's BAB plus the familiar's Strength or Dexterity modifier, whichever is higher. Look under 'Familiars:Familiar Basics:Attacks', either in the SRD or on p.52 of the PH v3.5. The bat still wouldn't deal any damage with this attack, as becoming a familiar doesn't grant it a natural weapon. But there's no reason why a familiar couldn't use this 'attack rating' to deliver touch spells. Now I can understand if an Elder decided that a bat, with its Blindsense ability, is 'too good' a familiar to be able to deliver touch spells and that the ruling was made to curb 'bat abuse'. In that case, though, it'd be nice if there was something in the CoCo rules that pointed this out. I'd like to ask Snommelp to hold off on running this fight until I get a clarification on whether or not the existing CoCo ruling regarding bats and touch spells will be enforced or overturned. -- Pauper |
| Caterane10-28-05, 05:38 AM | One thing though that I am not really sure about - Since Va'ria won an ECL6 fight in the arena, doesn't she receive winnings for this? I understand if she doesn't due to their treasure value being none, but I just want to make sure. The treasure entry only governs the equipment of the monsters. The rewards have nothing to do with that. Varia - as an ECL 6 character - defeated 3 CR 3 Monsters which earns her 2700 gold, and 1800 xp. Iced, if you read that, please add it to the fight. We don't want to see Steve's PC in the prison :) |
| Myrridin10-28-05, 09:31 AM | So I got lucky, as I forgot to mention in my tactics that if Delaria summons something, drink a potion of Protection from Law; to prevent the summons from being able to touch me. I'll take the win though. |
| Myrridin10-28-05, 09:38 AM | Part of the reason for having Expeditious Retreat up is that I have superior movement, and to use it in the fight. Otherwise there's no reason to have enough movement to continually stay away from Delaria. |
| TelinArtho10-28-05, 09:49 AM | Well, I advocate not running characters like morons, so I believe it's fair for you to revert to crossbow at a certain point. Especially after all of the summons leave. So, to sum it up, due to movement you would have the opportunity to attack him 4 times, 1 of which is a critical. The other three are yet to be determined. I'll put the rolls here, and edit them in later. Attacks: Crit, 18; 5; 6 (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=175402) Total Damage: 17 (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=175402) Of course.....now this causes some issues. Nothing that I can't fix, but he'll have to spend an action healing or have a contest of bleeding to see who wins. He has been knocked to 0hp right before shooting you down. Well, the damage from Burnt's attack would have made the difference there (1d4+1d4 fire). From my earlier post: In round 2 - Burnt's bonus to hit is +6 because of bless. |
| Myrridin10-28-05, 10:12 AM | Ahhh, so the debate of "I believe in not running characters like morons" versus, "It wasn't in your tactics". I did mention drinking the potion of Protection from Law. One could argue that Kalarthus is smart enough to drink that, when he sees all the summons, and then he doesn't take the scorpion damage, thus not bleeding out. |
| Sindorin10-28-05, 10:23 AM | The treasure entry only governs the equipment of the monsters. The rewards have nothing to do with that. Varia - as an ECL 6 character - defeated 3 CR 3 Monsters which earns her 2700 gold, and 1800 xp. Iced, if you read that, please add it to the fight. We don't want to see Steve's PC in the prison :) Stimmt das, I have yet to actually BE in prison wahahahaha! |
| TelinArtho10-28-05, 10:26 AM | - x3 2 2 1 1 0 y 0 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 2 w w w w w w w w O O O O O O O O O O O O K0O O O O @ O O O O 1 w w w w w w w O O O O O O O O O O O O C0k0e0O O O @ @ O O O 20 w w w w w w O O O O O O O O O O O O O c0O O O O O O O O O O 9 w w w w w O O O O O O O O O @ @ @ O O O O O O O O O O O O O 8 w w w w w O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O 7 w w w w O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O 6 w w w w O O O O O O O @ O O O @ O O O @ O O O O O O O O O O 15 w w w O O O O O O O O @ O O @ @ @ O O @ O O O O O O O O O O 4 w w w O O O O O O O O @ O O O @ O O O @ O O O O O O O § O O 3 w w O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O k9O O O O O O O O O O O 2 w w O O O § O O O O O O O O O O O O C9c9O O O O O O O O O O 1 w w O O O O O O O O O O O O @ @ @ O O O O O e9O O O O O O O 10 w O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O 9 w O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O 8 w O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O 7 w O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O 6 O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O @ @ K9O O O 05 O O O O O O O O @ @ O O O O O O O O O O O O O O @ @ O O O O - + Kalarthus 23/24 AC 14 (-12, 13) Delaria 11/19 AC 20 (-4, 6) Bless [Round 31] Burnt DEAD AC 15 (-1, 15) Centipede 4/4 (-11, 12) Centipede 4/4 (-12, 12) Centipede 4/4 (-8, 10) Round 10: Kalathus needs to win this fast, as the number of foes keeps growing. He takes the attacks, (1 hit, 1 damage Fort: Success it's in the links) to get a shot at Delaria. (Attack: 2+7=9 also in the links, this happened 2 rounds ago when I forgot a tactic) Delaria runs(x4), basing Kalarthus. All centipedes do the same. Kalarthus is somewhat surrounded. Kalarthus 22/24 AC 14 (-10, 21) Delaria 11/19 AC 20 (-10, 20) Bless [Round 31] Burnt DEAD AC 15 (-1, 15) Centipede 4/4 (-11, 21) Centipede 4/4 (-11, 20) Centipede 4/4 (-9, 21) This round has some errors. First of all - Delaria has no chance to get from -4,6 to -10,21 - in addition she can only x3 run in heavy armor. Why didn't the third centipede charge? (e9 to e0 is its current movement) Also, given the movement locations, c9 --> c0 - if it had moved from 11,12 to 10,20 - it could move and attack rather than double move. Likewise, C9 --> C0 is a double move, but if it moves from -12.12 to -11,20 - it moves and attacks. I guess what I'm asking is - instead of having three attacks in this round - I get none. Why? |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-28-05, 10:34 AM | Another screwed up house rule? My SRD tells you what a familiar's attack bonus is, and that your familiar can deliver touch spells. Sébastien Loisel Not a screwed up house rule. A real rule, according to MM, PHB, and DMG. If a bat would be able to make attacks it would have an attack rating listed. This is not a new thing, nor is it unique to the bat. If you could attack in any way shape or form it would have +x, melee dmg: 1d2-2 (just as an example). Like i said...look up what's required to make attacks. Bat can't, because it can't. As for your SRD telling you a familiar's attack bonus...EVERYTHING has a bab, and for the most part you are correct...familiars can deliver touch spells....but that's assuming they even can to begin with...the bat cannot. -ToK |
| TelinArtho10-28-05, 10:39 AM | Ahhh, so the debate of "I believe in not running characters like morons" versus, "It wasn't in your tactics". I did mention drinking the potion of Protection from Law. One could argue that Kalarthus is smart enough to drink that, when he sees all the summons, and then he doesn't take the scorpion damage, thus not bleeding out. Yes you did mention it - though the centipedes would have each a chance to break through because of their spell resistance (SR6 vs CL check of 1d20+1). |
| Myrridin10-28-05, 10:44 AM | I'm just saying. *shrug* I don't care, if the won fight means that much to you Tellin, you can have it, and I'll take the loss. That said, I believe that I will move over to questing/campaigning, when I can. As there are less back and forths, "Well this *should've* happened!" in them. The complaining is one of the major reasons I left last time. Not to mention, I know I only mentioned the scroll of mage armor once, but you could make an argument that I wanted to have that active, increasing my AC by 4 more. This is all rather back and forth, don't you think? |
| Pittbull10-28-05, 10:44 AM | About bat familiars and attacks: Attacks Use the master’s base attack bonus, as calculated from all his classes. Use the familiar’s Dexterity or Strength modifier, whichever is greater, to get the familiar’s melee attack bonus with natural weapons. Damage equals that of a normal creature of the familiar’s kind. Since they use thier masters base attack, they have an attack, but no damage. |
| TelinArtho10-28-05, 10:52 AM | @Myrridin - actually, I'm mostly in agreement with you. I do try to make arguments for changes when it is an error in one of two places: 1. If there is a missing bonus, misapplied penalty, etc - in other words - just a calculation mistake. This would also apply if an error in the rules took place. Note my original post - Burnt should have hit on his first attack because his bonus was +6 not +5 when charging with bless up. Clear concise - no need for argument - just a missing bonus. 2. If there is a blatant misreading of tactics. This, in my opinion, would apply to your tactics. However, since this is much gray area - I'm very tentative to make arguments in this area. I make them for myself when it is something I can specifically point out (with exact wording). My argument above "I read it as such" was in bad form - and for that I regret it. At the same time however, having a character run after a character who is twice as fast - is just dumb. So at some point improvisations must be made. What I'm trying to say is there must be a point where futility is either resolved (by switching to a tactic not listed) or accepted (by giving up because no other option exists). |
| Snommelp10-28-05, 10:55 AM | I'd like to ask Snommelp to hold off on running this fight until I get a clarification on whether or not the existing CoCo ruling regarding bats and touch spells will be enforced or overturned.Don't worry, I won't run it until this is settled. I like rerunning fights about as much as people enjoy seeing their tactics thrown out on round one because the pitlord wants to try something "fun." |
| TheMagister10-28-05, 10:55 AM | I've just gotta chime in on the bat familiar thing. I think it's stupid to suggest that a corporeal, intelligent animal couldn't bump into another corporeal being. Whenever the caster designates the bat as the toucher, the bat GAINS an attack. It gains a shocking grasp, and it uses its BAB + its str/dex to deliver the touch. It's a TOUCH attack, for cryin' out loud. Humans have no natural weapons, and yet we have a BAB, and WE can deliver touch spells because the nature of the spell is such that it ARMS us. In effect, it replaces a non-damaging attack with a damaging one. The bat is really no different, IMO. p.s. - the CAPS above are for emphasis only...I'm not shouting. TM |
| Mind Rogue10-28-05, 10:56 AM | @ TaggIIV I still need your tactics for Nyphanalith |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-28-05, 10:57 AM | About bat familiars and attacks: Since they use thier masters base attack, they have an attack, but no damage. No, that is incorrect. The bat does have a Bab listed in it's MM entry, so that isn't an indication. All creatures need a Bab. If you imbue it with spell ability, it will need it. It can't make attacks, plain and simple. -ToK |
| Myrridin10-28-05, 11:00 AM | @Myrridin - actually, I'm mostly in agreement with you. I do try to make arguments for changes when it is an error in one of two places: 1. If there is a missing bonus, misapplied penalty, etc - in other words - just a calculation mistake. This would also apply if an error in the rules took place. Note my original post - Burnt should have hit on his first attack because his bonus was +6 not +5 when charging with bless up. Clear concise - no need for argument - just a missing bonus. I agree with you. If the bonus was just miscalculated, then that should be changed. No problem with that. 2. If there is a blatant misreading of tactics. This, in my opinion, would apply to your tactics. However, since this is much gray area - I'm very tentative to make arguments in this area. I make them for myself when it is something I can specifically point out (with exact wording). My argument above "I read it as such" was in bad form - and for that I regret it. At the same time however, having a character run after a character who is twice as fast - is just dumb. So at some point improvisations must be made. What I'm trying to say is there must be a point where futility is either resolved (by switching to a tactic not listed) or accepted (by giving up because no other option exists). I think we can both argue that we would've liked our characters to have done other stuff. Sure, I had written in to read the mage armor scroll, and down the Prot from Law potion. I probably wasn't clear enough on what conditions these should take. In the future, I'll be more clear on this. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-28-05, 11:03 AM | I've just gotta chime in on the bat familiar thing. I think it's stupid to suggest that a corporeal, intelligent animal couldn't bump into another corporeal being. Whenever the caster designates the bat as the toucher, the bat GAINS an attack. It gains a shocking grasp, and it uses its BAB + its str/dex to deliver the touch. It's a TOUCH attack, for cryin' out loud. Humans have no natural weapons, and yet we have a BAB, and WE can deliver touch spells because the nature of the spell is such that it ARMS us. In effect, it replaces a non-damaging attack with a damaging one. The bat is really no different, IMO. p.s. - the CAPS above are for emphasis only...I'm not shouting. TM But it doesn't even have a NON-DAMAGING attack. It has NO attack. There is a big difference. You can't use Humans as a reference either, because we do have unamred strikes....we just aren't proficient with them and they deal 1d3+str....clearly defined. Bat, no attack value = no attack. -ToK |
| TelinArtho10-28-05, 11:10 AM | There is just one point I want to bring up on this whole Bat thing. With regard to executing touch spells: Deliver Touch Spells (Su): If the master is 3rd level or higher, a familiar can deliver touch spells for him. If the master and the familiar are in contact at the time the master casts a touch spell, he can designate his familiar as the “toucher.” The familiar can then deliver the touch spell just as the master could. As usual, if the master casts another spell before the touch is delivered, the touch spell dissipates. I don't see anywhere in here where it says the familiar uses its own natural attacks - just that the familiar would deliver them just as the master could. In fact, all that needs to happen in order to discharge the spell is physical contact (hence the reason it ignores armor and shield bonuses). [Tongue in cheek]If my bat isn't able to deliver touch spells, then he physically cannot touch anything - sounds to me like he must be incorporeal then![/Tongue in cheek] In all seriousness though, this is less of a problem for the bat familiar (who is useful in other ways) and a much bigger problem for the toad (who would also fall under this rule apparently). |
| NiQil10-28-05, 11:18 AM | But it doesn't even have a NON-DAMAGING attack. It has NO attack. There is a big difference. You can't use Humans as a reference either, because we do have unamred strikes....we just aren't proficient with them and they deal 1d3+str....clearly defined. Bat, no attack value = no attack. -ToK I gotta disagree with you here, ToK. While a bat (the animal) may not be able to attack, a bat (the familiar) most certainly can, because it is no longer an animal, but rather a magical beast. It receives this ability when it becomes a familiar, as do all familiars. All familiars can deliver touch spells. This is RAW. No interpretation is required. That is why the entry for familiars state that the animals are the same as normal animals of their type, except where changed by familiar additions. To wit: Familiar Basics: Use the basic statistics for a creature of the familiar’s kind, but make the following changes: Hit Dice: For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice, use the master’s character level or the familiar’s normal HD total, whichever is higher. Hit Points: The familiar has one-half the master’s total hit points (not including temporary hit points), rounded down, regardless of its actual Hit Dice. Attacks: Use the master’s base attack bonus, as calculated from all his classes. Use the familiar’s Dexterity or Strength modifier, whichever is greater, to get the familiar’s melee attack bonus with natural weapons. Damage equals that of a normal creature of the familiar’s kind. Saving Throws: For each saving throw, use either the familiar’s base save bonus (Fortitude +2, Reflex +2, Will +0) or the master’s (as calculated from all his classes), whichever is better. The familiar uses its own ability modifiers to saves, and it doesn’t share any of the other bonuses that the master might have on saves. Skills: For each skill in which either the master or the familiar has ranks, use either the normal skill ranks for an animal of that type or the master’s skill ranks, whichever are better. In either case, the familiar uses its own ability modifiers. Regardless of a familiar’s total skill modifiers, some skills may remain beyond the familiar’s ability to use. All familiars can make attacks, and all familiars can deliver touch spells. |
| Ribking10-28-05, 11:19 AM | @Snommelp: tactics for Greefe sent. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-28-05, 11:19 AM | I don't see anywhere in here where it says the familiar uses its own natural attacks - just that the familiar would deliver them just as the master could. So it grows an arm that looks like it's masters? It doesn't have to say it uses the familiar's natural attacks, how on earth would it deliver it otherwise? -ToK **EDIT @NiQil: I think your quote provides more substance to my argument than yours. You bolded part really indicateds that. Bat's and Toads do not have natural weapons to even perform these attacks with. And like i said, giving them their masters Bab isn't any proof, because they already have a bab. If you cast alter self, and share it with your familiar, it NEEDS that. All critters do. If you wanna deliver touch-based spells with your Toad or Bat, cast Alter Self or Poly etc... -ToK |
| TheMagister10-28-05, 11:20 AM | But it doesn't even have a NON-DAMAGING attack. It has NO attack. There is a big difference. You can't use Humans as a reference either, because we do have unamred strikes....we just aren't proficient with them and they deal 1d3+str....clearly defined. Bat, no attack value = no attack. -ToK I'm sorry, ToK, but I just can't get behind that. All it has to do is touch you. At WORST, you give it the non-proficiency penalty of -4 on touch attacks because it's not proficient with any natural weapon. It can still physically make contact with another being. Heck, it can make contact with its master all the time. If its target starts dodging, all of a sudden its imPOSSIBLE for the bat to physically make contact with the target? Its preposterous. TM |
| Pittbull10-28-05, 11:24 AM | ToK: "A familiar with no attack, cannot dilver touch-attacks!" - Is absolutely wrong. Do you want to say, that only familiars with attack-boni are allowed to? To give you another example: No psi-crystal has an attack-bonus, but all can act as the toucher. So why shouldn't that work for the familiars too? |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-28-05, 11:24 AM | I'm sorry, ToK, but I just can't get behind that. All it has to do is touch you. At WORST, you give it the non-proficiency penalty of -4 on touch attacks because it's not proficient with any natural weapon. It can still physically make contact with another being. Heck, it can make contact with its master all the time. If its target starts dodging, all of a sudden its imPOSSIBLE for the bat to physically make contact with the target? Its preposterous. TM Wait a second though TM. I know what you are trying to say...but the problem with your logic is, is that a BODY is not a natural weapon. It needs a natural weapon to deliver the touch based attack. It can make contact, but it doesn't have a natural weapon that would qualify for delivering touch-based spells. Alter self first. -ToK |
| NiQil10-28-05, 11:24 AM | So it grows an arm that looks like it's masters? It doesn't have to say it uses the familiar's natural attacks, how on earth would it deliver it otherwise? -ToK **EDIT @NiQil: I think your quote provides more substance to my argument than yours. You bolded part really indicateds that. Bat's and Toads do not have natural weapons to even perform these attacks with. And like i said, giving them their masters Bab isn't any proof, because they already have a bab. If you cast alter self, and share it with your familiar, it NEEDS that. All critters do. If you wanna deliver touch-based spells with your Toad or Bat, cast Alter Self or Poly etc... -ToK Answer me this then.....if bats and toads can't deliver touch-based attacks, like the RAW says they can......then why are they on the familiar list to begin with, since all familiars are given this ability? |
| NiQil10-28-05, 11:25 AM | Wait a second though TM. I know what you are trying to say...but the problem with your logic is, is that a BODY is not a natural weapon. It needs a natural weapon to deliver the touch based attack. It can make contact, but it doesn't have a natural weapon that would qualify for delivering touch-based spells. Alter self first. -ToK Can you please show RAW that says you need a natural weapon to deliver a touch based spell? |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-28-05, 11:26 AM | ToK: "A familiar with no attack, cannot dilver touch-attacks!" - Is absolutely wrong. Do you want to say, that only familiars with attack-boni are allowed to? To give you another example: No psi-crystal has an attack-bonus, but all can act as the toucher. So why shouldn't that work for the familiars too? Psionics handbook is so full of holes and brokeness, and isn't a reliable source of core rules information. Just look at the various sonic spells that even at 2nd level is more powerful than a 9th level spell in the PHB. -ToK |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-28-05, 11:26 AM | Answer me this then.....if bats and toads can't deliver touch-based attacks, like the RAW says they can......then why are they on the familiar list to begin with, since all familiars are given this ability? Alter Self |
| NiQil10-28-05, 11:27 AM | Psionics handbook is so full of holes and brokeness, and isn't a reliable source of core rules information. Just look at the various sonic spells that even at 2nd level is more powerful than a 9th level spell in the PHB. -ToK Uh...ToK.....if it's not....then why is psionics allowed here? If we allow psionics, then the XPH is a valid sourcebook for rules. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-28-05, 11:29 AM | Uh...ToK.....if it's not....then why is psionics allowed here? If we allow psionics, then the XPH is a valid sourcebook for rules. I've always disagreed with allowing psionics in CoCo. But i was outvoted because of people's love for brokeness. And no, it's not a valid sourcebook for rules...it's full of garbage. -ToK |
| NiQil10-28-05, 11:29 AM | Alter Self So familiars are only on the list so you can alter them? Your logic is flawed, here, ToK. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-28-05, 11:30 AM | So familiars are only on the list so you can alter them? Your logic is flawed, here, ToK. You are putting words in my mouth. I didn't say that. I said if you want your toad or bat to deliver touch based spells, you need to give them a natural weapon. And the one way that came to mind was alter self. |
| NiQil10-28-05, 11:30 AM | I've always disagreed with allowing psionics in CoCo. But i was outvoted because of people's love for brokeness. And no, it's not a valid sourcebook for rules...it's full of garbage. -ToK Regardless of your personal feelings, psionics are allowed here, and therefore the XPH is a valid rules sourcebook here. |
| NiQil10-28-05, 11:31 AM | You are putting words in my mouth. I didn't say that. I said if you want your toad or bat to deliver touch based spells, you need to give them a natural weapon. And the one way that came to mind was alter self. And again, I ask...where does it say that you have to have a natural weapon to deliver touch spells? |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-28-05, 11:36 AM | And again, I ask...where does it say that you have to have a natural weapon to deliver touch spells? Ok, back to you. Where does it say, you don't? Are you implying, that by casting chill touch and i just LOOK at you and you get affected? Or, better yet, i'll shoot you with my bow, or attack you with my sword? No..those are manufactured weapons. And all the touch based spells refer to making a melee touch attack to deliver them and with references to "your hand". A hand is a natural weapon. -ToK |
| NiQil10-28-05, 11:46 AM | Ok, back to you. Where does it say, you don't? Are you implying, that by casting chill touch and i just LOOK at you and you get affected? Or, better yet, i'll shoot you with my bow, or attack you with my sword? No..those are manufactured weapons. And all the touch based spells refer to making a melee touch attack to deliver them and with references to "your hand". A hand is a natural weapon. -ToK It does say that all familiars can deliver touch spells. Deliver Touch Spells (Su): If the master is 3rd level or higher, a familiar can deliver touch spells for him. If the master and the familiar are in contact at the time the master casts a touch spell, he can designate his familiar as the “toucher.” The familiar can then deliver the touch spell just as the master could. As usual, if the master casts another spell before the touch is delivered, the touch spell dissipates. Nowhere in this entry does it say that a natural attack is required. Also, natural weapon, as defined in the PHB, does not include hands, to my knowledge. But wizards can still deliver touch spells. I would say that is a pretty strong argument that you do NOT need natural attack to deliver touch spells. |
| Sindorin10-28-05, 11:52 AM | Wow kids, it's not even Saturday, Tactics aren't even overdue, and there are already 200+ replies on the weekly concerns thread! Crazy! |
| Pittbull10-28-05, 11:53 AM | @Pittbull You want to fight Virgo next week? I'll fix his error and put him as active if you want to fight a gladiator. I know we fought a while ago, but that was when you were EL7. Yeah, would be cool, if you get him fixed. Otherwise Barthleby will be my fighting gladiator, but Hagrid is first choice! |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-28-05, 12:01 PM | It does say that all familiars can deliver touch spells. Nowhere in this entry does it say that a natural attack is required. Also, natural weapon, as defined in the PHB, does not include hands, to my knowledge. But wizards can still deliver touch spells. I would say that is a pretty strong argument that you do NOT need natural attack to deliver touch spells. Well, use it then. I guess i'm the only one now in favour for it. But when i went to use use touch-based spells with my bat, let me tell you, the elders were all up in arms and banned it...but now those voices aren't here (or silent). So it seems like rules come and go to suit players. -ToK |
| SoulLord10-28-05, 12:03 PM | I think the discussion is a moot point the elders have already ruled that it doesn't work. so it would take an elder vote to bring it back. so for the time being toads and bats dont have natural touch attacks. |
| TelinArtho10-28-05, 12:04 PM | Just an update on tactics I'm still missing: Lortavos (Gonbow) Mrs. Buttmunch (sloisel) Griff Mythral (Iced) |
| TheMagister10-28-05, 12:10 PM | @Iced Can you get that Djinni's eq list posted soon? I'd like to write tactics for the fight, but I can't without knowing what he's gonna be capable of... TM |
| Iced10-28-05, 12:42 PM | @ TM - Equip pm'd |
| Iced10-28-05, 12:48 PM | The treasure entry only governs the equipment of the monsters. The rewards have nothing to do with that. Varia - as an ECL 6 character - defeated 3 CR 3 Monsters which earns her 2700 gold, and 1800 xp. Iced, if you read that, please add it to the fight. We don't want to see Steve's PC in the prison :) I'm on it...;) |
| TheMagister10-28-05, 01:10 PM | @ TM - Equip pm'd Thanks, dude. Hey... A potion of fly give the imbiber a 60 ft. fly speed. Would being a barbarian increase that by +10 ft.? TM |
| Cerebus1310-28-05, 01:11 PM | Thanks, dude. Hey... A potion of fly give the imbiber a 60 ft. fly speed. Would being a barbarian increase that by +10 ft.? TMNope, the barbarian speed increase is land speed only. |
| TelinArtho10-28-05, 01:14 PM | HG Milstead vs Yari (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7616746) is up. Enjoy. |
| Mal-210-28-05, 01:16 PM | I'd like to echo NiQil's query about psicrystals delivering touch attacks. If there are familiars that cannot deliver touch attacks because they have an attacks entry of '--', what does that mean for psicrystals? Psicrystals also have an attack entry of '--' (no matter what type of crystal they are). Can they deliver touch attacks? |
| TheMagister10-28-05, 01:16 PM | Nope, the barbarian speed increase is land speed only. Thanks. Now, can a character damage a djinni in whirlwind form with physical attacks? TM |
| TelinArtho10-28-05, 01:19 PM | Yes - just because he's air - doesn't mean he can't be cut! |
| SoulLord10-28-05, 01:21 PM | Well the entry doesn't say anything about him being inmune to physical attacks while in whirlwind form so I would allow it. |
| waywreth10-28-05, 01:22 PM | Thanks. Now, can a character damage a djinni in whirlwind form with physical attacks? TM I don't see why not. Of course if you touch it you're likely to get sucked into the whirlwind. |
| Macbrea10-28-05, 01:29 PM | Bah, should have run directly at the mage.. darn, didn't figure I would spot them from my start point. |
| TelinArtho10-28-05, 01:32 PM | You didn't spot him - but you knew where he started. With a +8 listen vs a DC0+distance modifier - you are pretty likely to note someone in the the left and right starting areas - and have a small chance of noting someone in the opposite one. For future fights - if it is a caster who is going to want to stay away from you - I would definitely try to close. The range on shatter is only 30ft - but if you had sneaked up - you might have been able to get it off - and then HG would have been in a bad way. I would also sincerly suggest switching out those clubs for javelins - that 10ft range increment on clubs makes them useless as ranged weapons even with your +6 dex modifier. |
| TheMagister10-28-05, 01:37 PM | I don't see why not. Of course if you touch it you're likely to get sucked into the whirlwind. I don't care about THAT. Sdentch does so much damage with her boom stick, and the Djinni's AC is so low, that I'll take the -3 net loss to hit from inside the cyclone and kill him from in there. Djinni's AC in whirlwind form: 14. Sdentch's normal AB with +1 large club while raged: +11 - 1 (air mastery) - 2 (penalty for being in the whirlwind) = +8. 6 or better. I'll take them odds. @Iced Since you're the only one that matters in this case, what you do say? Can a Djinni be hit physically while in whirlwind form? TM |
| Pauper10-28-05, 01:45 PM | Wow, lots of good arguments regarding the bat familiar issue, plus a couple I didn't even think of (the psicrystal equivalence in particular). That said, it seems that the only argument in favor of the ruling is ToK's insistence that he got screwed, so everybody else does, too. It's unfortunate, but if that's the way the CoCo is run, then it doesn't make sense to be a part of it. The only other thing I'll add to the argument is to debunk the 'you need a natural weapon to deliver the touch spell' talking point - because a creature with an active touch spell held has a weapon: the touch spell. All touch spells are 'weaponlike spells', and all creatures holding touch spells are considered armed, which is why Alac has never taken an AoO for delivering a chill touch despite not having Improved Unarmed Strike as a feat. Feel free to continue to follow the rule or not, but I'm not going to be accused of lobbying to change a rule out of self-interest. Good gaming, folks. -- Pauper |
| Mind Rogue10-28-05, 01:47 PM | Now who says that the Bat familiar doesn't have an unarmed strike. Every creature has one of those. It's just that for a bat, it deals only 1 point of damage (or is it reduced to such a point that even that doesn't hurt?) The bat could still deliver the touch attack with the unarmed strike just like a wizard or cleric would. He'd probably elect to just bother touching them instead of hurting them with the unarmed strike too. Just because there aren't any weapons listed doesn't mean the bat doesn't have them. |
| TheMagister10-28-05, 02:03 PM | Feel free to continue to follow the rule or not, but I'm not going to be accused of lobbying to change a rule out of self-interest. --Pauper Right. I don't even have a caster on the boards. I'm just putting forth my interpretation of the RAW. TM |
| waywreth10-28-05, 02:03 PM | Per what the Monster Manual says - bats don't do enough damage to actually cause HP loss (however a swarm of bats does...). Personally I think it should be that psi-crystals and all familiars are allowed to deliver touch attacks, but per ToK that wouldn't be fair to change the rule. What I propose is that we note this rule in the FAQ and allow anyone with a creature that falls in this cateory the one-time opportunity to change their familiar. |
| NiQil10-28-05, 02:07 PM | Per what the Monster Manual says - bats don't do enough damage to actually cause HP loss (however a swarm of bats does...). Personally I think it should be that psi-crystals and all familiars are allowed to deliver touch attacks, but per ToK that wouldn't be fair to change the rule. What I propose is that we note this rule in the FAQ and allow anyone with a creature that falls in this cateory the one-time opportunity to change their familiar. Actually, what would be more fair would be to overturn the rule as an incorrect interpretation of the rules. Just because it was made a rule, doesn't mean we can't correct ourselves. Heck...technically, since this rule is not listed in the houserules, some would consider that justification to go by the RAW and allow it. |
| SoulLord10-28-05, 02:09 PM | If you do change the rule and allow a bat to deliver touch spells does it make the bat better than all other familiars? If Yes then it probably shouldn't be changed if NO then the issue could be brought before the elders for their reconsideration. anyway it shouldn't affect the outcome of this week fights. |
| SauroGrenom10-28-05, 02:15 PM | Tellish, I must come down on the side of NiQil, sloisel, TelinArtho and TheMagister. I know that you're the only elder in this discussion, but the raw funkieness of this CoCo house rule makes me twitch. None of the others who have posted about this issue have refrenced the relevant SRD passage, so here it is: Touch Spells in Combat: Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject, either in the same round or any time later. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) the target. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll. Touch Attacks: Touching an opponent with a touch spell is considered to be an armed attack and therefore does not provoke attacks of opportunity. However, the act of casting a spell does provoke an attack of opportunity. Touch attacks come in two types: melee touch attacks and ranged touch attacks. You can score critical hits with either type of attack. Your opponent’s AC against a touch attack does not include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. His size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) all apply normally. Holding the Charge: If you don’t discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the discharge of the spell (hold the charge) indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren’t considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. (If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack.) If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge. ATTACK ROLL An attack roll represents your attempt to strike your opponent on your turn in a round. When you make an attack roll, you roll a d20 and add your attack bonus. (Other modifiers may also apply to this roll.) If your result equals or beats the target’s Armor Class, you hit and deal damage. If you are looking for a passage that states, "familiars without a natural attack can still perform touch attacks". Then you may be dissapointed because no such statement will be found in the SRD. Just like there is no statement in the SRD that you must sleep...ever. But clearly, delivering touch attacks with a natural weapon is a special case that is mentioned. The fact that a special case is mentioned suggests that there is general case that does not use a natural attack or unarmed strike. We see in the fist section that you can deliver touch spells to yourself and friends without an attack. But to deliver a touch spell to an opponent you need to make an attack role. To make an attack all you do is role the d20 and add the appropreat bonuses and compare the result to the relevant AC of your opponent. Nowhere in that process is there a suggestion that you must be able to cause damage to attempt an attack or to even hit your opponent. Nor is there anything that says you must have a natural or manufactured weapon to attack. The bold section tells us that any touch will discharge the spell, not that an attack with a natural weapon discharges the spell. Above it tells us that touching an opponent with a touch spell is an attack, not that you must have use a natural attack to deliver a touch spell (that's a special case). I argue that if you designate your familiar as the "toucher" of you spell, then it gains a new kind of attack for the durration of the spell. The new attack is the "touch attack" of the spell. If we are going to get into the game of the SRD says "this" and not "that", then inevitably the argument will become whether Archie Longbow can "touch" you with the arrow he fired from his bow. To do such a thing is not strictly prohibited by the passages above, but neither are they allowed. The spirit of the passage clearly tells us that a touch attack is made with a part of your body and does not normally cause damage aside form the spell effect. In those special times when you can cause damage with your body, then you can deliver the touch spell at the same time as a successfull hit, but this ability to cause damage with your body is not required. SauroGrenom |
| TelinArtho10-28-05, 02:27 PM | The truth is we've hit a bit of a gray area - and Pauper's character seems to be feeling the brunt of this. So the question is how to satisfactorily come to a solution that is fair and equitable, given that a ruling was made on this issue in the past - and that said ruling is not in the rules of gladius for widespread consumption. The best method, in my opinion, is to allow the bat to deliver the touch attacks - because that is the way it is written in the SRD. Pauper and all parties involved in this issue should beseech Cat to open a topic on the matter for discussion. It appears that the bulk have agreed that it should be allowed. With two exceptions - ToK - who was here during the initial vote and SoulLord. And Soullord while on the outset it may "seem" like it makes the bat a much better familiar, it really destroys the possibility of using the toad. And for that matter the psicrystals (if you intend on using the touch attack feature). Regardless, when a familiar enters the square of the opponent, by leaving a threatened square - it will be drawing AoO anyway (unless the familiar is invisible or the opponent is unarmed anyway) - so the familiar is probably going to get hit first anyway... |
| sloisel10-28-05, 02:30 PM | So it seems like rules come and go to suit players. That's a separate problem, and I've indirectly complained about it before. There really should be (perhaps in the rules thread, or perhaps in its own sticky thread) a list of all rulings, clarifications and house-rules. As it is, the "house rules" post in the rules thread is inadequate. Perhaps even a rule-lawyering elder could be dedicated to keeping this list up-to-date (subject to the consent of the majority.) Cheers, Sébastien Loisel |
| SauroGrenom10-28-05, 02:37 PM | As it is, the "house rules" post in the rules thread is inadequate. Perhaps even a rule-lawyering elder could be dedicated to keeping this list up-to-date (subject to the consent of the majority.)l I agree. |
| SoulLord10-28-05, 02:51 PM | If None of the elders volunteer I Offer myself to keep such a thread up to date with the latest rulings. Still on the other topic I dont like it that a pitlord Jumps what has been designated as an Elder ruling. |
| Mind Rogue10-28-05, 02:57 PM | As would I. (Likewise, I support the presence of a thread or post detailing the house rules and clarifications and would support Soullord if you choose him over me). The thread or post would probably needed to be headed by an Avatar so that if someone was going to retire from CoCo, they could pass it on without having to start a new thread. Also, it should include the ruling, the reason for it, and the relevant passages to support it or a link to the elder ruling deciding why it is going to be that way. |
| TheMagister10-28-05, 03:05 PM | Tactics for Sdentch vs. the Awful Djinni sent via PM. If she wins, she wants to hold him for a ransom of one wish from his older brother. =) "Sdentch wish to be a kitty-mommy." TM |
| Macbrea10-28-05, 03:06 PM | I would also sincerly suggest switching out those clubs for javelins - that 10ft range increment on clubs makes them useless as ranged weapons even with your +6 dex modifier. I will, as you will notice a ring plus cloak was 3k gold. Leaving me with 0. Clubs were free and better then no ranged weapon at all. Now, that I am rich. I can move up to javelins or a sling! |
| Usurpator10-28-05, 03:34 PM | @Tellish of Ket: Tactics for Aramur sent @Caterane: Tactics for Mer-Man received @Sunwolf: Still waiting for Brilf's tactics... |
| King Uther10-28-05, 03:58 PM | I think the bat can deliver touches, despite the fact it has no natural attack. It can still hold the charge, and therefore it only makes sense as it is a touch attack, not natural attack, that lets go of the charge. |
| Begferdeth10-28-05, 04:12 PM | Sorry if I gave up on it too early, but at that point it was pretty obvious to me that you wouldnt get anywhere close to Kermandec, since you would end up giving up about 10-20 ft of movement each round to end in cover. Which didnt really do you much good, since Kermandec could just wait until you left cover to fire on you. You had no sneaking/hiding skills even listed, so I figured sneaking up on him was right out of it. And switching to ranged put you down 2 hits to start before you switched, and then you had equal chances to hit each other (+7 vs AC 18, and +8 vs AC 19) and equal damage. He was the only person with healing at all. So you were down a lot to try and suddenly make up lost time that way... Anyways, Im off to rerun it. Be back in a bit. The NASCAR fans will be dissappointed tho... all those left turns at high speed gone! :D If that's your reasoning, fine, although round 4 seems too early to me to give up on a tactic that hasn't proven impossible yet (especially since there's a fair amount of cover on the map for Ielenia's 60 foot double-move). As for how you improvised, I would have prefered staying in cover and shooting, but that's said with the knowledge of what's happened, and also considering that nowhere in my tactics did I mention her bow at all. Also, apologies for mistakes on my part. I forgot that protection spells are deflection bonuses when I bought the ring, and as for spot/listen, I just plain forgot. |
| Snommelp10-28-05, 04:18 PM | Still on the other topic I dont like it that a pitlord Jumps what has been designated as an Elder ruling. :confused: :confused: When did I, the pitlord in question, "jump" out of place? I informed the player affected by the ruling of the ruling as soon as I learned of it, and he brought the question here, where it sparked a debate. The fight has not been run yet, and since I have another fight to run it probably will not be run until tomorrow. Why am I being attacked, and what does that even have to do with the issue in question? As far as I can tell, the answers are "for no reason" and "nothing." But back to the topic of bat attacks, the more I see of the arguments, the more I believe that the Elders were wrong when they made the ruling oh so long ago. Sorry that it hurt your builds, ToK, but keeping a bad rule helps nobody. I would humbly suggest that the ruling be overturned. EDIT: Thanks for starting the rerun, BFD. I'll try to be nice when I tear apart the new draft (joke) |
| The Undershadow10-28-05, 05:12 PM | @ dracazar Tactics received. Will run last fight. |
| TelinArtho10-28-05, 05:23 PM | I've received tactics for Lortavos - I'll run the fight tonight if I get the chance. Still waiting on the others. |
| Gonbow10-28-05, 05:45 PM | Tactics for Sam and Torgir recieved; I'll start the fight tonight. Keep your eyes peeled for the battle of the stumpies finishing sometime tomorrow or sunday :) |
| SoulLord10-28-05, 05:54 PM | :confused: :confused: When did I, the pitlord in question, "jump" out of place? I informed the player affected by the ruling of the ruling as soon as I learned of it, and he brought the question here, where it sparked a debate. The fight has not been run yet, and since I have another fight to run it probably will not be run until tomorrow. Why am I being attacked, and what does that even have to do with the issue in question? As far as I can tell, the answers are "for no reason" and "nothing." But back to the topic of bat attacks, the more I see of the arguments, the more I believe that the Elders were wrong when they made the ruling oh so long ago. Sorry that it hurt your builds, ToK, but keeping a bad rule helps nobody. I would humbly suggest that the ruling be overturned. EDIT: Thanks for starting the rerun, BFD. I'll try to be nice when I tear apart the new draft (joke) I apologize if it sounded like a personal attack. It's not meant like that it seemed to me at the moment due to the numerous complaints about the perceived unfairness of the ruling that an unwritten consensus had been reached about allowing the bat to deliver the ranged touch attack no matter what the elder ruling said on the topic. I see that is not the case as you have pointed out. |
| TheMagister10-28-05, 06:02 PM | Tactics for Sam and Torgir recieved; I'll start the fight tonight. Keep your eyes peeled for the battle of the stumpies finishing sometime tomorrow or sunday :) Man, I apologize ahead of time for the length of my tactics. I dunno if all the planning in the world will win this one for Torgirr... TM |
| Snommelp10-28-05, 06:07 PM | Man, I apologize ahead of time for the length of my tactics. I dunno if all the planning in the world will win this one for Torgirr... TM Nope. Torgirr's as good as dead. I apologize for the inevitable defeat of another champion of goodness. @ SoulLord: apology accepted. No hard feelings, I promise. |
| Begferdeth10-28-05, 06:20 PM | Kermandec vs Ielenia, VERSION TWOOOOOO! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7611079) is ready for you guys to tear apart. You know, I think this ones gonna be even worse somehow. :P In the meanwhile, I believe I will get the most feared Dromite in Gladius ready for next week :D (hey, if hes the only one, hes the most feared, right?) |
| Sunwolf10-28-05, 06:30 PM | @Usurpator Tactics for Brilf sent by PM in 2 parts. |
| Snommelp10-28-05, 06:31 PM | Kermandec vs Ielenia, VERSION TWOOOOOO! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7611079) is ready for you guys to tear apart. You know, I think this ones gonna be even worse somehow. :P In the meanwhile, I believe I will get the most feared Dromite in Gladius ready for next week :D (hey, if hes the only one, hes the most feared, right?) Curses! ...I think I'll keep Ielenia around for one more fight; if it's a loss, I'll retire her. Thanks for the rerun, though. I appreciate it. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-28-05, 07:35 PM | Hey don't get me wrong, i'm not biased either way. I just think it's stupid when someone uses a tactic that someone disagrees with, and because they are good at convincing people of loop-holes that make no sense, just to get a victory. That's what happened, "oh-so-long-ago" as someone pointed out. Does it make sense, no. And you know what...same loop-holing and crappy ruling is about to happen soon again (with another fight) and you'll see what i mean. People like to just run off at the mouth with trying to find loop-holes (like the bat) that make no sense. Then, a short time later, when it's not their character involved they change their mind and you get screwed again. Why? Cuz they are good at convincing people of their nonesense. Is the bat-ruling nonsense? Hell yeah...but you know? The Elders ruled it as such "way back when" and thus is currently still under effect. If they wanna change it, they need to address is the Council of Gladius thread, where'd i'd be happy to debate it again. Of course this time i'd be fighting for the bat. But like i said, most of my points where from the OLD argument from the elders. In fact Cat was the greatest advocate AGAINST the bat. No surprise, cuz it was his character involved in the fight. humph! -ToK |
| Snommelp10-28-05, 07:43 PM | The more this debate continues, the more convinced I become that no matter how I run the fight, I'm going to get chewed out by someone. In the hopes that this argument will finish before deadlines, I'm going to put off the Archie/Alac fight until probably Sunday. My wishful thinking predicts that by then either a consensus will be reached or Cat will come by and reinforce the old rule (like he did in response to the PM I sent him). My opinion in the matter notwithstanding, I simply don't enjoy doing things that I know will cause someone else to attack me. Look for the fight on Sunday; Greefe vs. Wolfcaller, expect some time tonight. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-28-05, 08:06 PM | The more this debate continues, the more convinced I become that no matter how I run the fight, I'm going to get chewed out by someone. In the hopes that this argument will finish before deadlines, I'm going to put off the Archie/Alac fight until probably Sunday. My wishful thinking predicts that by then either a consensus will be reached or Cat will come by and reinforce the old rule (like he did in response to the PM I sent him). My opinion in the matter notwithstanding, I simply don't enjoy doing things that I know will cause someone else to attack me. Look for the fight on Sunday; Greefe vs. Wolfcaller, expect some time tonight. No one will attack you. My advice: Run it with the bat doing the attacks, because thats what my argument will be in the NEW discussion that will soon come. And the suggestion of including all these rulings in a sticky, i would back it up as well. Include it somehwere in the FAQ. Believe me, there have been a lot of shady rules base ond power-plays betweeen elders for character wins. But that's in the old days, and hopefully, we have a more sane club here. :D -ToK |
| LongArcher10-28-05, 08:14 PM | The more this debate continues, the more convinced I become that no matter how I run the fight, I'm going to get chewed out by someone. In the hopes that this argument will finish before deadlines, I'm going to put off the Archie/Alac fight until probably Sunday. My wishful thinking predicts that by then either a consensus will be reached or Cat will come by and reinforce the old rule (like he did in response to the PM I sent him). My opinion in the matter notwithstanding, I simply don't enjoy doing things that I know will cause someone else to attack me. Look for the fight on Sunday; Greefe vs. Wolfcaller, expect some time tonight. If you run it with the bat attacking I WILL find you. LOL. Just kidding of course. To be real honest, it doesn't bother me in the least if the bat attacks. So be my guest and I assure you, you will not hear a peep out of me. I was also simply going by the old ruling. Yes I was around back then as El_Jaguaro. But since it had been so long, I had forgotten my password, so I had to create a new account. Come to think of it, I was undefeated back then too. LOL So, with my 6-0 there, and soon to be 10-0 here, wow...that's pretty good. That makes me 16-0 in CoCo battles. Personally I don't see what all the fuss is about in winning. People put too much emphasis on it. If you put the emphasis on a good character concept, have fun, pay attention to your tactics and your opponent, you should do very well. And believe me, proof is in the pudding. :D Anyhow Snommelp, run it as Pauper wishes. Even if for some reason I lose, I won't complain. You do use an online roller though right? /amz |
| Snommelp10-28-05, 08:56 PM | @ ToK: Because of classes, I am never able to start my fights until Friday, and I like to do lower levels first (personal preference), so regardless, this fight wouldn't have been up until tomorrow. I just wanted to add a little dramaticism to my comments. @ Archer: Yeah, I use Invisible Castle. I sometimes forget to link the rolls though, so you might have to remind me after the fight's been run to edit the link in. All right, I've changed my mind. Ielenia's retiring this week. She's just not working the way I had imagined. It probably has something to do with the fact that one of my other characters can deflect arrows, and the third just doesn't care about getting hit. Makes it hard to make tactics for a defensive character with those two floating around in my head. Look for a new character from me soon, though. |
| NiQil10-28-05, 09:00 PM | @ Begferdeth: Thanks for the rerun One thing....by my count there are 4 missed shots in there for Kermadec...can you edit in how many of those 4 survived? |
| One_Winged_Angel10-28-05, 09:05 PM | No one will attack you. My advice: Run it with the bat doing the attacks, because thats what my argument will be in the NEW discussion that will soon come. And the suggestion of including all these rulings in a sticky, i would back it up as well. Include it somehwere in the FAQ. Believe me, there have been a lot of shady rules base ond power-plays betweeen elders for character wins. But that's in the old days, and hopefully, we have a more sane club here. :D -ToK Sane...right. I just hope this doesn't turn into another "Improved Natural Attack for Monks" debate. That one was rather...lengthy... |
| NiQil10-28-05, 09:10 PM | Sane...right. I just hope this doesn't turn into another "Improved Natural Attack for Monks" debate. That one was rather...lengthy... Well, thankfully, the recent FAQ finally put that one to rest....except for all the people who never agree with the Sage about anything anyway LOL |
| The Undershadow10-28-05, 11:43 PM | Vivi vs Zeno here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7619420&postcount=562) |
| One_Winged_Angel10-29-05, 12:43 AM | Well, thankfully, the recent FAQ finally put that one to rest....except for all the people who never agree with the Sage about anything anyway LOL Yah. Although I think Cat still has issues with that one. MysticMonk and I keep wondering if Wizards tries to keep us alive just to find rules issues. We do seem to end up with our fair share... |
| nightbanegod10-29-05, 03:23 AM | any word on the bounty hunters fight? ... i've got long range plans for the bounty hunter.... something like 9 attacks a round... |
| NiQil10-29-05, 03:26 AM | any word on the bounty hunters fight? ... i've got long range plans for the bounty hunter.... something like 9 attacks a round... Umm....you do realize that tactics were only just past their deadline when you posted, right? Give it at least the weekend LOL |
| nightbanegod10-29-05, 03:57 AM | Umm....you do realize that tactics were only just past their deadline when you posted, right? Give it at least the weekend LOL ehh just wondering if i hadnt missed my fight in the flurry of quickly posted fights... |
| TelinArtho10-29-05, 10:10 AM | @ The Undershadow in my tactics i said to move towards him and cast shocking grasp not magic missile. when hes close if i need to move and cast shocking grasp |
| TelinArtho10-29-05, 10:12 AM | sorry i posted under the wrong name its' Dr. Funk not Telinartho |
| Begferdeth10-29-05, 10:14 AM | @niqil: 3 of your misses survived. |
| Mind Rogue10-29-05, 10:22 AM | @ TaggIIV I still need tactics for Nyphanalith. I will probably run the fight this afternoon, so this is your last warning. |
| TelinArtho10-29-05, 10:25 AM | I'm still missing tactics for Griff Mythral - tactics received for Mrs. Buttmunch. Get them in as soon as possible - because Lortavos vs Dire Flame is becoming much like that 70 round fight... I'll be continuing my efforts on them tonight. |
| Book510-29-05, 12:33 PM | yeesh, I dont think anything in here is @me... but there is three pages on this bat and touch attack thing. who what when where? doesnt matter, here is my take. Bats and most everything else can grapple eh? Anything with a strength and dex can figure its way into a grapple. Thusly in the grapple dice path is the undefined and unquotable "Grab Attack" which is, if nothing else, a touch attack. For a bat this may involve a sort of belly flop.. but! (and I still havent read that running the game thing yet, but! ) if a bat can grapple - and I think it can -17 you have your grab/touch attack! @nightbanegod & mystikmonk2005 --- Tactics recived, aww you dont like the joust idea? As you like it then. |
| Dr. Funk10-29-05, 12:58 PM | @ The Undershadow you never put the gold from my profession for Vivi |
| nightbanegod10-29-05, 01:01 PM | @nightbanegod & mystikmonk2005 --- Tactics recived, aww you dont like the joust idea? As you like it then. naw ... sorry no jousting for you... and i apologize if my tactics make this fight last WAY too long... you may feel the need to just kind of give a rough estimate of what happens for 40-50 rounds or so...dont bother posting exact locations or something but yeah... it could be a VERY long and drawn out fight... |
| Gonbow10-29-05, 05:00 PM | I'm still missing tactics for Griff Mythral - tactics received for Mrs. Buttmunch. Get them in as soon as possible - because Lortavos vs Dire Flame is becoming much like that 70 round fight... I'll be continuing my efforts on them tonight. Really? Heh, he must have tried to go invisible. Ah well, I should have given suggestions to use tracking... Just remember that Lortavos has scent and knows how to use it, even if he isn't doing so /actively/. |
| TaggIIV10-29-05, 08:00 PM | tactics finally sent for nyph.. hope im not too late. |
| Iced10-29-05, 08:35 PM | I'm still missing tactics for Griff Mythral - tactics received for Mrs. Buttmunch. Get them in as soon as possible - because Lortavos vs Dire Flame is becoming much like that 70 round fight... I'll be continuing my efforts on them tonight. 70 rounds!? OK Something's up. That cat got lucky somewhere and my character's probably up on top of a pillar wasting arrows while it dodges around. *sigh* Sorry for the length TelinArtho; remember that my inventory is open if you need to finish it faster (but only if I win of course...;)) |
| Iced10-29-05, 08:35 PM | my tactics for Griff were sent today, hope its not too late. Running my second monster fight now. |
| Snommelp10-29-05, 09:57 PM | Wolfcaller and monkey vs. Greefe is up. We had ruled that things with multiple attacks can make multiple grapple checks for damage, right? EDIT: @ Gonbow: I just noticed that you posted Sam vs. Torgirr. I have a few comments. First, in response to your comment: grappling isn't an attack, but the touch attack to initiate is. That's what would get the +2 for a charging grapple. Also, although it probably helps my opponent to mention this, Sam was supposed to stop and shoot once Torgirr was in sight. Since I wrote in my tactics that Sam would stop and shoot, it's also safe for you to assume that he started armed with a loaded crossbow, rather than unarmed and with an unloaded crossbow sheathed. When I wrote the tactics, I thought I was facing Greefe for some reason, and when I realized my mistake I decided that the tactics I had sent would work anyway. That's why I didn't mention Entangle. Lastly: according to your comments at the end, the battle was "sort of close." By my reckoning, Sam still had effectively 26 HP when Torgirr croaked. Explanation? |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-29-05, 10:19 PM | Wolfcaller and monkey vs. Greefe is up. We had ruled that things with multiple attacks can make multiple grapple checks for damage, right? (Touch attack 20! Grapple 9+14 vs. 1!+7) When you succeed in initiating a grapple, you roll the dmg that round as well. So on the round that Bonecrusher grapples Greefe, dmg would be rolled there. No effect on the fight. Also, it's a possible critical. -ToK |
| Snommelp10-29-05, 10:23 PM | When you succeed in initiating a grapple, you roll the dmg that round as well. So on the round that Bonecrusher grapples Greefe, dmg would be rolled there. No effect on the fight. Also, it's a possible critical. -ToK Ah, but it does indeed have an effect on the fight; it ends it a round earlier; maybe sooner if the crit succeeds. How do I roll a grapple crit? Opposed check? |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-29-05, 10:27 PM | Ah, but it does indeed have an effect on the fight; it ends it a round earlier; maybe sooner if the crit succeeds. How do I roll a grapple crit? Opposed check? Wait a sec...my bad Snommelp. I gave you bum info. That's only the touch attack to start the grapple...not the actual grapple check itself. Bah, it's late and i'm tired. Plus i'm so ecstatic that my Sens romped the Leafs 8-0. :D -ToK |
| Gonbow10-29-05, 10:31 PM | Wolfcaller and monkey vs. Greefe is up. We had ruled that things with multiple attacks can make multiple grapple checks for damage, right? EDIT: @ Gonbow: I just noticed that you posted Sam vs. Torgirr. I have a few comments. First, in response to your comment: grappling isn't an attack, but the touch attack to initiate is. That's what would get the +2 for a charging grapple. Also, although it probably helps my opponent to mention this, Sam was supposed to stop and shoot once Torgirr was in sight. Since I wrote in my tactics that Sam would stop and shoot, it's also safe for you to assume that he started armed with a loaded crossbow, rather than unarmed and with an unloaded crossbow sheathed. When I wrote the tactics, I thought I was facing Greefe for some reason, and when I realized my mistake I decided that the tactics I had sent would work anyway. That's why I didn't mention Entangle. Lastly: according to your comments at the end, the battle was "sort of close." By my reckoning, Sam still had effectively 26 HP when Torgirr croaked. Explanation? It's a touch attack, not a melee attack with a weapon. Why is this important? Because charge lets you make a single melee attack, which I don't believe initiating a grapple falls under; if it did, you wouldn't be allowed to initiate AND damage in the same round. I prefer if people explicitly list what they are starting out with; it may be a little heavy-handed compared to my other allowances with fuzy tactics, but it is important. You were at 22 hps before his final attack; a crit on him attacking you could have concievably given him the battle (6x3 + 12 is more than enough to get 22 on a decent roll) And aprops ToK: You cant crit on a grapple check! It's not an attack. EDIT: Hmm. I suppose you could crit on the touch attack.. but that's... ehn :P I'll review your tactics Snom, but I don't think he was ever out of your LOS. Ah-ha diehard! True enough, he would have needed a bit more HP to take you out; my bad. |
| Snommelp10-29-05, 10:36 PM | It's a touch attack, not a melee attack with a weapon. Why is this important? Because charge lets you make a single melee attack, which I don't believe initiating a grapple falls under; if it did, you wouldn't be allowed to initiate AND damage in the same round.All right, good enough for me. I prefer if people explicitly list what they are starting out with; it may be a little heavy-handed compared to my other allowances with fuzy tactics, but it is important.Noted for future reference. You were at 22 hps before his final attack; a crit on him attacking you could have concievably given him the battle (6x3 + 12 is more than enough to get 22 on a decent roll)Ah... then you forgot Diehard. Sam was effectively at 32 for that attack. Not possible to get with 3d6+12. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-29-05, 10:52 PM | It's a touch attack, not a melee attack with a weapon. Why is this important? Because charge lets you make a single melee attack, which I don't believe initiating a grapple falls under; if it did, you wouldn't be allowed to initiate AND damage in the same round. You are incorrect. A melee touch attack IS a melee attack as well. Charge does grant you the bonus to make the melee touch attack as well. And once you initiate the grapple, you DO dmg on that same round. step 1: attack step 2: grab step 3: hold <------- This is the part that you deal damage in the same round you initiate the grapple. PHB 156. step 4: maintain And aprops ToK: You cant crit on a grapple check! It's not an attack. EDIT: Hmm. I suppose you could crit on the touch attack.. but that's... ehn :P Yes you can. It's like an attack and follows the same rules. We keep arguing about this every week, though not sure why. You can't crit on the touch attack to initiate a grapple, because no dmg is done. -ToK |
| NiQil10-29-05, 10:58 PM | Actually, you can grapple after a charge. A charge requires a melee attack, and a grapple is a melee attack. The +2 goes to the touch attack made to initiate the grapple. And once in the grapple, you can certainly deal damage, because the grapple check is part of the grapple attack. It is all considered one action, even though it takes up seperate rolls. Is sunder a special standard action or is it a melee attack variant? It has its own entry on the actions table, but the text describing it refers to it as a melee attack. Is sunder a melee attack only in the sense of hitting something with a melee weapon, or is sunder a true melee attack? Sunder is a special kind of melee attack. If it were a special standard action, its description would say so (as the descriptive text for the Manyshot feat says). If you make a full attack, and you have multiple attacks from a high base attack bonus, you can sunder more than once, or attack and sunder, or some other combination of attacking and sundering. Sunder does indeed get its own entry on Table 8-2: Action in Combat in the Player's Handbook. It needs one because unlike a regular melee attack, sunder provokes an attack of opportunity (although not if you have the Improved Sunder feat). You can also disarm, grapple or trip as a melee attack (or attack of opportunity). Emphasis mine. Grapple is a melee attack, therefore allowed at the end of a charge. |
| NiQil10-29-05, 11:02 PM | You are incorrect. A melee touch attack IS a melee attack as well. Charge does grant you the bonus to make the melee touch attack as well. And once you initiate the grapple, you DO dmg on that same round. step 1: attack step 2: grab step 3: hold <------- This is the part that you deal damage in the same round you initiate the grapple. PHB 156. step 4: maintain Yes you can. It's like an attack and follows the same rules. We keep arguing about this every week, though not sure why. You can't crit on the touch attack to initiate a grapple, because no dmg is done. -ToK Actually, ToK, it is the melee touch attack that you can crit on, not the grapple check itself. The grapple check is not an attack, it is a check. But the touch attack to initiate a grapple is most certainly an attack, and that is where a crit can occur. However, if the grapple is unsuccessful, no crit occurs, since a successful grapple check is required to deal damage. Confirming a critical is done by making a second melee touch attack, because you can't confirm a critical on an opposed check. This is why the bonus for charging goes on the touch attack, and not the grapple check, and why things like weapon finesse affect your touch attack to start the grapple, but not the grapple check itself. The grapple check is not an attack roll. You crit on the touch attack. |
| TelinArtho10-29-05, 11:08 PM | Lortavos vs Validi (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7626545) is up. Another 70 round fight... how much fun... I've got tactics for the last two gladiators. However, since I'm feeling sick right now - I'll probably wait until Monday to work on it. /d |
| Gonbow10-29-05, 11:19 PM | Lortavos vs Validi (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7626545) is up. Another 70 round fight... how much fun... I've got tactics for the last two gladiators. However, since I'm feeling sick right now - I'll probably wait until Monday to work on it. /d Niggle; Lortavos would have attempted to tumble in to avoid the AoO from the guisarme; And if we are keeping rolls, that means the readied would have missed me. However, I don't think I can crit-off a win, and said kept rolls would mean he hits me the next turn, so there is no difference. <Sighs> Damn dissolving weapon. At least the mage hand helped ^_^ EDIT: Secondary Niggle, why didn't he attempt to grapple me? I would have been fine with that ^_^; Really though, if he gets to not grapple, shouldn't I get to fly up after him? Getting behind complete cover re: his position to drink the potion wouldn't be that hard. |
| Iced10-29-05, 11:29 PM | wow mage hand to drink potions *shakes head* that's creative. I was wondering how you planned to have him drink those potions, I thought your rationale may be to simply have him swallow the potion whole. Long fight, Validi really needs higher attack bonuses or he'll have trouble later. That's one of the weak points of my build. Good fight Gonbow and thanks TelinArtho for spending the time to run all those rounds. !Iced |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-29-05, 11:40 PM | Actually, ToK, it is the melee touch attack that you can crit on, not the grapple check itself. The grapple check is not an attack, it is a check. But the touch attack to initiate a grapple is most certainly an attack, and that is where a crit can occur. However, if the grapple is unsuccessful, no crit occurs, since a successful grapple check is required to deal damage. Confirming a critical is done by making a second melee touch attack, because you can't confirm a critical on an opposed check. This is why the bonus for charging goes on the touch attack, and not the grapple check, and why things like weapon finesse affect your touch attack to start the grapple, but not the grapple check itself. The grapple check is not an attack roll. You crit on the touch attack. Your opinion i guess. The debate keeps coming up every three weeks, i'm through debating it. In my fights, i crit on the grapple check, not the touch attack. That's it, that's all. That's the most energy i'm putting into this debate. -ToK |
| Mind Rogue10-29-05, 11:50 PM | Sorry, guys. I guess I lied. The fight will be up tomorrow. On the bright side, I did recieve Tagg's tactics, so I don't have to improv anything. |
| Ribking10-29-05, 11:53 PM | Wolfcaller and monkey vs. Greefe is up. We had ruled that things with multiple attacks can make multiple grapple checks for damage, right?Wow....that didn't go well at all. At least it was quick and painful. I imagined it would be drawn out and painful. :P I never expected to win this match, so you'll get no complaints from me. But I was wondering if anyone would be so kind as to point me to the Grapple debate that was responsible for the multiple grapple attacks per round? I usually don't have much time to read through the numerous threads....but I'd really like to read up on this before I chime in with my opinion. Thanks. |
| Book510-29-05, 11:57 PM | Lissa vs First (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?=7626742#post7626742) That went faster than expected... there were a few nat20s. Comments before I map it up? @ToK - if it comes up everyweek.. post a gladius descision regarding whats already been said? |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-30-05, 12:06 AM | Lissa vs First (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?=7626742#post7626742) That went faster than expected... there were a few nat20s. Comments before I map it up? It seems like Lissa attacked while she was at zero hp's cuz you didn't subtract the 14 she suffered when dmg by First. That means First is at -4, and Lissa falls unconcious at -1. You then make stabilization checks to see who bleeds out first. -ToK |
| nightbanegod10-30-05, 12:21 AM | Lissa vs First (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?=7626742#post7626742) That went faster than expected... there were a few nat20s. Comments before I map it up? @ToK - if it comes up everyweek.. post a gladius descision regarding whats already been said? WHOA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT HAPPENED..... Shield, Tower: This massive wooden shield is nearly as tall as you are. In most situations, it provides the indicated shield bonus to your AC. However, you can instead use it as PHB page 314: attacks against a creature with total cover automatically fail, total cover blocks line of sight and line of effect, see cover., though you must give up your attacks to do so. The shield does not, however, provide cover against targeted spells; a spellcaster can cast a spell on you by targeting the shield you are holding. You cannot bash with a tower shield, nor can you use your shield hand for anything else. When employing a tower shield in combat, you take a –2 penalty on attack rolls because of the shield’s encumbrance. this means in my tactics that she cannot hit me with arrows since i duck behind the tower shield FOR TOTAL COVER against the arrows... and also it does say my very first attack with flail against her is a trip attack... and follow up sunder to shatter her weapons... she shouldnt have a lance to fight with nor should she even be standing up to fight back.... the total defensive you are using is exceptable however it does not achieve what my tactics were supposed to cover in the first place... if i can get partial cover from my shield then the total defensive is a must action as well... please check this in the fight as well please... |
| NiQil10-30-05, 01:19 AM | Your opinion i guess. The debate keeps coming up every three weeks, i'm through debating it. In my fights, i crit on the grapple check, not the touch attack. That's it, that's all. That's the most energy i'm putting into this debate. -ToK Actually it's not my opinion...it's per the FAQ. I'll not type it out here unless you *really want me to, but per the FAQ, grapple checks are just that...checks. Not attacks. I found that out when I was trying to figure out if weapon finesse could apply to the opposed grapple checks (which I learned it can't). For the same reason that weapon finesse doesn't apply is the reason the crit occurs on the touch attack....you can't use things that affect attack rolls to affect checks. If you could, I would love to be able to start getting critical success on my listen and spot checks from now on. |
| NiQil10-30-05, 01:22 AM | Wow....that didn't go well at all. At least it was quick and painful. I imagined it would be drawn out and painful. :P I never expected to win this match, so you'll get no complaints from me. But I was wondering if anyone would be so kind as to point me to the Grapple debate that was responsible for the multiple grapple attacks per round? I usually don't have much time to read through the numerous threads....but I'd really like to read up on this before I chime in with my opinion. Thanks. Your best bet is to go to the D&D home page and read the Rules of the Game articles entitled All About Grappling. The rules that CoCo use come from there, specifically that creatures with multiple natural weapons can use an action for each one of them in a grapple (and by extension, also allows monks to flurry in a grapple). |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-30-05, 01:23 AM | Actually it's not my opinion...it's per the FAQ. I'll not type it out here unless you *really want me to, but per the FAQ, grapple checks are just that...checks. Not attacks. I found that out when I was trying to figure out if weapon finesse could apply to the opposed grapple checks (which I learned it can't). For the same reason that weapon finesse doesn't apply is the reason the crit occurs on the touch attack....you can't use things that affect attack rolls to affect checks. If you could, I would love to be able to start getting critical success on my listen and spot checks from now on. OH right...ya. ok...it changed. K, kick me in the head. It's late, can't sleep, wife is snoring up a storm, lost $12 in my sports picks...forgot to bet my two favourite lines, which would have won me $200. Ack, not using any brain cells here...just running on empty. Ugh...gimme shock therapy...that might wake me AND job my memory. Stupid contradictory faq's. Ok...***..frack..fig...oh..oh..FAQ it is. <gurble, gurggle, gubble> -ToK |
| Snommelp10-30-05, 01:55 AM | But I was wondering if anyone would be so kind as to point me to the Grapple debate that was responsible for the multiple grapple attacks per round? I usually don't have much time to read through the numerous threads....but I'd really like to read up on this before I chime in with my opinion. I don't remember when it happened, but you can see the results: every monk that grapples flurries in the grapple. I think it was Sin that had a grappling horse that kicked and bit while in a grapple. EDIT: Missed NiQil's post. Yeah, that's your best bet. |
| Sindorin10-30-05, 01:10 AM | Yeah, it was one of my horses at some point... I don't really remember how it happened, I don't think I even wrote to have the horse grapple in my tactics for whatever fight it was... |
| TheMagister10-30-05, 07:50 AM | @Gonbow Sam doesn't have the "Run" feat and so loses his Dex bonus for the round. I don't think he's able to use it for his saving throw vs. entangle. (He made the save anyways, but I'm just sayin'.) Sam can't double move out of the entangle field in one round. Per PHB, when movement is restricted, moving horizontally and vertically on the map grid takes 10' of movement and moving diagonally takes 15' of movement. Sam moves 30 ft. a round, so (at most) that's four diagonal squares, still on the edge of the entangle field (20,-2). That's one more chance for him to blow a save (I'm not that lucky) and one more round for Torgirr to move/buff/whatever. You gave Sam three grapple checks in round 3. Not that it matters (you only counted damage for one of the two successful checks). Furthermore, Sam can't flurry in the same round that he moves and attacks. Flurry requires a full-attack action, which requires that you not move in the same round (beyond a 5 ft. step). Again, it doesn't really matter, b/c the first check in the round should be the one that does the damage, and you only rolled the damage once. Torgirr can't use a light weapon in two hands in a grapple...it's just not allowed (if it is, it's weird). Really, the only thing I want is for Sam to have to save one more time vs. the entangle field. The rest of them are made academic by the dice and by mistakes covering up mistakes (we all make them, I'm not being judgemental). Tell me what you think...as always, its your prerogative if you want to edit a fight or not. I'm just glad Torgirr only spent 50 gp in this fight. TM |
| Ribking10-30-05, 08:41 AM | Your best bet is to go to the D&D home page and read the Rules of the Game articles entitled All About Grappling. The rules that CoCo use come from there, specifically that creatures with multiple natural weapons can use an action for each one of them in a grapple (and by extension, also allows monks to flurry in a grapple).Thanks for the info, Niqil.I don't remember when it happened, but you can see the results: every monk that grapples flurries in the grapple. I think it was Sin that had a grappling horse that kicked and bit while in a grapple.I've read through the rules, and it seems like the Ape was run as it should have been, granted that CoCo uses the "simple" Monster grappling rules. The only issue I can see is that the Bite attacks should have been at -5 (neither of which would have changed the outcome of the match). Now, I am sure that I am not the only one finds this a bit overpowering when it comes to creatures/animals (ie. the whole grappling horse issue - which, to me, seems totally laughable). How likely is it that the CoCo no longer uses the "simple" rules for animal/creature grappling and instead uses the "complex" version?Monsters and Grappling The rules don't say much about how monsters conduct grappling combat. It's easiest, however, to allow a monster one grappling attack per natural weapon it has, provided that the natural weapon can hold on to the target in some fashion. The monster uses its listed grapple bonus when attacking with a primary natural weapon (or weapons) and its listed grapple bonus -5 for any secondary natural weapons. If the monster's grapple attack deals damage to a foe, the damage is lethal (unless the monster takes a -4 penalty to deal nonlethal damage) and equal to the damage rating for the natural weapon. For example, a troll grappling with a claw has a grapple bonus of +14 and deals 1d6+6 point of damage with the attack. A slightly more complex method for handling grappling monsters is to allow the monster one grapple attack for every 5 points of base attack bonus it has. If the monster has natural weaponry, it deals lethal damage from one natural attack. The monster can use each natural weapon only once during its turn. If the monster's base attack allows it more grapple attacks than it has natural weapons, it must deal normal unarmed damage for any extra attacks.It would keep the number of attacks that animals/monsters get while grappling on par with that of a fighter. I think it's a wise choise..... my $.02 |
| TheMagister10-30-05, 09:03 AM | Well, I have to say that I'm on the fence about the animal grappling issue. On the one hand, from a balance perspective, yeah. It's a bit too powerful. Grappling horses. Sheesh. On the other, I can see it from a realism translating to fantasy perspective. Have you ever been "grappled" by an angry housecat? If you think about it, I'm sure you'll remember that that cat got a LOT more grapple checks to deal damage than you did. As a matter of fact, those scars on my hand and forearm suggest that that cat got one for each of his natural weapons. Horses knock people down and trample them all the time in the stories; I don't really have THAT hard of a time picturing it in my head as a horse's "grapple" method. I've talked myself into it...I think we should use the "easy" rule set. Animals are generally weak in so many other areas that it makes sense that they should be strong in one facet of melee combat. TM |
| Mind Rogue10-30-05, 09:23 AM | I still have a PM from Cat from last week on the issue. It looks a bit ugly since it is a series of nested quote boxes, but it says that you can either use the "attack an opponent" option to hit with all of your natural weapons at -4, or else you can do the "damage an opponent" option to hit them with your unarmed strike. Thus, a sahuaguin mutant could either make 4 claw attacks and 2 rakes or else he could make a single opposed grapple check for pitiful subdual damage. The multiple claws probably are a much better option. Also, a quick extrapolation from this rule is that monks should only be able to flurry while using the "attack an opponent" option. They don't get it when using the opposed grapple checks of "damage an opponent". |
| SoulLord10-30-05, 10:32 AM | Well, I have to say that I'm on the fence about the animal grappling issue. On the one hand, from a balance perspective, yeah. It's a bit too powerful. Grappling horses. Sheesh. On the other, I can see it from a realism translating to fantasy perspective. Have you ever been "grappled" by an angry housecat? If you think about it, I'm sure you'll remember that that cat got a LOT more grapple checks to deal damage than you did. As a matter of fact, those scars on my hand and forearm suggest that that cat got one for each of his natural weapons. Horses knock people down and trample them all the time in the stories; I don't really have THAT hard of a time picturing it in my head as a horse's "grapple" method. I've talked myself into it...I think we should use the "easy" rule set. Animals are generally weak in so many other areas that it makes sense that they should be strong in one facet of melee combat. TM I think the house cat is doing natural attacks to you while in a grapple rather than making grapple checks to cause damage to you. Perhaps it's time to start that elder rulings thread. |
| TheMagister10-30-05, 10:43 AM | I think the house cat is doing natural attacks to you while in a grapple rather than making grapple checks to cause damage to you. Perhaps it's time to start that elder rulings thread. I agree. TM |
| Cerebus1310-30-05, 10:43 AM | Rebreg vs. Gang (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7629058&postcount=569) is up. ... I still have a PM from Cat from last week on the issue. It looks a bit ugly since it is a series of nested quote boxes, but it says that you can either use the "attack an opponent" option to hit with all of your natural weapons at -4, or else you can do the "damage an opponent" option to hit them with your unarmed strike. Thus, a sahuaguin mutant could either make 4 claw attacks and 2 rakes or else he could make a single opposed grapple check for pitiful subdual damage. The multiple claws probably are a much better option. Also, a quick extrapolation from this rule is that monks should only be able to flurry while using the "attack an opponent" option. They don't get it when using the opposed grapple checks of "damage an opponent".This is another contradictory rule to what we have been using in the CoCo so far. These rulings need to be documented somewhere because it is becoming very hard to make new characters without a million different rules exceptions affecting them. If Caterane could confirm this please do, I have a character concept that would be directly affected by how this is going to be interpreted. |
| King Uther10-30-05, 11:09 AM | Looks like Haizan vs Squall is up. 2 issues come to mind. 1. An air elemental gets AoOs on Haizan when he's invisible. 2. Haizan is allowed to use True Strike 2 rounds after casting it, because he casts it hundreds of feet away from the opponent. Both do not affect the fight as all Haizan has to do is cast True Strike elsewhere, and the elemental didn't hit on the AoOs(but the misses would go to the first hit, which then wouldn't have happened) |
| SauroGrenom10-30-05, 11:48 AM | Cerebus13, Thanks for running the fight for Rebreg, I noticed that Rebreg's crafting activity income was not added to his winnings. Please edit that in. BTW, As a grapple build, Rebreg's strength is his primary stat followed by con and dex is tertiary. In the Arena, if his opponent has no allies and uses attack opponent actions while grappling, then the dex would be valuable. But if the opponent has allies or uses grapple checks, then the extra dex only helps on initiative, saves and attacks from the guy he is grappling with. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-30-05, 12:12 PM | Looks like Haizan vs Squall is up. 2 issues come to mind. 1. An air elemental gets AoOs on Haizan when he's invisible. Unless it has a way to see invisibility, it cannot take AoO's vs invisible opponents. I didn't read the fight, and it may, but just a bare-bones air ele, cannot. -ToK |
| Dr. Funk10-30-05, 12:36 PM | @Enterik regarding Squall vs Haizan: 1. From my tactics: Squall will start in found center and ready to cast Spiritual Weapon From round 1: S casts spiritual weapon from memory My tactics clearly state I want to ready to cast it. You simply cast it straight off - this is wrong. |
| Sindorin10-30-05, 01:02 PM | Sorry Dr. Funk, but you cannot prebuff with a readied action. I asked long ago, and found this out. Unless I have misinterpreted what you wanted to do - you may have simply wanted it cast between rounds 1 and 2, in which case your point is probably valid :). |
| Cerebus1310-30-05, 01:23 PM | Cerebus13, Thanks for running the fight for Rebreg, I noticed that Rebreg's crafting activity income was not added to his winnings. Please edit that in. BTW, As a grapple build, Rebreg's strength is his primary stat followed by con and dex is tertiary. In the Arena, if his opponent has no allies and uses attack opponent actions while grappling, then the dex would be valuable. But if the opponent has allies or uses grapple checks, then the extra dex only helps on initiative, saves and attacks from the guy he is grappling with.Updated. |
| TelinArtho10-30-05, 01:24 PM | He was saying that he doesn't want to cast it straight off, but rather ready to cast it when he sees his opponent. He did not want to cast it in round 1 without LOS. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-30-05, 01:27 PM | He was saying that he doesn't want to cast it straight off, but rather ready to cast it when he sees his opponent. He did not want to cast it in round 1 without LOS. That's how i would interpret it as well. -ToK |
| Gonbow10-30-05, 02:03 PM | @Gonbow Sam doesn't have the "Run" feat and so loses his Dex bonus for the round. I don't think he's able to use it for his saving throw vs. entangle. (He made the save anyways, but I'm just sayin'.) Sam can't double move out of the entangle field in one round. Per PHB, when movement is restricted, moving horizontally and vertically on the map grid takes 10' of movement and moving diagonally takes 15' of movement. Sam moves 30 ft. a round, so (at most) that's four diagonal squares, still on the edge of the entangle field (20,-2). That's one more chance for him to blow a save (I'm not that lucky) and one more round for Torgirr to move/buff/whatever. You gave Sam three grapple checks in round 3. Not that it matters (you only counted damage for one of the two successful checks). Furthermore, Sam can't flurry in the same round that he moves and attacks. Flurry requires a full-attack action, which requires that you not move in the same round (beyond a 5 ft. step). Again, it doesn't really matter, b/c the first check in the round should be the one that does the damage, and you only rolled the damage once. Torgirr can't use a light weapon in two hands in a grapple...it's just not allowed (if it is, it's weird). Really, the only thing I want is for Sam to have to save one more time vs. the entangle field. The rest of them are made academic by the dice and by mistakes covering up mistakes (we all make them, I'm not being judgemental). Tell me what you think...as always, its your prerogative if you want to edit a fight or not. I'm just glad Torgirr only spent 50 gp in this fight. TM Running makes your reflex saves worse? O.o No, I don't think that is how it works, but I'll check out the wording on running and reflex saves just in case. Hmm, your right. I let him move the equivalent of 80' that turn; I will fix this. Flurrying and grappling is a bit... odd. Personally, I don't think we should be able to do it at all, as per your statement that it is a full-round action, but eh. Your probably right here too, but I figured it would be more fair :P Silly grapple rules. |
| Maraxus10-30-05, 04:27 PM | Arbados vs Casgish Darath is up. Did not really went as the combatants expected. |
| Enterik10-30-05, 07:28 PM | Well, I'm sick, so it's not surprising that I misread your intention have a readied action and I agree with the more experienced pitlords on this point (in hindsight) However, without the triggering circumstances, I think meaning of your tactic is equivocal. Your tactics, sparse as they are, seem to be predicated on line of sight with no contingency for an invisible opponent. The best you could muster (and you would learn this from Aero by the end of round 2) was that your foe was invisible and hearing would have to guide your action. Had you waited for LOS, you probably would have waiting to get scorched. Squall and Aero had the pressure on Haizan from the get go, and had Aero rolled better on some of those listen checks the fight would have been different. At what point do you think spiritual weapon should have been cast? The tactics sent by both gladiators had no contingency for the most vexing problem the PC faced, for Squall it was an invisible foe, for Haizan, it was being based early in his buff sequence by the superfast Aero. I had to improvise a bit for both of you, so I'm interested in how you each have actually faced the challenges of this match... |
| Mind Rogue10-30-05, 08:12 PM | The Aerial battle of Azriel, Angel of Death, and Nyphanalith, the Masked Kobold, is up and ready to fall to the ground. After they took to the air, neither of them hit the ground until one of them fell unconscious, so it pretty much was all aerial. |
| King Uther10-30-05, 10:33 PM | @Maraxus A few things to note. 1: He needs to make a concentration check to cast and move on the mount at the same time. 2: I haven't analyzed the fight thoroughly, but he seemed to gain LOS very easily despite me being behind cover. 3: Withdrawing from combat doesn't provoke AoOs and nets me a double move around cover. 4: Granted I didn't write extensive tactics as normal, if my buffs were completely interrupted like that, I see no reason not to try and blast him with mind thrust earlier |
| waywreth10-30-05, 11:08 PM | @Maraxus - regarding that same fight: Given him trying to mind thrust me... I had 3 images up as well. He only has a 25% chance to hit me. |
| Book510-31-05, 12:47 AM | @nightbanegod & MysticMonk2005 - fight edited. More natural 20s... |
| Snommelp10-31-05, 01:11 AM | Alac vs. Archie is finally up. ToK stumbled upon my Invisible Castle rolls (Name ArchieAlac) and helped me with some mistakes I had made, which I corrected in RED in the fight as they happened. Interactive DnD, who would've thought? For character tactics, see the previous post HERE |
| LongArcher10-31-05, 01:27 AM | rd7-13: why did I not just go into the mist and attack him? That would have made the most sense. I was pretty specific in attack Alac with my spectral hand...and by default that should have meant getting closer. why would I be attacking the bat? I've completely ignored it in my tactics...and probably should have been ignored through the fight. It has a horrible chance of hitting me. Plus not only am I attacking it, I'm actually afraid of it and running away? I just can't wrap my head around the fact that I have 60' perfect flight and I'm being outmanouvered by someone with 30'? It seems like I did nothing but run away from a meaningless bat while getting pummelled by magic missiles. And I only took baby steps at that. One single move, 120' while flying downards puts me WAY WAY out of range of his magic missiles. But that's not even the point. Why wasn't I in his face from the get go attacking with shocking grasp while he was in the mist? I would have had about 6 rounds of attacks before he would have been able to fire-off his magic missiles. That really is my only beef with the fight. I wrote aboslutely horrible tactics and paid the ultimate price. So the loss is my own fault really. I'm just stuck on the one issue, that I was so fearful of the bat and his mist, that I stood there like a frozen zombie? <shurgs> Good fight Pauper. /amz |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-31-05, 01:32 AM | Alac vs. Archie is finally up. ToK stumbled upon my Invisible Castle rolls (Name ArchieAlac) and helped me with some mistakes I had made, which I corrected in RED in the fight as they happened. Interactive DnD, who would've thought? For character tactics, see the previous post HERE Gladius Weekly will be all over this fight like white on rice. LOL LOL LOL -ToK |
| Snommelp10-31-05, 01:43 AM | rd7-13: why did I not just go into the mist and attack him? That would have made the most sense. I was pretty specific in attack Alac with my spectral hand...and by default that should have meant getting closer. why would I be attacking the bat? I've completely ignored it in my tactics...and probably should have been ignored through the fight. It has a horrible chance of hitting me. Plus not only am I attacking it, I'm actually afraid of it and running away? I just can't wrap my head around the fact that I have 60' perfect flight and I'm being outmanouvered by someone with 30'? It seems like I did nothing but run away from a meaningless bat while getting pummelled by magic missiles. And I only took baby steps at that. One single move, 120' while flying downards puts me WAY WAY out of range of his magic missiles. But that's not even the point. Why wasn't I in his face from the get go attacking with shocking grasp while he was in the mist? I would have had about 6 rounds of attacks before he would have been able to fire-off his magic missiles. That really is my only beef with the fight. I wrote aboslutely horrible tactics and paid the ultimate price. So the loss is my own fault really. I'm just stuck on the one issue, that I was so fearful of the bat and his mist, that I stood there like a frozen zombie? <shurgs> Good fight Pauper. /amz You didn't go into the mist because doing so and getting to the point where you could see him would have put you into melee range, which it seemed from your tactics you wanted to avoid. Your tactics have a lot of options, but all of them involve you staying out of melee range. Can't do that if you're diving into the mist to find and attack him. I had you attack the bat when it came out because it was actually a threat, and because by killing it you could potentially force Alac out of the mist. And yes, you were outmaneuvered by a grounded character with 30 foot speed. That's because you were down to your Scorching Rays, which have a much shorter range than his Magic Missiles. You had to stay close, and he just needed you in sight. Also, note that you killed that bat before he came out and pummeled you with Magic Missiles. You spent one round getting out of the bat's charge range, then tried to touch it, up to the point where it died. It wasn't until after then that Alac re-emerged and starting tearing Archie apart with Magic Missiles. |
| LongArcher10-31-05, 02:01 AM | You didn't go into the mist because doing so and getting to the point where you could see him would have put you into melee range, which it seemed from your tactics you wanted to avoid. Your tactics have a lot of options, but all of them involve you staying out of melee range. Can't do that if you're diving into the mist to find and attack him. I had you attack the bat when it came out because it was actually a threat, and because by killing it you could potentially force Alac out of the mist. And yes, you were outmaneuvered by a grounded character with 30 foot speed. That's because you were down to your Scorching Rays, which have a much shorter range than his Magic Missiles. You had to stay close, and he just needed you in sight. Also, note that you killed that bat before he came out and pummeled you with Magic Missiles. You spent one round getting out of the bat's charge range, then tried to touch it, up to the point where it died. It wasn't until after then that Alac re-emerged and starting tearing Archie apart with Magic Missiles. That is completely fair, and I am in 100% agreement with how you ran it. I only have myself to blame for this lost. @ALL: It's been a slice. I really enjoyed my time here in CoCo once again. However, this time I'm actually hobbling out instead of gracefully bowing out. I guess I can't claim the title of CoCo's only "Undefeated in all of History" title now can I? Still 15-1 is quite respectable. I want to congradualte my opponent Alac (Pauper). I did read your past tactics and saw a lot of obscuring mist options in there and I should have been wiser. I should have stuck with my original instinct and that was to melee you with minor buffing. Congrats on earning what is perhaps the most lopsided underdog victory in the history of CoCo. Maybe I will see you all in 9 or 10 months from now, when I get the itch again. ;) /amz |
| Maraxus10-31-05, 02:41 AM | @Maraxus A few things to note. 1: He needs to make a concentration check to cast and move on the mount at the same time. 2: I haven't analyzed the fight thoroughly, but he seemed to gain LOS very easily despite me being behind cover. 3: Withdrawing from combat doesn't provoke AoOs and nets me a double move around cover. 4: Granted I didn't write extensive tactics as normal, if my buffs were completely interrupted like that, I see no reason not to try and blast him with mind thrust earlier 1: No, the turns he casted, he only did single moves - like you. 2: Yes, that killed me one time, too, but no hiding untill first action. 3: You could have withdrawn and he could have followed you. His mount is 1.5 times faster, so I skipped this option. 4: I thought about this very long. Especially to save you money. But then, I feared in round 3, that when you are deafend from the own (that you saw flying for you with the tunderstones), you will have more problems to cast that spell, so I did it at that point. Then in the next turn, I thought about readying a mind thrust but the hit pints were so low, this would have been a (nearly) 100% lose tactic, since you know he has magic missle remembered. Vigor had a chance to save you in case his horse makes some bad attack rolles and/or his magic missles deal not that much damage. @Maraxus - regarding that same fight: Given him trying to mind thrust me... I had 3 images up as well. He only has a 25% chance to hit me. Oh, isn't this just, when he does something that needs an attack roll? - No seriously, I had simply forgot this. Would mean that Albados had even more reason to simply surrender, after you reached him... :( |
| LongArcher10-31-05, 03:56 AM | Something is bothering me. I was trying to sleep and I was thinking about just how much I misjudged and overlooked stuff on my opponent's sheet. I mean, I looked at his previous tactics and saw many instances of Obscuring mist and was thinking to myself, why didn't I prepare myself for it? Now, before Pauper thinks I'm just doing this for sour grapes or because I am a sore loser, I am not. I honestly don't believe it was there when I looked at the sheet after pairings. Last edited by Pauper : 10-28-05 at 02:50 PM Now to me, that looks like the sheet was edited Friday, about the same time that he'd be doing tactics. But on that point I am just guessing. Since I've been gone for awhile, but when a person edited their character (for any reason) after they were paired, this resulted in an automatic loss. So even if this was an oversight by myself, and Alac did have an obscuring mist memorized, shouldn't have that given me the win by default? /amz |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-31-05, 07:59 AM | Something is bothering me. I was trying to sleep and I was thinking about just how much I misjudged and overlooked stuff on my opponent's sheet. I mean, I looked at his previous tactics and saw many instances of Obscuring mist and was thinking to myself, why didn't I prepare myself for it? Now, before Pauper thinks I'm just doing this for sour grapes or because I am a sore loser, I am not. I honestly don't believe it was there when I looked at the sheet after pairings. Last edited by Pauper : 10-28-05 at 02:50 PM Now to me, that looks like the sheet was edited Friday, about the same time that he'd be doing tactics. But on that point I am just guessing. Since I've been gone for awhile, but when a person edited their character (for any reason) after they were paired, this resulted in an automatic loss. So even if this was an oversight by myself, and Alac did have an obscuring mist memorized, shouldn't have that given me the win by default? /amz Wow....what a thing to wake up to in the morning. I had trouble believing it, but looked up myself. "Last edited by Pauper : 10-28-05 at 02:50 PM." and there it is. :( Just when i was still laughing my butt off at Alac pulling this off, something goes and throws a wrench into it all. :( You are in fact correct. The rule still exists. :( I am so so so dissapointed. What kind of deadlines are there? The most important deadline is on Wednesday 9 PM GMT (Western European Time). At that time, the GM rolls the new pairings. If your character is active in any way, you must not edit your character sheet after this deadline, else you will automatically lose the fight. -ToK |
| Snommelp10-31-05, 09:53 AM | Well, that's quite a Halloween hello! And the funny thing is that I deleted his PMed tactics, so I don't have any proof of when he sent them (except his post in this thread, which says that he sent them Thursday). Regardless, though, that's a disqualifying offense, so Pauper, you'd better explain yourself. Even with a good explanation, I can't see how or why I can or should let Alac win. Until further notice, this is now the official match between Alac and Archie: Alac is disqualified! He used nothing and gains 500 XP and 533 GP Archie wins by default! She used nothing and gains 1500 XP and 1600 GP EDIT: With the current links on the Characters thread, you can't see when a sheet was last edited. Is there some way to change the links so that it shows that? If not, I can suck it up, but if there is, that would prevent fights being run where a character should be disqualified. |
| Cerebus1310-31-05, 10:00 AM | EDIT: With the current links on the Characters thread, you can't see when a sheet was last edited. Is there some way to change the links so that it shows that? If not, I can suck it up, but if there is, that would prevent fights being run where a character should be disqualified.Not sure if it is possible to automatically display the last time when a thread was updated...so it may require a ton of manual editting. |
| Snommelp10-31-05, 10:19 AM | Hmm, your right. I let him move the equivalent of 80' that turn; I will fix this. I know that Torgirr's going to lose anyway, but do you think you could get that 1 extra reflex save rolled so that it can be official, Gonbow? I just double-checked, and when Sam wins he'll be leveling, but I don't want to level him until it's official, just in case there's a fluke natural 1 rolled. |
| TelinArtho10-31-05, 10:26 AM | @Iced and sloisel regarding my last fight: I will have the fight done, but since I screwed up (again), I don't have Mrs. Buttmunch's tactics in front of me... I do have them - just not here. Anyway, I've PMed sloisel to resend them via PM - and if he does, I'll get the fight up in time. If not, it will be done first thing tomorrow. |
| Gonbow10-31-05, 10:43 AM | I know that Torgirr's going to lose anyway, but do you think you could get that 1 extra reflex save rolled so that it can be official, Gonbow? I just double-checked, and when Sam wins he'll be leveling, but I don't want to level him until it's official, just in case there's a fluke natural 1 rolled. Sure. As per the combat actions section of the SRD, he only loses his dexterity bonus to AC when running; not his dexterity bonus in general. Roll: 18 (http://krisinchico.brinkster.net/searchroll.asp?username=Sam#162483) I'll edit this into the fight when I get a chance; but probably not today as I have to finish my Research paper and my take-home math mid-term. |
| One_Winged_Angel10-31-05, 12:15 PM | The Aerial battle of Azriel, Angel of Death, and Nyphanalith, the Masked Kobold, is up and ready to fall to the ground. After they took to the air, neither of them hit the ground until one of them fell unconscious, so it pretty much was all aerial. Ahhh...well run! A couple things that won't alter the outcome much. 1) Looks like you forgot Spell resistance for Azriel. Doesn't matter as all that would happen is she takes less damage. 2) I may be wrong, but I think trip attacks still deal damage. 3) You said something about tattoos...um, did you mean the powerstones? If so, where are the rules saying that? I thought it was assumed stones with higher CLs use augmentation. Maybe I've just been away too long... Thanks! And again, well run! Air combat was always my least favorite part of pitlording. |
| TelinArtho10-31-05, 12:43 PM | Trip attacks don't deal damage themselves (but if you have the improved trip feat you do get a free attack when you successfully trip - perhaps that is what you are thinking of). Tattoos cannot be augmented or raised to a higher ML without credit cost. Powerstones can be raised to a higher ML at the regular cost. If they are augmented, for each 2 extra power points included, it raises the PL of the stone by one. For instance, a Powerstone of Vigor (ML3) is 75gp, an Augmented Powerstone of Vigor (ML3) is 150gp. Good? /d |
| TelinArtho10-31-05, 01:09 PM | Apparently this message was glossed over and missed by the vast majority: @Pitlords I am taking a short vacation from Pitlording for the next 2 weeks. I have some stuff to cool down in RL, first. I don't want to hurt other gladiators by balancing their fights on top of my other stuff. I've sent a PM to Huan and Pitlords to ask about the status and offered to take both of Huan's fights. If Huan gets back to me, and sends the tactics, I will get to them right away. Otherwise, if the involved players send me the tactics by tomorrow - I'll get started on them tomorrow (after the remaining fight that I have). |
| Mind Rogue10-31-05, 01:33 PM | Ahhh...well run! A couple things that won't alter the outcome much. 1) Looks like you forgot Spell resistance for Azriel. Doesn't matter as all that would happen is she takes less damage. 2) I may be wrong, but I think trip attacks still deal damage. 3) You said something about tattoos...um, did you mean the powerstones? If so, where are the rules saying that? I thought it was assumed stones with higher CLs use augmentation. Maybe I've just been away too long... Thanks! And again, well run! Air combat was always my least favorite part of pitlording. 1.) Yep. I forgot this, but it doesn't affect the outcome. 2.) Nope. Trip attacks do not still deal damage. However, Improved Trip gets you another attack to make up for it. 3.) Yep, I ment powerstones. Your tactics listed tatoos, but your equipment definitely said and listed powerstones. However, if you look at the rules thread, you'll see that higher ML powerstones and tatoos are priced at higher power levels. |
| NiQil10-31-05, 02:26 PM | Apparently this message was glossed over and missed by the vast majority: I've sent a PM to Huan and Pitlords to ask about the status and offered to take both of Huan's fights. If Huan gets back to me, and sends the tactics, I will get to them right away. Otherwise, if the involved players send me the tactics by tomorrow - I'll get started on them tomorrow (after the remaining fight that I have). Forwarding tactics via PM...just in case. |
| Snommelp10-31-05, 02:46 PM | Sure. As per the combat actions section of the SRD, he only loses his dexterity bonus to AC when running; not his dexterity bonus in general. Roll: 18 (http://krisinchico.brinkster.net/searchroll.asp?username=Sam#162483) I'll edit this into the fight when I get a chance; but probably not today as I have to finish my Research paper and my take-home math mid-term. Right, so 18 vs. DC 12. Sam wins. Really, Torgirr's only hope was a 4 or lower. That's an 80% chance of success for Sam. The odds were with him. Now to go level him up! Sam's ECL 5! Woohoo! |
| TheMagister10-31-05, 02:53 PM | Right, so 18 vs. DC 12. Sam wins. Really, Torgirr's only hope was a 4 or lower. That's an 80% chance of success for Sam. The odds were with him. Now to go level him up! Sam's ECL 5! Woohoo! Yeah, I drew two tough fights this week. I don't like Sdentch's chances vs. that Djinni, either... TM |
| Snommelp10-31-05, 03:02 PM | Yeah, I drew two tough fights this week. I don't like Sdentch's chances vs. that Djinni, either... TM I don't know. I mean, we were both sure that Sam would beat Sdentch when they fought, right? But Sdentch got the better of a foe that should have had her beat. Don't give up hope against that Djinni. You know, I think that every time Sam's faced a half-giant in the arena, he's lost... very peculiar... maybe I'm just too cocky... |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-31-05, 03:26 PM | Has anyone seen Luni around? I haven't seen him since like tuesday or wednesday. He has three fights, two of which are mine. -ToK |
| Snommelp10-31-05, 03:29 PM | Has anyone seen Luni around? I haven't seen him since like tuesday or wednesday. He has three fights, two of which are mine. -ToK Not just three fights; all of the fights for the ECL 6 league. And no, I haven't seen Luni. |
| TelinArtho10-31-05, 03:31 PM | Not just three fights; all of the fights for the ECL 6 league. And no, I haven't seen Luni. Go figure - I always assumed Luni was a woman - can't say why though - so don't read too much into it. Anyway Luni has 2 of my fights too... granted one's an easy one that will probably be over in 3 rounds... 2 of which are Aquin laughing over Grik... |
| TheMagister10-31-05, 03:39 PM | Yeah, I sent Iced a PM about Sdentch's fight...I'm not gonna be here Tuesday to see how it comes out. =( Telin, will you look that fight over when it comes out? I'll be gone from the boards for like, 10-11 days... TM |
| TelinArtho10-31-05, 03:57 PM | No prob... |
| Huan10-31-05, 05:04 PM | Well, even though I said I wanted no fights for this week, after hearing of the Pitlord drought, I decided to take one for the team and do it this week anyway... (and thank you, TelinArtho for offering to relieve me) Bare-bones of Kelstat vs Ivelios (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7640105) is up. Short Version: Fighting against a veritable zoo is never fun... but not impossible either. Bare-bones of Bounty Hunter vs Perius (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7640180) is also up. Short Version: When both combatants have the SAME AC and the SAME attack modifier... it becomes the fun game of Who's-Lucky-With-The-Dice. |
| Ravashack10-31-05, 05:08 PM | And that is why my tactics explicitly stated that I wanted Perius to try to refocus at least once before refiring. /sigh... Thanks for running the fight Huan. I just really wish -most- people would *stop* ignoring "please refocus". |
| NiQil10-31-05, 05:28 PM | Well, even though I said I wanted no fights for this week, after hearing of the Pitlord drought, I decided to take one for the team and do it this week anyway... (and thank you, TelinArtho for offering to relieve me) Bare-bones of Kelstat vs Ivelios (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7640105) is up. Short Version: Fighting against a veritable zoo is never fun... but not impossible either. Bare-bones of Bounty Hunter vs Perius (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7640180) is also up. Short Version: When both combatants have the SAME AC and the SAME attack modifier... it becomes the fun game of Who's-Lucky-With-The-Dice. @ Huan: Can you please edit in the 60 gp in craft earnings for Keltsat into the fight summary when you get a chance? |
| King Uther10-31-05, 06:26 PM | Tan vs Donak (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7640083&postcount=574) is up. Definitely the fight of the week. So close. |
| Usurpator10-31-05, 06:27 PM | The Son of the Wind vs. the Spawn of the Sea is up (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7640803) Skip to round 10 for the critical moment of the fight. |
| King Uther10-31-05, 06:54 PM | Delaria vs Kalarthus (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7611781&postcount=558) has been edited. Kalarthus was able to use Mage Armor. Delaria was able to use ranged attacks. Due to Delaria not running, the killing blow did not hit, and the next round Delaria crit'd. Invisible Castle does not lie. |
| Mal-210-31-05, 07:15 PM | Tan vs Donak (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7640083&postcount=574) is up. Definitely the fight of the week. So close. Thanks for running the fight King Uther. I think I see a mistake though. Donak's AC with Force Screen should only be a 23, not a 24. It doesn't stack with the shield bonus from the buckler. I should have noted that in my tactics, and didn't think to do so. With that, Tan shoulde be able to hit me with his dagger in Round 13. |
| King Uther10-31-05, 07:31 PM | I was going quickly and didn't notice the buckler. He did hit you for [1] damage. That means it will become a contest for who will bleed out first. I'll use the die roller for it, right here: Round 25: Tan = -5 Donak = -1 Round 26: Tan: 69 (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=177238) Donak: 28 (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=177238) Round 27: Tan:91 (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=177239) Donak: 13 (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=177239) Round 28: Tan: 56 (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=177240) Donak: 23 (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=177240) Round 29: Tan: 34 (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=177241) Donak: 8 (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=177241) success Donak wins at -4hp, with Tan at -9. |
| Macbrea10-31-05, 07:38 PM | Humorous, the crowd stares at the dieing dog, halfling and elf. They cannot figure out who is the winner. The judges wait 1 minute and check pulses? |
| King Uther10-31-05, 07:54 PM | Well, essentially in this case Donak would win because he has -4 when he stabilizes, whereas Tan is already at -9. He could bleed out, he could stabilize, but either way Donak wins the fight. In the case of a tie, the lower initiative person would indeed win. |
| Tellish_of_Ket10-31-05, 08:09 PM | Well, essentially in this case Donak would win because he has -4 when he stabilizes, whereas Tan is already at -9. He could bleed out, he could stabilize, but either way Donak wins the fight. In the case of a tie, the lower initiative person would indeed win. Actually, if i can be the rules monger for a second. Even at -9 he would still have to try and stabilize. If by some good fortune Tan stabilizes at -9, then then they continue to bleed out on an hourly scale as opposed to a round by round basis. It's possible Tan returns to concsiousness before Donak. It would then be possible for him to either heal himself, or peform a CDG, in which case Donak would die, before Tan bleeds out at -10. -ToK |
| nightbanegod10-31-05, 08:55 PM | WHOO HOOO ... 2 fighters and 2 victories this week ... this is a good week.... horseman up for challenge in the ECL 4-5 bracket and bounty hunter will just chill for now... workin him in random fights as is |
| Huan10-31-05, 10:15 PM | @ Huan: Can you please edit in the 60 gp in craft earnings for Keltsat into the fight summary when you get a chance? Done. |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-01-05, 07:04 AM | Level 6 GrikECL5 (Snommelp) challenges Aquin (TelinArtho): Luni Balbanes, Avatar of Life (King Uther) vs Krunch (Tellish of Ket): Luni Kraegin (TelinArtho) vs The Pale-Rider (Tellish of Ket): Luni Hello? Anybody home? LOL -ToK |
| TelinArtho11-01-05, 12:49 PM | Level 6 GrikECL5 (Snommelp) challenges Aquin (TelinArtho): Luni Balbanes, Avatar of Life (King Uther) vs Krunch (Tellish of Ket): Luni Kraegin (TelinArtho) vs The Pale-Rider (Tellish of Ket): Luni Hello? Anybody home? LOL Me too? I'm still working on the Mrs. Buttmunch and Griff fight. Should be up soon. /d |
| TelinArtho11-01-05, 12:52 PM | Can a fall be a CDG? Or how about this, if someone is flying and they are put to sleep (via spell), they start to fall - falling x feet (much greater than 50ft) per round. Now, if the person falls asleep, is the person right next to that falling individual granted a full round of actions before the person falls? I guess my question is - can a person do a CDG on the sleeping falling person before they hit the ground? [Iced and Sloisel need not apply to this question - since there is inherent bias...] |
| NiQil11-01-05, 01:02 PM | Can a fall be a CDG? Or how about this, if someone is flying and they are put to sleep (via spell), they start to fall - falling x feet (much greater than 50ft) per round. Now, if the person falls asleep, is the person right next to that falling individual granted a full round of actions before the person falls? I guess my question is - can a person do a CDG on the sleeping falling person before they hit the ground? [Iced and Sloisel need not apply to this question - since there is inherent bias...] First, if they have some way to CDG the person in midair, I know of no rule prohibiting midair CDG's. However, depending on how the person is flying to begin with, that might have some bearing on what happens. For instance, if they fall at normal rates, could ground impact wake them up? They would take damage from the fall, sure....but that could have a bearing on the situation. If they are using the Fly spell, which is the most common way to fly....bear in mind The subject can fly at a speed of 60 feet (or 40 feet if it wears medium or heavy armor, or if it carries a medium or heavy load). It can ascend at half speed and descend at double speed, and its maneuverability is good. Using a fly spell requires only as much concentration as walking, so the subject can attack or cast spells normally. The subject of a fly spell can charge but not run, and it cannot carry aloft more weight than its maximum load, plus any armor it wears. Should the spell duration expire while the subject is still aloft, the magic fails slowly. The subject floats downward 60 feet per round for 1d6 rounds. If it reaches the ground in that amount of time, it lands safely. If not, it falls the rest of the distance, taking 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet of fall. Since dispelling a spell effectively ends it, the subject also descends in this way if the fly spell is dispelled, but not if it is negated by an antimagic field. Arcane Focus: A wing feather from any bird. ....loss of flight while sleeping is not inherently mentioned, so could be up for debate. You can certainly walk when you sleep, so sleepflying is not out of the question. I would probably rule that they lose flight as well....but it's a gray area, based on the spell description. |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-01-05, 01:03 PM | Can a fall be a CDG? Or how about this, if someone is flying and they are put to sleep (via spell), they start to fall - falling x feet (much greater than 50ft) per round. Now, if the person falls asleep, is the person right next to that falling individual granted a full round of actions before the person falls? I guess my question is - can a person do a CDG on the sleeping falling person before they hit the ground? [Iced and Sloisel need not apply to this question - since there is inherent bias...] No. A person will fall the full distance and hit the ground. The person at floor level wouldn't even get an AoO as falling is not considered movement (i think rules of the game reviewed it). And besides that CDG is a full round action, so right there alone that is impossible. **EDIT About NiQil's response. You don't fall from magical flight if you are slept. The magic that keeps you boyant remains, and is not dispelled by the character falling asleep. -ToK |
| TelinArtho11-01-05, 01:15 PM | Mrs. Buttmunch vs Griff Mythral (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7646246) Obviously with the recent words that someone who is sleeping isn't falling when using the fly spell changes things. Griff will still almost certainly win - and just use a few less expendables in this case. I'll edit it once I get the chance. |
| TelinArtho11-01-05, 01:24 PM | Fixed. |
| TelinArtho11-01-05, 01:55 PM | Okay - now that all my fights are done with, there are a few missing fights: Level 5 Sdentch (TheMagister) vs 1 Djinni Genie [Monster]: Iced Level 6 GrikECL5 (Snommelp) challenges Aquin (TelinArtho): Luni Balbanes, Avatar of Life (King Uther) vs Krunch (Tellish of Ket): Luni Kraegin (TelinArtho) vs The Pale-Rider (Tellish of Ket): Luni Level 7 Talari Leafwhisperer (Luni) miniquests for a new animal companion: King Uther I will take any and all where I am able to receive both sets of tactics. Since it is fairly late in the day (for me to get to this anyway), some may be rather close to the deadline. |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-01-05, 02:54 PM | I'll take the Kraegin match...send me tactics ASAP! -ToK |
| TelinArtho11-01-05, 02:59 PM | Would be fun wouldn't it? Still -rules are rules... (I see in order for you to feel confident about winning, you need to run the fight yourself eh? :P ) Still - if you wanted me to take the Krunch match and King Uther was around - I'd take that one. |
| Myrridin11-01-05, 03:00 PM | It appears that I was within 30' for my last set of attacks. Point Blank Shot gives me an additional +1 to Hit/Damage at that range. Means my attack that hits AC 19, actually hits AC 20, and my min damage takes down Delaria. Can I get a ruling/look at this? |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-01-05, 03:06 PM | Would be fun wouldn't it? Still -rules are rules... (I see in order for you to feel confident about winning, you need to run the fight yourself eh? :P ) Still - if you wanted me to take the Krunch match and King Uther was around - I'd take that one. Well, actually, a very long time ago, i did run my own fight. I actually more than once. Once was against a good friend of mine though. We ran it tabletop at his place on a weekend. I am very objective. Everything was according to tactics. -ToK |
| TelinArtho11-01-05, 03:06 PM | Delaria vs Kalarthus (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7611781&postcount=558) has been edited. Kalarthus was able to use Mage Armor. Delaria was able to use ranged attacks. Due to Delaria not running, the killing blow did not hit, and the next round Delaria crit'd. Invisible Castle does not lie. @Myrridin - you did get to use Mage Armor - it just looks like King Uther did not edit in all of the changes (just the result). As to whether a 19 would've hit because I was too close - that doesn't happen because I stopped running after you when it was apparent I couldn't catch up to you. Obvsiously, I don't have the coordinates - but frankly, if I was within 30ft - I could've just as easily moved into melee than attack at range (so it is clear to me that I must be beyond 40ft - range for my charge). /d |
| TelinArtho11-01-05, 03:08 PM | Well, actually, a very long time ago, i did run my own fight. I actually more than once. Once was against a good friend of mine though. We ran it tabletop at his place on a weekend. I am very objective. Everything was according to tactics. -ToK I actually wouldn't have a problem with it myself (Kraegin's record shows that he doesn't care much whether he wins or loses...). If you are able to run the fight impartially - and link all of the rolls to Invisible castle and post your tactics ahead of time - I have no problem with you running it (or vice versa I might add). /d |
| Myrridin11-01-05, 03:14 PM | Unless there's some obstruction that would prevent a charge. Otherwise, there's no reason for me to have to 5' step backwards. If I'm not in close range, that's fine. I just didn't see the reason to step back. Also, the light x-bow has an 80' range increment, and the composite longbow has a 110' range increment. Does this impact any of the shots that were fired, if Delaria is at a -2 range increment penalty? If not, I can give this up...just not happy with the liberal editing of using items not mentioned. |
| King Uther11-01-05, 03:50 PM | How did I miss that? I didn't realize I was running a Talari Leafwhisper fight for an animal companion. Hmmmm....I wonder what kind of animal it is? I would be delighted to run it if I could get some info on it. |
| TelinArtho11-01-05, 03:55 PM | Luni hasn't been around in a few days - kind of just disappeared right after pairings as far as I can tell. I don't think it would be all that far-fetched to just extend it a week, waiting for Luni to show up. /d |
| King Uther11-01-05, 04:08 PM | @Myrridin Well, essentially my thinking was this: 1. You wanted to use Mage Armor 2. Despite not mentioning ranged combat, clearly Delaria cannot reach you, and therefore she has to fire from range via her light crossbow at a +3 bonus. I didn't do a total edit, as at the time I had little time. If it will make both parties feel better, I will go over and track the distance between you two, just to make sure there were no ranged penalties to apply. |
| Snommelp11-01-05, 04:24 PM | Luni hasn't been around in a few days - kind of just disappeared right after pairings as far as I can tell. I don't think it would be all that far-fetched to just extend it a week, waiting for Luni to show up. /d What's this? Is Aquin getting cold feet? |
| TelinArtho11-01-05, 04:25 PM | not at all - I was referring to Talari's miniquest. Aquin will crush Grik when the time comes - even if the fight has to be postponed because no one stood up to ref the match... |
| TelinArtho11-01-05, 04:34 PM | ToK and I just did the fight for Kraegin vs Pale Rider via IM and Invisible Castle. I officially give the fight my approval - despite my horrible luck and bad tactics... |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-01-05, 04:40 PM | ToK and I just did the fight for Kraegin vs Pale Rider via IM and Invisible Castle. I officially give the fight my approval - despite my horrible luck and bad tactics... Started off with really good luck. You won initiative. And that's about where it ended, and to be honest, the dice didn't really play a HUGE factor in it all that much. Melf's only needed a 4 or better to hit you, so i can't say i got lucky with all my shots. But one point of luck for Pale was a DC 15 ride check to dodge the spiritual weapon the round it came out. After that it was just watching you slowly dissolve into a goop on the arena floor. Thanks for the endorsement. And just so everyone knows, i posted my tacitcs on the board first without looking at his. *EDIT - acid dmg was a bit above average though. -ToK |
| King Uther11-01-05, 04:47 PM | Every cleric needs Reists Energy. |
| TelinArtho11-01-05, 04:56 PM | You know - I was going to say it would be fairly expensive since it is a third level spell... and then I checked and found it was 2nd level... Ugh. Lesson learned I guess - there's still plenty of weaknesses for Kraegin - it just doesn't matter much to me how long it takes to get him to his destination (and that's a good thing with his 6 losses vs 2 wins...) |
| Myrridin11-01-05, 04:56 PM | *shrug* Whatever. I just hate it when a fight gets changed to such an extent. Just let me know so I can edit in the loss, if that's how it plays out. |
| Usurpator11-01-05, 05:00 PM | About NiQil's response. You don't fall from magical flight if you are slept. The magic that keeps you boyant remains, and is not dispelled by the character falling asleep. -ToK I don't agree Tellish: Using a fly spell requires only as much concentration as walking, so the subject can attack or cast spells normally This gives me the impression that you have to consciously and actively fly, a bit like Superman does. And also why it makes sense you get reduced speed for wearing heavy armor. If you're asleep you can't walk, and similarly will be unable to fly and fall. Sleeping persons fall prone, flying persons crash. |
| NiQil11-01-05, 05:05 PM | I don't agree Tellish: This gives me the impression that you have to consciously and actively fly, a bit like Superman does. And also why it makes sense you get reduced speed for wearing heavy armor. If you're asleep you can't walk, and similarly will be unable to fly and fall. Sleeping persons fall prone, flying persons crash. Can you kindly point me to a source that says sleeping person's fall prone? Not saying you are wrong...just that I have never seen that anywhere. |
| Sunwolf11-01-05, 05:08 PM | @ToK Re Kreagin and Pale Fight Pale also used a scroll of SM III (to counterspell) |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-01-05, 05:11 PM | @ToK Re Kreagin and Pale Fight Pale also used a scroll of SM III (to counterspell) My bad. -ToK |
| Usurpator11-01-05, 05:16 PM | Can you kindly point me to a source that says sleeping person's fall prone? Not saying you are wrong...just that I have never seen that anywhere. I don't have to. There is also no rule that a person can breathe through his nose, or that he cannot see when he closes his eyes, or that one can see if a person is bleeding, or that human blood is red, or that you need two feet to walk etc. etc.. There is no need for such rules since common sense should be sufficient in such cases. If a horse falls asleep I would let it stand, since horses usually sleep upright. If a human falls asleep he would fall prone, since humans rarely sleep upright. |
| King Uther11-01-05, 05:26 PM | Dang it. Kalarthus vs Delaria has become....interesting. Due to his superior movement, Kalarthus is able to move out of LOS of 2 of Delaria's attacks, since she has to load the x-bow. So Kalarthus is able to get 3 attacks of before being killed. Statistically speaking, Kalarthus will invariably win. Here are the rolls, as well as how the match broke down: Round 16: Kalarthus moves into LOS, fires. Delaria loads and fires. Round 17: Kalarthus fires, missing, then moves out of LOS Delaria loads and moves into LOS Round 18: Kalarthus fires, missing, then moves away Delaria fires, missing as per her Round 17 attack Round 19: Kalarthus fires, killing Delaria (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=177808) . (Attack: 16+7=23 Damage: 9) Sorry I wasn't detailed enough to get this right the second time, and too rigid to allow ranged attacks the first. These are the true rewards. Kalarthus wins, gaining +1125xp/gp Delaria does not win, gaining 225 gp/xp |
| Usurpator11-01-05, 05:29 PM | @Tellish, Thank you for running the Aramur vs. Dargain fight. My tactic was a bit boring perhaps, especially with Waywreth writing in his tactics that he would completely ignore my warhorse. But I became a bit more careful since I had two losses in a row last week. My apologies also to Waywreth for the risk-averse tactic. I do have one question though, you said you cannot use Improved Trip with Knockdown, but I don't understand why you think that. Neither Knockdown or Improved Trip is a use-activated ability (to use Magic the Gathering terms) but they are triggered abilities (like Cleave) in the style of: when condition A occurs you get option B. The triggering condition of Knockdown is 10+ damage in melee, the option received is a free trip attack. The triggering condition of Improved Trip is a succesful trip attack in melee combat, the option gained is an immediate extra melee attack. You don't have to 'use' a feat for it, you gain the benefits automatically if you meet the conditions. |
| NiQil11-01-05, 05:31 PM | I don't have to. There is also no rule that a person can breathe through his nose, or that he cannot see when he closes his eyes, or that one can see if a person is bleeding, or that human blood is red, or that you need two feet to walk etc. etc.. There is no need for such rules since common sense should be sufficient in such cases. If a horse falls asleep I would let it stand, since horses usually sleep upright. If a human falls asleep he would fall prone, since humans rarely sleep upright. The problem with that argument is that humans quite often sleepwalk. And since flying (per the spell) takes as much concentration as walking, there is no reason, using your logic, that they cannot sleepfly. |
| TelinArtho11-01-05, 05:36 PM | Dang it. Kalarthus vs Delaria has become....interesting. Due to his superior movement, Kalarthus is able to move out of LOS of 2 of Delaria's attacks, since she has to load the x-bow. So Kalarthus is able to get 3 attacks of before being killed. Statistically speaking, Kalarthus will invariably win. Here are the rolls, as well as how the match broke down: Round 16: Kalarthus moves into LOS, fires. Delaria loads and fires. Round 17: Kalarthus fires, missing, then moves out of LOS Delaria loads and moves into LOS Round 18: Kalarthus fires, missing, then moves away Delaria fires, missing as per her Round 17 attack Round 19: Kalarthus fires, killing Delaria (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=177808) . (Attack: 16+7=23 Damage: 9) Sorry I wasn't detailed enough to get this right the second time, and too rigid to allow ranged attacks the first. These are the true rewards. Kalarthus wins, gaining +1125xp/gp Delaria does not win, gaining 225 gp/xp No worries King - I'll just go back and edit Delaria again... Any chances you'll get in the finishing touches on the Dragoncicle quest? Daeren's got a lot of updating to do and I'd like to have as much time to do it as possible. Thanks /d |
| Usurpator11-01-05, 05:38 PM | The problem with that argument is that humans quite often sleepwalk. And since flying (per the spell) takes as much concentration as walking, there is no reason, using your logic, that they cannot sleepfly. Quite often? As in more than 50% of the cases? Humans rarely sleepwalk. And I don't think I have seen any sleepwalking humans in this arena yet, actually I haven't seen them in any game I have ever been in or witnessed. Here every Pitlord has them remain completely motionless, as common sense would dictate. I don't think they would sleepfly either. Levitate would work, Fly won't. You mean that if I have one of my characters cast sleep on a wizard's hawk familiar you will just let if fly on if it fails its save? Pardon me NiQil, but your logic appears a bit crooked in this case. |
| King Uther11-01-05, 05:39 PM | I already put in the rewards. I'll begin the task of roleplaying it up tonight. We have some good RPing to do, on both of your quests, and now I don't have any fights/quests to worry about, which frees me up to make things fun from the RP standpoint. |
| NiQil11-01-05, 05:47 PM | Quite often? As in more than 50% of the cases? Humans rarely sleepwalk. And I don't think I have seen any sleepwalking humans in this arena yet, actually I haven't seen them in any game I have ever been in or witnessed. Here every Pitlord has them remain completely motionless, as common sense would dictate. I don't think they would sleepfly either. Levitate would work, Fly won't. You mean that if I have one of my characters cast sleep on a wizard's hawk familiar you will just let if fly on if it fails its save? Pardon me NiQil, but your logic appears a bit crooked in this case. Fly off? No...because natural flying is different from flying via the fly spell. Apples and oranges. My point, however, is that you can't apply real-world logic to a spell effect. The spell gives no indication that you lose your flight when asleep. I know of no listing for sleep in any source that says you fall prone when sleeping. Is it logical by real-world standards? Absolutely. But it's not mentioned in the system anywhere. Since it is *possible to sleepwalk, then obviously walking doesn't require much concentration. Hence the reason it is *possible to sleep in midair (which is technically flying). |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-01-05, 06:03 PM | The triggering condition of Knockdown is 10+ damage in melee, the option received is a free trip attack. The triggering condition of Improved Trip is a succesful trip attack in melee combat, the option gained is an immediate extra melee attack. You don't have to 'use' a feat for it, you gain the benefits automatically if you meet the conditions. I agree with both those statements. But what you were trying to do, and maybe i mis-spoke, was that when you dealt 10+ dmg to your opponent, and then subsequently tripped them, you were expecting another free attack because you possess improved trip. That is wrong. If that's not what you mean, then my bad for interpreting it that way. If i didn't explain it properly also, then my bad again...that's what i meant. -ToK |
| Usurpator11-01-05, 06:03 PM | Fly off? No...because natural flying is different from flying via the fly spell. Apples and oranges. My point, however, is that you can't apply real-world logic to a spell effect. The spell gives no indication that you lose your flight when asleep. I know of no listing for sleep in any source that says you fall prone when sleeping. Is it logical by real-world standards? Absolutely. But it's not mentioned in the system anywhere. Since it is *possible to sleepwalk, then obviously walking doesn't require much concentration. Hence the reason it is *possible to sleep in midair (which is technically flying). Really NiQil, you are getting a bit silly. The concentration part is a clear indication. You cannot walk while asleep, ergo you cannot fly while asleep. Flying is a conscious effort, if you cannot make the conscious effort, you fall. You are applying real world logic all the time when you Pitlord. Okay, I am trying for an example that may cause you to think about it some more: Stay in Saddle: You can react instantly to try to avoid falling when your mount rears or bolts unexpectedly or when you take damage. This usage does not take an action. If someone falls from the saddle, are they prone in your opinion, or do they fall standing up? |
| Tellish_of_Ket11-01-05, 06:10 PM | Really NiQil, you are getting a bit silly. The concentration part is a clear indication. You cannot walk while asleep, ergo you cannot fly while asleep. Flying is a conscious effort, if you cannot make the conscious effort, you fall. You are applying real world logic all the time when you Pitlord. Okay, I am trying for an example that may cause you to think about it some more: If someone falls from the saddle, are they prone in your opinion, or do they fall standing up? Just my opinion, i believe a person held/slept would still stay aloft while flying. You are magically boyuant and the "no more effort than wakling" is simply flavour text. Otherwise they would say something like "if you are disabled, knocked unconcious, etc.. you fall". -ToK |
| Usurpator11-01-05, 06:12 PM | I agree with both those statements. But what you were trying to do, and maybe i mis-spoke, was that when you dealt 10+ dmg to your opponent, and then subsequently tripped them, you were expecting another free attack because you possess improved trip. That is wrong. If that's not what you mean, then my bad for interpreting it that way. If i didn't explain it properly also, then my bad again...that's what i meant. -ToK I did expect that. You say that's wrong, but don't say why it's wrong. A. 10+ damage in melee: gain free trip attack B. Make the gained trip attack (melee touch attack etc.) C. Opposed trip roll if trip attacks hits: gain +4 from improved trip on roll D. Win roll: opponent tripped: gain free attack from Improved Trip. E. Make free immediate melee attack. What you say is like, you cannot use Cleave because you used Power Attack when you hit that guy. Cleave's trigger has nothing to do with power attack and is totally separate from it, just as Improved Trips trigger is totally separate from Knockdown's trigger. If you say that Knockdown is not entirely balanced when gaining an extra free attack if tripping someone, then I can agree with you. By the rules, I cannot imagine how not to get a Trip attack. Improved Trip gives you an immediate free attack if you trip someone with a trip attack. And that is what you do with Knockdown. I really don't see how you can read it any other way. |
| SoulLord11-01-05, 06:18 PM | I did expect that. You say that's wrong, but don't say why it's wrong. A. 10+ damage in melee: gain free trip attack B. Make the gained trip attack (melee touch attack etc.) C. Opposed trip roll if trip attacks hits: gain +4 from improved trip on roll D. Win roll: opponent tripped: gain free attack from Improved Trip. E. Make free immediate melee attack. What you say is like, you cannot use Cleave because you used Power Attack when you hit that guy. Cleave's trigger has nothing to do with power attack and is totally separate from it, just as Improved Trips trigger is totally separate from Knockdown's trigger. If you say that Knockdown is not entirely balanced when gaining an extra free attack if tripping someone, then I can agree with you. By the rules, I cannot imagine how not to get a Trip attack. Improved Trip gives you an immediate free attack if you trip someone with a trip attack. And that is what you do with Knockdown. I really don't see how you can read it any other way. Because it's in the errata and it specifically states that you don't get an extra attack from improved trip due to knockdown. |
| Usurpator11-01-05, 06:19 PM | Just my opinion, i believe a person held/slept would still stay aloft while flying. You are magically boyuant and the "no more effort than wakling" is simply flavour text. Otherwise they would say something like "if you are disabled, knocked unconcious, etc.. you fall". -ToK I used to think that too. And it certainly did work that way in earlier editions: then you indeed got a kind of magical buoyancy that gave you perfect maneuverability. But now? Especially the fact that you get less speed in heavy armor made me change my opinion. It's certainly not the weight of the armor making you fly at reduced speed, it's because flying (like walking) actually takes effort, conscious mental and physical effort. If you don't make the effort, for whatever reason, you fall. At least, that is my opinion, supported by the piece you think is flavor text. Maybe it is flavor text, who knows, but it does make more sense to me if it's not flavor text. And if it doesn't work that way, I want my money back for my pearl of brainlock ;) |
| Usurpator11-01-05, 06:21 PM | Because it's in the errata and it specifically states that you don't get an extra attack from improved trip due to knockdown. Best argument I've heard all day. :) No I'll have to check the errata. EDIT: which errata exactly? |
| SoulLord11-01-05, 06:43 PM | Sword & fist Errata page 4 that is where the feat first appeared. |
| Macbrea11-01-05, 07:08 PM | The sleepwalking arguement doesn't fly in 3.5 rules. I am sorry, I sing in the shower that doesn't make me a master bard. So, given the rules of the game: "Using a fly spell requires only as much concentration as walking" may sound like flavor text but it isn't. It is important to check what effects result from unconsiousness. If you look up unconsiousness under the status effects you will discover: "Knocked out and helpless". Definition of "helpless" appears to be "A helpless target is treated as having a Dexterity of 0." The effects of having a 0 Dexterity in 3.5 are "Dexterity 0 means that the character cannot move at all. He stands motionless, rigid, and helpless." This seems to imply that you cannot walk and therefore are unable to move. Assuming that "Knocked out" means your currently unable to concentrate on walking and being with a Dex of 0 means you are unable to actually walk. This means you should float to the ground. As you fail to maintain your "good manuverability" if you where a winged creature you would plumet to the ground quickly. But because of the nature of the spell on you you glide nicely. |
| TelinArtho11-01-05, 09:22 PM | Thankfully the result of the fight doesn't hinge on this argument about sleeping and flying as Mrs. Buttmunch will lose either way - though I'm sure Griff would appreciate it the way it is currently ruled. If a conclusive result is found on this matter overnight, I will see it in the morning and apply any needed changes to the fight then. /d |
| KerlanRayne11-02-05, 05:43 AM | On the Improved Trip - Knockdown thing, here's the reasoning. You do 10+ damage and get a free trip attempt. Trip is successfull. now to Improved Trip. If you trip an opponent in melee combat, you immediately get a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt. See that last part? If you hadn't used the attack to trip you would have nothing because the attack could ONLY be used to trip. So you don't get the free attack. KerlanRayne |
| TelinArtho11-02-05, 09:37 AM | So no one has seen Luni eh? Guess Aquin vs Grik is going to have to wait until next week - what a bummer. Grik is probably peeing in his pants waiting to get slaughtered... /d |
| Snommelp11-02-05, 10:04 AM | So many comments about my character being afraid... perhaps you are trying to divert attention from your own character's fear? Grik is not afraid of Aquin. Grik is not afraid of anything. Sometimes it would be better for him if he was afraid, but that's what happens with an orc barbarian. Stupidity in the face of danger. |
| TelinArtho11-02-05, 10:14 AM | Aquin has no fear. He does give respect to 2 classes of opponents however: 1. Someone who can make more attacks, more effectively than he can. 2. Someone who can wield magic to make Aquin's attacks ineffective. |
| Book511-02-05, 10:49 AM | Well, essentially in this case Donak would win because he has -4 when he stabilizes, whereas Tan is already at -9. He could bleed out, he could stabilize, but either way Donak wins the fight. In the case of a tie, the lower initiative person would indeed win. WE TIED !@! AWESOME King's right. Better damage.. if Tan had been doing a d6 instead.. :D 'Course my best weapon has been popper so far. Short Sword... It's :censored: heavy!! :mad: Hm, 2000+ gp and I can get one mythril.. with acid.. TAO !..! Wins! Dragons L, L, Loose! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=518693&page=4) |