Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TelinArtho 09-06-06, 12:27 PM	Fights of the Week: September 6th Sheets Deadline for editing characters sheets is 21:00 CET. Central European Time (http://wwp.centraleuropeantime.eu/) shows the time. Please don't edit the sheet after the deadline or you will lose the match. Currently, you have about 2 1/2 hours before the deadline. Rules of Gladius All that you need to know is written in the Rules of Gladius. It could be useful also to give a look to the Court Decisions part 1 and part 2. Please do not make fake accounts or insult the Elders. Pairings GM Caterane will pair the active Characters of Gladius after the deadline. Make sure that your character is not in Prison (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=571107&goto=lastpost). Pitlording You should use the CoCo Dice Roller (http://www.hwx.it/wizards.com) for the fight. If you need, there is a nice Template ready to use that will help. You could find very useful the Battle Map Tag Generator (http://www.hwx.it/coco) for dynamic Maps, You must post a link to your fight in this thread when it is complete. Other useful links are Skills and Feats, Quick Access tables for XP and Gold. Recent News and Developments There have been several additions and modifications to the new Guild rules. Check the Council of Gladius thread for more information! Also being debated are the rules and allowances for diplomacy and Leadership allies, with strong points on both sides of the discussion. Comments & Concerns Post any comments or concerns for this weeks fights in this thread. Be kind and courteous to your fellow posters, don't attack pitlords. Please remember that they do hard work and consume a lot of time to let you play and above all, have FUN! If you have questions or comments on any of the changes, please make your posts be heard in the Council of Gladius!
TelinArtho 09-06-06, 12:38 PM	@All (especially UserNamer) - remember: If you have a character who is "Not Ready" - leave the title line of that character blank. Putting in "Not Ready" often confuses our illustrious pitlord which gets him all kinds of cranky... (Just a friendly message from yon neighborhood troublemaker...)
TelinArtho 09-06-06, 01:24 PM	Earlier this week, there were reports of guild activity all over Gladius. Though most of the problems were dispersed before authorities arrived, the powerful Sdentch was briefly taken into custody. She was later released on account of there not being enough room in the prison. Our sources have interviewed one of the guards though - and he said: "That woman - if you can call her a woman - is just plain loud, obnoxious and smelly. I'm glad we had no reason to hold her further - because my stomach turned any time I had to do my rounds." He declined the opportunity to be photographed for our magazine. Other situations included a heated altercation in the sewers themselves, although when our reporters arrived all that was left were the remains of a broken set of chains, a few strange feathers and the singed walls. Our experts indicate that lightning might have been the cause of the scorch marks, but no one can be too sure. The chain did however appear to be a weapon of sort before it was sundered to pieces. In another section of the sewers, there were some dragon scales discovered after a portion of the sewer overflowed because of a freak accident involving frozen sewage backing up the pipes. After some careful investigation, by yours truly, it would seem that the prominent and curious dragon Saffron Brass was present at the incident, but her involvement is not known directly. She accepted an interview, but our interviewer is still cataloguing the 17 hours of dialogue into a more readable format. In the forests just outside of Gladius, the noted infamous Archdevil Asran encountered two members of the Living Tree. Although he claimed to be on a peaceful mission - the presence of the Living Tree's Guildmaster's head in a sack seemed to preclude that possibility. With some amazing luck - the two managed to drive the devil into a cave. The sounds that emerged were none too pleasant, but soon the duo from the Living Tree emerged, carrying the head that had been so defiled in order to give it a proper resting place. Recently, a family of bears were dislodged from their home cavern to the north of the Dragor Mounds. When Loddick and Uilo - two of the prominent members of the Living Tree - set out to investigate, they found that a member of the Psionic Consortium had set up in preparation for a raid on their guild. Despite overwhelming odds, the would-be thief was taken into custody. She was later discovered missing from the prison however, and members of the Living Tree are out in search of her as you read this. Lastly, in the farming fields of Gladius - in High Traversam, a member of the Celestial Forces was found wandering about intelligibly and incoherently. When approached by local farmers he pointed a spear at them threateningly, but did not pursue them when they ran in fear. Later his identity was revealed to be none other than Leif Goldeneye. Sources say he had been the subject of a foul curse, but the healing members of the Celestial Forces were able to restore him back to his healthy state. He declined to comment about who had placed him in such a condition. Also in the news: A fierce wrestling match between half-giants Sunstroke and Dronnar Darkjof. At first spectators thought it was an exhibition match, but after 5 minutes without stop, the local guards decided to put an end to the fight. Just at that moment though, Dronnar fell to the ground and Sunstroke ran from the scene before he could be questioned. Interviews with the participants are expected in the coming days.
TelinArtho 09-06-06, 02:04 PM	Abyssal Stalker (14°) <one> [Late:1/18] ayyiniwindryder (7°) <two> [Late:0/5] Caterane (219°) <one> [Late:0/34] DSugui (43°) <two> [Late:7/69] [Offer: +1 Miniquest] Erithmu (26°) <one> [Late:0/33] [Offer: +1 Miniquest] hogarth (3°) <one> [Late:0/2] Iced (-1°) <one> [Late:8/20] [Offer: +3 Miniquests] King Uther (85°) <two> [Late:12/41] McJarvis (16°) <one> [Late:0/1] SauroGrenom (38°) <one> [Late:0/26] TelinArtho (18°) <three> [Late:2/44] [Offer: Extra Fights if Shortage] UserNamer (0°) <one> [Late:0/0] Zelck (9°) <one> [Late:0/6] Zevox (16°) <two> [Late:2/53] 20 fights from pitlords ECL3 = 18 gladiators = 9 fights ECL4 = 12 gladiators = 6 fights ECL5 = 2 gladiators = 1 fight ECL6 = 5 gladiators = 3 fights ECL7 = 4 gladiators = 2 fights ECL8 = 4 gladiators = 2 fights ECL9 = 3 gladiators = 2 fights Total: 25 fights Anyone want to PM pitlords now to pick up an extra fight? Or should I just plan on doing 8 fights this week?
McJarvis 09-06-06, 02:08 PM	20 fights from pitlords ECL3 = 18 gladiators = 9 fights ECL4 = 12 gladiators = 6 fights ECL5 = 2 gladiators = 1 fight ECL6 = 5 gladiators = 3 fights ECL7 = 4 gladiators = 2 fights ECL8 = 4 gladiators = 2 fights ECL9 = 3 gladiators = 2 fights Total: 25 fights Anyone want to PM pitlords now to pick up an extra fight? Or should I just plan on doing 8 fights this week? Is that counting the extra fight I already agreed to do? EDIT- You're under it even if it does. I'll do a max of 4 fights this week if you need it...and I'd prefer ECL 4 battles.
TelinArtho 09-06-06, 02:14 PM	Is that counting the extra fight I already agreed to do? EDIT- You're under it even if it does. I'll do a max of 4 fights this week if you need it...and I'd prefer ECL 4 battles. Send a PM to Cat/Pitlords to get the extra fights. I edited the current list of available pitlords - so people can see the current state. I want to stress that the CoCo doesn't work at all without the volunteer time of the pitlords. I put in as much as I can because I a) enjoy pitlording and b) want to see this place thrive. This week we seem to have 3+ new players - so its understandable that we seem to be bursting at the seams. That being said - I think it is great for a new player to give pitlording a try. I do realize that school might have started for some (whether you are a teacher (Cat) or a student) - but I hope some people will come to pick up some fights.
Erithmu 09-06-06, 02:16 PM	I might pick up a pair of fights, but I'm finishing out my quarter with paper writing one due the 8th and one due the 13th One is 'almost' done and the other I am finishing the research on it. I will try, but I will know better on Monday how much time I will have.
hogarth 09-06-06, 02:22 PM	If I can finish my first fight quickly (e.g. it's not a 4 player FFA on the Forest map with a bunch of snipers holding CLW wands and I end up making a bunch of mistakes that need correcting) I'd be glad to take on a second one. My weekend time is a bit limited, though.
Macbrea 09-06-06, 02:26 PM	It more then likely will look like: ECL3 = 18 gladiators = 7 fights + 1 Multi(4) ECL4 = 12 gladiators = 4 fights + 1 Multi(4) ECL5 = 2 gladiators = 1 fight ECL6 = 5 gladiators = 1 fights + 1 Multi (3) ECL7 = 4 gladiators = 2 fights ECL8 = 4 gladiators = 2 fights ECL9 = 3 gladiators = 1 Multi (3) Total 21 fights
TelinArtho 09-06-06, 02:30 PM	@Macbrea - while correct - that's not really the case on how pitlords "counts" fights. Each Fight that a pitlord has agreed to includes a 2-person fight. If the fight includes 3 or 4 opponents, that counts as 2 fights for that pitlord. So for example, I'm assigned 3 fights per week. If one of those fights is a 4-person FFA, I would normally only get one more fight, which would by default be a 2-person fight. The reason why I said my count was rough is because there's a few miniquests that throw a wrench into the works. I don't actually check how many of the active people are miniquesting - so that's where the count is actually off.
McJarvis 09-06-06, 02:37 PM	@Macbrea - while correct - that's not really the case on how pitlords "counts" fights. Each Fight that a pitlord has agreed to includes a 2-person fight. If the fight includes 3 or 4 opponents, that counts as 2 fights for that pitlord. So for example, I'm assigned 3 fights per week. If one of those fights is a 4-person FFA, I would normally only get one more fight, which would by default be a 2-person fight. The reason why I said my count was rough is because there's a few miniquests that throw a wrench into the works. I don't actually check how many of the active people are miniquesting - so that's where the count is actually off. I thought 3-person fights counted as 1 fight credits-wise.
TelinArtho 09-06-06, 02:38 PM	Unless Cat's changed it - it still counts as two. I'll double check to be sure (because it might've changed while I was absent). EDIT - It doesn't look like the wording has changed, so unless the policy has changed or unless I was mistaken to begin with - 3 person fights should give 2 credits. If you want to be certain send him a PM.
False_Keraptis 09-06-06, 02:43 PM	Is it too late now to edit characters for this week's fight? I've seen 9 PM GMT and 9 PM CTM both listed as deadlines. Thanks.
McJarvis 09-06-06, 02:43 PM	Unless Cat's changed it - it still counts as two. I'll double check to be sure (because it might've changed while I was absent). I'm just remembering from when I Pitlorded over a year ago. I remember doing three-person fights and thinking it was unfair to get 1 cred for so much more work.
hogarth 09-06-06, 02:43 PM	I thought 3-person fights counted as 1 fight credits-wise. For what it's worth: Last week I signed up to pitlord one fight. I got a 3-person hunter fight. I believe I received two credits for it (-1 because I have 3 active characters). YMMV.
TelinArtho 09-06-06, 02:44 PM	Is it too late now to edit characters for this week's fight? I've seen 9 PM GMT and 9 PM CTM both listed as deadlines. Thanks. You have approximately 15 minutes to make any edits - but I would suggest making them quickly.
Zevox 09-06-06, 02:47 PM	I do realize that school might have started for some (whether you are a teacher (Cat) or a student) Thats why I'm down from 4 fights to 2 this week. School started today, and I know from last year to expect lots of homework (mostly in the form of many hours of reading) just from my two honors classes, let alone the regular ones. Maybe if I don't get long fights alreay I may the time to pick up an extra, given that it is only the first week, but I can't guarantee anything of the sort. :( Zevox
Macbrea 09-06-06, 02:54 PM	Now, I have a silly question: Is a character that has been held up with a two week long fight allowed to intercept as a guild activity in the next week? IE: Ignatius (Erithmu) => Kraegin (TelinArtho) => Perius (Ravashack) : DSugui [Arena] [Hunter] [Week 2] Ignatius (Erithmu) intercepts The Chameleon (lonewolf) : XXXXX [-MAP-] [Guild] Or does the delay in fight block the guild from intercepting with this character?
TelinArtho 09-06-06, 02:58 PM	This happened just last week with Little Daisy (and in her case - 2 interceptions). The character is treated as having the same selection in both fights. At the end of the fight, if the same resource (expendable, daily use item, memorized spell) was used - an equivalent resource is used as well as the original. So - if you cast Flame Strike in both battles, but only had one memorized, you would pick a 2nd 5th level spell or a combination of a 2nd and 3rd level spells or a combination of a 1st and 4th level spells or something similar.
Erithmu 09-06-06, 03:02 PM	My mess is somewhat easier as I technically should be able to buy stuff inbetween the fight. I (in writing my tactics) will treat him as if he was in the first week of his fight (although I won't be able to use invis).
Macbrea 09-06-06, 03:03 PM	I can see some crazy stuff happening with that. Example: Week 1 wizard with 5 slots, 2 used week 2 wizard has two fights uses 2 slots per fight.
MindWandererB 09-06-06, 03:04 PM	For what it's worth: Last week I signed up to pitlord one fight. I got a 3-person hunter fight. I believe I received two credits for it (-1 because I have 3 active characters). YMMV. This has happened to me a couple of times, as well. Cat takes this into consideration--if you sign up for three fights, he'll probably give you no more than one 3-way--but there's no strict rule about it. He tries to give the "harder" fights, by his judgment, to people who sign up for fewer.
TelinArtho 09-06-06, 03:04 PM	And for the curious and tardy - the deadline has passed. Now to look forward to my interception versus Andurwin. Good luck to you sir.
MindWandererB 09-06-06, 03:05 PM	My mess is somewhat easier as I technically should be able to buy stuff inbetween the fight. I (in writing my tactics) will treat him as if he was in the first week of his fight (although I won't be able to use invis). Actually, this is exactly what happened to Daisy as well (the second fight would have been Fight 1 of the cycle). You still can't go shopping, unfortunately. Yes, I know this messes up your tactics, but there's no help for it.
TelinArtho 09-06-06, 03:05 PM	This has happened to me a couple of times, as well. Cat takes this into consideration--if you sign up for three fights, he'll probably give you no more than one 3-way--but there's no strict rule about it. He tries to give the "harder" fights, by his judgment, to people who sign up for fewer. And he tries to give me as many complicated fights as he can... I mean guild fights. :)
Macbrea 09-06-06, 03:06 PM	Ah, maybe you'll get lucky and get an Izumi fight. Her tactics are blindly easy.. Run to opponent beat til dead. Kind of simple.
hogarth 09-06-06, 03:13 PM	This has happened to me a couple of times, as well. Cat takes this into consideration--if you sign up for three fights, he'll probably give you no more than one 3-way--but there's no strict rule about it. He tries to give the "harder" fights, by his judgment, to people who sign up for fewer. Oh, I didn't mind; in fact I didn't even know that a 3-person fight = 2 fights before someone mentioned it here. I just mentioned it as evidence that 3-person fights = 2 credits.
lonewolf 09-06-06, 03:43 PM	My mess is somewhat easier as I technically should be able to buy stuff inbetween the fight. I (in writing my tactics) will treat him as if he was in the first week of his fight (although I won't be able to use invis). You could choose the easy way and just surrender to The Chameleon. Its not as if that would make much difference on the outcome of the fight, right? :P
TelinArtho 09-06-06, 05:07 PM	@Cat - Farig is crafting a Spiked Mithril Breastplate not a Mithril Full Plate. Also, Anakala's crafting will take 2 weeks (Market = 9000gp), and Havester's crafting will take 3 weeks (1000gp (PoP (1st)) + 4000gp (PoP (2nd)) + 9000gp (PoP (3rd)) + Darkwood Tower Shield (30+150+450) = 14630gp.
Pitlords 09-06-06, 05:31 PM	Pairings Done +11: Uther +10: Caterane +5: Vathelokai +4: Erithmu, Stormwind +3: lonewolf +2: Ayyini, Iced, McJarvis +1: Abyssal, DSugui, Sauro, User, Zelck, Zevox +0: hogarth, Telin, MWB, Niqil
hogarth 09-06-06, 05:34 PM	I should have noted this before the pairings, but Tunagolem's character Shfifon is messed up. A lvl1 halfling rogue afflicted tiny wereviper should be ECL4, not ECL3; even the tiny viper's 1/4 HD counts as a hit die, doesn't it? The saves are screwed up; a tiny viper does not have a base Reflex save of +5! I'm sure there are more errors in there, but first and foremost it's not an ECL3 character; it shouldn't be in the ECL3 pairings.
TelinArtho 09-06-06, 05:49 PM	I should have noted this before the pairings, but Tunagolem's character Shfifon is messed up. A lvl1 halfling rogue afflicted tiny wereviper should be ECL4, not ECL3; even the tiny viper's 1/4 HD counts as a hit die, doesn't it? The saves are screwed up; a tiny viper does not have a base Reflex save of +5! I'm sure there are more errors in there, but first and foremost it's not an ECL3 character; it shouldn't be in the ECL3 pairings. Yeah - I'm going to have to say that this character might have too many errors to really be paired this week. PM Cat about it and include myself and tunagolem in the PM. @NiQil - preliminary thoughts for our interleague fight have been sent via PM.
Zevox 09-06-06, 05:49 PM	I should have noted this before the pairings, but Tunagolem's character Shfifon is messed up. A lvl1 halfling rogue afflicted tiny wereviper should be ECL4, not ECL3; even the tiny viper's 1/4 HD counts as a hit die, doesn't it? The saves are screwed up; a tiny viper does not have a base Reflex save of +5! I'm sure there are more errors in there, but first and foremost it's not an ECL3 character; it shouldn't be in the ECL3 pairings. You're right - its a totally illegal character, since Tunagolem doesn't have the credits to make an ECL 4 character, and it does need to have its animal HD. So a quick PM to Cat will turn that fight into a 1-on-1 between Darrgon and Reginald, and Tunagolem will either need to get the credits and fix the character, or make a different character. Zevox
TelinArtho 09-06-06, 05:54 PM	PM has been sent to all of us involved plus cat and pitlords
Zevox 09-06-06, 05:59 PM	Another pairings oddity: Pestilence (NiQil) vs. Ihdald (Milov) & Indrithia (Zevox) : Zevox [City] [Inter-League] @ Cat - Yeah, either Indrithia will need to be swapped from this, or I'll need to be assigned a different fight. Zevox
MindWandererB 09-06-06, 06:40 PM	@Telin and Iced: Tactics are away.
Erithmu 09-06-06, 06:59 PM	You could choose the easy way and just surrender to The Chameleon. Its not as if that would make much difference on the outcome of the fight, right? :P I might surprise you some. BTW I am going to use the current version of Ignatius as posted for this fight, with all previous 3FC info. PM has been sent to all of us involved plus cat and pitlords Would have been nice if you included the pitlord who was running the fight. I'm just going to tell you right now that what once was a hunter fight is now a 1v1. Wrong league, almost incomprehensable char sheet, and more errors than The Chameleon has rank in hide and MS combined. EDIT: Dracazar's Miniquest = Here
Milov 09-06-06, 08:03 PM	@ ayyiniwindryder : Tactics for Ventr sent. Can't start my other tactics till the whole "Zevox can't pitlord his own fight" thing is altered, so that'll wait a bit I suppose.
Zevox 09-06-06, 08:41 PM	@ lonewolf - Tactics for Annalina Vale in the big hunter fight PMed. I'm shocked to say that despite my initial terror when I saw it I think I have a chance there. And yeah, I'll work out tactics with Milov once we have a new pitlord. Zevox
Etiquette_Gnome 09-06-06, 08:58 PM	Le sigh, it's going to take awhile to get used to this whole GMT AND CET thing, especially with me being in a CST zone. I hath edited errors in my character as have been reported in the Prison section, but it seems I was about 5 hours too late in editing. And...looking at my character, I'm beginning to wonder if a skill based character can do much of anything in this arena (starting to think about a human monk 2/fighter 1, or some kind of THF).
Erithmu 09-06-06, 09:01 PM	@Dsugui: Tactics for Ignatius sent, come get some Lonewolf.
McJarvis 09-06-06, 09:32 PM	@My Gladiators Be aware that I found some violations on all gladiators fighting for me this week. Only two of them were very major, though.(imo)
NiQil 09-06-06, 09:56 PM	@ Cat: For some reason, the edit of my subject line of Famine did not take. I had set him to ready, but I now see that it didn't get saved and is currently listed as a blank line. Is there any chance of getting that fixed and getting him paired? Even in a monster fight? The boards have been really clunky for me the last couple of days, and I can only assume that my subject line got eaten in the process.
Erithmu 09-06-06, 09:57 PM	@ Cat: For some reason, the edit of my subject line of Famine did not take. I had set him to ready, but I now see that it didn't get saved and is currently listed as a blank line. Is there any chance of getting that fixed and getting him paired? Even in a monster fight? The boards have been really clunky for me the last couple of days, and I can only assume that my subject line got eaten in the process. If Cat approves, I'll pick it up.
Sindorin 09-06-06, 09:59 PM	There is definitely something going on with editing posts, especially character posts. In the prison thread I just finished rectifying one of the longest error citations i've ever seen done to a character - these were all stupid errors that I had actually fixed before pairing last week, and for some reason they didn't stick. Go figure...
NiQil 09-06-06, 10:11 PM	Another pairings oddity: Pestilence (NiQil) vs. Ihdald (Milov) & Indrithia (Zevox) : Zevox [City] [Inter-League] @ Cat - Yeah, either Indrithia will need to be swapped from this, or I'll need to be assigned a different fight. Zevox @ Cat: For some reason, the edit of my subject line of Famine did not take. I had set him to ready, but I now see that it didn't get saved and is currently listed as a blank line. Is there any chance of getting that fixed and getting him paired? Even in a monster fight? The boards have been really clunky for me the last couple of days, and I can only assume that my subject line got eaten in the process. If Cat approves, I'll pick it up. @ Erithmu: Thanks for the offer. I appreciate it. I see an opportunity to fix another problem, however. Would you be willing to pick up the fight listed above that Zevox was assigned in error? That would solve that pitlord issue. @ Zevox: Would you then be willing to pick up a fight for Famine (monster or otherwise) if 'Rith takes over the error above?
Erithmu 09-06-06, 10:19 PM	@ Erithmu: Thanks for the offer. I appreciate it. I see an opportunity to fix another problem, however. Would you be willing to pick up the fight listed above that Zevox was assigned in error? That would solve that pitlord issue. @ Zevox: Would you then be willing to pick up a fight for Famine (monster or otherwise) if 'Rith takes over the error above? Sure, this is of course assuming Cat approves.
Erithmu 09-06-06, 10:33 PM	@Sauro: Tactics for Shadowsong are away.
hogarth 09-06-06, 11:16 PM	@Erithmu: Tactics for Reginald Molehusband sent.
TheMagister 09-06-06, 11:24 PM	Le sigh, it's going to take awhile to get used to this whole GMT AND CET thing, especially with me being in a CST zone. I hath edited errors in my character as have been reported in the Prison section, but it seems I was about 5 hours too late in editing. It appears that E_G last editted his character at 05:23 p.m. Central (or somewhere around there) on 9/6/06. That would normally call for an auto-loss for editing after deadline. I would humbly request from Zevox that he not hand E_G an autoloss on his first foray into the Arena, and let us slug it out anyhow. Still, the pitlord and the Powers that Be hold final jurisdiction. TM
Erithmu 09-06-06, 11:33 PM	@Erithmu: Tactics for Reginald Molehusband sent. Response sent @Telin: Tactics recieved
McJarvis 09-07-06, 12:49 AM	One of my gladiators I'm pitlording for has an extra level 1 spell prepared. How do I deal with this? Remove a random spell from their spells known?
Erithmu 09-07-06, 12:54 AM	One of my gladiators I'm pitlording for has an extra level 1 spell prepared. How do I deal with this? Remove a random spell from their spells known? Send him a PM and ask him, and then have him pass that info on to his opponent
King Uther 09-07-06, 02:13 AM	@Zevox I have 2 multi-character fights this week. I'll switch one with you. @Etiquette Gnome Skill characters are useful, but not every skill is. I prefer to have some skills, but many of them are not battle suited. Stealth is nice, and can help to push the battle a certain way or to evade sighting while healing, and the monk's offensive weapons with the skills is nice. However, as a whole, skills are a secondary strength in straight combat, with only afew being extremely powerful(hide/MS, listen/spot, diplomacy/HA, forgery, and possibly sleight of hand to name some).
Caterane 09-07-06, 03:12 AM	Shfifon (tunagolem) => Darrgon (TelinArtho) => Reginald (hogarth) : Erithmu [Cavern] [Hunter] has been changed to: Darrgon (TelinArtho) vs. Reginald (hogarth) : Erithmu [Cavern] Swapped the pitlords of these fights: Pestilence (NiQil) vs. Ihdald (Milov) & Indrithia (Zevox) : Zelck [City] [Inter-League] Death (NiQil) vs. Neidr Bresent (bgt) : Zevox [Arena] and added: Famine (NiQil) vs. Unknown Monster : Erithmu [Forest] Credit Changes: Zelck +1° Erithmu +1° Zevox -1° NiQil -1°
False_Keraptis 09-07-06, 04:30 AM	@ ayyiniwindryder and TelinArtho: tactics sent
Vathelokai 09-07-06, 08:55 AM	Tactics sent to all pitlords -Zodiac vs Ventr -Denshi vs Sunstroke -Saffron vs Anixx Man I hate having my quest builds in the arena.
Erithmu 09-07-06, 09:27 AM	@Niqil: Monster fight info is up.
hogarth 09-07-06, 10:04 AM	@SauroGrenom: Tactics for Treetall Oakleg sent. Have fun fighting a druid in the forest, Shadowsong...
hogarth 09-07-06, 01:49 PM	@Abyssal, DSugui: Both of your tactics have been received. I plan on running the fight tonight or tomorrow night. @Erithmu: I sent a PM addressing your concerns with Reg Molehusband's tactics.
Erithmu 09-07-06, 01:52 PM	@Erithmu: I sent a PM addressing your concerns with Reg Molehusband's tactics. yea I got it ... The fight is almost over, however I am in the 'tactics have broken completely phase of the fight'
DSugui 09-07-06, 01:55 PM	@King Uther: Tactics for Daisy and Dronnar sent by PM. @Gladiators of the held over fight: I will work on it tonight. Today is Brazil's Independence Day and we have to celebrate http://www.buddy-icons.info/img/smile/1424.gif
TelinArtho 09-07-06, 01:57 PM	@DSugui - please note the violation on Little Daisy in the Prison thread... Little Daisy can't cast spells... (just kidding - I assume it was just an oversight - so please let King Uther and your opponents know what armor you "really" have...)
hogarth 09-07-06, 01:59 PM	yea I got it ... The fight is almost over, however I am in the 'tactics have broken completely phase of the fight' Hopefully his, not mine. ;) (just kidding...)
Erithmu 09-07-06, 02:13 PM	Darrgon vs Reginald is up. lets see ... A one point I had 2 dogs, 2 horses, 2 gladiators and a psi crystal to organize. Then I had another dog appear later. I think 3 things died ...
hogarth 09-07-06, 02:20 PM	Darrgon vs Reginald is up. lets see ... A one point I had 2 dogs, 2 horses, 2 gladiators and a psi crystal to organize. Then I had another dog appear later. I think 3 things died ... I'll let Telin comment on the fight. I can't complain too much since Reg won, but I specifically mentioned levitating before moving out. Also, the Force Screen was supposed be manifested from the power stone and Psionic Levitate from memory (for a total of 9 pp used); Reg doesn't have a stone with Psionic Levitate in it.
Zevox 09-07-06, 02:20 PM	Well, looks like I'm going to have to retract my previous statement of possibly being able to take a third fight this week - its two days into school and I'm already questioning the wisdom of taking more than one :( . @ Zelck - Once Milov gets home from school, we'll see what we can throw together. Though somehow I get the feeling the result is a foregone conclusion... Zevox
DSugui 09-07-06, 02:45 PM	@DSugui - please note the violation on Little Daisy in the Prison thread... Little Daisy can't cast spells... (just kidding - I assume it was just an oversight - so please let King Uther and your opponents know what armor you "really" have...) Err... seven months and nobody noticed that until now... Not just my fault :embarrass The issue has been PMed to the involved parties and will be fixed when the fight is over.
lonewolf 09-07-06, 03:20 PM	@KingUther: Kittys tactics sent. I wonder if Kitty is ever going to be in a 1on1 fight. He was in 3 FFA and 2 Team Battles so far...
McJarvis 09-07-06, 03:25 PM	Gladiators can opt to leave their equipment at home to reduce weight carried, right?
Erithmu 09-07-06, 03:29 PM	Gladiators can opt to leave their equipment at home to reduce weight carried, right? This was an old rule, however now if it is not listed in equipment at home, you bring it. This is to prevent people from leaving something like full plate at home before fighting a wizard.
Stormwind 09-07-06, 03:34 PM	If it is not marked in the at home section of a gladiator's equipment, then the gladiator has to bring it in to the arena. They can drop the equipment once they are in the arena, but they have to bring it unless it is specifically listed in at home equipment.
MindWandererB 09-07-06, 03:36 PM	And if it's something like armor, which take time to take off, you have to do it after the fight starts. You can start off holding stuff in your hands and immediately drop it, except for worn items.
DocNessuno 09-07-06, 03:44 PM	@ McJarvis: Valen Sky (Hirumajoe) vs. Saunginel (DocNessumo) Tactics sent, PM me for any question Sent also a PM to Hirumajoe with the deleted spell and another PM to you for sheet errors @ Lonewolf: Azhran Deathstalker (DocNessuno) Vs Alexander (UserNamer) Tactics sent, PM me for any question
MindWandererB 09-07-06, 03:51 PM	Immediately relevant question: I notice that Gaston's Operation is EL 9, as is appropriate for the task. However, he's an EL 10 character on his 3rd fight in a sequence! He's not supposed to be allowed to do MQs less than his ECL during a cycle. Is this an exception to the rule? If so, it's pretty abusive, and lets a character finish a cycle more easily than usual.
hogarth 09-07-06, 03:54 PM	He's not supposed to be allowed to do MQs less than his ECL during a cycle. Is this an exception to the rule? If so, it's pretty abusive, and lets a character finish a cycle more easily than usual. Is that any more abusive than letting a character finish his cycle with a Full Activity in Week 3 (which is allowed, as far as I know)?
TelinArtho 09-07-06, 03:58 PM	Immediately relevant question: I notice that Gaston's Operation is EL 9, as is appropriate for the task. However, he's an EL 10 character on his 3rd fight in a sequence! He's not supposed to be allowed to do MQs less than his ECL during a cycle. Is this an exception to the rule? If so, it's pretty abusive, and lets a character finish a cycle more easily than usual. Hmm - hadn't thought of that. I made it EL 9 because the EL is set by the structure (Structure Class (3) Squared). I'll PM Cat to get a resolution. Is that any more abusive than letting a character finish his cycle with a Full Activity in Week 3 (which is allowed, as far as I know)? Full activities cannot be done during the cycle - only outside of the cycle.
Stormwind 09-07-06, 03:58 PM	Immediately relevant question: I notice that Gaston's Operation is EL 9, as is appropriate for the task. However, he's an EL 10 character on his 3rd fight in a sequence! He's not supposed to be allowed to do MQs less than his ECL during a cycle. Is this an exception to the rule? If so, it's pretty abusive, and lets a character finish a cycle more easily than usual. As far as I can tell, it is legal. With a normal miniquest I think that you are right, however this is an operation, not a normal miniquest.
waywreth 09-07-06, 04:07 PM	Do note that Gaston is frozen anyway...
MindWandererB 09-07-06, 04:11 PM	Frozen or not, it can be abused. What if you sent Gaston on a raid against a Class B structure as the first fight of his cycle? Then on his second, he'd be at almost full power, because he only used enough resources to beat an EL 6 encounter (easy). Not fair to his subsequent opponents.
lonewolf 09-07-06, 04:13 PM	Important question: Energy Adaption ... The power protects your equipment as well. ... Does Specified Energy Adaption(Acid) protect my equipment from a Delvers Corrosive Slime?
Erithmu 09-07-06, 04:16 PM	For whatever the the spell specifies so if it is for 10 points, then it sucks up the first 10 hp of acid damage
TelinArtho 09-07-06, 04:20 PM	@Erithmu - Re: Darrgon's fight Well, I do have some issue with the fight. In my tactics, here's what I said about summoning: After buffing, double move out of the starting area towards the center of the arena, or - if he's already in sight - make sure I am more than a 5ft step from the horses and start casting SMII for a celestial Riding dog. Follow that up with a SMI for a celestial dog and repeat. If needed recall and recast Celestial dogs until they take him down. My hope is that the horses have trouble with hitting me while I do my summons. If the horses try to help Reginald, bear in mind that they are magical beasts - so the horses will need to be pushed to attack. Also - protection from evil does not protect him against these good-aligned summons. In the fight, I heard something coming, but still didn't see anything - and more importantly - I didn't see Reginald. My summons were supposed to be used against him - ignoring the horses. If you feel I wasn't clear about this in my tactics - I can accept that. If you feel I was clear about that - then I would appreciate adjusting the fight accordingly.
hogarth 09-07-06, 04:26 PM	If you feel I wasn't clear about this in my tactics - I can accept that. If you feel I was clear about that - then I would appreciate adjusting the fight accordingly. I have no problem with changes to the fight, as long as you have Reg following his original tactics as well (levitating immediately and moving slowly along the roof of the cavern). If Darrgon wants to ignore the amazing grappling horses, so much the better! :D
Erithmu 09-07-06, 04:28 PM	@Telin: thats a fair statement. I just missed used 'he' for anything, and not specifically for Reginald. I have enough time that I can revisit the fight. @Hogarth: I'll get you airborne sooner then. Won't happen for a bit so don't expect a quick response on this.
hogarth 09-07-06, 04:32 PM	@Telin: thats a fair statement. I just missed used 'he' for anything, and not specifically for Reginald. I have enough time that I can revisit the fight. @Hogarth: I'll get you airborne sooner then. Won't happen for a bit so don't expect a quick response on this. Sure thing. Also, don't forget Reginald's horses have the "Reckless Offense" feat that they can use when attacking.
McJarvis 09-07-06, 04:51 PM	@ McJarvis: Valen Sky (Hirumajoe) vs. Saunginel (DocNessumo) Tactics sent, PM me for any question Sent also a PM to Hirumajoe with the deleted spell and another PM to you for sheet errors This is the second set of tactics that hasn't arrived in my PM box. Was there a glitch this morning or something(or is this affecting anyone else?)
Zelck 09-07-06, 05:54 PM	@Usernamer: Tactics for Andurwin sent a while back. Please PM me if you have any questions.
hogarth 09-07-06, 07:43 PM	@lonewolf: Sent tactics for Kilpquabjeg (such as they are).
Zevox 09-07-06, 08:29 PM	@ Zelck - Tactics for Indrithia & Ihdald (vs Pestilence) have been PMed. Takes a lot less time to work those out when you don't need to do so via the internet. It appears that E_G last editted his character at 05:23 p.m. Central (or somewhere around there) on 9/6/06. That would normally call for an auto-loss for editing after deadline. I would humbly request from Zevox that he not hand E_G an autoloss on his first foray into the Arena, and let us slug it out anyhow. Still, the pitlord and the Powers that Be hold final jurisdiction. TM I must have missed this when I got home from class today. Yeah, since its his first time in the arena and seems to have been an honest mistake, plus you don't have a problem with it, I'm willing to let it slide so long as no objections come from those Powers that Be you mentioned. Send me tactics anytime. Zevox
NiQil 09-07-06, 10:37 PM	@ Erithmu: Tactics for Famine sent via PM @ Zelck: Tactics for Pestilence sent via PM @ King Uther: Tactics for War sent via email (your PM box is full) @ Zevox: Tactics for Death sent via PM
Erithmu 09-07-06, 10:44 PM	@Niqil: got em EDIT: And response sent. @Telin, Hogarth: Rerun complete, check for correct tactics, errors and please see the note at the end.
TheMagister 09-07-06, 11:13 PM	Roger-roger. Starting tactics now. Now that I'M the one with the map disadvantage, don't expect overly brilliant tactics this time. =) @Etiquette_Gnome: You're welcome! :D TM
Traevanon 09-07-06, 11:16 PM	@McJarvis: Tactics sent.
DSugui 09-07-06, 11:37 PM	@Erithmu, Telin, Ravashack: For my sanity's sake, I intend to discard everything from Round 7 on instead of just fixing what is a problem. This means I will make the rolls again according to the new situations that will arise. Do you guys are ok with this? I was going to fix the fight now, but I will wait until you guys respond to this.
Erithmu 09-07-06, 11:42 PM	Fine by me
TheMagister 09-08-06, 12:02 AM	@Zevox: tactics for Rubicanti vs. Con-whateverhisnameis (Etiquette_Gnome) sent via PM. Good luck new guy, and be welcome! {Bill Cosby voice}THE BEATINGS -- WILL NOW -- BEGIN!! TM
Erithmu 09-08-06, 12:10 AM	@Zevox: tactics for Rubicanti vs. Con-whateverhisnameis (Etiquette_Gnome) sent via PM. Good luck new guy, and be welcome! {Bill Cosby voice}THE BEATINGS -- WILL NOW -- BEGIN!! TM I thought it went {Bill Cosby voice} My wife grabs a yardstick. She holds it in her hand like a samurai warrior. She then makes an annoucement that the beatings will begin by saying 'I HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF THIS!!!!!'
ayyiniwindryder 09-08-06, 12:12 AM	@Abyssal Stalker - tactics for Ivan sent @Milov, False_Keraptis, Vathelokai - tactics received @NedTheDestroyer - still waiting on tactics
TheMagister 09-08-06, 12:29 AM	Gotta K.I.S.S. it to make it funny. Didn't wanna get TOO involved. =) I miss comedians like Bill Cosby and Sindbad. I'm pretty sick of Chris Rock and the F-U club (nothing against Chris...he's just the first that sprang to mind). TM
McJarvis 09-08-06, 12:33 AM	@ Traevanon: tactics received. @Hirumajoe: tactics received
TelinArtho 09-08-06, 02:04 AM	@Erithmu, Telin, Ravashack: For my sanity's sake, I intend to discard everything from Round 7 on instead of just fixing what is a problem. This means I will make the rolls again according to the new situations that will arise. Do you guys are ok with this? I was going to fix the fight now, but I will wait until you guys respond to this. That's fine I guess.
lonewolf 09-08-06, 02:14 AM	@Cat: Karens tactics sent @DSugui: The Chameleons tactics sent yesterday.
TelinArtho 09-08-06, 02:14 AM	@Niqil: got em EDIT: And response sent. @Telin, Hogarth: Rerun complete, check for correct tactics, errors and please see the note at the end. I am much more fine with this run than the original - thank you for humoring me. Please adjust the used expendables. I don't believe I used Reduce Person in this run of the fight. Thanks.
TelinArtho 09-08-06, 02:17 AM	I'm still missing tactics for Maglu (Sjiggie) and for Joanni (Anaconda). If I get one or the other by the morning - I should be able to get it done tomorrow.
NedTheDestroyer 09-08-06, 02:27 AM	@ayyiniwindryder - Tactics for R'y on Gundmir sent. Thanks for pl'ing. Ned
King Uther 09-08-06, 03:25 AM	@gladiators PM box clear. Somehow I got 17 PMs in the last day. Weird.
hogarth 09-08-06, 08:21 AM	Valek Usher vs. the Undertaker has been posted here: http://community.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10022433&postcount=928 Sometimes it helps to be lucky! Any constructive criticism on the fight will be welcome.
hogarth 09-08-06, 08:26 AM	I am much more fine with this run than the original - thank you for humoring me. Please adjust the used expendables. I don't believe I used Reduce Person in this run of the fight. Thanks. @Erithmu: Also, Reg used 9 pp (Brain Lock x2, Levitate) and power stones of Vigor, Inertial Armor and Force Shield. You had him manifesting Force Shield from memory and Levitate from a stone, but he doesn't have a stone with Psionic Levitate on it. Just to clarify: both horses survived this time, right?
Erithmu 09-08-06, 09:22 AM	@Erithmu: Also, Reg used 9 pp (Brain Lock x2, Levitate) and power stones of Vigor, Inertial Armor and Force Shield. You had him manifesting Force Shield from memory and Levitate from a stone, but he doesn't have a stone with Psionic Levitate on it. Just to clarify: both horses survived this time, right? Nitpick: when you call a specific stone a stone of 'floating' a assume that it has levitate. What did you do power up an ioun stone with the powers? Yes both horses lived, and items used are fixed for both sides
Abyssal Stalker 09-08-06, 10:26 AM	Valek Usher vs. the Undertaker has been posted here: http://community.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10022433&postcount=928 Sometimes it helps to be lucky! Any constructive criticism on the fight will be welcome. Well, I can't find anything else that would save me than this: Try Again Yes. You can try to hear something that you failed to hear previously with no penalty. I'm not sure about this, but I don't know if you should roll twice for move silently, only the active listen check. This is something that I've been considering many times, but haven't had a clear answer. Also there is another thing that surprises me every time. There is absolutely nothing wrong with your intreperation of the rules, but still... When moving at a speed greater than one-half but less than your full speed, you take a -5 penalty. It’s practically impossible (-20 penalty) to move silently while running or charging. What happened to full speed, meaning double move? There is quite a lot between running (moving 4x your speed) and a double move (moving 2x your speed). My common sense tells me all the time that a double move should be done with a -10 penalty. Is it just me? I thought that I had a pretty good chance of winning the fight, but then Lady Luck stepped in and turned things upside down! Oh yeah, you have listed the Shield spell mistakenly being a memorized spell. Taker never had it memorized so it has to come from a scroll!
DSugui 09-08-06, 10:31 AM	And I though I was doomed... It's the first time Valek gets lucky (don't spoil that, Abyssal Stalker...) Thanks for the run, hogarth.
Abyssal Stalker 09-08-06, 10:35 AM	And I though I was doomed... It's the first time Valek gets lucky (don't spoil that, Abyssal Stalker...) Thanks for the run, hogarth. Hey, man. Gods were supposed to hate you!
hogarth 09-08-06, 10:38 AM	Well, I can't find anything else that would save me than this: I'm not sure about this, but I don't know if you should roll twice for move silently, only the active listen check. This is something that I've been considering many times, but haven't had a clear answer. I think you're right on this point. I can go through and redo the fight with that in mind. Also there is another thing that surprises me every time. There is absolutely nothing wrong with your intreperation of the rules, but still... What happened to full speed, meaning double move? There is quite a lot between running (moving 4x your speed) and a double move (moving 2x your speed). My common sense tells me all the time that a double move should be done with a -10 penalty. Is it just me? I thought about this too, but I couldn't find any listed penalties other than -5 or -20. Note that charging (which is a double move at maximum) also takes a -20 penalty. If you can get an Elder ruling for a different penalty, I'll take that into consideration. I thought that I had a pretty good chance of winning the fight, but then Lady Luck stepped in and turned things upside down! Oh yeah, you have listed the Shield spell mistakenly being a memorized spell. Taker never had it memorized so it has to come from a scroll! Those first-round critical hits are tough! Keep in mind that you'll probably only get a Scorching Ray off before losing since I'll be keeping Valek's attack roll. EDIT: I forgot -- you have Mirror Image on. Any comments, DSugui/Stalker?
DSugui 09-08-06, 10:45 AM	The only thing I can say is that Abyssal's claim has no effect in the fight. A character can actively listen in his round, but the reactive listen occurs in the opponent's round. So, on round 8, Valek would make active listen checks on his round against Undertaker's MS from the round before, and reactive listen checks on Undertaker's round against his new MS. Even if you keep the rolls in the order, Round 8 would be like that: Listen 18+7=25 vs. Move Silently 8+6-20+10=4 And the fight wouldn't change.
Abyssal Stalker 09-08-06, 11:20 AM	So, on round 8, Valek would make active listen checks on his round against Undertaker's MS from the round before, and reactive listen checks on Undertaker's round against his new MS. Even if you keep the rolls in the order, Round 8 would be like that: Listen 18+7=25 vs. Move Silently 8+6-20+10=4 And the fight wouldn't change. This says everything. No need to edit the fight - it was more a desperate last effort to save the day than something big I would disagree with. An arrow in the head is an arrow in the head. I probably should get myself a healing device. Thanks hogarth and congrats to DSugui on your win!
hogarth 09-08-06, 11:40 AM	This says everything. No need to edit the fight - it was more a desperate last effort to save the day than something big I would disagree with. An arrow in the head is an arrow in the head. I probably should get myself a healing device. Thanks hogarth and congrats to DSugui on your win! I made the minor edits (I put the changed text in italics); they didn't change the fight as DSugui pointed out.
Sjiggie 09-08-06, 12:12 PM	TelinArtho -> Tactics send bye PM
Zelck 09-08-06, 12:17 PM	@Usernamer: My Psicrystal should be running (4x movement) in its search pattern around the arena. Thanks :).
TelinArtho 09-08-06, 01:44 PM	Kervan Sheharath (MindWandererB) vs Maglu "Schadowking" Hrugg (Sjiggie) is up. Some amazing rolls on one side (not just attacks - also spot/listen checks...) decided this one.
Abyssal Stalker 09-08-06, 01:58 PM	Izumi vs Ivan Banai is done. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10025012&postcount=931) Check for mistakes.
TelinArtho 09-08-06, 01:59 PM	Immediately relevant question: I notice that Gaston's Operation is EL 9, as is appropriate for the task. However, he's an EL 10 character on his 3rd fight in a sequence! He's not supposed to be allowed to do MQs less than his ECL during a cycle. Is this an exception to the rule? If so, it's pretty abusive, and lets a character finish a cycle more easily than usual. Cat responded to the PM and indicated that the EL of the miniquests for all operations are set at the EL of the questor(s). However, in the instance of miniquests against structures, they also have a minimum EL. So - his MQ has been adjusted to EL10 accordingly.
hogarth 09-08-06, 02:08 PM	I notice that Izumi used an over-large kusuri-gama in the battle. According to the D&D FAQ, over- or under-sized reach weapons do not increase the wielder's reach. EDIT: I misremembered, sorry. http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/Main35FAQv08162006.zip
MindWandererB 09-08-06, 02:12 PM	Kervan Sheharath (MindWandererB) vs Maglu "Schadowking" Hrugg (Sjiggie) is up. Some amazing rolls on one side (not just attacks - also spot/listen checks...) decided this one. Little thing: used two arrows in this fight. You had me very worried for a while there... Kervan was failing most of his checks for a while, so I thought it was Maglu with the good luck....
TelinArtho 09-08-06, 02:14 PM	Actually - that only applies to smaller sized reach weapons: A reach weapon doubles its weilder's natural reach, but only if the weapon is at least of an appropriate size for the wielder. Wielding a "too-small" reach weapon grants no reach. @MWB - fixed.
TelinArtho 09-08-06, 02:18 PM	Izumi vs Ivan Banai is done. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10025012&postcount=931) Check for mistakes. @Abyssal - Ivan's longbow damage is correct. The error is that the +1 enhancement isn't clearly marked in the attacks section (you can confirm that it is a +1 comp bow in the equipment section).
Abyssal Stalker 09-08-06, 02:47 PM	Yes, you're correct. It should be listed more carefully in the attacks section. Funny, I even checked his equipment section but somehow missed the whole +1. I just read "Mighty (+2) composite longbow". I must be blind. :)
TelinArtho 09-08-06, 03:36 PM	Gaston has successfully thwarted the powerful guardians of the Townhall - a pair of Elder Xorns. Ironically enough, he might have been worse off against the original creature when the quest was EL9... a night hag (SR25!) But who knows... [EDIT] Hold that thought - bit of a calculation error in there... Resolved.
Macbrea 09-08-06, 04:02 PM	Looks fine to me. Izumi is a pretty straight forward fight. She either is taken down from a distance or will get very lucky with a hit. Dropping the monk down to having to fight hand to hand pretty much ended it. Good match.
Zevox 09-08-06, 05:14 PM	@ TM, NiQil, & bgt - Tactics for Rubicanti, Death, and Neidr (respectively) recieved. @ Etiquette_Gnome - Still awaiting tactics for Carandol. Zevox
Erithmu 09-08-06, 05:22 PM	Famine vs Team Scaly is up yea .....
McJarvis 09-08-06, 05:48 PM	Still no tactics from Dr.Funk. Though, as I recall he waits 'till the last second... Edit- Wait- I think the deadline is already passed...
TelinArtho 09-08-06, 05:50 PM	Hmm - I talked to him yesterday and he was writing them. I'll give him a call and see if he forgot to send them.
ayyiniwindryder 09-08-06, 05:51 PM	@Abyssal - Fght looks correct, if a bit disapointing for me. Just a minor nitpick, though; you seem to have ignored my 3 damage in round 8. Thanks for Pitlording =)
McJarvis 09-08-06, 05:54 PM	Hmm - I talked to him yesterday and he was writing them. I'll give him a call and see if he forgot to send them. I've already not-received two sets of tactics this week when they were supposedly sent. Something fishy has been happenin with my pm box...if he sent them and they didn't get to me, no problem.
NiQil 09-08-06, 09:00 PM	Famine vs Team Scaly is up yea ..... Thanks for the run...I figured either I was getting trogs and lizards or gnolls and hyenas....I guessed gnolls and hyenas...fortunately my "tactics" worked here as well.
Ravashack 09-08-06, 09:33 PM	@Erithmu, Telin, Ravashack: For my sanity's sake, I intend to discard everything from Round 7 on instead of just fixing what is a problem. This means I will make the rolls again according to the new situations that will arise. Do you guys are ok with this? I was going to fix the fight now, but I will wait until you guys respond to this. Sorry, didn't see this till now. Fine by me.
TelinArtho 09-08-06, 10:48 PM	I've already not-received two sets of tactics this week when they were supposedly sent. Something fishy has been happenin with my pm box...if he sent them and they didn't get to me, no problem. Ironically enough - he apparently hasn't sent them yet. He would've sent them when I called him - but he's in the marching band at a high school football game tonight. I would say - if you can bear to wait until tomorrow afternoon - to do so. Otherwise - I can always pick up the fight if you don't want to wait. I tend to be the most forgiving for late tactics. If I don't receive tactics by Monday night - that's about when I decide to run it with default or surrender. But this is a thing that is different among each pitlord. If he fails at a fight - that's on his own problem.
McJarvis 09-09-06, 12:31 AM	Ironically enough - he apparently hasn't sent them yet. He would've sent them when I called him - but he's in the marching band at a high school football game tonight. I would say - if you can bear to wait until tomorrow afternoon - to do so. Otherwise - I can always pick up the fight if you don't want to wait. I tend to be the most forgiving for late tactics. If I don't receive tactics by Monday night - that's about when I decide to run it with default or surrender. But this is a thing that is different among each pitlord. If he fails at a fight - that's on his own problem. Is it up to me? I don't personally mind, but I don't want to take a default win away from his opponent if that is "normal policy".((I'm unemployed at the moment, so I have time to do the fight a bit late...though I'd prefere it sooner than later))
TelinArtho 09-09-06, 12:40 AM	The deadline is a soft deadline for tactics - only there to ensure that players keep up their end of the bargain by not wasting their pitlrods time waiting for tactics. It is up to the individual pitlord to determine what is truly the deadline - you are not forced to go with default tactics (or a default surrender in the absence of default tactics), unless you feel you won't have the time (or don't want to wait). Most of the people who I have talked to about the issue have stated that if their opponent didn't submit tactics on time - they would rather wait it out than be given the auto-win. Why? Because few people are here for just a win record - they actually want to test out their build. It is, in other words, entirely up to you.
Iced 09-09-06, 12:42 AM	@Lonewolf - Osiris' Tactics have been sent via PM. @DSugai - Anixx's tactics have been sent via PM.
McJarvis 09-09-06, 12:42 AM	It is, in other words, entirely up to you. Awsome. Tell him to send them in asap.
Etiquette_Gnome 09-09-06, 02:03 AM	@ Zevox - Carandol's tactics sent via PM
lonewolf 09-09-06, 03:24 AM	Azhran vs. Alexander is up. after a long time without anything happening, it was over pretty fast.
Abyssal Stalker 09-09-06, 04:10 AM	@Abyssal - Fght looks correct, if a bit disapointing for me. Just a minor nitpick, though; you seem to have ignored my 3 damage in round 8. Thanks for Pitlording =) Fixed! I also added the missing +1 damage to both of the shots - eventually bringing Izumi down to 4hp in the end. Too bad it wasn't enough to take her down. A close match!
Traevanon 09-09-06, 07:17 AM	@McJarvis: I didnt want to comment because its really your call whether to fight it out or not. The tactics deadline is there for the pitlord, not the opponent. Now that I can say something though, I'd rather see the battle fought than surrendered.
lonewolf 09-09-06, 07:26 AM	Luxt'l => Annalina => Kilpquabjeg => Osiris is up. All problems should be addressed this weekend since I will probably not be able to check the boards on Monday and tuesday.
DSugui 09-09-06, 10:25 AM	Ignatius (Erithmu) => Kraegin (TelinArtho) => Perius (Ravashack) REDUX is on Round 12, and I'd like some feedback before going on.
Erithmu 09-09-06, 10:43 AM	Ignatius (Erithmu) => Kraegin (TelinArtho) => Perius (Ravashack) REDUX is on Round 12, and I'd like some feedback before going on. I personally have no major issues, nor any minor issues (other than Perius only has 1 pp currently instead of 4)
TelinArtho 09-09-06, 10:44 AM	And this is why Thematic rolls are kept. DSugui - the rolls seem fine.
hogarth 09-09-06, 10:48 AM	Luxt'l => Annalina => Kilpquabjeg => Osiris is up. All problems should be addressed this weekend since I will probably not be able to check the boards on Monday and tuesday. @lonewolf: Some of the IMG tags are broken. Also, I don't know if the rewards were calculated correctly; I'm not clear how allies affect the rewards in hunter/free-for-all fights, but since Osiris (not to mention Annalina) had an ally, wouldn't Kilp's reward be greater than the unadjusted (winner + 2*loser) reward?
Ravashack 09-09-06, 10:53 AM	I personally have no major issues, nor any minor issues (other than Perius only has 1 pp currently instead of 4) You mean 0. 3 PP for Ego Whip base, 1 PP to make the +3 levels from Wild Surge actually do more Cha damage. I do find it humorous that Perius is doing more work for possibly less XP now though. :) Stupid 1s!
TelinArtho 09-09-06, 10:54 AM	@UserNamer - I'm fine with the fight for the most part - but the rewards need to be adjusted: Trillian costs 200gp to start with. This is applied after Ilendil receives a 25% penalty for the ally. So Illendil makes 400 - 25% = 300. In a line on the summary, include in the used Items (I guess) that Trillian costs the 200gp. Further - Andurwin gets a 25% bonus. So 1200xp/gp + 25% = 1500xp/gp.
DSugui 09-09-06, 10:55 AM	I personally have no major issues, nor any minor issues (other than Perius only has 1 pp currently instead of 4) Actually, he has 0 pp. Just forgot to edit. And this is why Thematic rolls are kept.Yeah, sorry. That's why I asked before rerolling everything...
lonewolf 09-09-06, 11:44 AM	@lonewolf: Some of the IMG tags are broken. Also, I don't know if the rewards were calculated correctly; I'm not clear how allies affect the rewards in hunter/free-for-all fights, but since Osiris (not to mention Annalina) had an ally, wouldn't Kilp's reward be greater than the unadjusted (winner + 2*loser) reward? both fixed.
DSugui 09-09-06, 01:26 PM	Ignatius (Erithmu) => Kraegin (TelinArtho) => Perius (Ravashack) is over. Let me know any issues.
Ravashack 09-09-06, 06:27 PM	Ignatius (Erithmu) => Kraegin (TelinArtho) => Perius (Ravashack) is over. Let me know any issues. I'm just curious why Perius just lies there to take a beating. He should still be able to at least Tumble to move, shouldn't he? I guess that's even more material to tack on to the weekly tactics then. And it looks like I really need to cut and paste "Use Psionic Shot whenever you use the Crystal Shard Dorje" in all my tactic submissions.
Erithmu 09-09-06, 06:36 PM	I'm just curious why Perius just lies there to take a beating. He should still be able to at least Tumble to move, shouldn't he? I guess that's even more material to tack on to the weekly tactics then. And it looks like I really need to cut and paste "Use Psionic Shot whenever you use the Crystal Shard Dorje" in all my tactic submissions. When prone, there is no option for tumbling away, SRD states that you can 'crawl' 5ft as a full round action that provokes an AoO If you did do this I don't think it would change the outcome on the basis that 2d6 won't finish me off, and if you wanted to refocus, that also provokes an AoO.
NiQil 09-09-06, 06:43 PM	And here's the FAQ's response to the issue... Can a character use the Tumble skill from a prone position? Specifically, if my character is prone, can he use Tumble to move out of a threatened square without provoking an attack of opportunity? According to a strict reading of the rules, no. The key phrase in the Tumble skill description is this: “Tumble at onehalf speed as part of normal movement. . . .” You can’t move “normally” while prone, thus you can’t use Tumble in this manner while prone. The only “normal” movement allowed while prone is to crawl 5 feet as a move action that provokes attacks of opportunity. I don’t think it stretches the rules unreasonably to allow a character to use Tumble while crawling, but since you can’t crawl at half speed (half of 5 feet is less than a full square), you’d have to take the –10 penalty on the Tumble check for using accelerated tumbling. Thus, a character could make a “crawling Tumble”—think of it as an “action roll” if you prefer—to move 5 feet as a move action without provoking attacks of opportunity; such an action would require a DC 15 Tumble check with a –10 penalty.
Ravashack 09-09-06, 06:45 PM	When prone, there is no option for tumbling away, SRD states that you can 'crawl' 5ft as a full round action that provokes an AoO If you did do this I don't think it would change the outcome on the basis that 2d6 won't finish me off, and if you wanted to refocus, that also provokes an AoO. It won't, no. And next time Perius is in a hunter fight I'll definitely have to emphasize in the tactics that he does NOT go for someone other than his target until his target is downed. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to do so in a Hunter fight (Yeah, let me give one of my opponents more XP and gold at my expense), but because I didn't specify it--it was only implied, and vaguely at best--in my tactics I let it slide. That won't happen again though.
Caterane 09-09-06, 07:37 PM	Karen vs a delver can be found here.
TheMagister 09-09-06, 08:39 PM	Some good luck followed you there, lonewolf. Good crit for Karen! TM
Zevox 09-10-06, 12:01 AM	@ lonewolf - No serious complaints from me. Luxt'l should have had to pick between images for the CDG, and failing one would've activated Larcalme's defend trick, but I seriously doubt that would be enough to kill her (that oh-so-stellar roll of 2 on a save vs sleep, followed by Larcalme rolling the same on his AoO, pretty much tells me the dice Gods' opinion of where Annalina should fall in this match...), and anything short of that doesn't change the fight. Pity I used that precious Mirror Image scroll to so little effect, but theres nothing for it. Thanks for the run. Zevox
lonewolf 09-10-06, 01:46 AM	Karen vs a delver can be found here. Finally I have some luck in a monster fight. While you misssed to activate my Warmind abilities, there is no reason to edit it in. thanks fo running it!
MindWandererB 09-10-06, 02:44 AM	Karen vs a delver can be found here. Well, the warmind abilities might counteract one moderate mistake: every hit Karen makes with her fists needs a DC 22 Reflex save or take 2d6-10 acid damage. A high roll could mean a few points of damage here. She's darn lucky she picked up that monk level, is all I have to say.
DocNessuno 09-10-06, 08:13 AM	@ Lonewolf, Azhran Deathstalker vs Alexander[ECL3] I think some of the fight is messed up, starting from Round 16, here: Alexander rages and tries to grapple the human. He succeeds easily and rams multiple armor spikes into his enemy. On Round 16 Alexander rolls a natural 20 for the touch attack needed to start a grapple, but this isn't an attack, and no damage is dealt from it, so it cannot be a critical. Also he proceeds to damage me in the same round, wich he cannot do, since both starting a grapple and damaging your opponent are done instead of an attack and alexander heve just 1. Also why Alexander is using a grapple check to damage me with armor spikes while i'm using a normal to-hit roll with the -4 penality for using a weapon in a grapple? I'm using spikes too. Sent also by PM
hogarth 09-10-06, 08:46 AM	@ lonewolf - No serious complaints from me. Luxt'l should have had to pick between images for the CDG, and failing one would've activated Larcalme's defend trick, but I seriously doubt that would be enough to kill her (that oh-so-stellar roll of 2 on a save vs sleep, followed by Larcalme rolling the same on his AoO, pretty much tells me the dice Gods' opinion of where Annalina should fall in this match...), and anything short of that doesn't change the fight. Although it doesn't say so in the rules, I assume that Luxt'l could nudge the images with his toe first to tell which one is real. Whether that would trigger the defend trick, I don't know.
lonewolf 09-10-06, 09:31 AM	I think some of the fight is messed up, starting from Round 16, here: Alexander rages and tries to grapple the human. He succeeds easily and rams multiple armor spikes into his enemy. On Round 16 Alexander rolls a natural 20 for the touch attack needed to start a grapple, but this isn't an attack, and no damage is dealt from it, so it cannot be a critical. Also he proceeds to damage me in the same round, wich he cannot do, since both starting a grapple and damaging your opponent are done instead of an attack and alexander heve just 1. From the CoCo Court Decisions post in the Prison: Q: Can you score a critical hit on a grapple? A: Yes, on the initial touch attack needed to start a grapple. If it is confirmed as a critical hit, a successful grapple check will deal double damage. This is the only time you may score a critical as a part of a grapple, as grapple checks are not attacks. And you do damage your opponent on the first round of grappling. You can evn choose to start a grapple, damage the opponent, and then choose not to maintain the grapple. Also why Alexander is using a grapple check to damage me with armor spikes while i'm using a normal to-hit roll with the -4 penality for using a weapon in a grapple? I'm using spikes too. When using armor spikes you can choose between both options and I used the option that seemed most effective from each characters perspective. Alexander has the much higher grapple mod and thus made grapple checks to damage you. Azhran chances to damage Alexander with a grapple check was lower than with the normal attack at -4.
Zevox 09-10-06, 09:34 AM	Death vs Neidr Bresent is finished. Don't blink, or you'll miss it. Zevox
DocNessuno 09-10-06, 10:30 AM	From the CoCo Court Decisions post in the Prison: And you do damage your opponent on the first round of grappling. You can evn choose to start a grapple, damage the opponent, and then choose not to maintain the grapple. Ok, i didn't know about this, fine. And you do damage your opponent on the first round of grappling. You can evn choose to start a grapple, damage the opponent, and then choose not to maintain the grapple. I just re-read the SRD and it seems to contraddict you: To start a grapple, you need to grab and hold your target. Starting a grapple requires a successful melee attack roll. If you get multiple attacks, you can attempt to start a grapple multiple times (at successively lower base attack bonuses). This implies that an attack is needed to start the grapple Then the step are: AoO: Ignored Grab: Hit Hold: Free action, Grapple check done, we are in a grapple now. Maintain grapple: Free action, Alexander moves in my square. Now the sequance started using Alexander 1st attack is complete, note that no damage is dealt, the only grapple check is required for the 'hold' step, and both the name and the description does'n refere to dealing damage. Now that we are in a grapple he can damage me: Damage Your Opponent: While grappling, you can deal damage to your opponent equivalent to an unarmed strike. Make an opposed grapple check in place of an attack. For this round Alexander have no more attacks left, he used them to start a grapple When using armor spikes you can choose between both options and I used the option that seemed most effective from each characters perspective. Alexander has the much higher grapple mod and thus made grapple checks to damage you. Azhran chances to damage Alexander with a grapple check was lower than with the normal attack at -4. Sorry, you are right here, When Alexander is ragin i have an higher chance to damage him in this way, (30% vs 20%), grapple check is better only if he's not in rage.
MindWandererB 09-10-06, 01:31 PM	Sorry, but that long-winded argument missed the very first part of the rules, quoted here for your convenience: Step 1: Attack of Opportunity. You provoke an attack of opportunity from the target you are trying to grapple. If the attack of opportunity deals damage, the grapple attempt fails. (Certain monsters do not provoke attacks of opportunity when they attempt to grapple, nor do characters with the Improved Grapple feat.) If the attack of opportunity misses or fails to deal damage, proceed to Step 2. Step 2: Grab. You make a melee touch attack to grab the target. If you fail to hit the target, the grapple attempt fails. If you succeed, proceed to Step 3. Step 3: Hold. Make an opposed grapple check as a free action. If you succeed, you and your target are now grappling, and you deal damage to the target as if with an unarmed strike.
NiQil 09-10-06, 02:29 PM	Death vs Neidr Bresent is finished. Don't blink, or you'll miss it. Zevox Wanted to point out something here for your own reference... Death grins and proceeds to step after Neidr and cut at her, chopping her clean in half with two almost leisurely strokes! (Attack [15]+10=25 and [20!]+5=25 vs AC 22, confirm [17]+5=22 vs AC 22, damage [3]+3-1(silver)=5 and [4]+[8]+[6]+9-3(silver)=24.) Forgot the silver reduction to his damage in the rolls, but its in the totals above. I wanted to point out that my damage calculations on my sheet already include the reduction for silver, so there was no need to remove additional damage here. Not fight affecting (fortunately), but wanted to point it out for your own edification.
Zevox 09-10-06, 10:15 PM	Wanted to point out something here for your own reference... I wanted to point out that my damage calculations on my sheet already include the reduction for silver, so there was no need to remove additional damage here. Not fight affecting (fortunately), but wanted to point it out for your own edification. You are correct, your sheet lists it correctly. My rolls were still incorrect, however - I rolled damage just from memory that all your horsemen have a 16 strength score and hold thier axes one-handed. You'll notice that the rolls have a +3 and +9 (respectively) to damage, which could only be without the -1 from silver. Zevox
McJarvis 09-10-06, 11:22 PM	@ My gladiators I woke up this morning feeling ill enough to keep me in bed all day & cause me a headache whenever affronted by bright lights. I'm feeling marginally better, and fully expect to finish both fights tomorrow.
Vathelokai 09-11-06, 01:08 AM	Holy Freaking Crap... Saffron vs. Anixx.
DSugui 09-11-06, 01:09 AM	Saffron Brass (Vathelokai) intercepts Anixx the Warbringer (Iced) is up HERE I still can't believe it.
King Uther 09-11-06, 01:42 AM	@gladiators Been working on closing on my house so I can move in next week. Fights will be up tomorrow. Sorry for the lateness of it. I really prefer to have them done by Sunday fr any edits.
ayyiniwindryder 09-11-06, 03:22 AM	Zodiac vs Ventr is up - the dice gods rule the fate of all Gundmir vs R'y is up - short and sweet
TheMagister 09-11-06, 03:31 AM	Zodiac vs Ventr is up - the dice gods rule the fate of all Gundmir vs R'y is up - short and sweet Ayyini, I hate to bring this up, but it's definitely an error and is hugely fight-changing. Ghoul Touch is NOT used up if the caster misses the initial touch attack. The caster can 'hold the charge' and attempt further touch attacks round after round until he lands a hit. The whole drow poison thing needn't ever have happened... Also, in the R'y vs. Gundmir fight: that energy ray attack is impossible. Energy Ray is close range (in R'y's case it has a range of 25' + 5' per 2 levels = 30') and R'y is ~70' away. There's also the matter of Gundmir having cover from R'y's firing position, but that doesn't matter vs. the natural 16 on the touch attack. R'y has to get closer, and Gundmir should have a chance to hear him approaching. Looking at R'y's tactics, it would appear that the thing to do would be to have R'y move along the wall toward Gundmir's position, first to the natural pillar, then to the corner of Gundmir's starting position. From there R'y can blast him with the attack that'll hit for sure. If Gundmir sees/hears him, then you'll have to refer to G's tactics to find out what to do next. TM
Vathelokai 09-11-06, 04:06 AM	Ayyini, I hate to bring this up, but it's definitely an error and is hugely fight-changing. Ghoul Touch is NOT used up if the caster misses the initial touch attack. The caster can 'hold the charge' and attempt further touch attacks round after round until he lands a hit. The whole drow poison thing needn't ever have happened... Yeah, what he said.:) Also, round 6 - seeing a charging opponent I would have readied to cast when within range; but since I forgot to put that in my tactics, don't edit it into the fight or anything. My tactics also say to use laugh/ghoul/ and cause fear before resorting to the expid retreat/drow poison tactic.
TheMagister 09-11-06, 05:09 AM	Yeah, what he said.:) Also, round 6 - seeing a charging opponent I would have readied to cast when within range; but since I forgot to put that in my tactics, don't edit it into the fight or anything. My tactics also say to use laugh/ghoul/ and cause fear before resorting to the expid retreat/drow poison tactic. Just watching out for my 'lil sister's keeper. ;)
Vathelokai 09-11-06, 05:48 AM	Just watching out for my 'lil sister's keeper. ;) Speaking of which, I should double check my sheet. Don't forget to bring some diamonds.
Zevox 09-11-06, 07:53 AM	Saffron Brass (Vathelokai) intercepts Anixx the Warbringer (Iced) is up HERE I still can't believe it. :OMG! ...dark and empty, are those dice ever going to let us finish an operation? First Asran falls to that super-crit, and now this... :uh-huh: Zevox
Abyssal Stalker 09-11-06, 08:18 AM	Yeah, we could change the name to UHTC. The Unlucky Habari Trade Company.
hogarth 09-11-06, 09:22 AM	...dark and empty, are those dice ever going to let us finish an operation? First Asran falls to that super-crit, and now this... :uh-huh: Zevox What are the odds that he would roll a 1 on his save? It must be one in a million!
Erithmu 09-11-06, 09:30 AM	What are the odds that he would roll a 1 on his save? It must be one in a million! [Thickly layered sarcasim] No ... closer to 1 in 20.
NedTheDestroyer 09-11-06, 09:54 AM	Also, in the R'y vs. Gundmir fight: that energy ray attack is impossible. Energy Ray is close range (in R'y's case it has a range of 25' + 5' per 2 levels = 30') and R'y is ~70' away. There's also the matter of Gundmir having cover from R'y's firing position, but that doesn't matter vs. the natural 16 on the touch attack. R'y has to get closer, and Gundmir should have a chance to hear him approaching. Looking at R'y's tactics, it would appear that the thing to do would be to have R'y move along the wall toward Gundmir's position, first to the natural pillar, then to the corner of Gundmir's starting position. From there R'y can blast him with the attack that'll hit for sure. If Gundmir sees/hears him, then you'll have to refer to G's tactics to find out what to do next. TM As much as I'd love the win I agree. the furthest i can shoot is 40ft and thats when fully augmented and surged.
ayyiniwindryder 09-11-06, 10:07 AM	Zodiac vs Ventr fixed Gundmir vs R'y fixed You know, I thought I would make a good Pitlord, being the quasi-rules-lawyer of my group. Everytime someone isn't sure on a rule, they ask me before looking it up. Of the six fights I have Pitlorded, 4 have had blatant rules violations in them. I'm seriously reconsidering doing this, because it seems that no matter how hard I try, I miss something. Any thoughts?
hogarth 09-11-06, 10:11 AM	You know, I thought I would make a good Pitlord, being the quasi-rules-lawyer of my group. Everytime someone isn't sure on a rule, they ask me before looking it up. Of the six fights I have Pitlorded, 4 have had blatant rules violations in them. I'm seriously reconsidering doing this, because it seems that no matter how hard I try, I miss something. Any thoughts? I think the arena can use all the pitlords it can get! As long as your fights aren't getting held over week after week, I don't think people mind a rerun now and then. Of course, if pitlording is pure torture for you, it's probably not worth it. Just my 2 cents.
Dracazar 09-11-06, 10:13 AM	Of the six fights I have Pitlorded, 4 have had blatant rules violations in them. I'm seriously reconsidering doing this, because it seems that no matter how hard I try, I miss something. Any thoughts? Practice will help a lot, please continue pitlording, I like a lot reading your nice-seeing fights! :D
TelinArtho 09-11-06, 10:47 AM	Zodiac vs Ventr fixed Gundmir vs R'y fixed You know, I thought I would make a good Pitlord, being the quasi-rules-lawyer of my group. Everytime someone isn't sure on a rule, they ask me before looking it up. Of the six fights I have Pitlorded, 4 have had blatant rules violations in them. I'm seriously reconsidering doing this, because it seems that no matter how hard I try, I miss something. Any thoughts? To echo others' statements - I'll just say that experience with the rules will make that ratio decrease significantly. Just imagine where you'll be when you are at 100+ fights. But having errors in your fights is just something that will happen. Each fight that you run is a learning experience.
DSugui 09-11-06, 10:49 AM	Think of this as an opportunity to learn about rules. When pitlording, I always keep the SRD opened to double check something I am in doubt, and even this way I make mistakes every now and then. So don't worry about mistakes, everyone makes them.
TelinArtho 09-11-06, 12:05 PM	Fnorri the Miser (False_Keraptis) vs Joanni (Anaconda) is up.
DSugui 09-11-06, 01:26 PM	Ignatius (Erithmu) intercepts The Chameleon (lonewolf) is on Round 10. I'd like some feedback (not from the parts involved) of what should happen now, since this is the most unusual fight I have ever pitlorded...
Zevox 09-11-06, 02:53 PM	You know, I thought I would make a good Pitlord, being the quasi-rules-lawyer of my group. Everytime someone isn't sure on a rule, they ask me before looking it up. Of the six fights I have Pitlorded, 4 have had blatant rules violations in them. I'm seriously reconsidering doing this, because it seems that no matter how hard I try, I miss something. Any thoughts? As the others have said, thats unavoidable. Every Pitlord makes mistakes in thier fights, even our Elders and Cat. The more practice you get at it, the fewer of them you'll make, and the easier it will be to run fights. And on the topic of running fights, I fear I won't be able to run my remaining one: Rubicanti (TheMagister) vs. Carandol Mornenion (Etiquette_Gnome) : Zevox [City] School and work have conspired to give me no spare time at all today (I can only get on now for about half an hour, plus for a little time after work tonight), and tomorrow I only have a few hours between classes that I need for homework. If anyone can pick this up, I'll forward the tactics to you tonight. Zevox
MindWandererB 09-11-06, 02:53 PM	@Ayyini: I concur. I'm the rules lawyer of my group as well--by a huge margin--and yet I've made quite a few mistakes myself. I do this for practice more than anything else.
Erithmu 09-11-06, 02:57 PM	Ignatius (Erithmu) intercepts The Chameleon (lonewolf) is on Round 10. I'd like some feedback (not from the parts involved) of what should happen now, since this is the most unusual fight I have ever pitlorded... @Lonewolf: found you! @Dsugui: Chameleon's bow damage should go down with the compression size change(1d4+0 (str penality)). Also (as a general question) since the bow is composite, shouldn't the Chameleon also suffer the penalties for trying to use a composite bow without the requisite str score (-2)? I figure I am allowed to make 'rules' comments, but I'll refrain from tactics comments
hogarth 09-11-06, 03:04 PM	Ignatius (Erithmu) intercepts The Chameleon (lonewolf) is on Round 10. I'd like some feedback (not from the parts involved) of what should happen now, since this is the most unusual fight I have ever pitlorded... As soon as Ignatius is in a position where he has line-of-sight and The Chameleon no longer has cover or concealment, the Chameleon's hiding should fail. Oh wait...The Chameleon has Hide in Plain Sight. So I guess Ignatius just pinpointed him (since he's not 3 sizes larger, he can't move into the Chameleon's square without doing a bull rush/overrun/whatever) without seeing him.
TelinArtho 09-11-06, 03:50 PM	And on the topic of running fights, I fear I won't be able to run my remaining one: School and work have conspired to give me no spare time at all today (I can only get on now for about half an hour, plus for a little time after work tonight), and tomorrow I only have a few hours between classes that I need for homework. If anyone can pick this up, I'll forward the tactics to you tonight. Zevox I should be able to pick it up. Go ahead and send me the tactics when you get the chance.
TheMagister 09-11-06, 07:15 PM	Speaking of which, I should double check my sheet. Don't forget to bring some diamonds. With what money? OH! I thought she had 226 gp. She had 326! Diamond dust acquired. TM
TheMagister 09-11-06, 07:37 PM	@Lonewolf: found you! @Dsugui: Chameleon's bow damage should go down with the compression size change(1d4+0 (str penality)). Also (as a general question) since the bow is composite, shouldn't the Chameleon also suffer the penalties for trying to use a composite bow without the requisite str score (-2)? I figure I am allowed to make 'rules' comments, but I'll refrain from tactics comments HA! I LOVE it! "Gee, this wall is awfully soft and bumpy... C'MERE!" Edit: Good: Intimidating a pack of thugs on the street when they try to steal an old lady's purse and run into YOU instead. Better: Being the Voice of Bahamut on the prime, his representative of martial goodness, and damned good looking in the bargain. Best: Running around in a panic like a crazy man after getting ventilated by an opponent you can't see, flailing your arms like Pinocchio hopped up on caffeine and speed only to accidentally CATCH the bastard hiding around the corner and finding that not only is he weaker than you, he's made himself SMALLER so that it's even EASIER for you to rip his sneaking little arms off his puny body. For the Arena, there's luck. For everything else, there's Mastercard. TM
TheMagister 09-11-06, 07:39 PM	@Telin - Thanks for being Johnny-on-the-spot for the Rubicanti fight. Now if we can just get Iced to finish Hood's... TM
McJarvis 09-11-06, 07:42 PM	Valen Sky (Hirumajoe) vs. Saunginel (DocNessumo) [Arena] is done. Setup can be found Here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10037791&postcount=936) & the fight can be found Here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10037808&postcount=937)
TheMagister 09-11-06, 08:05 PM	Valen Sky (Hirumajoe) vs. Saunginel (DocNessumo) [Arena] is done. Setup can be found Here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10037791&postcount=936) & the fight can be found Here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10037808&postcount=937) One thing, and you and the players may choose to ignore it as not important: Force Screen has an audible display, so it is possible to hear someone manifesting it (unless they say to suppress displays with Concentration). TM
TheMagister 09-11-06, 08:14 PM	Ignatius (Erithmu) intercepts The Chameleon (lonewolf) is on Round 10. I'd like some feedback (not from the parts involved) of what should happen now, since this is the most unusual fight I have ever pitlorded... I almost hate to bring this up, but: Did you remember to apply the difficult terrain modifier to Ignatius' movement while he was flailing his arms and running around like a bamboo infested with half-fiend fleas? TM
Zelck 09-11-06, 10:01 PM	Indrithia and Ihdald vs. Pestilence is done. The Setup (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10055384&postcount=947) and The Fight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10055384&postcount=948). Fortunately, I didn't go insane.
DSugui 09-11-06, 10:26 PM	Chameleon's bow damage should go down with the compression size change(1d4+0 (str penality)). Also (as a general question) since the bow is composite, shouldn't the Chameleon also suffer the penalties for trying to use a composite bow without the requisite str score (-2)?I forgot about that, thanks for pointing it out. I will fix before proceeding with the fight. Did you remember to apply the difficult terrain modifier to Ignatius' movement while he was flailing his arms and running around like a bamboo infested with half-fiend fleas?Yes I did. The parts that have only 5ft of water between parts of solid ground he can easily jump, so that doesn't hamper his movement, but the part he is walking in the water I counted double move. EDIT: But now that you mentioned, I realized I was giving too much movement to Ignatius... I think I will let the dice gods decide this one...
NiQil 09-11-06, 10:36 PM	Indrithia and Ihdald vs. Pestilence is done. The Setup (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10055384&postcount=947) and The Fight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10055384&postcount=948). Fortunately, I didn't go insane. I'm not going to ask you to change it since it didn't affect the result, but if there are edits, then I would ask, rather than making Str checks to break free of the tanglefoot bag, the slashing weapon I am using in my hands already be used to break away the goo.....I'm not sure why you didn't do that the first time, as it is the much more efficient way of getting free. Granted, this is all improv on your part, so it's your call, but I don't think it is unreasonable to use the weapon I am already holding to get out of the goo.
Zelck 09-11-06, 10:39 PM	I'm not going to ask you to change it since it didn't affect the result, but if there are edits, then I would ask, rather than making Str checks to break free of the tanglefoot bag, the slashing weapon I am using in my hands already be used to break away the goo.....I'm not sure why you didn't do that the first time, as it is the much more efficient way of getting free. Granted, this is all improv on your part, so it's your call, but I don't think it is unreasonable to use the weapon I am already holding to get out of the goo. Well, if you broke out with the strength check, I think you can still attack. And I totally forgot about the attacking the bag option :P.
TheMagister 09-11-06, 11:20 PM	@Niqil - when you attack two-handed with the waraxe, don't you take a -1 penalty to hit because of the buckler? Furthermore, if you use the arm the buckler is on to wield a weapon (whether two-handed or TWF) you lose its AC bonus until the beginning of your next turn. So, while Pestilence is climbing, he loses FIVE AC points (-3 from dex and -2 from buckler), making his AC 19. While he's attacking two-handed, his attacks are at a -1 and his AC is down by two. While he's hitting the croc, his AC is down by four (-2 from loss of buckler and -2 from the entangled dex penalty). I won't comb the fight for instances in which this might matter; I'll let Zelck do that. I don't think any of those factors was included in the fight, and there were a lot of close rolls in that one. Edit: (Okay, so I have nothing better to do...) Round 8: Pestilence's AC drops from 24 (-2 two-handed, -2 dex penalty) to 20. Ihdald's arrow hits. Round 9: Wall? Ihdald couldn't move to negate cover? Ihdald hits again. Round 13 (which is the new 12, I hear): Ihdald hits; Pestilence is entangled until Indri's turn, and his AC is 26 (24 - 2 dex penalty + 4 cover from some wall). Round 14: No rolls shown, so I dunno if Ihdald hits or not. But Pest's AC is 19. And that's it. TM
NiQil 09-11-06, 11:31 PM	@Niqil - when you attack two-handed with the waraxe, don't you take a -1 penalty to hit because of the buckler? Furthermore, if you use the arm the buckler is on to wield a weapon (whether two-handed or TWF) you lose its AC bonus until the beginning of your next turn. So, while Pestilence is climbing, he loses FIVE AC points (-3 from dex and -2 from buckler), making his AC 19. While he's attacking two-handed, his attacks are at a -1 and his AC is down by two. While he's hitting the croc, his AC is down by four (-2 from loss of buckler and -2 from the entangled dex penalty). I won't comb the fight for instances in which this might matter; I'll let Zelck do that. I don't think any of those factors was included in the fight, and there were a lot of close rolls in that one. TM I honestly didn't look at the rolls...however my tactics specified that I should always attack one-handed (these are part of the general tactics I list on my sheet that apply to every fight....hence the "These are in addition to the general tactics listed on my sheet." line at the beginning of my tactics).
McJarvis 09-11-06, 11:33 PM	Khabil Barukh (Traevanon) vs. Elegost (Dr.Funk) [Cavern] is up. Here is the setup (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10054100&postcount=945) and the fight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10054107&postcount=946) I realize I didn't catch the divine favor bonus to attack every time, but I am confident that it didn't change the outcome.(looked it over quickly to make sure all missed attacks were by more than one.)
TheMagister 09-11-06, 11:43 PM	Yikes. Can't fight the dice, Trae.
Zevox 09-11-06, 11:47 PM	@ Zelck - I'm fine with the fight. Theres a few problems (such as Indrithia meleeing when she never wanted to), but nothing I expect would change it (and even if there is and I'm missing it, its already late in the week, and I do not want the fight held over - the fact that Indrithia's in an operation next week aside, I hate having fights held over at any time). Like I said, I had no real expectations of winning anyway, all that was just to give it our best shot. At least we managed to run the Dwarf ragged before we fell. Zevox
NiQil 09-11-06, 11:57 PM	@Zevox: Are you sure about that? After I started going through the rolls....there are quite a few errors there. It appears just about all of my attacks where made two-handed when they should not have been...the AC thing that Magister mentioned with me Pestilence losing his dex to AC...the drop to half speed until the goo becomes brittle...there's enough there that you could have a shot at reversing the result. If you are fine with it, I won't press any further, but I wouldn't feel right without mentioning some of the things that could be changed that would be in your favor.
Zevox 09-12-06, 12:12 AM	@Zevox: Are you sure about that? After I started going through the rolls....there are quite a few errors there. It appears just about all of my attacks where made two-handed when they should not have been...the AC thing that Magister mentioned with me Pestilence losing his dex to AC...the drop to half speed until the goo becomes brittle...there's enough there that you could have a shot at reversing the result. If you are fine with it, I won't press any further, but I wouldn't feel right without mentioning some of the things that could be changed that would be in your favor. *sigh* Well, I suppose its possible I simply missed a lot of things. I'm very tired right now - I just had a full day of school and work, plus an hour overtime at work, so I just don't have the time or patience right now to look it over thoroughly (and I'm not likely to get such before Thursday either, given my school schedule). If Zelck wants to examine it, I'd of course be quite happy if some miracle could pull off a win and get Indrithia a higher powerrating for that operation shes going on. If he doesn't have time or doesn't want to, I'm not going to insist he do so, and under no circumstances do I want this held over. In case Zelck decides to redo it, I'll mention that the two tactical problems I noticed was that he never used Indrithia's Acid Flasks after the Alchemist's Fire was used up, and that she started fighting in melee at the end when she never intended to (straight melee with Pestilence is suicide at this level, which is why the tactics were to run him ragged to get shots at him in mid-climb). Zevox
TheMagister 09-12-06, 12:54 AM	...the AC thing that Magister mentioned with me Pestilence losing his dex to AC... That's TheMagister to you, buddy! ... Actually, it's TheMagister (or TM) to everybody. I just... Um. Nevermind. :blush: TM
Zelck 09-12-06, 01:12 AM	In case Zelck decides to redo it, I'll mention that the two tactical problems I noticed was that he never used Indrithia's Acid Flasks after the Alchemist's Fire was used up, and that she started fighting in melee at the end when she never intended to (straight melee with Pestilence is suicide at this level, which is why the tactics were to run him ragged to get shots at him in mid-climb). Zevox The unlisted roll in round 14 was a 16. I did miss the lowered AC from climbing though. The melee was because you really had no better option. The alternative was to move-fire, but you need a move action to reload, so basically he'd hit you every round while you attack once every 2 rounds, not to mention possible AoOs. Even if you tried to climb, you'd take 1d6 subdual damage every time you fell down. Additionally, if you fail a balance check, you'd fall down by the scaffolding square. In round 13, Ihdald's 26 fails to hit because the LOS clips the hedges and Pestilence wasn't climbing when the shot was fired. As for the two handed thing, I totally missed that. Still, it doesn't make a difference. On round 16, Ihdald was dropped to -6 on the crit; one-handed would mean 3 less points of damage, or -3. He also hit Indrithia a total of 3 times, so Indritha would end up with 2 HP and 4 nonlethal damage, and she'd still be unconcious.
NiQil 09-12-06, 01:12 AM	That's TheMagister to you, buddy! ... Actually, it's TheMagister (or TM) to everybody. I just... Um. Nevermind. :blush: TM Really? I figured I would just start calling you Daffodil or Petunia or something similarly disgustingly unmanly....how about Pattycake?
NiQil 09-12-06, 01:15 AM	The unlisted roll in round 14 was a 16. I did miss the lowered AC from climbing though. The melee was because you really had no better option. The alternative was to move-fire, but you need a move action to reload, so basically he'd hit you every round while you attack once every 2 rounds, not to mention possible AoOs. Even if you tried to climb, you'd take 1d6 subdual damage every time you fell down. Additionally, if you fail a balance check, you'd fall down by the scaffolding square. In round 13, Ihdald's 26 fails to hit because the LOS clips the hedges and Pestilence wasn't climbing when the shot was fired. As for the two handed thing, I totally missed that. Still, it doesn't make a difference. On round 16, Ihdald was dropped to -6 on the crit; one-handed would mean 3 less points of damage, or -3. He also hit Indrithia a total of 3 times, so Indritha would end up with 2 HP and 4 nonlethal damage, and she'd still be unconcious. Not to mention that all of the rolls that confirmed crits were rolled with 2d10 + (1.5 Str x 2) instead of 3d10 + (Str x 3)...at least the first two were....so there is some extra damage there that got missed as well. I'm fine with it either way...if you want to run through it and see about any error-fixing, feel free, but if Zevox is willing to let it go, then I definitely am....I agree that it's not worth holding over either way.
Zelck 09-12-06, 01:22 AM	Not to mention that all of the rolls that confirmed crits were rolled with 2d10 + (1.5 Str x 2) instead of 3d10 + (Str x 3)...at least the first two were....so there is some extra damage there that got missed as well. I'm fine with it either way...if you want to run through it and see about any error-fixing, feel free, but if Zevox is willing to let it go, then I definitely am....I agree that it's not worth holding over either way. Yup, I saw that. It didn't matter because you didn't get hit during that time, you didn't bust out of the tanglefoot bag, and the croc died anyway not too long after. By the way, the reason Ihdald never moved to break cover was because I couldn't figure out a way to do it w/o getting really close to Pestilence. See here: http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=city;a=Indr,M,46,53,47, 53;b=Ihda,M,47,52,47,58;c=Cudd,M,45,52;d =Pest,M,44,53,45,53 Pestilence is pink, Ihdald is blue. Anywhere behind a green hedge gives Pestilence cover because the hedges aren't "low obstacles". The only place he could really stand was between Indrithia (red) and the hedge, which is only 5' away from basing Pestilence. The tactics seemed to suggest an unwillingness for Ihdald to melee at the tanglefoot bag phase of the fight, so I had him shoot from around the corner.
TheMagister 09-12-06, 01:32 AM	Cool beans. Looks like both parties are willing to accept it as-run anyhow. Pattycake...hmmm... TM
TheMagister 09-12-06, 01:34 AM	HEY! Iced is on! Yay! (here's hopin')
Iced 09-12-06, 01:48 AM	I've been unable to reach my computer much throughout this week. I'm currently taking a class load that requires almost all my waking hours. I woke up at 5:00 this morning to go to practice until 8:00, started school at 8:30 got out at 12:15 for lunch, went back to practice at 1:00 to 3:00, then went to EMT class from 4:00 to 9:00. I'm exhausted and that's pretty much my schedule for the next few weeks. I've had several fights held over and i'm tired of subjecting my players to that. Since my time is consumed by my RL responsibilities i'm removing myself from the active pitlords list until my life stops being overwhelming and i get a bit of breathing room again. My fights this week are once more going to be late, i'm sorry to all my players who's characters are participating in them. I'm going to try my best to get them out tomorrow sometime between 5:00 and 9:00 around my homework. If anyone has the time my links are here: Sunstroke vs Denshi (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10057048&postcount=951) Mort and Monch vs Hood (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9994697&postcount=913) Loddick vs Bulette on plains (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10057058&postcount=952) good luck, my apologies, ~Iced off to do more homework...
TheMagister 09-12-06, 01:54 AM	Blast. :yuck: That's about what I figured was going on in your life. :pile: Work hard, but don't forget to unwind every now and again! TM
McJarvis 09-12-06, 02:19 AM	Yeh, good luck man. I had to take a year off of CoCo to arrange my final year of college...so I totally understand. TM: This show down beteen hood and mort is turning into an epic in my head.
TheMagister 09-12-06, 02:22 AM	I know the feeling. It's gonna be hella anti-climactic when he blows Mort's head off again.
McJarvis 09-12-06, 02:23 AM	I know the feeling. It's gonna be hella anti-climactic when he blows Mort's head off again. It's ok, I just got done watching Sin City. I'm used to it now. edit- Apparently Mort's self confidence is only in-character.... ;)
TheMagister 09-12-06, 02:30 AM	It's ok, I just got done watching Sin City. I'm used to it now. edit- Apparently Mort's self confidence is only in-character.... ;) Ah, sweet little Miho...
King Uther 09-12-06, 02:57 AM	Kitty vs Kimahri vs Dronnar is up. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10056975&postcount=950) Based on tactics+maneuverability, I would've predicted a different outcome. But a certain contingency combined with high damage rolls proved to turn the tide.
King Uther 09-12-06, 03:07 AM	I posted sheet and tactics for Little Daisy vs War & Faelto. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10057443&postcount=953) I am trying to move into my new house(my first!) and have a lot to take care of. If someone can run it for me great, otherwise I will have to do it tomorrow night, which counts as being late. Sigh. Either way it will get done, just later than I'd like.
The Magister 09-12-06, 05:53 AM	That's TheMagister to you, buddy! ... Actually, it's TheMagister (or TM) to everybody. I just... Um. Nevermind. :blush: TM Not to be confused with THE (space) Magister, who is a prominent NPC in the ongoning plotline of TAO. P.S. Forwarded you some of your mail, TheMagister. Of course it's months old, but hey, can't beat the novelty.
TheMagister 09-12-06, 06:02 AM	And I had NO idea that there was actually a guildmaster account with my name on it! Look everyone! I'm a Guildmaster! And wasn't I around before the Living Guilds came about? You bastards ganked my name! =) TM
Zevox 09-12-06, 07:48 AM	The melee was because you really had no better option. The alternative was to move-fire, but you need a move action to reload, so basically he'd hit you every round while you attack once every 2 rounds, not to mention possible AoOs. This was why I asked to do withdraws and try the climb-drop-run-repeat tactic. We have the same speed, so when withdrawing he couldn't attack unless he used his bow, which deflect arrows would just get, and barring a truely poor balance check I could always get a shot at him when climbing. Not to mention she still has those Acid Flasks she can use instead of the crossbow (which I did ask to use during this phase if they weren't used up in the tanglefoot one), which would be much more accurate than the crossbow (most likely anyway). Even if you tried to climb, you'd take 1d6 subdual damage every time you fell down. No, she would not. Indrithia has slow fall 20ft - she treats all falls as 20ft shorter than they are for damage purposes if shes adjacent to a wall when they happen. Since these are only 20ft to begin with, she takes no damage from the falls. I mentioned this as a note in the tactics. He also hit Indrithia a total of 3 times, so Indritha would end up with 2 HP and 4 nonlethal damage, and she'd still be unconcious. Since she shouldn't have that nonlethal damage (as I pointed out above), she wouldn't be. As I said though, I'm still not asking for an edit if you don't wish to do one. I don't expect any of this will change it. @ Telin - Tactics for Rubicanti & Carandol forwarded, thanks for picking it up. Zevox
Zelck 09-12-06, 09:09 AM	This was why I asked to do withdraws and try the climb-drop-run-repeat tactic. We have the same speed, so when withdrawing he couldn't attack unless he used his bow, which deflect arrows would just get, and barring a truely poor balance check I could always get a shot at him when climbing. Not to mention she still has those Acid Flasks she can use instead of the crossbow (which I did ask to use during this phase if they weren't used up in the tanglefoot one), which would be much more accurate than the crossbow (most likely anyway). No, she would not. Indrithia has slow fall 20ft - she treats all falls as 20ft shorter than they are for damage purposes if shes adjacent to a wall when they happen. Since these are only 20ft to begin with, she takes no damage from the falls. I mentioned this as a note in the tactics. Since she shouldn't have that nonlethal damage (as I pointed out above), she wouldn't be. As I said though, I'm still not asking for an edit if you don't wish to do one. I don't expect any of this will change it. I totally missed the slow fall. Hmm... Well, I'll run an edit if you like. It'll be totally your choice. I should be able to get it in before tomorrow.
Zevox 09-12-06, 09:14 AM	I totally missed the slow fall. Hmm... Well, I'll run an edit if you like. It'll be totally your choice. I should be able to get it in before tomorrow. Nah, don't bother. Like I said, I don't expect it would change anything. As near as can tell, the moment Indrithia stops to try and disarm Pestilence of his wands (the only way she'll win in the long run), he'll cut her up. All it could do is cost her more crossbow bolts and those acid flasks. Zevox
SauroGrenom 09-12-06, 09:40 AM	I just want Hogarth and Erithmu to know that I'm almost done with their fight. I've got the first several rounds done, and the tactics are clean and easy to use. This will go smoothly. I've got to run to work now, but I'll try and work on it durring my breaks and if necessary finish it up tonight after work. Just wanted to let you guys know what's going on.
hogarth 09-12-06, 09:46 AM	I just want Hogarth and Erithmu to know that I'm almost done with their fight. I've got the first several rounds done, and the tactics are clean and easy to use. This will go smoothly. I've got to run to work now, but I'll try and work on it durring my breaks and if necessary finish it up tonight after work. Just wanted to let you guys know what's going on. Thanks for the update, SG. Hopefully the battle will go very smoothly...in Treetall's favour, of course! :D
lonewolf 09-12-06, 12:34 PM	@DSgui: Didi you recieve the Bulgary information? The stone of Force screen should not be available to Ignatius. Also on rules: If he tries to run through the squares I am in, it counts as Overrun. And beeing the defender of an overrun I can always choose to avoid the character doing the overrun. => He cannot find me this way. What he actually wants to do if I read his tactics correctly, is a grapple attempt on every single square that he runs through, which is of course impossible in a single round. Other than that, there is no rule that can support his tactics.
hogarth 09-12-06, 12:40 PM	@DSgui: Didi you recieve the Bulgary information? The stone of Force screen should not be available to Ignatius. Also on rules: If he tries to run through the squares I am in, it counts as Overrun. And beeing the defender of an overrun I can always choose to avoid the character doing the overrun. => He cannot find me this way. It is not an Overrun, since an overrun explicitly requires a standard action. He's just moving a lot and, as a result, "accidentally" trying to move into your space.
TelinArtho 09-12-06, 01:21 PM	@McJarvis - Re: Elegost vs Khabil You forgot to include the PBS bonuses for Elegost when within 30ft. Obviously the only difference is that Khabil is down sooner - but I figured I'd remind you of that.
McJarvis 09-12-06, 01:23 PM	@McJarvis - Re: Elegost vs Khabil You forgot to include the PBS bonuses for Elegost when within 30ft. Obviously the only difference is that Khabil is down sooner - but I figured I'd remind you of that. I included them. Not all shots he made were within 30 ft. edit- unless you meant the damage bonuses. I might have forgotten those...
TelinArtho 09-12-06, 01:27 PM	Yeah - damage is where I saw the difference. @Zevox - I have received tactics - I'll be running it when I get the chance.
lonewolf 09-12-06, 02:01 PM	It is not an Overrun, since an overrun explicitly requires a standard action. He's just moving a lot and, as a result, "accidentally" trying to move into your space. And this tactic is not covered by the rules at all. But if a character can choose to avoid an overrunning character, I see no reason why he shouldnt be able to avoid a character using this tactic.
Erithmu 09-12-06, 02:05 PM	The only reason that I used this tactic is that there have been 2 or 3 fights that have used it as a tactic. The pitlords in each situation had no problem with it at the time. I can dig them up later, but I have to finish my last paper of Summer quarter (due tomorrow)
McJarvis 09-12-06, 02:08 PM	The only reason that I used this tactic is that there have been 2 or 3 fights that have used it as a tactic. The pitlords in each situation had no problem with it at the time. I can dig them up later, but I have to finish my last paper of Summer quarter (due tomorrow) I remember running a fight over a year ago where I as a Pittlord tried to improvise this tactic to no avail.(had to re-run the fight due to being overruled) The only way to detect an invisible character by blindly flailing is to pick a square to attack, and then you have a 50% miss chance. They can simply opt to avoid you if you run through their square.
TelinArtho 09-12-06, 02:18 PM	Rubicanti (TheMagister) vs Carandol Mornenion (Etiquette_Gnome) is up. Quick and simple - but extremely close fight...
TheMagister 09-12-06, 02:44 PM	Yeesh. Why couldn't The White Hand ever sneak attack like that, hmm? Sigh. Thanks for the run, Telin! TM
DSugui 09-12-06, 02:58 PM	Ignatius (Erithmu) intercepts The Chameleon (lonewolf) is up HERE @lonewolf: I accepted those tactics because I've seen pitlords ruling that way before. And I forgot about the burglary, sorry (but that didn't affect the fight anyways...)
Erithmu 09-12-06, 03:42 PM	Ignatius (Erithmu) intercepts The Chameleon (lonewolf) is up HERE @lonewolf: I accepted those tactics because I've seen pitlords ruling that way before. And I forgot about the burglary, sorry (but that didn't affect the fight anyways...) Fine with the fight ... although with the burglary it means I can't use the stone so it shouldn't get used in the fight.
DSugui 09-12-06, 03:46 PM	Fine with the fight ... although with the burglary it means I can't use the stone so it shouldn't get used in the fight.I'll edit that later at night
lonewolf 09-12-06, 03:59 PM	ignore this
Traevanon 09-12-06, 09:49 PM	I havent been able to get online much the last couple days so I'm a bit late to reply to my own fight, but better late than never. Nice hits! I think I could have had twice the HPs and still not got all my sunders off. BTW Most pitlords do sunders against bows just like you did McJarvis (I think), they treat the bow as a melee weapon and roll an opposing attack roll rather than treating it like an object that only requires a roll to hit. Its still a little gronky to do it that way, but then again most "Special Attacks" are a bit gronky.
McJarvis 09-12-06, 10:30 PM	BTW Most pitlords do sunders against bows just like you did McJarvis (I think), they treat the bow as a melee weapon and roll an opposing attack roll rather than treating it like an object that only requires a roll to hit. Its still a little gronky to do it that way, but then again most "Special Attacks" are a bit gronky. heh...The reason I did it that way is b/c the sundering rules just say "weapon" and not "melee weapon". If it were my home game I would have treated it as an object. You're right- the rules do seem gronky :(
TheMagister 09-13-06, 12:29 AM	Funny, I remember it being addressed specifically in the sunder rules... If it's not a melee weapon, the defender takes a -4 penalty to the roll. TM
TheMagister 09-13-06, 12:32 AM	Shameless plug: Has anyone stepped up to re-run Hood vs. Monsch and Mort for Iced? He's not going to get to it. TM
McJarvis 09-13-06, 12:38 AM	Funny, I remember it being addressed specifically in the sunder rules... If it's not a melee weapon, the defender takes a -4 penalty to the roll. TM That's in the disarm section of special combat, but I don't see it at all in the sunder rules themselves. It just addresses what happens if the item being sundered is a weapon & what happens if it isn't -- no special mention of ranged weapons
King Uther 09-13-06, 01:09 AM	Little Daisy vs Faelto and War is up. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10066759&postcount=955) I had to go back and edit for tactical errors, stop in the middle for a movie break, and watch as the fight changed leads the whole time. Hopefully everyone is satisfied, even though one error that benefited the victor was not edited in.
SauroGrenom 09-13-06, 01:25 AM	TreeTall vs Shadowsong in the forest map
DSugui 09-13-06, 01:30 AM	Little Daisy vs Faelto and War is up. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10066759&postcount=955) I had to go back and edit for tactical errors, stop in the middle for a movie break, and watch as the fight changed leads the whole time. Hopefully everyone is satisfied, even though one error that benefited the victor was not edited in.Actually, there are lots of issues from my part - but, unless Telin and NiQil have complaints of their own, there is little need to edit the fight. First, my tactics said very clearly that Artemis should not participate of the fight. She has very low AC, and without being able to stay out of range from War attacks, it was obcious she would die. I wanted to be mounted on Athena, with her buffed AC of 27 it would be very hard to War to hit her. Second, Daisy has a ring of feather falling, so even if she was mounted on Artemis and the eagle got killed, she wouldn't take damage from the fall. Third, Athena should get a trip attempt for every bite she hits, but I didn't see any of those. The only thing I ask you to edit (if nothing else comes up) is that ride check to negate one hit on Artemis, since that could actually save her from death - it could be important to have her in my next fight. If Telin and/or NiQil have more issues that could affect the fight, then I kindly ask for the fight to be rerun (or hold over if there is no time for that)
King Uther 09-13-06, 01:38 AM	I rolled the trips when I realized, and none succeeded. Artemis was the target, and there was no way to dodge all of those attacks, even with the high ride check(I did the rolls just for the sake of doing so). The ring of feather falling I missed, but once you became the rhino you took enough damage to kill anyone instantly when combined with produce flame. Nice rolling.
NiQil 09-13-06, 01:51 AM	There is one other rather large error...in the round that Daisy casts Flame Strike, War is in base contact with her. War has a Silence spell on him, meaning that Flame Strike cannot be cast. That means the spell is wasted, and all of that damage goes away. That means War is still up, and the hippogriff is still kicking as well. Faelto would have had to drop the Silence later that round to heal War, but with that damage not being there, that healing would be unnecessary. That is probably going to require an edit from that point on. Edit: As DSugui stated above, I think this fight is going to require an edit. If it can be done before deadline, great...if not, I think it is probably going to have to be held over in order to get the edit completed. I don't think a complete rerun is necessary, but edits are definitely in order.
TelinArtho 09-13-06, 02:23 AM	I don't have anything further to add - but I certainly would prefer for the edits to include a) that Artemis shouldn't have been there in the first place b) that flame strike wouldn't have occured since Daisy was in base contact. I'm fine with the fight being held over for these edits to be added in.
Stormwind 09-13-06, 03:35 AM	Shameless plug: Has anyone stepped up to re-run Hood vs. Monsch and Mort for Iced? He's not going to get to it. TM I'll take it and try to get it done over the next few hours.
McJarvis 09-13-06, 03:36 AM	I'll take it and try to get it done over the next few hours. Wow thanks! I thought mort would be pulled into a third week for sure.
Erithmu 09-13-06, 05:56 AM	TreeTall vs Shadowsong in the forest map Thx for the run ...
hogarth 09-13-06, 07:11 AM	Thx for the run ... @SauroGrenom: Thanks for the pitlording; if Erithmu is fine with the fight, it's fine with me too.
TheMagister 09-13-06, 12:11 PM	Ouch! Ouch! Make the high rolls stop! He should miss me 75% of the time on AC alone! Ouch! @Stormwind - I'm not seeing any spot rolls for Bob in there, and are you remembering the Synesthete bonus to spot? TM
Stormwind 09-13-06, 01:29 PM	The following fight is up: Mort Noir (McJarvis) & Monch (UserName) vs. Monsieur Hood (TheMagister) : Iced [City] [Inter-League] [Week 2] The fight is up here. It was a tense and tight fought battle and for a while it seemed as if Mort was going to successfully assassinate a powerful member of WAR. However Morts amazing luck eventually ran out and Monsiuer Hood staggered away with several arrows sticking out of him ... victorious ... Let me know if there are any issues with the fight.
hogarth 09-13-06, 01:40 PM	Even if Bob the psicrystal helps his boss pinpoint where Mort is, shouldn't Mort still have total concealment until Hood makes a Spot check?
DSugui 09-13-06, 01:46 PM	@Telin, NiQil: Did someone PMed Cat to hold over the fight? If the fight will be hold over, then I ask for a rerun, since important parts of my tactics were not taken in account since the beginning. Personally, I wouldn't mind if the fight stands as it is (since I won, of course :D) EDIT: Looking back at the fight, the Flame Strike in Silence wouldn't be a issue. Daisy could move back 20ft, exiting the Silence area (and taking a AoO from War, but nothing less than a crit would bring her down, since she would recover 8hp when using wild shape that was not added in the fight) and cast the spell. So I think the fight could stay as it is. Please respond quickly so I have time to edit her sheet.
Stormwind 09-13-06, 01:46 PM	Even if Bob the psicrystal helps his boss pinpoint where Mort is, shouldn't Mort still have total concealment until Hood makes a Spot check? My understanding is that since Bob can communicate telepathically with his master he can tell Hood where Mort is. This then negates the fact that Mort is hiding. Mort then only has the concealment (20%) of the darkness. He doesn't get total concealment.
MindWandererB 09-13-06, 01:47 PM	You were a bit hard on Monch. He still could have used Entropic Shield (since he did prepare Magic Weapon, a War spell, at first level), and it looks like that "heavy" warhorse is just a light warhorse mis-labeled. On the other hand, if he's missing 3FC info, you were being generous in letting him fight at all. Also you seem to have forgotten that psicrystals have no sensory perception beyond 40 feet. That includes hearing. These aren't fight-altering, though.
hogarth 09-13-06, 01:50 PM	Also you seem to have forgotten that psicrystals have no sensory perception beyond 40 feet. That includes hearing. Check again. All it says is "A psicrystal's sighted range is 40 feet." That has no bearing on its ability to "sense its environment as well as a creature with normal [..] hearing". Stormwind, there was a discussion in the Tavern Ask an Elder thread about whether a psicrystal can help its master spot an opponent. I thought the consensus The ruling was that it could help its master pinpoint (i.e. narrow it down to a 5' square) but not negate hiding altogether. Of course, that's not an official ruling.
MindWandererB 09-13-06, 02:01 PM	Yeah... but read that poorly-named "sighted" ability.Sighted (Ex): Although it has no physical sensory organs, a psicrystal can telepathically sense its environment as well as a creature with normal vision and hearing. Darkness (even supernatural darkness) is irrelevant, as are areas of supernatural silence, though a psicrystal still can’t discern invisible or ethereal beings. A psicrystal’s sighted range is 40 feet.The "sighted" ability allows it to telepathically sense things within 40 feet as if it had normal hearing and vision. Since it has no actual sensory organs, it has no ability to sense things beyond its telepathic sensory range. It's idiotic that the ability named "sighted" actually applies to both vision and hearing, but that's the way it's written.
Stormwind 09-13-06, 02:04 PM	Also you seem to have forgotten that psicrystals have no sensory perception beyond 40 feet. That includes hearing. These aren't fight-altering, though. Ah ... you're right. I recalled the correct details regarding the psicrystal with sight, but forgot them with hearing ... doh. @hogarth: here's the relevant quote: ... Sighted (Ex): Although it has no physical sensory organs, a psicrystal can telepathically sense its environment as well as a creature with normal vision and hearing. Darkness (even supernatural darkness) is irrelevant, as are areas of supernatural silence, though a psicrystal still can’t discern invisible or ethereal beings. A psicrystal’s sighted range is 40 feet. The implication is that it can hear, but the range is limited to 40ft. Regarding psicyrstals and pinpointing ... I have seen it ruled this way (negates hiding) in several fights and this is my ruling too. Unless an Elder ruling is made contrary to my understanding of the matter, then I will continue to rule it this way.
hogarth 09-13-06, 02:13 PM	Yeah... but read that poorly-named "sighted" ability.The "sighted" ability allows it to telepathically sense things within 40 feet as if it had normal hearing and vision. Since it has no actual sensory organs, it has no ability to sense things beyond its telepathic sensory range. It's idiotic that the ability named "sighted" actually applies to both vision and hearing, but that's the way it's written. Ah.. I see; you're interpreting "sighted range" as meaning "range of the Sighted (Ex) ability" not "range of the psicrystal's sight". You're right, it is ambiguous.
McJarvis 09-13-06, 02:18 PM	Regarding psicyrstals and pinpointing ... I have seen it ruled this way (negates hiding) in several fights and this is my ruling too. Unless an Elder ruling is made contrary to my understanding of the matter, then I will continue to rule it this way. Once again, thanks for running the fight. I have some minor objections with the rules implemented, but some major issues with my tactics not being followed.(if they had been followed, hood would never have seen mort in the first place) In round 14~15 mort should not have continued to advance on hood & just fired from where he was.(Hood stepped into darkness) Hood, by his tactics, would have stood taking active spot checks to try and find Mort while mort sniped at him. The spot DC to see mort while he was sniping would have been a DC 23 + d20. (Hide +35 -20 sniping +8 distance + d20) With a +6 to his spot, Hood can not see mort unless more rolls a 3 or less on his hide. I'm confident the outcome will change... Note that my tactics specifically said that if I'm ever spotted I am to "RUN AND HIDE". Not try and get psionically focused. Also I said to keep my distance, yet Mort kept walking closer to Hood. I'm not sure why I had to re-get my spot checks when I already had LOS on him.(Darkness doesn't change that- and Hood himself wasn't hiding) I should never have gotten within 40 ft of Hood if he didn't spot me, due to my keeping distance...thus the psi-crystal thing should never even be an issue. I'd like an edit to the end of the fight. Mort should get 20% conceilment even if the psi-crystal does spot him & he should run to re-gain cover/hide after Hood fires mort is fired at. Also, he should never even get within 40 ft of Hood in the first place because my tactics said to only close to within 30 ft if I was trying to sneak attack, which I'm not. My tactics say that if I'm not sneak attacking I am to keep my distance(which is as far away as I can get while still in the darkness) The fight should have played out with Mort at that initial large distance of greater than 40 ft sniping at Hood: Hood could only react if he actually spotted Mort(as specified in Hood's tactics: use all actions for spot checks) I really think I would have won this fight if my tactics were followed... :-) edit- ok, i'm done editing this now...
Zelck 09-13-06, 03:29 PM	There has been an elder ruling on the issue of psicrystals. It was ruled that it only helps you pinpoint, and doesn't allow you to negate the concealment or target the hider. See it here: http://community.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=569305&page=21
Stormwind 09-13-06, 03:43 PM	@McJarvis: Believe it or not, I was trying to follow your tactics as closely as possible. Obviously my interpretation differed from your own. I will try and clarify my reasoning and explain why I made the decisions I did. In round 14-15 and round 16-17, Mort moved closer because he couldn't spot Hood and because he was trying to get closer so as to be able to sneak attack as per your tactics (he didn't realise that wouldn't work due to the psicrystal). Although your tactics do say that if you are spotted you should run and hide, you automatically rehide when you move since you have concealment in the darkness. (I have just not rolled it since you autosucceed.) Furthermore, at that stage Mort had no reason to believe that he could not hide in the darkness. Everyone hides when they have the chance ... including Hood. My ruling earlier in the fight (which benefited you enormously), was that darkness provides concealment which can be used to hide. Thus you did not have LoS. Thus to conclude, an edit would mean that I would have to change my rulings (rulings which were also of great benefit to you). Since your tactics did not specify when not to do certain things (such as try to sneak attack), unless you can show irrevocably that my interpretation of your tactics is wrong, then I do not see a reason to do an edit.
McJarvis 09-13-06, 04:04 PM	@McJarvis: Believe it or not, I was trying to follow your tactics as closely as possible. Obviously my interpretation differed from your own. I will try and clarify my reasoning and explain why I made the decisions I did. In round 14-15 and round 16-17, Mort moved closer because he couldn't spot Hood and because he was trying to get closer so as to be able to sneak attack as per your tactics (he didn't realise that wouldn't work due to the psicrystal). Although your tactics do say that if you are spotted you should run and hide, you automatically rehide when you move since you have concealment in the darkness. (I have just not rolled it since you autosucceed.) Furthermore, at that stage Mort had no reason to believe that he could not hide in the darkness. Everyone hides when they have the chance ... including Hood. My ruling earlier in the fight (which benefited you enormously), was that darkness provides concealment which can be used to hide. Thus you did not have LoS. Thus to conclude, an edit would mean that I would have to change my rulings (rulings which were also of great benefit to you). Since your tactics did not specify when not to do certain things (such as try to sneak attack), unless you can show irrevocably that my interpretation of your tactics is wrong, then I do not see a reason to do an edit. You can not hide unless you get cover first- if I have LOS on hood the conceilment will not help him hide. Likewise, if he has LOS on me then I can not hide in the darkness. The reason Mort can start off hiding is that no one has LOS on him(ie- no one is casually observing him) when he *starts* hiding...after that, conceilment is enough. Hood never gets a chance to hide because Mort sees him before Hood even enters the darkness. If people are observing you, even casually, you can’t hide. Note that is possible to observe someone when they only have partial conceilment or partial cover....thus the normal auto-hide doesn't apply. You need total conceilment or total cover to *start* hiding.(or you just need to be completely out of sight of anyone) The CoCo rule of gladiators always hide if they can does not apply here simply because Hood was never in a position to legally start hiding. As far as the exactness of my tactics: Only expend my psionic focus for psionic shot if hood is NOT engaged in melee. Move around so I can sneak attack(30ft) if he isn't in darkness, if he IS in darkness then keep my distance. My tactics were clear as to when I would sneak attack and when I would keep my distance.(You probably just missed them because they were at the very end of my tactics writeup) As soon as Hood stepped into the darkness to gain the advantage of conceilment(20% miss chance, suppress my sneak attack damage), he triggered my tactics of "keeping my distance" while sniping.
Stormwind 09-13-06, 05:09 PM	You can not hide unless you get cover first- if I have LOS on hood the conceilment will not help him hide. Likewise, if he has LOS on me then I can not hide in the darkness. The reason Mort can start off hiding is that no one has LOS on him(ie- no one is casually observing him) when he *starts* hiding...after that, conceilment is enough. Hood never gets a chance to hide because Mort sees him before Hood even enters the darkness. Note that is possible to observe someone when they only have partial conceilment or partial cover....thus the normal auto-hide doesn't apply. You need total conceilment or total cover to *start* hiding.(or you just need to be completely out of sight of anyone) The CoCo rule of gladiators always hide if they can does not apply here simply because Hood was never in a position to legally start hiding. As far as the exactness of my tactics: My tactics were clear as to when I would sneak attack and when I would keep my distance.(You probably just missed them because they were at the very end of my tactics writeup) As soon as Hood stepped into the darkness to gain the advantage of conceilment(20% miss chance, suppress my sneak attack damage), he triggered my tactics of "keeping my distance" while sniping. As far as I am aware you can hide if you have cover or concealment. Total cover/concealment is not required. If you can show me a quote that shows that this is not the case for concealment (or cover), then please let me know. Regarding your tactics. My apologies, you were sufficiently precise with the sneak attack. My mistake.
MindWandererB 09-13-06, 05:22 PM	Stormwind: You cannot start hiding while being watched without a bluff check. You can hide with only partial cover/concealment, but not if your opponent already sees you.
McJarvis 09-13-06, 05:34 PM	If you can show me a quote that shows that this is not the case for concealment (or cover), then please let me know. Sure: *snip* You need cover or concealment in order to attempt a Hide check. *snip* If people are observing you, even casually, you can’t hide. So you need cover or conceilment in order to hide, but if you're being observed you can't hide. Partial cover or partial conceilment doesn't stop people from observing you if they've already spotted you- so you don't get to hide. Regarding your tactics. My apologies, you were sufficiently precise with the sneak attack. My mistake. No problem...I've missed tactics on gladiators plenty of times. I understand that you can't be expected to memorize the tactics of both gladiators completely :-) I really think the outcome has a good chance of changing when my tactics are implemented along with Hood not being able to hide himself...
TheMagister 09-13-06, 11:21 PM	Re: the "RUN/HIDE" part of Mort's tactics Mort is restricted from running due to the difficult terrain caused by the darkness. Further, his speed is reduced to 10 ft. Mort can move a whole 20 ft. in a round, which is (probably) not enough to get him to the total cover that would make it possible for him to hide again. I'm sorry I didn't point this out earlier, but I didn't think it'd be necessary... edit: this basically means that the initial snipe attack fired by Mort leaves him exposed for a return shot in the same round...and only means that he eats a rapid shot a round earlier. It also means that Mort wouldn't run away, because Hood would have no reason to enter the darkness after he spots Mort and sinks an arrow into him. Somebody stop me if I'm wrong... TM
McJarvis 09-13-06, 11:28 PM	Re: the "RUN/HIDE" part of Mort's tactics Mort is restricted from running due to the difficult terrain caused by the darkness. Further, his speed is reduced to 10 ft. Mort can move a whole 20 ft. in a round, which is (probably) not enough to get him to the total cover that would make it possible for him to hide again. I'm sorry I didn't point this out earlier, but I didn't think it'd be necessary... edit: this basically means that the initial snipe attack fired by Mort leaves him exposed for a return shot in the same round...and only means that he eats a rapid shot a round earlier. It also means that Mort wouldn't run away, because Hood would have no reason to enter the darkness after he spots Mort and sinks an arrow into him. Somebody stop me if I'm wrong... TM The darkness isn't following me.(it's immobile on the ground) I was assuming Mort is sniping from the edge of the darkness(other side from you) and could easily run out of it & around an alley way to hide...perhaps then back into the darkness again? If I'm running I could do it.((maybe?)) Regardless, I'm currently cooking up a Mort 2.0 that addresses his deadly problems with speed. :) Regardless, I was thinking about it. The darkness has a 60 ft radius. That means if you're just inside it(as you were), it would take a DC 26+d20 spot check to see me.(35-20(sniping)+11(max distance of my bow)+d20). With a +6 spot check, you _can't_ see me. The match will end when Mort is out of arrows or Hood dead.
TheMagister 09-14-06, 12:28 AM	But you can't (run away and rehide). Mort is easily 30' inside the darkness radius, approaching Hood who is 10' outside of the other edge. Also, even though it's mentioned in the end-of-round summary, Hood's spot mod with synesthete going is +10 instead of +6 (I know it won't negate the darkness, but it WILL improve the spot check). Further, Mort's half speed while in darkness is 5' (20' / 2 (darkness) / 2 (half-speed) = 5'. The thing is, deeper darkness doesn't block LOS. Once Mort fires from inside it, he's auto-spotted because he has nothing to rehide behind. So Mort fires, hits Hood. Hood was delaying, so Hood fires back, putting Mort at like, 3 or something (darned low rolls). Mort moves toward the alleyway to the north (THERE's somewhere to hide)! Round 10 Bob delays. Mort Noir continues to move out slowly. Mssr Hood moves out towards the darkness(Spot impossible) Mssr Hood 34/34 hp, AC 21, 4/6pp: Psionically focused, Synesthete (+4 Spot, 10 minutes), Skate (3 rounds), Defensive Precognition (+1 AC & saves, 4 rounds), Offensive Precognition (+1 attack, 5 rounds), Offensive Prescience (+2 attack, 6 rounds) |-> Bob 17/17 hp, AC 19, Hardness 8, Speed 45, climb 20: Skate (1 rounds) Mort Noir 23/23 hp, AC 16, 1/1pp, Speed 20: Psionically focused, Pass without trace, Deeper darkness(long), Chameleon (+10 hide, 10 minutes) Monch dead/20 hp, AC 15, 6/6sl, Speed 30: Eagle's splendour (+4 Cha, 3 minutes) http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=city;a=Hood,M,46,44,40, 40;b=Mort,M,13,40,15,40,17,40;o=Darkness ,18,40,12 Round 11 Bob delays. Mort Noir sees Hood and throws his holy symbol towards the center of the city square. He then moves forward. Mssr Hood delays(Spot impossible) Mssr Hood 34/34 hp, AC 21, 4/6pp: Psionically focused, Synesthete (+4 Spot, 10 minutes), Skate (2 rounds), Defensive Precognition (+1 AC & saves, 3 rounds), Offensive Precognition (+1 attack, 4 rounds), Offensive Prescience (+2 attack, 5 rounds) |-> Bob 17/17 hp, AC 19, Hardness 8, Speed 45, climb 20: Skate (0 rounds) Mort Noir 23/23 hp, AC 16, 1/1pp, Speed 20: Psionically focused, Pass without trace, Deeper darkness(long), Chameleon (+10 hide, 9 minutes) Monch dead/20 hp, AC 15, 6/6sl, Speed 30: Eagle's splendour (+4 Cha, 3 minutes) http://www.hwx.it/coco/coco.php;v=1;map=city;a=Hood,M,40,40;b=M ort,M,17,40,19,40;o=Darkness,27,37,12 Round 12 Bob delays. Mort Noir manifests offensive prescience, successfully suppressing the display.He then moves forward again. Mssr Hood delays(Spot impossible) Mssr Hood 34/34 hp, AC 21, 4/6pp: Psionically focused, Synesthete (+4 Spot, 10 minutes), Skate (1 rounds), Defensive Precognition (+1 AC & saves, 2 rounds), Offensive Precognition (+1 attack, 3 rounds), Offensive Prescience (+2 attack, 4 rounds) |-> Bob 17/17 hp, AC 19, Hardness 8, Speed 45, climb 20 Mort Noir 23/23 hp, AC 16, 1/1pp, Speed 20: Psionically focused, Pass without trace, Deeper darkness(long), Chameleon (+10 hide, 9 minutes), Offensive Prescience (+2 attack, 10 rounds) Monch dead/20 hp, AC 15, 6/6sl, Speed 30: Eagle's splendour (+4 Cha, 3 minutes) Round 13 Bob delays. Mort Noir snipes at Mssr Hood from within the darkness. (attack 23, damage 12) (Rehide 35) Mssr Hood tries to spot his opponent in the darkness. Bob also tries to spot his opponent(Spot impossible) There is nowhere within 30ft of Hood where Mort can stay within the darkness, and have 'hard' cover in addition to the darkness. Thus Mort will try to get the most out of his Prescience and shoot from within bow range as he advances to sneak attack range within the darkness. Since darkness provides concealment and is not an effect that affects only a single character, it is valid to use it to hide (or rehide). Furthermore, since synesthete does not negate concealment, it does not negate the concealment provided by the magical darkness. Mssr Hood 22/34 hp, AC 21, 4/6pp: Psionically focused, Synesthete (+4 Spot, 10 minutes), Skate (0 rounds), Defensive Precognition (+1 AC & saves, 1 rounds), Offensive Precognition (+1 attack, 2 rounds), Offensive Prescience (+2 attack, 3 rounds) |-> Bob 17/17 hp, AC 19, Hardness 8, Speed 45, climb 20 Mort Noir 23/23 hp, AC 16, 1/1pp, Speed 20: Pass without trace, Deeper darkness(long), Chameleon (+10 hide, 9 minutes), Offensive Prescience (+2 attack, 9 rounds) Monch dead/20 hp, AC 15, 6/6sl, Speed 30: Eagle's splendour (+4 Cha, 3 minutes) Round 14 Mort regains his focus. Mssr Hood waits, suddenly he realises that he is a dolt for not taking advantage of his opponents darkness. He steps forward into the darkness. Bob waits. (85ft between them) Mssr Hood 22/34 hp, AC 21, 4/6pp: Psionically focused, Synesthete (+4 Spot, 9 minutes), Defensive Precognition (+1 AC & saves, 0 rounds), Offensive Precognition (+1 attack, 1 rounds), Offensive Prescience (+2 attack, 2 rounds) |-> Bob 17/17 hp, AC 19, Hardness 8, Speed 45, climb 20 Mort Noir 23/23 hp, AC 16, 1/1pp, Speed 20: Psionically focused, Pass without trace, Deeper darkness(long), Chameleon (+10 hide, 9 minutes), Offensive Prescience (+2 attack, 8 rounds) Monch dead/20 hp, AC 15, 6/6sl, Speed 30: Eagle's splendour (+4 Cha, 3 minutes) So on round 12, Mort could shoot and then move north to the cover to hide, but he can't because he's so slow. Hood then lights him up, leaving Mort at 10. Then, while Mort regains focus while hiding (round 13), Hood will step into the darkness, following Stormwind's perfectly reasonable improvisation. Round 14, Mort natural 20 snipes Hood again. Hood then breaks LOS by moving to the opposite side of the building and manifests Vigor (note that he doesn't have to hug the wall, just move north far enough to break LOS). Round 15, Mort looks for Hood and doesn't find him. Mort DOESN'T know where Hood went. Is he in the darkness? Is he close? Did he run? Stormwind needs to decide what to do at this point, because there's nothing in Mort's tactics about waiting or chasing. Hood sits and tries to spot. Round 16-18: Mort eventually moves and spots Hood and shoots at him, missing because of concealment. But, now he's auto-spotted, and Hood lights him up, killing him. Isn't that how it would go in a perfect, tactics-following world?
McJarvis 09-14-06, 12:36 AM	Actually, this is what I had in mind: Round 14: Hood steps into darkness. Triggers Mort's "stay away tactics" Round 15+: Mort moves so that he is 110 feet away from Hood.(far away but still in darkness- he moves at a speed of 5 ft per round...but he'll get there) From this range, the spot DC to see Mort is a DC 46 (35(regular)+11(distance)) And the following happens. Using the sniping rules: Sniping: If you’ve already successfully hidden at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack, then immediately hide again. You take a –20 penalty on your Hide check to conceal yourself after the shot. Mort snipes. I don't need cover to snipe, just conceilment. He takes a -20 to his hide check for the remainer of his hide checks, but he has a +26 to this hide check even after the penalty. Thus Hood never auto-spots Mort. Mort continues to take full-round actions to regain psionic focus and snipe until Hood is dead or spots Mort. If spotted, I'll admit mort will probably die. I think the problem here is you're confusing taking a standard action to attack, then moving for cover with sniping. They are different. Sniping is a full round-1 attack action that allows mort to instantaniously rehide so long as he's in conceilment. No need to run for cover...but you have to be using a ranged weapon & you have to be more than 10 feet away... I don't see anything in hood's tactics about him trying to break LOS when manifesting vigor...all I see is you saying "get psionically focused & then spend all actions towards spotting". Then there's a contingency that if you're low on hp to go ahead and manifest vigor, but nothing beyond that. Mort will snipe from a distance of ~110 ft.(ie- "keeping my distance") It'll take a spot check of 26+d20 to see Mort during the rounds that he's actually sniping, 46+d20 when he's just re-gaining his focus. Because he is sniping and not just standard-attack-re-hiding, LOS is never established unless you make those spot checks. With a +10 spot check, you need to roll a 17 minimum when I'm sniping, and that's only if I rolled a one on my hide check that round. If I roll a 5 or better you can't spot me. There's still a fair chance that you'll spot(aka kill) me, but I think the advantage for this fight is mine still. Edit- I realize the rules are fairly loosely written on sniping, so I took the liberty of getting a little something from the FAQ relating to hide-in-plain sight and how sniping relates to it: A character with the hide in plain sight class feature (described on page 48 in the Player’s Handbook) can make a Hide check even if she’s being observed. This doesn’t require any extra action to accomplish (unlike the sniping maneuver). Note that the Hide-in-plain sight ability is treated exactly like sniping, except you can do it as a part of a move action & whenever you want, not just as a special attack.
TheMagister 09-14-06, 09:37 AM	I understand that you're wanting to snipe. I don't think that you're understanding that sniping still follows the hide rules (not the other way around: hide following the sniping rules). If you snipe while exposed (i.e.- there's no hard cover LOS-breaking cover or concealment for you within 1' per rank in the hide skill) then you're AUTOSPOTTED because Hood has LOS to you (darkness being unable to block LOS and all). 20% concealment is enough to make a hide check in, but not if you're even being casually observed (as you yourself have said). That's the Rules as Written way that I know to explain it. In a Rules as Intended way of explaining it, try this on: In a darkened, shadowy square, Hood peers about, trying unsuccessfully to pick up a hint of movement in the otherwise empty space. The arrow in his side throbs painfully, almost vocally screaming the effectiveness of his oppenent's potent attack potential. {Whizz!} A murderous projectile loaded with familiar psionic energy screams past Hood's ear, and the fletching of his nocked arrow tickles his cheek before he can conciously register even being shot at. He spins his torso in an arc to cover the alleyway to his right, and the small form of Mort can be seen diving for the cover which is painfully out of reach. Hood smiles grimly as his arrow arcs across the square to sink deeply into gnomish flesh... To me, you're just caught out in the open when you snipe without hard cover (darkness or no darkness) because your position becomes one from which you could not make a valid hide check to begin with. Really, this is Stormwind's call, however. The pitlord is the final arbiter in situations like this (in which the rules are either insufficient or ambiguous). Good fight, though - no matter the outcome. TM
McJarvis 09-14-06, 11:30 AM	I don't think that you're understanding that sniping still follows the hide rules (not the other way around: hide following the sniping rules). If you snipe while exposed (i.e.- there's no hard cover LOS-breaking cover or concealment for you within 1' per rank in the hide skill) then you're AUTOSPOTTED because Hood has LOS to you (darkness being unable to block LOS and all). I'm really sure you're wrong on this. Sniping is treated the same as Hide in Plain Sight and you actually can't move while sniping, so your logic doesn't make sense(you would NEVER get to re-hide if what you're saying is true, since you're taking a full-round action for the attack- you can't move to cover)... posing the question to ask-an-elder thread Cross posted: Sniping: In the Mort Vs Hood fight the issue of sniping is being brought up... TM is telling me that I require actual cover to re-hide during a sniping check, but I am pretty sure the rules indicate this isn't so. From the FAQ: Normally, a character can’t make a Hide check right after attacking a foe, since that foe’s attention is now focused on her (even if the attacker started her turn hidden or invisible). The sniping option (on page 76 in the Player’s Handbook) allows a character to make a move action to hide immediately after making a ranged attack against a foe at least 10 feet away, but this doesn’t apply to melee attacks Note that it specifically mentions sniping allowing you to hide if your opponent is capable of casually viewing you. incredibly effective. A character with the hide in plain sight class feature (described on page 48 in the Player’s Handbook) can make a Hide check even if she’s being observed. This doesn’t require any extra action to accomplish (unlike the sniping maneuver). Note again, it references sniping as a way of hiding while being observed. Now for my own interpretation on this: Normally you can take a standard action to attack, then take a move action to move to where you break LOS/re-hide with a -20 to your hide check. You can attack them in melee, attack from less than 10 feet away, whatever you want. Sniping, however, is different. Sniping lets you make 1 ranged attack & "preserve" your hidden check. The opponent doesn't auto-spot you when you do it because you're never unhidden in the first place. The only way sniping wouldn't work is if in the process of shooting you lose conceilment or cover- which doesn't happen to Mort because he's firing from darkness. Ie- you get to preserve your hide, but you don't get to move at all. It's really important that this is cleared up, because if I'm right then Mort stands a good chance of winning- If I'm wrong then sniping is a useless mechanic.(since I could always attack/move and hide rather than attack/stand still and hide)
Zevox 09-14-06, 12:56 PM	@ TM - McJarvis is right, I think you're misinterpretting sniping. If what you say is true, sniping could not be done at all, because any time you have the LoS required to make an attack, your opponent would auto-spot you when you make it. Being auto-spotted in mid snipe completely eliminates the point of the manuever, which is to preserve your hiding status at the expense of both your standard and move actions. Just look at any other fight involving a sniper and you'll see thats how its done. And the being within 1' per rank of cover thing is for being able to hide while on the move, it has nothing at all to do with sniping. On the other hand, McJarvis is slightly wrong about how it normally works. If you attack from hiding but do not snipe or have Hide in Plain Sight, you can only hide again by breaking LoS (not just taking cover and a -20 to hiding). Zevox
McJarvis 09-14-06, 01:21 PM	If you attack from hiding but do not snipe or have Hide in Plain Sight, you can only hide again by breaking LoS (not just taking cover and a -20 to hiding). Zevox My bad, I meant to say total cover was necessary for normal attacks. Edited in that you need to break LOS.
MindWandererB 09-14-06, 01:41 PM	Right. Basically, if you have any condition which permits hiding (HiPS, cover, or concealment), you can use it to snipe without establishing an auto-spot. In other words, there is no such thing as an auto-spot when there is cover or concealment--in fact, that's the definition of an auto-spot (a lack of anything that allows you to hide).
TheMagister 09-14-06, 02:01 PM	Well, whatever Stormwind decides, I will abide by it. I stand corrected on the sniping issue. There's a certain UMD paladin/rogue that might make a comeback. TM
McJarvis 09-14-06, 03:18 PM	Jeppz! Gladius should be ready for Mort 2.0 soon...to be unveiled in a week or two. This fight as taught me much. Looking forward to an edit to the end of the fight that will take into account mort's tactics & sniping rules. :-)
Stormwind 09-14-06, 05:22 PM	@McJarvis, TM: I have followed the disscussion but haven't had enough time to edit the fight. I will try to get this done in the next day or so.
TheMagister 09-15-06, 07:26 AM	Take your time. We've waited three weeks for this to happen...what's a few more days? =) TM
McJarvis 09-16-06, 11:29 AM	I'm with TM on that one, for sure. Look forward to reading the revised fight when it comes :)
Stormwind 09-19-06, 01:37 PM	@McJarvis, TM: Ok, the revised fight is up. Due to my earlier misunderstanding of partial concealment, Hoods actions are now slightly different, and due to McJarvis's clarification of Mort's tactics, Mort's actions are too. I have tried to stay true to the tactics as much as possible. Unfortunately Mort's serious deficiency with regards to speed was his downfall in the end.
TheMagister 09-19-06, 07:47 PM	WhooHoo! {Final Fantasy VII Encounter Win Music Playing}
McJarvis 09-20-06, 12:30 AM	@McJarvis, TM: Ok, the revised fight is up. Due to my earlier misunderstanding of partial concealment, Hoods actions are now slightly different, and due to McJarvis's clarification of Mort's tactics, Mort's actions are too. I have tried to stay true to the tactics as much as possible. Unfortunately Mort's serious deficiency with regards to speed was his downfall in the end. My intent in my tactics may have been "Keep my distance(stay at 110 ft for shots)", but I did not say such- thus I will not contest this. Though I'm convinced if Mort had kept his distance he would have won. Hood has no way to detect him really ;)