Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Caterane 03-29-06, 07:52 AM	We all know that undead are one of the most common enemies encountered in the D&D Game. There are many prestige classes that explicitely deal with them, or specialize in even only one kind of undead, so frequent they are. They are part of the core rules and any player character who picks anti-undead abilities or equipment hasn't done anything wrong. This is different in the Core Coliseum. The powerful turn undead ability is almost useless except for when you use it for Divine Might - the side application becoming the main application for this ability. Many anti-undead (as well as pro-undead) spells can readily be ignored in the coco when they're popular choices in any gaming group. The list goes on and on. The reason for this is simple: undead are underrepresented in the coco. They appear on quests (and for the handful on campaigns once in a while) but this is not enough to justify specialization against this broad and common creature type. The reason is the nature of the coco. Here, the main attraction is PC vs PC fights, and there is basically only one undead creature available: the ghost (the lich and the vampire are too high in ECL to be played) and we all know how difficult that one is to play. So I thought about a fix and it came in form of Libris Mortis. Although non-core, it proposes some Level Adjustments for a handful of undead. This can be seen as a (necessary) house rule to fix undead appearances rather than letting non-core stuff in. I am sure that "coming up" with some LA doesn't violate the license; we could theoretically do the same for other CR only creatures aswell. Here are the Level Adjustments. The old core ones are posted in gray. Ghoul..........(2HD)...(LA+3)...(ECL 5) Ghost..........(1HD)...(LA+5)...(ECL 6) Ghast..........(4HD)...(LA+4)...(ECL 8) Wight..........(4HD)...(LA+4)...(ECL 8) Vampire Spawn..(4HD)...(LA+4)...(ECL 8) Vampire........(1HD)...(LA+8)...(ECL 9) Mummy..........(8HD)...(LA+5)...(ECL13) Lich...........(11HD)..(LA+4)...(ECL15) Morgh..........(14HD)..(LA+6)...(ECL20) Additionally, there are rules for undead followers that convert a CR in an ECL-equivalent for followers of the leadership feat. If you for example would gain 10 level 1 followers, and 2 lvl 3 followers, and 1 level 5 follower, you could pick 10 Skeletons (1HD), 2 Zombies (4HD) and a Ghoul. Ghoul.............5 Shadow............6 Allip.............7 Ghast.............7 Wight.............7 Skeleton (1HD)....1 Skeleton (2HD)....2 Skeleton (4HD)....3 Skeleton (6HD)....4 Skeleton (8HD)....5 Skeleton (10HD)...6 Skeleton (12HD)...7 Zombie (1HD)......1 Zombie (2HD)......2 Zombie (4HD)......3 Zombie (6HD)......4 Zombie (8HD)......5 Zombie (10HD).....6 Zombie (12HD).....7 This would bring in more undead into the arena and in turn make anti-undead abilities more potent and useful. What do you think about that? Perhaps you have another idea for making undead more frequent in the coco? Cat
NiQil 03-29-06, 08:22 AM	Ummm...what happened to not doing any additional add-ons for awhile? You had stated after the random arenas were finished that we were going to hold off on any further rules changes for a while. Or did you forget about all the complaints and long-time visitors that left because too much was changing too fast? This topic should be shelved for a time further down the road....we haven't even finished the random arenas yet.
Caterane 03-29-06, 08:32 AM	First of all, this is only a proposal and I want to see the reaction first. Secondly, I haven't forgotten about settling down for a while but this is nothing that affects the community as a whole. It only makes some undead playable, unlike the Skill changes that brought the complaints up in the first place. It is a totally different situation. Finally, you just proposed a change yourself in the Council. Have you forgotten about all the complaints and long-time visitors that left because too much was changing too fast? Just because I called it "Living Gladius Add-On" doesn't put this into the same category as the mentioned "Living Gladius Add-On: Skills".
CaptainStrong 03-29-06, 09:01 AM	I'd have to give it some thought, as my necromancer/summoner currently has 3x 1 HD worth of undead skeletons that he has commanded. If I took the leadership feat and got more undead, that could be somewhat handy. However, would they be any more useful than real followers? I could take those followers with me into the arena, where some of them could form a tower shield wall, and others could heal me. All the undead can do is gribble and munch on brains. I think we should hold off on this change for a while, seeing as there are some underlying issues regarding change in the CoCo. I think that for now, there are always campaigns and quests for those characters that want to rattle the bones.
Pittbull 03-29-06, 09:32 AM	First of all, Barthleby likes to see more undead oponents! :D I need to make up my mind about more and more non-core-rules.
SauroGrenom 03-29-06, 09:35 AM	To my mind, this is a very minor change being suggested. All we are talking about is adding a few more options to the list of playable races and leadership allies. I think it's ok to do that. Few of these races will actually be used anyway. The lowest LA is +3 and look at how many CoCo gladiators we have who are Grig's, or Nixies, or Skum, or Pseudo Dragons, or Harpy's or 3 armed Sahuagin. None that I can see. The only LA three things used are templates, and that's the Half-Dragon and the natural Lycanthrope templates. Look at one of the already existing races and compare say a Ghoul to a Skum or Pseudo Dragon. Comparable power overall, but the ghoul automaticially looses vs any cleric. Meh. I'd take the Pseudo Dragon. BTW I think you could put wraiths, shadows and specters on the list as well. The incorpreal undead would be more fun to play IMHO.
Mal-2 03-29-06, 09:47 AM	Well, there's a few oddities here. First, I agree with SauroGrenom, none of these leap out at me as attractive races to play, but that's okay. More options are good (in my opinion), and a couple of these might make for fun play. Second, I see a few rules problems with some of the races, particularly with advancement. For instance, the Ghoul (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ghoul.htm) starts with 2 HD and LA +3. The Advancement line for a Ghoul is: 3 HD (Medium). So, you can start at ECL 5, advance to ECL 6, and then retire as you are no longer able to advance. You could allow Ghouls to advance into ghasts at 4 HD, but that requires them to jump leagues: A 3 HD Ghoul is ECL 6, and a 4 HD Ghast is ECL 8. Then the Ghast can only advance to 8 HD, ECL 12. I realize that's above our current frozen leagues, but it still puts a hard cap on Ghast characters. The rest of the undead look to have similar problems. They all advance by hit dice, not character class, and most of them have caps on the hit dice they can gain. Vampire spawn don't look like they can ever advance, for instance!
funnymanmike 03-29-06, 10:05 AM	i know i am pretty new to the coco, and am not sure if i should even be posting here, but here is an idea. create 2-3 basic undead per ELC have whats called "Week of the damned" the same strange magic that encompases the city to resurect people upon death needs to expell the death from all of the fights some how, so every x deaths, the week of the damned occures, the streets of gladius are overun with undead so not a quest per say but a world event, every fight that week is against a random undead for that ECL, you only need 2-3 to add varity. the other otpion would be very similar but army's of undead. 1 person ironman, after every undead you kill a new one comes at you until you die. every undead you kill, you gain xp = to a fight lost, giving you the chance to earn more than you could at a simple win.
Caterane 03-29-06, 10:09 AM	@Sauro: Dito. @Mal2: With a LA, they can advance in classes aswell.
Abyssal Stalker 03-29-06, 10:55 AM	More undead? Sounds cool to me! Jonathon needs a target for his Rebuke Undead 6 times per day -ability!
Pittbull 03-29-06, 10:56 AM	Yes, Sauro is right! I say: Lets go Undead! Lets go!
barrel_master 03-29-06, 10:58 AM	I don't think it's necessary to change anything. The classes with turning abilites are already quite strong and this just makes rouges and such less viable. The undead thing isn't a huge problm as is and as such I see no reason to change things.
Book5 03-29-06, 11:54 AM	Book5 votes YAY! Its not like were porting the entire Libris Mortis into the arena, just using the book (and wotc) as a benchmark for an undeclared (but core compliant) statistic of the currently supported race options... and putting them on the player list. Not that big. The races were already present, simply undefined. Me? Oh, I wont be making a shadow character.. well not a primary shadow character. A shadow cohort perhaps.... :P (Ba'al won't be taking leadership....)
Gonbow 03-29-06, 12:24 PM	I like this idea; I've been thinking about suggesting we open up the selection of playable races by borrowing what we can from Savage Species; something this ties directly into. I would suggest that we look to that book for starting-point ECLs for these undead creatures, as it was written at the same time as 3.5 and should be fairly accurate (This according to Customer Service anyways). Once I get back to my dorm room I'll open up my book and provide the ECLs that it suggests in this post.
Mal-2 03-29-06, 01:21 PM	I like this idea; I've been thinking about suggesting we open up the selection of playable races by borrowing what we can from Savage Species; something this ties directly into. I would suggest that we look to that book for starting-point ECLs for these undead creatures, as it was written at the same time as 3.5 and should be fairly accurate (This according to Customer Service anyways). Ugh. I hate Savage Species. I know they claim it's 3.5 compatible, but every time they release a book that covers the same ground, they end up changing things. The most recent example to come up in my home game is the Half-Ogre. In Savage Species, it's a +1 LA race. In Races of Destiny it's LA +2. The stats are exactly the same, the only thing that changed is the Level Adjustment. I think it would be a bad idea for us to start including races out of Savage Species, especially if those same races are given a different write up in one of the more recent 3.5 publications.
MindWandererB 03-29-06, 02:54 PM	I agree that Savage Species is bad. I see no problem allowing the Libris Mortis LA's--they're probably a bit too high, which is fine. I seriously doubt that anyone will take advantage of this addition, but there's no reason not to allow it. Are there any other books with similar data on other creatures?
Ariel23 03-29-06, 03:41 PM	I have two thoughts: 1) The thing about Undead is, anti-Undead is a specialty, yes, but it is a speciality that is generally assumed to be in a standard party of 4. (Turnable, etc) Undead are not that powerful when pitted against an adventuring party for that reason. This would not be the case if they were unleashed one at a time upon unsuspecting expanding Duerghar and flying pixies and so on. 2) What would be the effect of Turn checks with all of these LA/characters? I can only assume by looking that it would be quite different from tabletop play. Wouldn't a 1 HD Lich only require a Turn Check of 5 (or 10 to destroy)? Make it rebuke and you can tell him to use up all his expendables, I guess. Or would we use ECL or what? I complain about this all the time, but here is a good analysis of the turning/HD/CR rules if you are interested: http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/opinions/turningundead.html I don't really complain that clerics can't turn a lot of things, but I complain with the emphasis placed upon turning in the game--as though it is so special--when in fact it is largely useless. It works best against undead and zombies and run-of-the-mill monsters, but those are easily dispatched by the party without divine intervention. I.e., with sword and mace. In other words, turning is primarily useless when you'd most like it to be useful.
Usurpator 03-29-06, 03:53 PM	I'm not against introducing undead in general, but I would certainly not do it for the major reason stated: to help make the turn undead ability useful. Turn undead is a boring ability, its an all or nothing affair and doesn't result in interesting fights at all. Turn undead will have almost zero effect on tactics of undead characters, and countermeasures are nearly impossible. On the other hand, some undead abilities can also be an automatic I win button (a reason why I dislike Ghosts in the arena). I don't mind if you experiment with one low ECL undead races like Ghouls. No need to introduce a whole list of them at once if its experimental anyway. As NiQil said, I would prefer to see some alternative arena's appear first.
StoneTree 03-29-06, 05:00 PM	MY problem with the living dead is the lack of a low-end, corporeal intelligent undead. It's not anything I expect to be fixed... but if I want to play (or DM) an undead elvish swordsman, there arn't many ways to go about that. Vampires are about all that leap to mind. And mummies, but they're kinda lame. If you could just grab a +2 LA to slap the undead type on something, that'd be pretty cool. But given the core rules of D&D, undead PCs suffer serious plausibility issues at low to mid levels.
lonewolf 03-29-06, 05:20 PM	Im with Sauro on this: THe change is minor; so sure, why not.
KerlanRayne 03-30-06, 05:24 AM	create 2-3 basic undead per ELC have whats called "Week of the damned" the same strange magic that encompases the city to resurect people upon death needs to expell the death from all of the fights some how, so every x deaths, the week of the damned occures, the streets of gladius are overun with undead so not a quest per say but a world event, every fight that week is against a random undead for that ECL, you only need 2-3 to add varity. the other otpion would be very similar but army's of undead. 1 person ironman, after every undead you kill a new one comes at you until you die. every undead you kill, you gain xp = to a fight lost, giving you the chance to earn more than you could at a simple win.I like the first one. The second one is interesting. KerlanRayne
Caterane 03-30-06, 06:44 AM	Yes, this is indeed an interesting concept which we can keep in the back of our minds. Global Events (or Random Events) could happen once in a while and affect the pairings in that you don't fight gladiators but whatever the Global Event brings up. This is actually the solution I was looking for for "Bounty Missions" for the Reputation system I am planning to implement when the community can bear an additional Add-On. (1) We would create 20-30 Global Events just like the Guild Random Events. (2) Every week, there's a 25% chance of such a Global Event happening. Alternatively, there's an event each week but the league it affects is rolled. (3) I roll on the Global Event table to determine the event that happens. (4) Instead of pairings, gladiators (of the rolled league?) have to fight what the Global Event says, like "Week of the Damned" when undead are the main foes. The rewards for that are defined in the Reputation System (titles, landgrants, etc).
TheMagister 03-30-06, 08:18 AM	I like change. funnymanmike's idea is the best one so far for the introduction of undead to Gladius. I wouldn't mind adding vampire spawn to the list of playable races as a template. We gots da full-mooners, why not da hate-sun-risers? As for the rest, ghouls and such...I'd have trouble suspending my belief for those as well. I mean, they're all but mindless... TM
Mal-2 03-30-06, 08:28 AM	As for the rest, ghouls and such...I'd have trouble suspending my belief for those as well. I mean, they're all but mindless... Ghouls are usually smarter than the creatures they're created from! Ghoul base attributes: Str 13, Dex 15, Con --, Int 13, Wis 14, Cha 12
Caterane 03-30-06, 08:28 AM	@TM: Ghouls gain a +2 racial bonus to Intelligence. That's more than any human, halfling, gnome and most elfs gain.
Book5 03-30-06, 10:51 AM	Most of the undead have LA too high to seriously consider taking at character creation. On the other hand - its a template that is very very easy to add later on. RP/Credits wise it neater and not really that expensive to convert an extant character into an undead. That remindes me! @Caterane - Can I buy "ghost insurance" ?? I don't want to make Tan a ghost.. but if/when he goes on a quest... if he dies.. I would rather he come back as a ghost... instead of him getting dragged back to the nimbus. Only as a contingency mind you, and the next quest (after some arena) would be, in fact, to get resurected! Weird sequence of events; I know, but it sounds so intruiging! Optimization and roleplaying wise. Death and rebirth.. etc etc etc. Please for the love of the shadow... don't use savage species for anything more then a benchmark to isolate the LA+ for undeclared races. I see no reason not to pop an LA+0 on a cat.. a house cat.. and let the criminally insane write up a "mittens" I can smell your brains ... and you thought this sblock was going to be SOOOO long didnt you! ;) Yeah that said we shouldn't feel bad about refering to pieces of non-core material insomuch as they are extrapolating (with authority) basic core rules. LAs for included races... maybe some stuff (services - living guilds) out of builders guide? -er- Im drawing a blank on something else that would be as innocuous as LA adjustments. Just in case anyone is concerned about refrencing "copyrighted" material. The proverbial (and legal) "Product Identity" that has been licensed to us by wotc. First question: Isnt the table of LA adjustments copyrighted? Yes. The table is. As long as we are not reprinting the table ..as is.. ..pretty much impossible actually... then all we are doing is redeclaring "game rules" in our own format. But arn't the game rules copyrighted..? HaHA! Common misconception but - NO. Can't be. Do you think Milton Bradley gets money from all those wysiwyg and polywog monopoly games? Yes they do, but why? Because the "monopoly" is written on the box with big bright letters. Thats why. You can make "monopoly" and sell it and everything so long as there is no refrence to any of the trademarked names of the actual monopoly game. The rules of "pass go collect 200$" cannot be legally copyrighted. We can just run around and yoink any of the rules we want without fear of infringment? As long as we don't call a hoopak a hoopak we can have a weapon/instrument that has every single option a hoopak has. We can have the eye and the hand of "a lich" but not Vecna. If we find someone's write up for a boomarang we can just plain snap it up like candy - because its nothing more than a game rule analysis of a real world object. Thats legality however - we are concerned with the integrity of the core here. What about a DragonLance Arena? yep, now Im just runnin at the mouth! All this and that said. Copyright is not the issue. Margret Weis is a beautiful and talanted woman who would never even dream of sending in the soverign stone ninjas to "shut down" the coco for reprinting the hoopak stats, or allowing the solamniac PrCs, or taldas minotaurs, or anything at all. Shes coo' like dat. Green Ronin? I dunno, dont care, doesnt matter. Then what are you going on about!?! I just wanted to take a moment to clear up any confusions anyone might have had about what is and is not the issue with copyrighting. There is no issue with copyright. As long as we stick to the rules.... but that what we do here right? "stick to the rules" :D :cool: :D
King Uther 03-30-06, 12:20 PM	As far as Global events are concerned, 25% is a large percent. It should be rare and memorable. For instance, ToK and I had been working on a story about a Gith invasion, which would mean all the gladiators would have to repel the invasion. There is still one story component that needs to be worked out before we do that, however. Some major events: 1. Neighboring country invades! 2. The undead rise! 3. A layer to the Abyss opens! 4. Animals go crazy! 5. An epic Verminlord sends his army! 6. A timegate opens, revealing dinosaurs! 7. A Planar Gate opens(law/chaos/good/evil based enemies?) I think undead can be incorporated, but as intelligent undead couldn't we pursue character classes? At least for the purposes of enjoying different types of characters.
TheMagister 03-30-06, 02:23 PM	Ghouls are usually smarter than the creatures they're created from! Ghoul base attributes: Str 13, Dex 15, Con --, Int 13, Wis 14, Cha 12 ...and all that intelligence and willpower is devoted to one ideal. EAT WARM PINK FLESHY THINGS!! So they're canny and cunning, but really single-minded. I'd have a hard time imagining a ghoul tramping down Gladius' Main Strip, cruising the shops for a new set of armor and not see him "mindlessly" ravaging a peasant instead. Sorry for the vagueness of my usage of the word, "mindless". TM
Caterane 03-31-06, 09:44 AM	Seems like most agree that adding a LA to some undead isn't going to hurt. I'll add it to the rules and you can create such undead from next wednesday on.
SauroGrenom 03-31-06, 10:25 AM	Are we going to get an incorpreal undead? :plotting:
Caterane 03-31-06, 11:23 AM	double post
Caterane 03-31-06, 11:24 AM	Are we going to get an incorpreal undead? :plotting: The only proposals are Shadow (ECL 6 -> LA+3) and Allip (ECL 7 -> LA+3) but they have Strength -- which means that they cannot carry anything. I mean, I can add them but having no body slots is a huge drawback. Thoughts?
barrel_master 03-31-06, 12:13 PM	Seems like most agree that adding a LA to some undead isn't going to hurt. I'll add it to the rules and you can create such undead from next wednesday on. Wait a sec... I thought this we where still in the talking about it stages.
SauroGrenom 03-31-06, 12:29 PM	What about the Spectre or Wraith? I've given lots of thought about starting an Unbodied character. They also have a Str-- stat. So they simularly have no strength. My research tells that there are only a few options for what these characters can use as equipment. Ioun stones, ghost touch weapons and armor, tombs, and a few other items that are command word activated but do not need to be manipulated such as the bowl of summoning water elementals. In the Tavern a while back it was proposed that ghost touch armor be allowed to include equipment slots as part of the package. For example full plate includes gauntlets, boots and a helm, mabey even bracers, or a holy symbol engraved on the front in an amulet slot. Also every suit of armor probably has a belt included as part of getting it to stay on. Maybe your chain mail comes with an undershirt or vest. I could imagine that these pieces of the "armor" could be enchanted to have additional magical effects and be counted as equipment placed in additional slots. Even if that is not allowed, there are several valuable effects that can be placed on ghost touch weapons and armor. Often these effects are more expensive, but I suppose you pay the price for your incorpreal benefits. There are also several classes that rely less on equipment. For example a shadow character could be a psion, wilder or psywarrior. Even the sorcerer, druid, cleric or wizard may be workable with the Eskew Materials feat. If you have a familiar or animal companion, perhaps it can carry some of your "Equipment". It could hold a scroll that you read or a powerstone that you "touch" while you activate it.
Caterane 03-31-06, 01:38 PM	@Sauro: Good ideas but even if we do that, there's no way to set a LA for spectres and wraiths. For the Shadow and Allip we have at least a reference from Libris Mortis. This is especially important because else there will surely be a lot of complaints about a too low LA. Imagine we wouldn't have the LA+4 reference for the ghost but came up with +4 ourselves! @Barrel: When it seems that there are no more issues and most of the community being in agreement, I see no reason to delay it any further. Of course, if you want to add something, there's still time :)
Gonbow 03-31-06, 02:08 PM	@Caterane Okay, good to see this moving ahead (Albeit no one wanted to look at the SS la's... t'ever :P), but before you do, there is one thing that must be taken into account with several of these undead concepts before moving on. Minions. Ghouls create other ghouls, but dont control them so there is no problem there. Wights, Vampires and Mohrgs all create numerous amounts of undead under thier direct control with the ease of slaying an appropriate creature. Vampires have a set limit on how many spawn they control (twice their current HD), so it can be assumed that their spawn are included in the LA. Wights and Mohrgs however, do not have limits on how many spawn they can control. We have no rules in place for determining how to create spawn for use in the arena, how if at all they affect xp/gold, etc. This and a limit to the number of spawn PC wight's can control is needed before these undead are opened for use.
Caterane 03-31-06, 02:31 PM	We have no rules in place for determining how to create spawn for use in the arena, how if at all they affect xp/gold, etc. Rules of Gladius: Allies I (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6466763)
Gonbow 03-31-06, 03:21 PM	Annnnd that doesn't mention created spawn. Anywhere. It has Class Allies. Spawn are racial or template-based, not class. It has purchased allies. You don't buy spawn. It has skill allies. You don't 'diplomacy' your spawn or 'handle' them. It has feat allies. Spawn are not gained from any core feats. If has spell allies (Create Undead) which is as close as this comes I think, but should explicitly mention that this is where they fall. It has Mercenaries, but Spawn are not paid nor registered with the Guild of Mercanaries. So, if there is a category where these spawn belong, I believe it should be stated explicitly, as it is far too vague at the moment. And, as I was creating a ghoul (Because I really do like this idea) I took note of the fact that while they can be affected by true ressurection, it puts them back as whatever they were /while they were living/. Not as a undead (this is true for all undead). Perhaps a foot-note in the nimbus mechanics that undead are brought back as undead.
Caterane 03-31-06, 05:56 PM	@Gonbow: They count as normal allies and are limited by your maxCA. The benefit is that you can easily and without any ressources, feats, or skills gain allies anytime.
Gonbow 03-31-06, 10:32 PM	@Gonbow: They count as normal allies and are limited by your maxCA. The benefit is that you can easily and without any ressources, feats, or skills gain allies anytime. Which "normal" allies? All the allies have different rules on how you can acquire them, what they can do, how they are handled by maxCA (See the different between diplomacy allies with ECL, without ECL and all handle animal allies), etc. Do you have to miniquest for them? Can they be advanced(beofre and after getting them)? Can they be customized?
TheMagister 03-31-06, 10:35 PM	@Gonbow: They count as normal allies and are limited by your maxCA. The benefit is that you can easily and without any ressources, feats, or skills gain allies anytime. And that sounds okay to you? I'm for tabling this project until we hold a public poll to more directly get the CoCo members' opinions. TM
Mal-2 03-31-06, 11:57 PM	And that sounds okay to you? Seems okay to me. Treat them as leadership-type allies. Require a mini-quest to aquire, are brought into the arena by ECL. Does anyone know the reason Diplomacy allies are brought in by CR instead? Depending on the reasons for that, maybe created undead should do the same. Edit: With a bit of further thought, spawned undead should come in by ECL, otherwise you'll end up with the 6 HD gladiator wight with his 8 HD spawn.
Caterane 04-01-06, 04:26 AM	@Mal2: The reason is that they use the standard ability array (all 10s and 11s). They are not as powerful as a cohort or PC of that race. They also come without equipment, reducing their power further. For example, no one would use a Hill Giant from the MM (ECL 12). Additionally, if you customize him, the CR changes, not the ECL so we need CR to calculate his CA. @Gonbow: Spawns will use CR only to determine the CA. If we would use ECL, then the Spawn - who has the same ECL as the character - cannot be used. Similarily, Spawns are much weaker. With a CR-based CA for Shadows, a ECL 8 shadow character could have 2 spawns. With ECL-based he could have none. He would have a shadow not earlier than ECL 10 and at that point, a simple shadow is just not an appropriate encounter for a ECL 10 opponent; and one that uses up all your CA. The maxCA is your ECL-2. No ally can be higher than your ECL-2 (for ECL allies) or your ECL-4 (for CR allies). @Mal2: HD alone do not set the power of an ally. A 20HD Zombie vs 20HD Angel for example. And it's not uncommon or problematic that your ally has more HD than you. He just has to have less CR or ECL.
Abyssal Stalker 04-01-06, 04:46 AM	...and all that intelligence and willpower is devoted to one ideal. EAT WARM PINK FLESHY THINGS!! So they're canny and cunning, but really single-minded. I'd have a hard time imagining a ghoul tramping down Gladius' Main Strip, cruising the shops for a new set of armor and not see him "mindlessly" ravaging a peasant instead. Sorry for the vagueness of my usage of the word, "mindless". TMIt's not that hard to imagine a ghoul character in CoCo. The idea of "The Gravedigger" just popped in my mind. You should keep in mind that the fights aren't necessary happening in the arena, they can RP-wise be desribed as happening somewhere else. The foul creature that lurked the graveyards of Gladius was referred as the Gravedigger. It wasn't techincally alive, but the twisted power that kept him going on was called unlife. He once had a name other than what he now was called, but he couldn't recall it. All that mattered was the craving of flesh that took him over from time to time. The sun burned him and he could only move above surface after dusk had fallen. He dag up freshly buried corpses and feasted upon them. Sometimes his lust for flesh was too much to take and he snatched a beggar. The idea was to remain hidden. The paladins and the priests... Their light burned him...
Pitlords 04-01-06, 08:27 AM	The mentioned Undead are playable from now on. See Rules of Gladius: Races (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6463693) for more information on that.