Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TelinArtho 09-19-07, 11:39 AM	Fights of the Week: September 19th Please don't edit the sheet after the deadline or you will lose the match. Rules of Gladius All that you need to know is written in the Rules of Gladius. It could be useful also to give a look to the Court Decisions Part 1 and Part 2. Please do not make fake accounts or insult the Elders. Pairings GM MindwandererB will pair the active Characters of Gladius after the deadline. Link to pairings. Make sure that your character is not in prison. Pitlording You should use the CoCo Dice Roller (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com) for the fight. If you need it, there is a nice template ready to use that will help. You could find the Battle Map Tag Generator (http://www.hwx.it/coco) for dynamic Maps very useful. You must post a link to your fight in this thread when it is complete. If you need a quick and dirty tool to calculate distances between two points (in 2-D or 3-D), this tool used to suffice until it got taken down without giving us proper notification... the Nerve Another useful link is the Quick Access tables for XP and Gold. If a fight needs to be rerun, the Pitlord has to inform the Pitlords account. He cannot react to requests from Players because the other player and the pitlord might disagree. He has no time to read the fight and the discussion. Please keep that in mind. PMs from players with rerun requests won't have an impact. Recent News and Developments Definition for "Humanoid-like" for armor has been established. Currently being discussed in the Council: Reworking credits/rewards/costs. Comments & Concerns Post any comments or concerns for this weeks fights in this thread. Be kind and courteous to your fellow posters, and don't feed the pitlords. Please remember that they do hard work and consume a lot of time to let you play. Above all, have FUN! If you have questions or comments on any of the changes, please make your posts be heard in the Council of Gladius!
Rauul 09-19-07, 05:13 PM	how are we on pitlords this week... I can take one fight if needed
templer10 09-19-07, 05:22 PM	If/when i get to roll monster fights this week - Note To Fighters - ill roll them up tommarow evening (for me - it's now 23:30 here) more or less, iam at Court all day tommarow.
Rauul 09-19-07, 05:34 PM	If/when i get to roll monster fights this week - Note To Fighters - ill roll them up tommarow evening (for me - it's now 23:30 here) more or less, iam at Court all day tommarow. T10 has been a bad bad boy?
Rauul 09-19-07, 05:40 PM	hmmm a Paladin/Rogue team in ECL 5... that could be fun...
MindWandererB 09-19-07, 05:53 PM	Pairings done. Credits Callix F2 Eamane F3 Erithmu F1 Q2 C3 lonewolf F1 Sjiggie F2 TelinArtho F4 C3 A-1 templer10 F5 A-1 whitebaron F3 MindWandererB A2 NiQil A1 Rauul F1 SauroGrenom A1 Key: F=Fight, Q=Quest, C=Campaign, A=Admin or Active Characters
Callix 09-19-07, 06:15 PM	I'll start on the dealyed fight ASAP, but I need to know if I should start the fight from scratch, or try and figure out what Taureus had done this far. FFiguring out Taureus's actions might be a bit tough, though. I think I'll start again.
TelinArtho 09-19-07, 06:18 PM	@Lonewolf - monster is rolled up. I have an alternative monster in the wings - but I don't believe I'll need it. I'm hoping to get a quick answer on it first.
whitebaron 09-19-07, 06:20 PM	I'll start on the dealyed fight ASAP, but I need to know if I should start the fight from scratch, or try and figure out what Taureus had done this far. FFiguring out Taureus's actions might be a bit tough, though. I think I'll start again. just start again, since it looks to me he did some things with grapple wrong anyway. first touch +2, then grapple attempt +10 with flurry , then another touch+grapple attempt/damage. this is nowhere to be found.
TelinArtho 09-19-07, 06:25 PM	It seems that the dragon hunters always get one fight against each other before heading out on the next dragon run... Otherwise - looks like a rough week for my characters, but we'll have to see. Expect tactics tomorrow pitlords.
lonewolf 09-19-07, 06:26 PM	@Templer: Monster for Elrick is rolled up. I believe this will be the first collossal combatant in the arena, right? :D
Rauul 09-19-07, 06:49 PM	man the roller hates Shadow this week.... on the plains in bright light.. max time between fights.... the almost totally undefeated Gakhnalak Strongjaw with cohort.... Gonna have to do some serious thinking on these tactics...
whitebaron 09-19-07, 07:11 PM	is my assumption correct, that i can use any encounter of the appropriate EL for a miniquest, independently of the corpses enoch wants to acquire or not depending on a random roll? @my fight: since i have a tight freetime-"schedule" this week, please submit your tactics asap, since i won't be home friday night. if any questions occur, i won't be able to ask them before about saturday evening, which in most cases will be too late. i'll do the week2 fight first, though. :)
Vathelokai 09-19-07, 07:25 PM	@Pitlords: Snaga is set ready for a 3-week quest, but was paired for a fight. Possible to fix? Psibeast[ECL 13] (Vathelokai) vs. Lord Lorian (templer10) and Baelin the Shadow (Malither76) : TelinArtho [Temple] [Inter-League] I'll send out tactics for this tonight. I don't think anyone has time for a seperate thread fight. @Callix: tactics forwarded for Tweak.
Rauul 09-19-07, 07:42 PM	@Sjiggie Shadow's tactics sent... PM me with any questions..
Eamane 09-19-07, 07:56 PM	@Lonewolf Monster info for Darian Thorne will be up later tonight, sorry for the brief delay but I gotta get to class.
MindWandererB 09-19-07, 08:16 PM	@Pitlords: Snaga is set ready for a 3-week quest, but was paired for a fight. Possible to fix?Grr... Snaga had a free activity posted (which you don't get with quests), and there was no mention of a questgoal or a questlord anywhere on the sheet. And questlords are supposed to PM me with details for full quests. I can't read minds, you know. If you have a questlord, let me know and I'll swap Snaga for Darian Thorne (so Eamane and lonewolf, hold off before writing tactics).
Taureus_Drakken 09-19-07, 08:17 PM	just start again, since it looks to me he did some things with grapple wrong anyway. first touch +2, then grapple attempt +10 with flurry , then another touch+grapple attempt/damage. this is nowhere to be found. I apologize if I wasn't doing it correctly...I don't really have much experience with grapple rules. I will ask for help the next time I get in a jam... ¬Taureus¬
Salrantol 09-19-07, 08:49 PM	is my assumption correct, that i can use any encounter of the appropriate EL for a miniquest, independently of the corpses enoch wants to acquire or not depending on a random roll?You are correct. For the first Ogre Mage skeleton I fought an annis hag. For the ankheg skeleton I fought an aasimar cleric.
Vathelokai 09-19-07, 09:20 PM	Grr... Snaga had a free activity posted (which you don't get with quests), and there was no mention of a questgoal or a questlord anywhere on the sheet. And questlords are supposed to PM me with details for full quests. I can't read minds, you know. If you have a questlord, let me know and I'll swap Snaga for Darian Thorne (so Eamane and lonewolf, hold off before writing tactics). :weep: That foolish questlord would be me. Sorry, B.
Vathelokai 09-19-07, 09:20 PM	I apologize if I wasn't doing it correctly...I don't really have much experience with grapple rules. I will ask for help the next time I get in a jam... ¬Taureus¬ No worries, mate.
Sjiggie 09-19-07, 09:47 PM	Tactics for Diana Valassar have been sent Tactics for Valanthe Valassar will be out tommorow. -Sjiggie
Erithmu 09-20-07, 12:08 AM	It seems that the dragon hunters always get one fight against each other before heading out on the next dragon run... Otherwise - looks like a rough week for my characters, but we'll have to see. Expect tactics tomorrow pitlords. Tell me about it ... It is fun, but I'm getting a little tired of it. Note that it is always within the context of a FFA or Team fight ...
Rauul 09-20-07, 01:09 AM	Tell me about it ... It is fun, but I'm getting a little tired of it. Note that it is always within the context of a FFA or Team fight ... Shadow would trade either of you... MWB's orc is a pain in the Arse...
Vathelokai 09-20-07, 02:47 AM	@Telin, templer, Malither Tactics for Psibeast vs Lord Lorian and Baelin called Shadow sent. Monster info for Psibeasts incessant shapeshifting sent to all parties.
Callix 09-20-07, 04:21 AM	Gwerdan "Twofist" Grummler vs Tweak is up. In a word: Hammertime.
lonewolf 09-20-07, 04:35 AM	Gwerdan "Twofist" Grummler vs Tweak is up. In a word: Hammertime. I´ve got nothing better to do than to nitpick my friends fight: Round 6&7: No need to tumble for Gwerdan since he can simply withdraw from the boar as long as he doesnt plan to attack this round anyway. That increases his speed and makes him catch up to Tweak easier. Round 8: If the Riding dog is gone(and it should be), even if Tweak breaks the charging line, Gwerdan should be able to base Tweak and thus Tweak has to withdraw instead of running or take an AoO.
Callix 09-20-07, 04:42 AM	Lonewolf: Fair enough on the comments, but if Gwerdan gets to move faster while evading the boar, Tweak gets out of her shot in round 8 and double moves away. From there, we get the same twice-around-the-garden chase, ending inevitably with the boar catching Gwerdan and running him down. I'll work on the new maps now.
lonewolf 09-20-07, 04:47 AM	Lonewolf: Fair enough on the comments, but if Gwerdan gets to move faster while evading the boar, Tweak gets out of her shot in round 8 and double moves away. From there, we get the same twice-around-the-garden chase, ending inevitably with the boar catching Gwerdan and running him down. I'll work on the new maps now. I´d wait until the actual players in that fight comment. That way you can adress their concerns(if they have some) also in one edit and dont have to do multiple edits. Your choice though.
lonewolf 09-20-07, 04:51 AM	@Lonewolf - monster is rolled up. I have an alternative monster in the wings - but I don't believe I'll need it. I'm hoping to get a quick answer on it first. Just tell me when I can start writing tactics.
Callix 09-20-07, 06:26 AM	@Sjiggie, Eamane: Tactics for Petyr and Ralein have been PM'ed. Won't say too much, but a FFA on the plains vs 2 clerics is not a nice place for someone with Hide/Move Silently +12...
templer10 09-20-07, 08:25 AM	T10 has been a bad bad boy? Actually my clients have been bad boys.... (iam a lawyer).
Macbrea 09-20-07, 09:00 AM	Silly question, I am not quite sure if I should be submitting tactics for Yorick that start with: "Since there has been 6 hours of sunlight. Yorick is down 6 con for the start of this fight. He has the ability to cast darkness at will but i forgot to prebuff it to be up all the time." Is this now the correct way to start my tactics for Yorick on bright day rolls? Or is assumed their dressing room is dark.
lonewolf 09-20-07, 09:07 AM	Silly question, I am not quite sure if I should be submitting tactics for Yorick that start with: "Since there has been 6 hours of sunlight. Yorick is down 6 con for the start of this fight. He has the ability to cast darkness at will but i forgot to prebuff it to be up all the time." Is this now the correct way to start my tactics for Yorick on bright day rolls? Or is assumed their dressing room is dark. As a pitlord, I would count that as an oversight, and would allow you to have darkness prebuffed this one time, but for future fights you´d have to prebuff it. But thats totally up to the pitlord...
Macbrea 09-20-07, 09:16 AM	Well, the question is really.. is dressing rooms assumed to be friendly to the creature that is in it. This could be seriously drastic on say an aquatic elf. Who would always be considered down x hours of constitution for any fight because the dressing room isn't assumed to have water in it.
hogarth 09-20-07, 09:24 AM	Well, the question is really.. is dressing rooms assumed to be friendly to the creature that is in it. This could be seriously drastic on say an aquatic elf. Who would always be considered down x hours of constitution for any fight because the dressing room isn't assumed to have water in it. I always assumed that gladiators are allowed to be in whatever environment they prefer until the battle actually starts. It seems dumb to require a merfolk gladiator to show up dead for every fight (since he can't hold his breath for an hour or more in the starting box).
Erithmu 09-20-07, 09:56 AM	@T10: Tactics for Erithmu sent
TelinArtho 09-20-07, 10:06 AM	@lonewolf - all set. Its just as well - I don't think the alternative could've affected you anyhow...
whitebaron 09-20-07, 10:26 AM	Gwerdan "Twofist" Grummler vs Tweak is up. In a word: Hammertime. questions/comments: a) since you clearly state that old dan's illegal, why did you allow him to use it in the first place? b) using the mount, in my tactics, mean if she's riding on it. not if its in the arena at all. but since i wouldn't close to her any other way, its fine i guess. c) in round 8, tweak moves to far in my opinion. she could have stayed within charge range, or would have to double-move.
TelinArtho 09-20-07, 01:13 PM	All my tactics have been sent in to the appropriate pitlords. I have received Kracknol's tactics and Psibeast's tactics.
Eamane 09-20-07, 01:38 PM	I've recieved 2 of the 3 tactics for the ECL 4 three-way. Is Snaga getting switched with Darian? I'd like to finish preparations for those fights one way or the other so I/Lonewolf can write tactics..
Rauul 09-20-07, 02:54 PM	@templer10.. tactics for Graashnak Vs Team of paladin and thief sent.. Pm me with any questions
MindWandererB 09-20-07, 03:46 PM	I've recieved 2 of the 3 tactics for the ECL 4 three-way. Is Snaga getting switched with Darian? I'd like to finish preparations for those fights one way or the other so I/Lonewolf can write tactics.. I have a questlord for Snaga, but not a questgoal. But I think it's safe to assume that he will eventually and up going on this quest, and the switch will take place.
templer10 09-20-07, 05:04 PM	Lonewolf - Tactics for Elrick + Army of the beasts are out - i think iam going to break the mapper But Not my fault the only way to really dmg that thing is by meleeing it to death...
templer10 09-20-07, 05:42 PM	Telin - tactics For longshot vs Krackol are out - have fun should be short and bloody.
MindWandererB 09-20-07, 05:59 PM	@Sjiggie: Tactics for Gakhnalak against the stealthy dude in the brightly lit plains are out.
Rauul 09-20-07, 06:01 PM	@Sjiggie: Tactics for Gakhnalak against the stealthy dude in the brightly lit plains are out. 4 words? Locate, beat to death?? Would just about cover it yanno
Rauul 09-20-07, 06:03 PM	Snaga (The Dread Dormammu) vs. Shugho-zact (Eamane) : Rauul Whats this about a Quest? or did i get lucky and have my fight removed?
Callix 09-20-07, 06:07 PM	Gwerdan vs Tweak Mark II is up, result changed. Turns out wasting three move actions was the best thing little Tweak could've done. Go figure. And go Dan!
MindWandererB 09-20-07, 06:12 PM	Snaga (The Dread Dormammu) vs. Shugho-zact (Eamane) : Rauul Whats this about a Quest? or did i get lucky and have my fight removed? Here's the revision: Darian Thorne (lonewolf) vs. Shugho-zact (Eamane) : Rauul [Arena]
templer10 09-20-07, 06:46 PM	Malither76 - Monster for malik has been rolled - no knowladge applies - 4 Large 4 legged creatures.
templer10 09-20-07, 06:50 PM	Macbrea - monster for yorick has been rolled - no knowladge - 2 4 legged medium creatures and 8 bipedal medium creatures.
lonewolf 09-20-07, 06:57 PM	@Rauul: Darians tactics are away. Should be an easy battle to pitlord.
Vathelokai 09-20-07, 07:12 PM	I have a questlord for Snaga, but not a questgoal. But I think it's safe to assume that he will eventually and up going on this quest, and the switch will take place. Quest is for RP, technically. Snaga's looking for spellbooks, but that's not allies or guild or PrC, etc.
Taureus_Drakken 09-20-07, 08:20 PM	@ Callix: Tactics for Ackbar sent.
Eluria 09-20-07, 08:59 PM	@Eamane: Tactics sent; sorry for the relative lateness (and length), I'm getting my behind kicked at work! Good luck, -e
Sjiggie 09-20-07, 09:40 PM	Whitebaron: Pm sent about Verren's tactics please respond Sjiggie
Vathelokai 09-20-07, 11:09 PM	Gwerdan vs Tweak Mark II is up, result changed. Turns out wasting three move actions was the best thing little Tweak could've done. Go figure. And go Dan! The dice gods have spoken. Thanks for the run.
Callix 09-21-07, 12:29 AM	Xuan Sunai vs Ackbar Stormsword is up. The roller (http://forums.gleemax.com/leaving.php?destination=http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com/dice.php%3Fsid%3D1950) should give you an idea of how one-sided it was. Still, it was relatively short, all things considered.
Eamane 09-21-07, 01:11 AM	Xuan Sunai vs Ackbar Stormsword is up. The roller (http://forums.gleemax.com/leaving.php?destination=http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com/dice.php%3Fsid%3D1950) should give you an idea of how one-sided it was. Still, it was relatively short, all things considered. Thanks for the run. I was planning on picking up a second level of ranger to get rapid-shot. But I just recently remembered that a character is limited to one swift action per round, so I'll be stuck on two shots forever, which means enhancing those two shots to be deadly would be superior to getting them off sooner in the build. An alternative gun build using psion instead of bard to qualify is around with psionic shot and is probably superior on that front, but doesn't have the knowledge skills I do should I hop up against monsters. Bard for a few levels won't damage my BAB progression and has nice skills/increase in will saves, so it's a strong option at the moment. Otherwise, I'll probably go Psion2 (Seer or Shaper, probably) for the increased damage output; plus a slight boost in speed if I pick up Skate as a power/in powerstones. I'll be faster than most low ECL mounted characters at that point. Or, if I go Egoist, Chameleon makes Xuan Sunai workable as a sniper. EDIT: In other news, Callix has been the only pitlord for Xuan Sunai so far. Tweaky, eh?
Callix 09-21-07, 01:51 AM	Not only am I Xuan's only pitlord, I had already noticed these shortcomings in Xuan, and decided to put up an alternative, using Psion to get the knowledge skills, then running to Slayer long-term. Petyr was inspired by my first encounter with Xuan, which was not as a pitlord, but as an opponent, but has a few important differences. One is being human. The other is taking Psion (Egoist) 2 to make him a passable gish. Still, it's pretty freaky that I've been involved iin all 3 of her fights. EDIT: Eamane, I just realised something about Xuan. I've put it up in the prison, but it's not a simple thing to work out. Your Favored Enemy choice is illegal: rangers can only choose their own type (Elf) if they are evil.
Eamane 09-21-07, 01:59 AM	*snip* EDIT: Eamane, I just realised something about Xuan. I've put it up in the prison, but it's not a simple thing to work out. Your Favored Enemy choice is illegal: rangers can only choose their own type (Elf) if they are evil. Yes and no. In 3.0, you'd be absolutely correct! In 3.5 however, they dropped that particular restriction. It didn't make sense to me at the time, but imho, a 'cop' style urban-ranger would need to be most adept at dealing with his own species right? So why exactly, would he need to be evil to specialize in doing so? (This is a fairly common real life practice, if you replace 'species' with 'culture/ethnicity')
Callix 09-21-07, 02:14 AM	Whoops :embarrass I'll go fix that...
whitebaron 09-21-07, 03:25 AM	@sjiggie: pm reply done, my wording was really very unclear, i hope its clear now. @callix: thnx for the changes, i know how much work that would have been. @vath: sorry for the change. but the dice gods really didnt like you in the second run :( on a relatively unimportant side note: flurry/grapple is +10/+10 two attempts for damage each round, and as a monk, i don't deal subdual damage on flurries unless i specify so (which i'd never do in the arena) --- and again, i realize i've been assuming everyone knows that using flurry is better... sorry, i really got to write that into default tactics. => mathematical hymn to flurry starts here ab=attack bonus c = chance to hit with single attack. (= (AC-AB)*0.05) m =malus you get when doing more attacks. a = amount of attacks you get when doing more attacks cnewtotal = 1-(1-c+m*0.05)a so, to make the example sound. gwerdans unarmed ab = 4, m=2, a=2 tweaks touch ac = 12 c = (12-4)*0.05 = 0.4 (40%) cnewtotal = 1-(1-0.4+2*0.05)2 => 0.51 (51%) your total chance is higher, and you have more chances to hit. => hymn to flurry ends here. @erithmu: tactics for wooly will be with you soon. i just need to recheck my wordings. ;)
Callix 09-21-07, 04:03 AM	Whitebaron: You left out two steps of analysis: 1) Attacking in a grapple takes a -4 penalty, so your attacks are at +0 or -2, giving you 0.4 hits/round without flurry, or 2*0.3=0.6 hits per round flurrying. 2) Grappling for damage gives you a +8 advantage, rather than a -2 disadvantage. However, this precludes flurrying. Calculating the probabilities is a bit tricky, but with a bit of Excel, you get 0.785 hits/round. This is better even than flurry.
whitebaron 09-21-07, 04:27 AM	Whitebaron: You left out two steps of analysis: 1) Attacking in a grapple takes a -4 penalty, so your attacks are at +0 or -2, giving you 0.4 hits/round without flurry, or 2*0.3=0.6 hits per round flurrying. 2) Grappling for damage gives you a +8 advantage, rather than a -2 disadvantage. However, this precludes flurrying. Calculating the probabilities is a bit tricky, but with a bit of Excel, you get 0.785 hits/round. This is better even than flurry. 1) due to what should that penalty incur? grapple is opposed grapple check. with flurry, this is +10. monks strikes deal lethal damage even in a grapple. She has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling. wooly: +12 grapple tweak: +4 grapple normal chance for 1 hit: 50% (since its an opposed roll + 8 difference *0.05 ) = 90% with flurry in the grapple (which can be used to deal grapple damage through opposed checks) this becomes: 96% for one hit. btw: my probalities are right. its the chance for minimum 1 hit, not the chance for 2 hits or the average number of hits. for starting a grapple, this is all that counts to me.
Eamane 09-21-07, 04:28 AM	Whitebaron: You left out two steps of analysis: 1) Attacking in a grapple takes a -4 penalty, so your attacks are at +0 or -2, giving you 0.4 hits/round without flurry, or 2*0.3=0.6 hits per round flurrying. 2) Grappling for damage gives you a +8 advantage, rather than a -2 disadvantage. However, this precludes flurrying. Calculating the probabilities is a bit tricky, but with a bit of Excel, you get 0.785 hits/round. This is better even than flurry. Neh neh? You can flurry grappling to damage (or pretty much anything else in a grapple, iirC). This makes flurry almost always better than not flurrying in a grapple.
templer10 09-21-07, 05:48 AM	ill confirm that you can flurry for damage in grapple (or pin/dmg) which is even nastier sometimes.
lonewolf 09-21-07, 05:58 AM	wooly: +12 grapple tweak: +4 grapple . Actually, Wooly has a grapple modifier of +5. Gwerdan has +12. :rolleyes:
Callix 09-21-07, 06:11 AM	Neh neh? You can flurry grappling to damage (or pretty much anything else in a grapple, iirC). This makes flurry almost always better than not flurrying in a grapple. My bad. I guess little Tweak should die even faster, then. I hope you don't mind if I don't edit the fight. Thanks for pointing out my mistake. Also, whitebaron? You started the grapple with an attack of opportunity. There was no chance to flurry. If Tweak had've gotten away when Gwedan could've made a full attack, then you would have a right to be cross. As is, you're only cleared for Irritated ;)
lonewolf 09-21-07, 07:16 AM	@Telin: Samuels tactics are sent. This could be a long fight...
whitebaron 09-21-07, 07:36 AM	My bad. I guess little Tweak should die even faster, then. I hope you don't mind if I don't edit the fight. Thanks for pointing out my mistake. Also, whitebaron? You started the grapple with an attack of opportunity. There was no chance to flurry. If Tweak had've gotten away when Gwedan could've made a full attack, then you would have a right to be cross. As is, you're only cleared for Irritated ;) yes, i'm at work at the moment and trying to figure out what to do about dentik - i even got the names of my chars wrong, which is really embarassing :D and no, why should i want you to edit the fight. just wanted to tell you, that it would have saved you some rounds. @erithmu: tactics for wooly (this time its the proper name) are on the way.
templer10 09-21-07, 09:03 AM	Malik vs fried Trogs + lizards is Done (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13856785&postcount=1333) - can someone explain to me why on earth are those sorry excuse for monsters in the ECL 9 monster list?
Sjiggie 09-21-07, 09:07 AM	Tactics for Valanthe are sent.
TelinArtho 09-21-07, 10:42 AM	yes, i'm at work at the moment and trying to figure out what to do about dentik - i even got the names of my chars wrong, which is really embarassing :D and no, why should i want you to edit the fight. just wanted to tell you, that it would have saved you some rounds. @erithmu: tactics for wooly (this time its the proper name) are on the way. Wow - one of my characters actually gave someone pause to write tactics? I swear that most of the time I'm really just running on luck to win... Good luck sir.
Korone 09-21-07, 11:41 AM	To the Mods: Yakov and Atemu are retired.
TelinArtho 09-21-07, 12:10 PM	Kracknol (SauroGrenom) vs Longshot (templer10) is up. Quick and bloody.
TelinArtho 09-21-07, 12:42 PM	Here's a bit of an oddity of a rules question: Unlike most other living creatures, an outsider does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an outsider is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don’t work on an outsider. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection to restore it to life. An outsider with the native subtype can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be. Malevolence (Su): Once per round, an ethereal ghost can merge its body with a creature on the Material Plane. This ability is similar to a magic jar spell (caster level 10th or the ghost’s Hit Dice, whichever is higher), except that it does not require a receptacle. To use this ability, the ghost must be manifested and it must try move into the target’s space; moving into the target’s space to use the malevolence ability does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The target can resist the attack with a successful Will save (DC 15 + ghost’s Cha modifier). A creature that successfully saves is immune to that same ghost’s malevolence for 24 hours, and the ghost cannot enter the target’s space. If the save fails, the ghost vanishes into the target’s body. By casting magic jar, you place your soul in a gem or large crystal (known as the magic jar), leaving your body lifeless. Then you can attempt to take control of a nearby body, forcing its soul into the magic jar. You may move back to the jar (thereby returning the trapped soul to its body) and attempt to possess another body. The spell ends when you send your soul back to your own body, leaving the receptacle empty. So - outsiders do not have a dual nature. Can they be affected by Magic Jar?
templer10 09-21-07, 01:37 PM	Kracknol (SauroGrenom) vs Longshot (templer10) is up. Quick and bloody. thanks for the Run - went as predicted really - fighting Longshot in the plains is pretty close to suicide. Btw - did you get tactics from maither76 for the lorian+baelin Vs psibeast fight? i have mine ready but didnt send yet since he didnt tell me he did.
Eamane 09-21-07, 01:47 PM	*snip* So - outsiders do not have a dual nature. Can they be affected by Magic Jar? Well. The description of magic jar is pretty specific. It seperates soul from body and then puts your soul where theirs used to be. However, you cant do that to an outsider; if you put an outsider's soul in a Magic Jar, it's body goes along well. So you have two possible outcomes from casting the Jar as I see it. 1. Nothing happens. Just doesn't work, like the various resurrection spells that mess with souls. 2. The outsider entire is trapped in the magic jar. You cant possess their body, but the spell is effective otherwise. Like an Iron Flask.
TelinArtho 09-21-07, 01:51 PM	thanks for the Run - went as predicted really - fighting Longshot in the plains is pretty close to suicide. Btw - did you get tactics from maither76 for the lorian+baelin Vs psibeast fight? i have mine ready but didnt send yet since he didnt tell me he did. I have received Baelin's tactics. I am only waiting on Lorian's tactics.
templer10 09-21-07, 01:59 PM	I have received Baelin's tactics. I am only waiting on Lorian's tactics. lol he didnt let me Know - well mine are out now. Ill be suprised if it last longer then 5 rounds - 1 way or another.
TelinArtho 09-21-07, 03:39 PM	PsibeastECL13 (Vathelokai) vs Baelin "Called the Shadow" (Malither76) and Lord Lorian (templer10) is up. Brutal fight.
templer10 09-21-07, 04:07 PM	PsibeastECL13 (Vathelokai) vs Baelin "Called the Shadow" (Malither76) and Lord Lorian (templer10) is up. Brutal fight. Thanks for the run - Men that ring of Blinking is scary with all those sneak attack dice
lonewolf 09-21-07, 04:25 PM	Here's a bit of an oddity of a rules question: So - outsiders do not have a dual nature. Can they be affected by Magic Jar? I really havent thought about that yet. I believe that this is something that has no definitive answer in the rules and will require an Elder ruling. I suggest that you do it this fight however you think is correct(I will accept that for now), and I will seek an Elder vote in the Courtroom for future fights. For this fight: If you think that it shouldnt work, just use the specified draining attacks. All of them only have a 2.5% chance of actually hitting me, so I should have lots of rounds do drain them dry.
TelinArtho 09-21-07, 04:36 PM	I really havent thought about that yet. I believe that this is something that has no definitive answer in the rules and will require an Elder ruling. I suggest that you do it this fight however you think is correct(I will accept that for now), and I will seek an Elder vote in the Courtroom for future fights. For this fight: If you think that it shouldnt work, just use the specified draining attacks. All of them only have a 2.5% chance of actually hitting me, so I should have lots of rounds do drain them dry. Well - I already felt that it shouldn't work on them (hence the reason I was surprised to see it in your tactics). Since you have that noted, I'll run it accordingly. Feel free to get a vote on it (unless someone can dredge up a response out of the FAQ that resolves this...) in the courtroom - because I doubt this is the last time it comes up.
MindWandererB 09-21-07, 06:12 PM	It actually has come up in the past--in Aerryl vs. Samuel, Samuel attempted to possess a Janni that Aerryl had summoned. It was ruled then thet he couldn't. (Which worked in his favor, because if he'd succeeded, he would have been banished along with it when the summon spell ended.)
Erithmu 09-22-07, 12:05 AM	Dentik vs Wooly battle of attrition up here.
Vathelokai 09-22-07, 12:08 AM	PsibeastECL13 (Vathelokai) vs Baelin "Called the Shadow" (Malither76) and Lord Lorian (templer10) is up. Brutal fight. Nice clean fight. Nice rolling, Malither. I think with touchsight going, Baelin couldn't have sneak attacked. But the dmg in the next round makes that irrelevant. One problem: I had the title line wrong on my sheet. This was fight 3 for Beast. Time to craft that skin of proteus :evillaugh Thanks.
TelinArtho 09-22-07, 12:23 AM	I don't believe touchsight breaks the SA advantage of blinking.
TelinArtho 09-22-07, 12:33 AM	Dentik vs Wooly battle of attrition up here. My fights are never supposed to be fights of attrition versus two opponents... If I am dropped to 15hp or less, drop Entropic shield for a CLW. If I manage to take down the wolf and Wooly is hiding away from me (around a corner or something), move out of LOS, drawing my Wand of CLW and heal up to full as long as he lets me. In this case, switch out my longspear for my morningstar and keep the wand in hand and heal as needed (below 15hp - bring it back up to full). I thought I was clear here in saying I only wanted to use the wand if the wolf was down and Wooly wasn't in melee with me. Other than that - Dentik used a scroll of Protection from Evil (mentioned as a potion in the fight) that isn't mentioned in the summary. Edit - actually - Dentik's spells used aren't mentioned either (Spiritual Weapon, Shatter, Entropic Shield) Edit again - I notice in the roller that you didn't apply a +2 to the reflex saves for Dentik's dwarven resistance to spells. This means the initial hit by the Flaming Sphere does no damage.
Vathelokai 09-22-07, 12:51 AM	I don't believe touchsight breaks the SA advantage of blinking. Not sure what SA means in that context. Admitedly, I didn't look through it from a RAW standpoint, but I had assumed that since a blinking creature moves back and forth into the material plane multiple times per round, touchsight would detect the creature every time it returned to the plane. The miss chances would be the same, but since the blinker has to be in the material plane to attack, they would also have to be in the effect of touchsight to do so; so the victim would auto-succeed on spot and listen checks right before the attack. Again, all assumption. Does anyone have any insight?
Eamane 09-22-07, 01:15 AM	Not sure what SA means in that context. Admitedly, I didn't look through it from a RAW standpoint, but I had assumed that since a blinking creature moves back and forth into the material plane multiple times per round, touchsight would detect the creature every time it returned to the plane. The miss chances would be the same, but since the blinker has to be in the material plane to attack, they would also have to be in the effect of touchsight to do so; so the victim would auto-succeed on spot and listen checks right before the attack. Again, all assumption. Does anyone have any insight? SA would = Sneak Attack in this instance, I believe. As far as it's interaction with blinking; Someone with touchsight vs a blinker is exactly the same as someone without touchsight vs a blinker (unless another variable is in play). Sure, you auto-spot them when they blink in (with or without touchsight), but it's the erratic nature of that blinking that is unpredictable that allows them to catch you flat-footed.
templer10 09-22-07, 07:46 AM	Shadow Inquisition (Party) vs. Graashnak Vruuurk (Rauul) is Done and here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13860399&postcount=1339)
Rauul 09-22-07, 08:01 AM	Shadow Inquisition (Party) vs. Graashnak Vruuurk (Rauul) is Done and here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13860399&postcount=1339) Thanks for the run.. About your coments.. yes i Know entangle only works if there are Plants in a 40-ft.-radius spread (about anywhere in the city except the center and roofs), as for the dc 11 "A creature that succeeds on a Reflex save is not entangled but can still move at only half speed through the area" when facing people with a 20 ft movement rate.. makes it a 10ft rate.. But Hey i am NOT argueing.. Graashnak finally won a fight.. hopefully it will be enough to remove his Failure tag (it annoys me)
hogarth 09-22-07, 08:48 AM	Nice clean fight. Nice rolling, Malither. I think with touchsight going, Baelin couldn't have sneak attacked. But the dmg in the next round makes that irrelevant. Touchsight doesn't help vs. etherealness (which is what blinking gives 1/2 the time). See Invisibility would work, though.
Erithmu 09-22-07, 10:30 AM	I thought I was clear here in saying I only wanted to use the wand if the wolf was down and Wooly wasn't in melee with me. Other than that - Dentik used a scroll of Protection from Evil (mentioned as a potion in the fight) that isn't mentioned in the summary. Edit - actually - Dentik's spells used aren't mentioned either (Spiritual Weapon, Shatter, Entropic Shield) Edit again - I notice in the roller that you didn't apply a +2 to the reflex saves for Dentik's dwarven resistance to spells. This means the initial hit by the Flaming Sphere does no damage. Man ... I totally botched that one ... serves me right for not reading 'Reflex negates' and being sleepy. @Telin: I know your away for the weekend, but how much would you like me to rerun (ie: remove the excessive healing?) I didn't mention spells as you were on your last week anyways. @whitebaron: any comments from your side before I rerun some of this?
TelinArtho 09-22-07, 11:46 AM	Well - as much as you feel inclined too. I certainly would prefer to fix the healing - since I never plan for healing in a situation like I was (because it is often a losing battle). As for the flaming sphere - I know it won't make a difference in the end - so go ahead and leave it be if you don't feel like fixing it.
whitebaron 09-22-07, 12:58 PM	i don't have much spare time this week, so just do what you think is appropriate. i'd rather get my own pitlorded fights done than study the fights carefully. i forgot in the tactics to add the appropriate augmented wolf for reference, which is not important on that low attack roll and prot from evil. two things i see right off the top of my head: *) prot from evil scroll - which brings me to the scroll usage - he can't do a 5ft step (free) and draw scroll(move) and stow longspear(move) and cast(std). most likely the summoned wolf gets an additional attack here, nothing to worry about. *) flaming sphere, as much as it hurts my own position: "reflex negates", so it did not do much damage.
whitebaron 09-22-07, 06:25 PM	maeglin vs bag of tricks is up. @eamane: in a 300 feet arena, hearing even battle is very unlikely. you have up to -30 distance - penalty.
Eamane 09-22-07, 08:01 PM	maeglin vs bag of tricks is up. @eamane: in a 300 feet arena, hearing even battle is very unlikely. you have up to -30 distance - penalty. Which is why my tactics have me move closer to the source for a few rounds to make sure it's not the distance mod messing with me, neh? Thanks for the run ;)
hogarth 09-22-07, 08:33 PM	--never mind--
Rauul 09-23-07, 11:14 AM	Darian Thorne vs. Shugho-zact is done and here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13878444&postcount=1343).. took longer to post than to run....
lonewolf 09-23-07, 11:30 AM	Darian Thorne vs. Shugho-zact is done and here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13878444&postcount=1343).. took longer to post than to run.... as expected thanks for running!
Eamane 09-23-07, 12:57 PM	Darian Thorne vs. Shugho-zact is done and here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13878444&postcount=1343).. took longer to post than to run.... Uhm. There a reason my familiar didn't do anything? No, it's not important, but just ignoring part of my tactics because I'm an underdog is a bit iffy ;) Anyways, thanks for the run, did go about as expected..
whitebaron 09-23-07, 02:01 PM	nemion vs his own horse is up. Diana shot him, too.
Sjiggie 09-23-07, 02:19 PM	Thanks for the run whitebaron everything looks good to me
Nurlithion 09-23-07, 02:35 PM	Sorry about the wall, I thought the 10ft cube thing reffered only to the size of the illusion, so I thought I could just divide it and get a 20-by-5ft area. As for the not using a mount if I can't ride, well, I was expecting to be too far away to get hit, and since I thought my wall would be longer, I just wouldn't be shot. Thanks for the run, though.
lonewolf 09-23-07, 03:53 PM	Pack of huge dire wolves vs collossal iron statue is up. @Elrick: I just noticed that I forgot the trip checks after the first, but it wont make any difference...
templer10 09-23-07, 03:58 PM	Pack of huge dire wolves vs collossal iron statue is up. @Elrick: I just noticed that I forgot the trip checks after the first, but it wont make any difference... Thanks for the run - I just love dire wolves...
templer10 09-23-07, 04:05 PM	Malik vs 4 greater berghasts is up (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13856785&postcount=1333).
Sjiggie 09-23-07, 04:40 PM	Petyr Darry vs Verren Firestarter is up here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13881513&postcount=1344) the battle that was decided in 1 round (new coco record?)
Callix 09-23-07, 04:52 PM	Petyr Darry vs Verren Firestarter is up here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13881513&postcount=1344) the battle that was decided in 1 round (new coco record?) Thanks for the run, Sjiggie. Bad luck, Whitebaron. And to quote FPS Doug: "BOOM! Headshot!"
whitebaron 09-23-07, 04:56 PM	Petyr Darry vs Verren Firestarter is up here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13881513&postcount=1344) the battle that was decided in 1 round (new coco record?) no, not a new record, but it is an equal. ;) i saw a fight that was lost by lonewolf, where he didnt even have an action (i had one *G*) if i'd been the player here, i'd gone for full cover. but aside from that, even if i get a shot in, he will kill me for sure. that's the main reason i wasn't that specific in my tactics.
lonewolf 09-23-07, 05:12 PM	i saw a fight that was lost by lonewolf, where he didnt even have an action (i had one *G*) Actually, there was a character(Ajora) specialized on 1st round kills, and Karen was just one of his victims.
Erithmu 09-23-07, 07:50 PM	Dentik vs Wooly battle of attrition up here. Comments fixed, no change in results, but items used yes ...
Rauul 09-23-07, 07:56 PM	Uhm. There a reason my familiar didn't do anything? No, it's not important, but just ignoring part of my tactics because I'm an underdog is a bit iffy ;) Anyways, thanks for the run, did go about as expected.. Sorry i forgot about the Familiar.. Added him.. he did 2 dmg and didn't disrupt Darian.. nothing changed
TelinArtho 09-24-07, 02:52 PM	Samuel Highground (lonewolf) vs 3 Elite Elder Arrowhawks (Unknown Monster) is up.
hogarth 09-24-07, 03:00 PM	Samuel Highground (lonewolf) vs 3 Elite Elder Arrowhawks (Unknown Monster) is up. Note that Force Screen's bonus to AC only applies to incorporeal touch attacks, not all touch attacks.
TelinArtho 09-24-07, 04:03 PM	Note that Force Screen's bonus to AC only applies to incorporeal touch attacks, not all touch attacks. I am aware - and that is why I originally ran it that way. However, note that Samuel is a Wilder and gets the Elude touch ability - so when his regular AC goes up - his touch AC does as well (because his regular AC from Armor/Shield boni is much less than his Cha bonus).
lonewolf 09-24-07, 04:09 PM	Samuel Highground (lonewolf) vs 3 Elite Elder Arrowhawks (Unknown Monster) is up. Thanks for running. For future fights, note that draining touch doesnt heal samuel but bestows temporary hitpoints that stack with vigor.
TelinArtho 09-24-07, 04:39 PM	Draining Touch (Su): A ghost that hits a living target with its incorporeal touch attack drains 1d4 points from any one ability score it selects. On each such successful attack, the ghost heals 5 points of damage to itself. Against ethereal opponents, it adds its Strength modifier to attack rolls only. Against nonethereal opponents, it adds its Dexterity modifier to attack rolls only. I see that it heals - not provides temp hp.
lonewolf 09-24-07, 04:46 PM	I see that it heals - not provides temp hp. strange I could have sworn... well anyway, thanks for running again
templer10 09-24-07, 04:55 PM	Yorick murders some poor Troglodites and some poor moniter lizards here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13891531&postcount=1345) - But VERY VERY slooowly..... Get some dmg boosters men...
MindWandererB 09-24-07, 05:27 PM	no, not a new record, but it is an equal. ;) i saw a fight that was lost by lonewolf, where he didnt even have an action (i had one *G*) if i'd been the player here, i'd gone for full cover. but aside from that, even if i get a shot in, he will kill me for sure. that's the main reason i wasn't that specific in my tactics. Nope--there was a fight once that was decided (though not finished) before initiative even began. Someone used a prebuff round to apply drow poison to a weapon... and you can guess where that's going.
Eluria 09-24-07, 06:02 PM	@Eamane: Hey E, do you know whether the ECL 4 free-for-all is going to be done by the deadline? Just wondering, no pressure :D
Eamane 09-24-07, 06:08 PM	@Eamane: Hey E, do you know whether the ECL 4 free-for-all is going to be done by the deadline? Just wondering, no pressure :D Yeah, it'll be done and posted tonight, barring some strange accident. My apologizes for not doing it on the weekend but there was a county fair on saturday and relationship trouble on sunday ;)
Eluria 09-24-07, 07:13 PM	Fairs are far more fun, and relationship trouble should always be first priority - totally understood, was just wondering if I have to check tomorrow before work or not :)
Sjiggie 09-24-07, 07:53 PM	Nope--there was a fight once that was decided (though not finished) before initiative even began. Someone used a prebuff round to apply drow poison to a weapon... and you can guess where that's going. Ah yes I remember it now. That was really unlucky for the one who used the drow poison. Not only did he poisoned himself but also failed both saves.
Macbrea 09-25-07, 01:12 AM	Yorick murders some poor Troglodites and some poor moniter lizards here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13891531&postcount=1345) - But VERY VERY slooowly..... Get some dmg boosters men... Yorick is designed to either fight very slowly in a shootout or drop them with poison. He is spending money as he can to increase his damage.
Abyssal Stalker 09-25-07, 01:53 PM	Nope--there was a fight once that was decided (though not finished) before initiative even began. Someone used a prebuff round to apply drow poison to a weapon... and you can guess where that's going. That was Telin's Ilendil Oratith against my Undertaker. I had come up with something new and wanted to use Arcane Sight to locate Ilendil, but my amazing idea got wasted...:) But Cat used that tactic against Hood (I think?) a while later.
TelinArtho 09-25-07, 02:03 PM	That was Telin's Ilendil Oratith against my Undertaker. I had come up with something new and wanted to use Arcane Sight to locate Ilendil, but my amazing idea got wasted...:) But Cat used that tactic against Hood (I think?) a while later. Yeah yeah - don't remind me... one of Ilendil's many failures.
Sjiggie 09-25-07, 02:31 PM	I'm working on the Gakhnalak Strongjaw vs The Shadow as we speak but two tactics of hide in the starting box and shoot from my starting box doesn't really help to speed up the fight. -Sjiggie
Rauul 09-25-07, 03:36 PM	I'm working on the Gakhnalak Strongjaw vs The Shadow as we speak but two tactics of hide in the starting box and shoot from my starting box doesn't really help to speed up the fight. -Sjiggie Sorry about that.. but toe to toe.. Gakhnalak would tear shadow limb from limb.. add his cohort and it gets worse... Don't know what he is hiding from LOL
Sjiggie 09-25-07, 03:43 PM	At the moment he isn't hiding in his starting box anymore and Gakhnalak left his as well. I wonder how that happend :confused: ;)
Sjiggie 09-25-07, 03:59 PM	The Shadow falls prey to Gakhnalak (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13902219&postcount=1347) Had to make some improvisations because tactics assumed that the other would come to him but both players stayed in their starting box making both tactics invalid. -Sjiggie
TelinArtho 09-25-07, 04:18 PM	Wroth notes to himself that he doesn't need to run away when using a wand, so just blasts Ralein point-blank: 5 vs 15; Or tries to, anyways. He considers that trying to hit an enemy with a relatively high touch AC with a very low attack modifer may be considered 'otherwise cannot use Ray of Enfeeblement' and decides to turn invisible next turn. I have a fairly big issue with this comment. Wroth is attacking with a 1d20+2 vs Ralein's touch AC of 15. I can't see how that fact would qualify as "unable to use the wand of RoE" - he missed twice but that's just bad luck. I don't have as much an issue with him turning invisible on the next turn - since his tactics specify to turn invisible after getting shot at twice on closing - but even that is questionable. He was hit twice - yes - but neither was on closing in. As far as I can tell - he should continue trying the RoE tactic at that point. Other than that - the only other issue I can point out is a non-issue due to the rolls. Why would Ralein be permitted to make escape artist checks (+3 vs DC10), while Ialgo is forced to make Str checks (+2 vs DC14), when Ialgo is better at the Escape Artist (+2 vs DC10)?
Eamane 09-25-07, 04:25 PM	Ialgo vs Wroth vs Ralein vs Ialgo vs Wroth vs Ralein is up and finished. Setup is here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13859024&postcount=1335) and fight is here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13859039&postcount=1336).
Eamane 09-25-07, 04:29 PM	I have a fairly big issue with this comment. Wroth is attacking with a 1d20+2 vs Ralein's touch AC of 15. I can't see how that fact would qualify as "unable to use the wand of RoE" - he missed twice but that's just bad luck. I don't have as much an issue with him turning invisible on the next turn - since his tactics specify to turn invisible after getting shot at twice on closing - but even that is questionable. He was hit twice - yes - but neither was on closing in. As far as I can tell - he should continue trying the RoE tactic at that point. Other than that - the only other issue I can point out is a non-issue due to the rolls. Why would Ralein be permitted to make escape artist checks (+3 vs DC10), while Ialgo is forced to make Str checks (+2 vs DC14), when Ialgo is better at the Escape Artist (+2 vs DC10)? Double posting, but here goes. Yes, having him stop RoE'n was a small improvisation. However, he at least mentioned the desire to stop RoE'n if it wasnt working, even if those weren't the specific circumstances. As far as webbing goes.. I forgot that Ialgo had a high dex mod. When I went to resolve his first escape attempt, I looked at Wroth's sheet accidentally and thus used the strength mod instead of dex. If it was fight affecting, I would change it as it was my mistake. I also made a slight mistake with not having Ralein use his potion of cure light wounds before Ialgo died. I'm disinclined to edit, but if you wish, I will see if the one extra attack Ialgo receives would change the result.
TelinArtho 09-25-07, 04:49 PM	I don't think he would've used the potion before Ialgo died - his tactics called for it at 10 or less. Before Ialgo's last shot - he was still at 11. Might as well keep the fight as is - I don't like losing to an improvisation (if Wroth keeps up his tactic - Ralein fails pretty badly at firing from range), but it is certainly a gray area. As to the comments, take a look at Ialgo's carrying capacity. 42lbs is his current encumbrance; 0-43lbs is his light encumbrance range. Armor spikes, at 10lbs, would drive him over that quite quickly. As for my tactics not covering what to do when Wroth disappeared - I beg to differ. My tactics called for firing on the closest opponent, with Wroth as a priority. That I lost in a fairly equal ranged battle is something that happens - but it was a tactic I was willing to stand behind. Also - a level 4 cleric has very little power to overcome invisibility (barring magic domain anyway), especially if someone wants to remain hidden.
Eamane 09-25-07, 04:55 PM	I don't think he would've used the potion before Ialgo died - his tactics called for it at 10 or less. Before Ialgo's last shot - he was still at 11. Might as well keep the fight as is - I don't like losing to an improvisation (if Wroth keeps up his tactic - Ralein fails pretty badly at firing from range), but it is certainly a gray area. As to the comments, take a look at Ialgo's carrying capacity. 42lbs is his current encumbrance; 0-43lbs is his light encumbrance range. Armor spikes, at 10lbs, would drive him over that quite quickly. As for my tactics not covering what to do when Wroth disappeared - I beg to differ. My tactics called for firing on the closest opponent, with Wroth as a priority. That I lost in a fairly equal ranged battle is something that happens - but it was a tactic I was willing to stand behind. Also - a level 4 cleric has very little power to overcome invisibility (barring magic domain anyway), especially if someone wants to remain hidden. Good point, I misremembered his hitpoints. Well, if you replace the Chain Shirt with a Mithral Chain Shirt (A temporary investment of a mere 500 gp) you gain 15 lbs, which can easily be spent on some spikes. If you make it cold-iron you can drop the rapier; though the rapier is a technically better weapon with it's improved crit range, so that might not be advisable. I'm not saying you had a definite tactic to easily overcome invisibility, but you had options. Wroth has a horrible Move silently check due to his tendency to run around in full plate with a shield, using listen to locate his general area in combination with summoning monsters with scent/tremorsense (like the spiders) would have worked out well; but you didn't have SM memorized, which I would suggest for the future. But even just a note to use a move action to do listen checks and try to beat his horrible move silently score would have worked better than letting him have his way and move with impunity while invisible. Or a readied action to peg him as soon as he popped out of invisibility.
TelinArtho 09-25-07, 05:02 PM	Actually - there's another more pressing reason not to use armor spikes: Ialgo's a cleric - he doesn't have proficiency with them. That said - he will be crafting a set of mithril chain next level. Listen checks (+5) vs his Move silently (-3) would still need to be a success by 20 or more in order to pinpoint. I wouldn't call that a very good choice. For Summon Monster - might be a viable option - but on an open terrain like the plains - has a very small chance of pinpointing long enough (especially if he avoids them). With a short duration (4 rounds...), they are even less of an option. Readying versus an invisible foe when I have another target, who happens to be firing at me? I don't think so. Some of those tactics might be worthwhile in a 1-v-1 fight, but with another target to need to beat - I see no reason to waste my effort trying to locate him. ---------------------- As an aside to this - no love for Bulgar... fails his save vs EM (+10 to his reflex save...) and then gets hit with a charge...
Eamane 09-25-07, 05:18 PM	@Telin Ah, right. Martial. Spiked gauntlets then? Weigh less, do less damage, but same affect in that they preserve your AoO potential. And yes, I'm not suggesting that you should try to look for an invisible person over fighting someone who isn't invisible; but every free for all turns into a 1vs1 fight eventually, right?
Rauul 09-25-07, 05:23 PM	The Shadow falls prey to Gakhnalak (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13902219&postcount=1347) Had to make some improvisations because tactics assumed that the other would come to him but both players stayed in their starting box making both tactics invalid. -Sjiggie Not gonna argue the fight.. but you didn't use any of my tactics.. (withdraw and heal, true strike with drow poison arrow, ect..) it was a fight i should of surrendered but couldn't.. Edit => how did shadow get a Delay penalty in rd 10... when he sniped in rd 9... Shrugs never mind
TelinArtho 09-25-07, 05:27 PM	Well - the bigger issue for me is about the character's image. The few characters of mine who have armor spikes (none have spiked guantlets) are ones who are very melee intensive - Bulgar and Farig are the only two that come to mind. Spiked guantlets are just not something I consider for most of my characters because it just doesn't fit with the image - especially for a character in less than medium armor. Since gauntlets are not included with Chain shirts, that weight would need to be added (granted 1 pound - so Ialgo would still be fine). Besides - the bow is not really Ialgo's focus right now - produce flame is. In this particular fight - unless I wanted to chase around my opponents, I wasn't likely to be able to use the produce flames - so I fell back on one of many backups. And all of this changes drastically next level. Ialgo gets to add a small fire elemental and a small air elemental as allies - and suddenly his options improve greatly.
templer10 09-25-07, 06:14 PM	Bulgar vs valanthe vs erithmu is done (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13903522&postcount=1348) - i was pretty suprised who won.... p.s - whow do i calculate rwards in a 3 way FFA with 1 person with 25% ally penalty and one with 6.25%? (i suck at math unless it's dollars per Hour...).
Erithmu 09-25-07, 06:19 PM	Bulgar vs valanthe vs erithmu is done (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13903522&postcount=1348) - i was pretty suprised who won.... p.s - whow do i calculate rwards in a 3 way FFA with 1 person with 25% ally penalty and one with 6.25%? (i suck at math unless it's dollars per Hour...). Split the ally between the other two: so Rith should be +12.5 +3.125 = +15.625% (before Pol Career) Bulgar should be -6.25 + 12.5 = +6.25% Val should be -25 + 3.125 = -21.875%
Sjiggie 09-25-07, 06:52 PM	Bulgar vs valanthe vs erithmu is done (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13903522&postcount=1348) - i was pretty suprised who won.... p.s - whow do i calculate rwards in a 3 way FFA with 1 person with 25% ally penalty and one with 6.25%? (i suck at math unless it's dollars per Hour...). I can't really track Valanthe's movement in round 11-12 because in your description you say he moved but the coordinates in the round summary stay the same (nothing personal but that is why I like pitlords to use the mapper and not just list coordinates) but his movement without the skate stone is 45ft vs the movement from the bison 40ft means that he should be able to avoid the second charge. I wasn't entirely clear in it but I wanted Valanthe to avoid the summons and go direclty after Erithmu and enter melee combat with him. I did say to get to Erithmu as fast as possible but Valanthe seems to run in the opposite direction. 1 succesfull charge with psionic weapon could kill Erithmu even if he healed himself. Also in round 11 why let you Valanthe pick up his vigor stone and not use his Lay on hands ability. I asked to use it between fighting Bulgar and Erithmu. That extra 6hp means he ends up with 1 hp in round 17 and will mean that the fight will go on then. I never asked to pick up dropped items but I did ask to use Lay on hands/wand of CLW to heal between fighting Bulgar and Erithmu.
Sjiggie 09-25-07, 06:54 PM	Not gonna argue the fight.. but you didn't use any of my tactics.. (withdraw and heal, true strike with drow poison arrow, ect..) it was a fight i should of surrendered but couldn't.. Edit => how did shadow get a Delay penalty in rd 10... when he sniped in rd 9... Shrugs never mind The way I red your tactics is that you wanted to heal after you cast Hold Person on Gakhnalak. About the Delay penalty that is a mistake from me if you want I can edit it in but I don't think that it will win you the fight. It will cost you a lot of more resources having to use the wand of CLW and Expeditious Retreat to stay at range and shoot at Gakhnalak
templer10 09-25-07, 07:36 PM	I can't really track Valanthe's movement in round 11-12 because in your description you say he moved but the coordinates in the round summary stay the same (nothing personal but that is why I like pitlords to use the mapper and not just list coordinates) but his movement without the skate stone is 45ft vs the movement from the bison 40ft means that he should be able to avoid the second charge. I wasn't entirely clear in it but I wanted Valanthe to avoid the summons and go direclty after Erithmu and enter melee combat with him. I did say to get to Erithmu as fast as possible but Valanthe seems to run in the opposite direction. 1 succesfull charge with psionic weapon could kill Erithmu even if he healed himself. Also in round 11 why let you Valanthe pick up his vigor stone and not use his Lay on hands ability. I asked to use it between fighting Bulgar and Erithmu. That extra 6hp means he ends up with 1 hp in round 17 and will mean that the fight will go on then. I never asked to pick up dropped items but I did ask to use Lay on hands/wand of CLW to heal between fighting Bulgar and Erithmu. i went to pickup the vigor stone since you wanted to use vigor after the dispell, This wasnt between bulgar and Erith since he had you in LOS and was activly engaging you. vs Eritmu in tactics you definently asked to wait then buff for 2 rounds then go for melee. You said when he summons something to run away - you didnt mention to go after him. The bison could do the scond charge since at that point you could have withdrawed either Directly west which left you very little place to run or East which gave you plenty of room to run But you had to go in the same direction as the bison for about 10 feet so i went east. Also as soon as those first summons were 1 round from ending Eritmhu still had 1 more SM3 whichc would have you do even more running. p.s - sorry but i dont paste maps - it makes it take a lot longer to run fights for me and when i run 4 fights a week and almost always High ECL's - they take plenty long enough.
Erithmu 09-25-07, 07:46 PM	@T10: Forgot to mention: thanks for the run, and beware the bisons ... (Still holding off on edit for the time being.)
MindWandererB 09-25-07, 07:52 PM	The Shadow falls prey to Gakhnalak (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13902219&postcount=1347) Had to make some improvisations because tactics assumed that the other would come to him but both players stayed in their starting box making both tactics invalid. -Sjiggie The reason Gakhnalak didn't move out was because Shadow doesn't have Hide in Plain Sight. Without that, he can't hide while being observed, which he is from round 1. So if no other changes were made, Gak should be attacking in rounds 2-9. Of course, that would fall under his "turtling" contingency (even though it wasn't Shadow's intent), and he'd go for melee. Then we'd be down to Shadow attempting Hold Person and the contingencies associated with that.
Eluria 09-25-07, 08:24 PM	I have a fairly big issue with this comment. Wroth is attacking with a 1d20+2 vs Ralein's touch AC of 15. I can't see how that fact would qualify as "unable to use the wand of RoE" - he missed twice but that's just bad luck. I don't have as much an issue with him turning invisible on the next turn - since his tactics specify to turn invisible after getting shot at twice on closing - but even that is questionable. He was hit twice - yes - but neither was on closing in. As far as I can tell - he should continue trying the RoE tactic at that point. I'm much too exhausted to pick through the fight, but just so there are no sour graps on your behalf Telin, I've learned the hard way to put a "general goals" tactic idea concept for pitlords to fall back on, and Wroth's clearly says: "Please do whatever possible to achieve the main goal of "being invisible and letting things happen while not getting killed." Also, to nitpick over "if hit while closing," as masking the intent of "if hit with arrows" (Wroth asked to do nothing else besides closing; there is no other possible action he could have been taking), is a little ridiculous. Thanks for the long run Eamane, and the flavor text. Suggestions noted; I debated the "attacking while weakened" vs. "hoping they kill eachother off" merits, and opted for what may have been the worse choice. In my head, when Wroth ended invis, it would be down to one weak or two very weak opponents, hopefully one with poison/web, and starting off with an RoE should have given him the edge - it wasn't meant to be.
TelinArtho 09-25-07, 08:32 PM	You might call it nitpicking - but I frequently have tactics which are essentially "heal only if I am not able to achieve x goal." So in the context of this fight - my tactics would be very much the same as yours - but my intent is to only heal when I'm not able to enact the RoE strategy. For example - if your character were mine and I had put those exact words in my tactics and the pitlord did exactly what he did - I would have mentioned it as something to change. Anyways - like I said - it isn't worth getting upset about - because to me it isn't clear. I do have issue with the "justification" text - but at the same time - I agree it is ambiguous on the matter where it might come into play - and that's why I left it be. To be frank - if a pitlord called my 40% shot impossible or unable to be completed - I would be pretty upset.
Sjiggie 09-26-07, 06:28 AM	i went to pickup the vigor stone since you wanted to use vigor after the dispell, This wasnt between bulgar and Erith since he had you in LOS and was activly engaging you. vs Eritmu in tactics you definently asked to wait then buff for 2 rounds then go for melee. You said when he summons something to run away - you didnt mention to go after him. The bison could do the scond charge since at that point you could have withdrawed either Directly west which left you very little place to run or East which gave you plenty of room to run But you had to go in the same direction as the bison for about 10 feet so i went east. Also as soon as those first summons were 1 round from ending Eritmhu still had 1 more SM3 whichc would have you do even more running. p.s - sorry but i dont paste maps - it makes it take a lot longer to run fights for me and when i run 4 fights a week and almost always High ECL's - they take plenty long enough. Medivh was supposed to be the one running away from the summons. Valanthe was going to outrun them to get to Erithmu as fast as possible. I did mention it in my tactics to get to Erithmu as fast as possible but you let Valanthe withdraw in the opposite direction. So if the bison can charge me no matter where Valanthe goes why move him away from his opponent. It doesn't make sense to me. Also I think that at the point where you let Valanthe pick up the vigor stone Erithmu wasn't engaging Valanthe. At least Valanthe was not engaging Erithmu at that time so he should use the action to heal himself. If you don't edit that in I can understand but I would like to see the movement change.
Eluria 09-26-07, 06:31 AM	nevermind
Rauul 09-26-07, 07:03 AM	@Sjiggie can you change Shadows Free activity to Gather Info instead of singing.. (was getting a Bracelet this week instead of singing) Oh and you used his last level Singing... he leveled.. gets payed more now... :)
Sjiggie 09-26-07, 07:04 AM	Will do...
templer10 09-26-07, 07:09 AM	Medivh was supposed to be the one running away from the summons. Valanthe was going to outrun them to get to Erithmu as fast as possible. I did mention it in my tactics to get to Erithmu as fast as possible but you let Valanthe withdraw in the opposite direction. So if the bison can charge me no matter where Valanthe goes why move him away from his opponent. It doesn't make sense to me. Also I think that at the point where you let Valanthe pick up the vigor stone Erithmu wasn't engaging Valanthe. At least Valanthe was not engaging Erithmu at that time so he should use the action to heal himself. If you don't edit that in I can understand but I would like to see the movement change. From your tactics: "When he succesfully summons a monster Valanthe will use a skate stone and try to outrun it. If it goes after Medivh he will move/run away from it use corners to break LoS from the beast when you can." sorry it say nothing about going after erithmu - beleave me - i looked think i thought it wasnt the best course of action - but it just isnt there. if you insist i can instead of you ppicking up the vigor stone ill let you use LOH for those 6 HP - but i tell you iam not changing anything else and I think the odds of it changing anything (expemt more work for me) is Nil since Erithmu still got another SM3 and you wiil be on 1 HP with 15 or 14 AC...
Sjiggie 09-26-07, 07:16 AM	Also from my tactics just before the line you quoted: If not able to charge close as fast as possible and expend focus, use CoPs on the first attack. So by trying to outrun it I meant that Valanthe would go around the summon and towards Erithmu. If you could edit the LoH in it might be enough. Thank you
templer10 09-26-07, 07:59 AM	Also from my tactics just before the line you quoted: If not able to charge close as fast as possible and expend focus, use CoPs on the first attack. So by trying to outrun it I meant that Valanthe would go around the summon and towards Erithmu. If you could edit the LoH in it might be enough. Thank you SOrry mate - it was 2 lines of tactics: Primary tactic: after buffs are up move in for a charge. Expends psionic focus on the charge and use my CoPs as a free action. If not able to charge close as fast as possible and expend focus, use CoPs on the first attack" and Secondery/contingency tactic :"When he succesfully summons a monster Valanthe will use a skate stone and try to outrun it. If it goes after Medivh he will move/run away from it use corners to break LoS from the beast when you can" So sorry - you said to RUN when summons appear - now if you still want me to edit i will but understand that leaves you with around 9 more rounds of ruuning (including the yet uncast SM3) in which you have to avoid getting into Erithmu's LOS which isnt possible and then you need to go charge him, Hit and do enough dmg to knock off his 20 odd HP before he puts even 1 arrow into you - it's essentially a Pointless edit i think But up to you i suppose.... p.s. - iam not changing the order of the SM2 and the dispell if it comes up - iam not going to redo the whole fight just exchange the Vigor for LOH. Ill pick up the edit after you get shot in round whatever it was (last one) - i just dont have the time for it.
Sjiggie 09-26-07, 08:05 AM	Outrun is not run away from the summons. You had Valanthe move in the worst direction I can imagine. He wants to get in melee and you move him away from his main opponent. I don't ask for a edit where he will run pointless from a summon. I ask for a change in his movement from the point that he moves away from Erithmu into movement to get near Erithmu so he can melee with him. You said before that Valanthe can't get out of the charge range from the bison on his first withdraw but why does he move away from Erithmu then. Why not to him to get to him as fast as possible as in my tactics. That is what I ask for you don't need to edit for 9 more rounds of running because that is not the movement I asked for. Please look over it again. Thanks Sjiggie
templer10 09-26-07, 08:18 AM	Outrun is not run away from the summons. You had Valanthe move in the worst direction I can imagine. He wants to get in melee and you move him away from his main opponent. I don't ask for a edit where he will run pointless from a summon. I ask for a change in his movement from the point that he moves away from Erithmu into movement to get near Erithmu so he can melee with him. You said before that Valanthe can't get out of the charge range from the bison on his first withdraw but why does he move away from Erithmu then. Why not to him to get to him as fast as possible as in my tactics. That is what I ask for you don't need to edit for 9 more rounds of running because that is not the movement I asked for. Please look over it again. Thanks Sjiggie Dude - i feel for you - But sorry - if you wanted to run AFTER erithmu - you should have said so - you didnt - you said - When he succesfully summons a monster Valanthe will use a skate stone and try to outrun it" Considering a smmoned monster usually appears fairly close to it's master (being close range) i simply cant see any way to interpert it as run AWAY from it the best way you can - and exept for getting that charge you could have stayed ahead of it indefinently. i think what we have here is a classic - " i meant to write something A" but it came out as do something B - happened to me more then once - When that happens you are essentially at the mercy of how the pitlord understand what you wrote - this is how i understood how you wrote it - In REAL TIME - and it's simply NOT going to be changed - it's nothing personall - i personally think you should have won - but iam not going to change my opinion on the interpritation of a Clear cut tactit (i.e. run away from monster) which you MEANT (but didnt write) for it to be understood diffrently (i.e. run away from monster but towards erithmu) When said interpritation is completly wrong IMO - especially since reading it the way YOU like it to be will almost certinly be fight changing. p.s. - also note you still wanted 2 rounds of buffs before engaging Erithmu - so that also dont support you interpritation - since you said to charge him AFTER BUFFS.
Sjiggie 09-26-07, 08:32 AM	Okay maybe I should have said outrun the summon and go after Erithmu but I thought I was clear enought with go after Erithmu as fast as possible. I even stated the order of preference to be Erithmu => bulgar => summons. That would mean to me that Valanthe would ignore the summons if he could go after Eirthmu or Bulgar. I won't argue it further but I believe you didn't do what I asked for even if you interprete it as run away from the summon the second charge shouldn't happen because Valanthe was faster even without the skate stone. I let it drop now. Thank you for running the fight. I try to be more clear next time in my tactics. Sjiggie
whitebaron 09-26-07, 09:23 AM	it won't help, but as non-native speaker i'd interpret outrun as run away. maybe i'd know from the context that something else was wanted, but run is synonymous to me like "flee" or "run away", as long as no direction is given. as i have learned twice and again, you need to be over-exact on your tactics, or you'll get pitlord's decision. (which, in some cases is good and sound, and in others, contradicts your intention.) this is why i include a short synopsis on fights now - what i want to do and what not, and then state the exact tactic. i only drop that for matches where i should resign right after the start (all of verrens fights, actually *g* )
TelinArtho 09-26-07, 10:14 AM	@templer10 - when you get a chance, edit in the 2 arrows Bulgar used please. Thanks