New Credit system [Archive] - Wizards Community

New Credit system [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Arstimis
03-04-04, 01:34 PM Credits system was slightly changed: credits are a bit more important now. You'll gain a credit if you run more fights than pcs, you'll lose one if you run less fights than pcs. This was needed due to the grown number of pcs. I dont think this is a very good credit system at all.
Example: I have 1 active character. I moderate 0 fights. I lose 1 credit because I modded less fights than i had characters.
This doesnt make sense at all.

The biggest reason i dont agree with this rule, is now the arena mod/character situation is different. Right now there are more mods than there are fights. So people like me, and a few others get no fights, because there arent enough. We lose credits, not by choice, but because it is impossible to even break even.

I just dont see how it makes sense...
Myrridin
03-04-04, 01:41 PM Arstimis: I agree. It's one of the things I noticed, and was trying to figure out how to say.
Ethendril
03-04-04, 01:49 PM Originally posted by Arstimis
I dont think this is a very good credit system at all.
Example: I have 1 active character. I moderate 0 fights. I lose 1 credit because I modded less fights than i had characters.
This doesnt make sense at all.

Good point, Arstimis...

I hadn't thought of this before you said it, but fewer new people would come because you can't just have 1 character and not mod a fight.

The other side effect that I thought of is fewer unique builds like half-fiends, troglodytes, etc. It will make the arena less diverse and less interesting.
Arstimis
03-04-04, 01:54 PM Originally posted by Ethendril
The other side effect that I thought of is fewer unique builds like half-fiends, troglodytes, etc. It will make the arena less diverse and less interesting. Ya, with this system, it makes it quite impossible to gain enough credits to get ECL builds. There is already a 3(ECL-2) formula.
Lets say you are running one active character, and you start to mod to gain credits. Just to get something with an LA +2, You need 3 credits. That means you have to mod 2 fights a week, for 3 weeks, while only having one character.
I have two active characters, and its already quite impossible for me to just break even, as i would have to mod 2 fights..i didnt get any this week....
Ethendril
03-04-04, 02:29 PM Oh, the other problem I just thought of is that if I wanted to just have one gladiator and run two fights so I could build up credits...

there are not enough fights to go around. It's no longer possible to build up credits at all.
Magagumo
03-04-04, 03:35 PM There aren't enough fights to go around.

Look at it this way, if one needs 10 gladiators to run 5 fights, but everyone also needs to run a number of fights equal to their gladiators.. everyone loses creds. I never believed that many creds were being acked up at once, especially with us generally sharing the fight load, but this is just silly, MOh.

The old system had a nice benefit to it, this simply involves senseless punishment and bars anyone from trying out new ECL chars.
^Rayne^
03-04-04, 03:50 PM I agree with everything you guys are saying and I'm a bit confused by this system. It still seems like they are running it the old way and the only thing I can figure is that it means that this only occurs if a player has more than one active PC (the first one is free). Otherwise to keep my two PC's active I will have to DM two fights a week and for me that is two fights too many. I have time to run two for the privlage of having two gladiators but to have to run two fights a week to have two active PC's seems a bit of a high price. If I have to do this I will alternate which PC I run on a weekly basis so I don't have to run two fights a week which means one less gladiator for the ring!
Jindl
03-04-04, 05:21 PM By Elder Mod decision we will be reverting back to the old credit system. I have already posted a fix for the correct number of credits on the Tavern thread. Mo, Cat, and I will make the change to the roster/pairings thread soon.

-Jindl
Moherajikuyx
03-05-04, 07:51 AM :\ The advice is up from more than a week... Couldn't you guys wake up earlier? Given that the discussion started I moved back the credits but next week the new system should begin.

The reasons are:
- there should be a difference among a fight master (note: they were renamed after wizos request) who has no pcs and one who has one pc, if both don't run fights.
- there needs to be a credit sink other than the high LA pcs: so that there aren't endless rows on the roster.
- fms that stop moderating should not keep their credits forever, but neither should they lose all at once when they become too old (as happened to Mercy)
- this removes the need of monster fights 2*cost

This system makes credits get naturally balanced. We might make moderators lose only half credit if they get below 0: this would make it less harsh.

If you're worried about the arena diversity, it's easier to make the higher LA pcs cost 2.5 or 2 credits / ECL>2, instead than 3 as now, and remove the double cost for monster fights.

Magagumo... your calculation is wrong in the fact that it completely forgets the non-moderators, a thing that many moderators seem to do enthusiastically. We need to be more newbie-friendly if we want to see new people in the arena.

Let's try to not consider things frozen.. If this system after a while seems too harsh we'll try to find a compromise among the two. Something like half credits maybe.
Magagumo
03-05-04, 09:25 AM Actually, Moh, I was just considering that even new people might have been discouraged by the new system... Not ignoring non-mods here, butyour way made it impossible to get creds. Many new ppl would be great, but we will also always need new Mods as well. Your credit neglected to account for the fact that many of us don't have time to run more fights thsn we do pcs, I can handle 2 fightts occasionally, but never three. And if we never get creds, why would we even allow the ECL-boosting system to exist?

As I said, we're getting more Mods, and this place isn't being flooded with new people (yet ;)), so I think the old system is working just fine.
Arstimis
03-05-04, 01:56 PM For a really good arguement against the new credit system, look at Cat's arguement against it on the bottom on page 3 of the Core Coliseum Tavern
Moherajikuyx
03-05-04, 03:24 PM I spent the effort to give us a board, also to have a thread per argument.

Anyways, this discussion is open, I just didn't consider the thing such a problem.

The fact that, as Arstimis well explains,
I have 1 active character. I moderate 0 fights. I lose 1 credit because I modded less fights than i had characters.
This doesnt make sense at all.
is intended, and I think that it does make quite some sense. The reasons are in my above post...

Do you guys like to have credits for the sake of it? It's dangerous.. I don't consider this kind of thing when doing optimization calculations.
The credit system is a perfect example of multi-variable optimization system: a budget allocation for risk management, which needs just some calibration. Nothing personal. I think that Mag sees it correctly and to tell the truth he's right at saying that we don't have all that players; but I'm trying to prepare the field for that chance. Probably the best way would be finding a compromise among the two functions: the old being a max, and the new one a min. How about half way? Who suggests?

Consider that the wizos should put up, one of these days, a link to this thread from the CO board. This might call some people and I'd rather do this kind of changes with some time, than under pressure.

If these and those reasons don't make sense we'll just forget the issue: I still don't consider this such an important thing.
xeno_eleusis
03-05-04, 03:56 PM I've already told a few of my friends to join this board and make a CR2 build for 10/3. If we have a surplus of Mods and not enough regular users then maybe we can advertise on some other boards that we need more non-Mod users to join.
Caterane
03-05-04, 04:14 PM I have 1 active character. I moderate 0 fights. I lose 1 credit because I modded less fights than i had characters

You cannot force people to mod. What about the non-moderators? Don`t they lose a credit, too? If you say 'yes', they will quit the CoCo. If you now say 'No' then the most obvious line of thought would be to resign as a moderator and keep only 1 character active because the second one costs 2 fights just to break even.

Well, I will do it that way if it comes to this.

What this new system will do is turn away many moderators --> which results in less Pc because the ex-moderators can now only have 1 Pc active (without moderating = mod shortage). Let`s assume that there will be some Hardcore Moderators, a few, perhaps, who still want 2 PCs for 2 fights (despite that they could have 1 Pc for 0 fights) ...then we`ll have a deserted arena, perhaps 5 fights a week altogether because of gladiator AND moderator shortage.

But that`s all completely unnecessary because having many moderators is a good thing, a great thing, to have. Perhaps not everyone gets a fight to moderate, so what? Better than the other way around.

And then there`s still one other thing I don`t get onto: WHY is it necessary to decrease the number of gladiators??? And even IF we have to do this (whatever the reason may be) then just restrict everyone to 2 active gladiators which is a hundred times easier than the stupid new credit system. It won`t even turn moderators away. But as said: completely unnecessary.
Caterane
03-05-04, 04:27 PM Do you guys like to have credits for the sake of it?

1. To get higher LA races which adds flavor and diversity to the arena.
2. To spend them when you have less time due to real life issues but can still have your PCs fight. Might be your only fun in such times; ask me. When I am drowning in paperwork I don`t want to sit there and think "Damn lectures! Stealing me all my fun. If I had only the arena but unfortunately I have no credits and no time to mod either so I cannot participate."

Who suggests?

If you want to make credits more important then change one of the two reason why they are earned. A LA+ monster costs now 4 or even 5 credits per 1 LA.

Edit: I definately want to keep things as they are! The reason why I am making suggestion is to show that there are better ways to handle this IF it would come to life. In no way do I support that new madness; not in a single line.
Caterane
03-05-04, 04:53 PM Here an example how the new credit system would affect the current roster (only one thing to consider: let`s assume Vryk fights ...take the first one: Artavian Voidblade):

Archangel Ixidor, Caterane vs. Dra'kel Mourning, MotherBast: ^Rayne^

Caterane can only mod one fight. He doesn`t want to get a negative credit so he has Ixidor sit out (= one Pc less fighting). This results in Motherbast having an inactive character (= 2 Pcs less), and Rayne having one fight less to mod (= 1 Mod less).

Angosh, Pittbull chllgs Aiki Auk, ^Rayne^: Ethendril
Artavian Voidblade, Battousai2005 chllgs Vryk, ^Rayne^: Arstimis

Rayne (let`s assume lvl 2 would`ve been even) now has 2 Pcs and NO fight to mod which results in 2 negative credits. So he has Vryk sit out and Aiku sit out (= 4 PCs less, 2 Mods less). Rayne has no active PCs this week. Sorry Rayne.

This results in Battousai AND Pitbull having no PC this week too (= 6 PCs less). Artismis was the mod who loses this fight (= 3 Mods less). He also gets 1 negative credit (there is no other fight to mod) but he doesn`t want that so he has Laucian Evior sit out (= 7 PCs less). Ethendril cannot mod too (=4 Mods less)

Laucian Evior, Arstimis vs. Hadrigan Hillbuilder, Bishop the Bardican: Hatzinger

This results in Bishop the Bardican losing a PC (= 8 PCs less) and Hatzinger to lose a fight to mod (= 5 Mods less). Hatzinger has PCs too who are now not able to fight:

Oetzi, Hatzinger vs. Smushy, cellardweller: Caterane

Caterane loses the fight he wanted to moderate (= 6 mods less) but as we remember: he doesnt want a neg.credit so he has the Harvester sit out too (= 9 PCs less). No fight and no PC for Cat. Cellardwellar has similar problems... which in turn give Jindl and Motherbast problems too

Aku, Jindl vs. Lance, cellardweller: MotherBast

...and so on and so on. This was what I meant with a downward spiral.

And this was only because one moderator (Cat) had one PC (Ixidor) sit out! Now imagine what happens if the other moderators do this!! And they HAVE TO because everyone who doesn`t remove one PC gets a negative credit! He cannot compensate with more moderating because there won`t be enough fights to moderate. There will be no arena anymore!

I really can`t believe that you don`t see this, Mo.
Ethendril
03-05-04, 05:09 PM Since I started here in December, I've only had one active gladiator and one fight each week. I ended up building up some credits and made an interesting character. I really like the unique builds in the arena.

If the new system goes into effect, I see no reason for me to continue to mod. If I can have one character active (like I have in the past), and not mod a fight, why wouldn't I do that? I see no reason to work for no benefit.

My plan was to build one more character, then have two gladiators and run one fight. But if the new system starts, I don't see any reason to do that. I would have to run an extra two fights, which I don't have the time or desire to do.

-Ethendril
^Rayne^
03-05-04, 05:09 PM Cat I totally agree with your assessment of the situation and like you I'm not happy with this new method at all. It cripples the system rather than supports it. I really think this needs to get fixed either back to the old way or some new method that doesn't penalize a person who wants more than one PC for the arena battles. We are here to have fun but the way the system is being changed will only hurt everyone involved in the short and long run.

Rayne
Arstimis
03-05-04, 05:33 PM Very well put Cat.
Since it seems obvious that we must put the system back in, which worked quite fine, I suggest a couple new things to add to it.

*Fights should be handed out differently.
Step 1) Every mod does 1 fight. So mods that only play 1 character can build up 1 credit, mods that have 2 characters break even.
Step 2) Fights are then given to people who need them because of the number of PC's
Step 3) Fights are given to moderators who request them, because they want to gain credits.

*People should only get negative credits, for things they choose not to do; like not finishing the fight on time, or choosing not to moderate a fight, while having more than 1 character active. People should not get negative levels if they have no choice in the matter.
Example: I decide i want to play with 3 active characters. The fights are being passed out using the above system. I get 1 fight from Step 1. As Step 2 is in progress the fights are passed out and there are none left for me. I end up having 3 active characters, but only modding 1 fight. Right now..even with the old system, i would get a negative credit, from something i didnt choose. If i take 1 character out, so i dont get that negative credit, the downward spiral, that Cat explained, starts.

Do these two suggestions make sense?
Ethendril
03-05-04, 05:35 PM I should also say that I don't think building up credits is the best way to get a high-level gladiator.

If I earn one credit a week, I can add one level to my gladiator every three weeks.

If I just have a gladiator fighting, I go up at least that often because of the bump rule.

It just doesn't seem that things have been out of hand with the old system. There are only four gladiators that were created using credits. I find them all very interesting, but I think they will still be rare.
Moherajikuyx
03-05-04, 06:16 PM OK then, that's fine, but we'll have to keep things under strict control in case a lot of new pcs arrive.
Caterane
03-05-04, 06:21 PM So what? Let them come! We have more than enough moderators! I still don`t see your problem.

If it`s about the roster workload, I`ll gladly take over; completely if need be. No problem.

BTW: what makes you think just because of the upcomming link to the CO thread hundreds of people will flood in? We spent a full year there and only the few we now have participated.
Battousai2005
03-05-04, 10:16 PM Originally posted by Moherajikuyx
OK then, that's fine, but we'll have to keep things under strict control in case a lot of new pcs arrive.
New PC's are a good thing. For moderators as well as not. That way it it possible for people like Cat with a lot of characters to keep more of those characters active. Also, while it is true that moderating a fight takes a lot of time (not from actual experience as i didn't get a fight this week :bigeyes: [which, btw, shows how this new credit system could me a problem]), but it allows moderators to get credits easier. Anyway, more PC's eventually means more moderators.

Oh, almost forgot. Non mods get to see new characters in action. adds flavor, no?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Arstimis 03-04-04, 01:34 PM	Credits system was slightly changed: credits are a bit more important now. You'll gain a credit if you run more fights than pcs, you'll lose one if you run less fights than pcs. This was needed due to the grown number of pcs. I dont think this is a very good credit system at all. Example: I have 1 active character. I moderate 0 fights. I lose 1 credit because I modded less fights than i had characters. This doesnt make sense at all. The biggest reason i dont agree with this rule, is now the arena mod/character situation is different. Right now there are more mods than there are fights. So people like me, and a few others get no fights, because there arent enough. We lose credits, not by choice, but because it is impossible to even break even. I just dont see how it makes sense...
Myrridin 03-04-04, 01:41 PM	Arstimis: I agree. It's one of the things I noticed, and was trying to figure out how to say.
Ethendril 03-04-04, 01:49 PM	Originally posted by Arstimis I dont think this is a very good credit system at all. Example: I have 1 active character. I moderate 0 fights. I lose 1 credit because I modded less fights than i had characters. This doesnt make sense at all. Good point, Arstimis... I hadn't thought of this before you said it, but fewer new people would come because you can't just have 1 character and not mod a fight. The other side effect that I thought of is fewer unique builds like half-fiends, troglodytes, etc. It will make the arena less diverse and less interesting.
Arstimis 03-04-04, 01:54 PM	Originally posted by Ethendril The other side effect that I thought of is fewer unique builds like half-fiends, troglodytes, etc. It will make the arena less diverse and less interesting. Ya, with this system, it makes it quite impossible to gain enough credits to get ECL builds. There is already a 3(ECL-2) formula. Lets say you are running one active character, and you start to mod to gain credits. Just to get something with an LA +2, You need 3 credits. That means you have to mod 2 fights a week, for 3 weeks, while only having one character. I have two active characters, and its already quite impossible for me to just break even, as i would have to mod 2 fights..i didnt get any this week....
Ethendril 03-04-04, 02:29 PM	Oh, the other problem I just thought of is that if I wanted to just have one gladiator and run two fights so I could build up credits... there are not enough fights to go around. It's no longer possible to build up credits at all.
Magagumo 03-04-04, 03:35 PM	There aren't enough fights to go around. Look at it this way, if one needs 10 gladiators to run 5 fights, but everyone also needs to run a number of fights equal to their gladiators.. everyone loses creds. I never believed that many creds were being acked up at once, especially with us generally sharing the fight load, but this is just silly, MOh. The old system had a nice benefit to it, this simply involves senseless punishment and bars anyone from trying out new ECL chars.
^Rayne^ 03-04-04, 03:50 PM	I agree with everything you guys are saying and I'm a bit confused by this system. It still seems like they are running it the old way and the only thing I can figure is that it means that this only occurs if a player has more than one active PC (the first one is free). Otherwise to keep my two PC's active I will have to DM two fights a week and for me that is two fights too many. I have time to run two for the privlage of having two gladiators but to have to run two fights a week to have two active PC's seems a bit of a high price. If I have to do this I will alternate which PC I run on a weekly basis so I don't have to run two fights a week which means one less gladiator for the ring!
Jindl 03-04-04, 05:21 PM	By Elder Mod decision we will be reverting back to the old credit system. I have already posted a fix for the correct number of credits on the Tavern thread. Mo, Cat, and I will make the change to the roster/pairings thread soon. -Jindl
Moherajikuyx 03-05-04, 07:51 AM	:\ The advice is up from more than a week... Couldn't you guys wake up earlier? Given that the discussion started I moved back the credits but next week the new system should begin. The reasons are: - there should be a difference among a fight master (note: they were renamed after wizos request) who has no pcs and one who has one pc, if both don't run fights. - there needs to be a credit sink other than the high LA pcs: so that there aren't endless rows on the roster. - fms that stop moderating should not keep their credits forever, but neither should they lose all at once when they become too old (as happened to Mercy) - this removes the need of monster fights 2*cost This system makes credits get naturally balanced. We might make moderators lose only half credit if they get below 0: this would make it less harsh. If you're worried about the arena diversity, it's easier to make the higher LA pcs cost 2.5 or 2 credits / ECL>2, instead than 3 as now, and remove the double cost for monster fights. Magagumo... your calculation is wrong in the fact that it completely forgets the non-moderators, a thing that many moderators seem to do enthusiastically. We need to be more newbie-friendly if we want to see new people in the arena. Let's try to not consider things frozen.. If this system after a while seems too harsh we'll try to find a compromise among the two. Something like half credits maybe.
Magagumo 03-05-04, 09:25 AM	Actually, Moh, I was just considering that even new people might have been discouraged by the new system... Not ignoring non-mods here, butyour way made it impossible to get creds. Many new ppl would be great, but we will also always need new Mods as well. Your credit neglected to account for the fact that many of us don't have time to run more fights thsn we do pcs, I can handle 2 fightts occasionally, but never three. And if we never get creds, why would we even allow the ECL-boosting system to exist? As I said, we're getting more Mods, and this place isn't being flooded with new people (yet ;)), so I think the old system is working just fine.
Arstimis 03-05-04, 01:56 PM	For a really good arguement against the new credit system, look at Cat's arguement against it on the bottom on page 3 of the Core Coliseum Tavern
Moherajikuyx 03-05-04, 03:24 PM	I spent the effort to give us a board, also to have a thread per argument. Anyways, this discussion is open, I just didn't consider the thing such a problem. The fact that, as Arstimis well explains, I have 1 active character. I moderate 0 fights. I lose 1 credit because I modded less fights than i had characters. This doesnt make sense at all. is intended, and I think that it does make quite some sense. The reasons are in my above post... Do you guys like to have credits for the sake of it? It's dangerous.. I don't consider this kind of thing when doing optimization calculations. The credit system is a perfect example of multi-variable optimization system: a budget allocation for risk management, which needs just some calibration. Nothing personal. I think that Mag sees it correctly and to tell the truth he's right at saying that we don't have all that players; but I'm trying to prepare the field for that chance. Probably the best way would be finding a compromise among the two functions: the old being a max, and the new one a min. How about half way? Who suggests? Consider that the wizos should put up, one of these days, a link to this thread from the CO board. This might call some people and I'd rather do this kind of changes with some time, than under pressure. If these and those reasons don't make sense we'll just forget the issue: I still don't consider this such an important thing.
xeno_eleusis 03-05-04, 03:56 PM	I've already told a few of my friends to join this board and make a CR2 build for 10/3. If we have a surplus of Mods and not enough regular users then maybe we can advertise on some other boards that we need more non-Mod users to join.
Caterane 03-05-04, 04:14 PM	I have 1 active character. I moderate 0 fights. I lose 1 credit because I modded less fights than i had characters You cannot force people to mod. What about the non-moderators? Don`t they lose a credit, too? If you say 'yes', they will quit the CoCo. If you now say 'No' then the most obvious line of thought would be to resign as a moderator and keep only 1 character active because the second one costs 2 fights just to break even. Well, I will do it that way if it comes to this. What this new system will do is turn away many moderators --> which results in less Pc because the ex-moderators can now only have 1 Pc active (without moderating = mod shortage). Let`s assume that there will be some Hardcore Moderators, a few, perhaps, who still want 2 PCs for 2 fights (despite that they could have 1 Pc for 0 fights) ...then we`ll have a deserted arena, perhaps 5 fights a week altogether because of gladiator AND moderator shortage. But that`s all completely unnecessary because having many moderators is a good thing, a great thing, to have. Perhaps not everyone gets a fight to moderate, so what? Better than the other way around. And then there`s still one other thing I don`t get onto: WHY is it necessary to decrease the number of gladiators??? And even IF we have to do this (whatever the reason may be) then just restrict everyone to 2 active gladiators which is a hundred times easier than the stupid new credit system. It won`t even turn moderators away. But as said: completely unnecessary.
Caterane 03-05-04, 04:27 PM	Do you guys like to have credits for the sake of it? 1. To get higher LA races which adds flavor and diversity to the arena. 2. To spend them when you have less time due to real life issues but can still have your PCs fight. Might be your only fun in such times; ask me. When I am drowning in paperwork I don`t want to sit there and think "Damn lectures! Stealing me all my fun. If I had only the arena but unfortunately I have no credits and no time to mod either so I cannot participate." Who suggests? If you want to make credits more important then change one of the two reason why they are earned. A LA+ monster costs now 4 or even 5 credits per 1 LA. Edit: I definately want to keep things as they are! The reason why I am making suggestion is to show that there are better ways to handle this IF it would come to life. In no way do I support that new madness; not in a single line.
Caterane 03-05-04, 04:53 PM	Here an example how the new credit system would affect the current roster (only one thing to consider: let`s assume Vryk fights ...take the first one: Artavian Voidblade): Archangel Ixidor, Caterane vs. Dra'kel Mourning, MotherBast: ^Rayne^ Caterane can only mod one fight. He doesn`t want to get a negative credit so he has Ixidor sit out (= one Pc less fighting). This results in Motherbast having an inactive character (= 2 Pcs less), and Rayne having one fight less to mod (= 1 Mod less). Angosh, Pittbull chllgs Aiki Auk, ^Rayne^: Ethendril Artavian Voidblade, Battousai2005 chllgs Vryk, ^Rayne^: Arstimis Rayne (let`s assume lvl 2 would`ve been even) now has 2 Pcs and NO fight to mod which results in 2 negative credits. So he has Vryk sit out and Aiku sit out (= 4 PCs less, 2 Mods less). Rayne has no active PCs this week. Sorry Rayne. This results in Battousai AND Pitbull having no PC this week too (= 6 PCs less). Artismis was the mod who loses this fight (= 3 Mods less). He also gets 1 negative credit (there is no other fight to mod) but he doesn`t want that so he has Laucian Evior sit out (= 7 PCs less). Ethendril cannot mod too (=4 Mods less) Laucian Evior, Arstimis vs. Hadrigan Hillbuilder, Bishop the Bardican: Hatzinger This results in Bishop the Bardican losing a PC (= 8 PCs less) and Hatzinger to lose a fight to mod (= 5 Mods less). Hatzinger has PCs too who are now not able to fight: Oetzi, Hatzinger vs. Smushy, cellardweller: Caterane Caterane loses the fight he wanted to moderate (= 6 mods less) but as we remember: he doesnt want a neg.credit so he has the Harvester sit out too (= 9 PCs less). No fight and no PC for Cat. Cellardwellar has similar problems... which in turn give Jindl and Motherbast problems too Aku, Jindl vs. Lance, cellardweller: MotherBast ...and so on and so on. This was what I meant with a downward spiral. And this was only because one moderator (Cat) had one PC (Ixidor) sit out! Now imagine what happens if the other moderators do this!! And they HAVE TO because everyone who doesn`t remove one PC gets a negative credit! He cannot compensate with more moderating because there won`t be enough fights to moderate. There will be no arena anymore! I really can`t believe that you don`t see this, Mo.
Ethendril 03-05-04, 05:09 PM	Since I started here in December, I've only had one active gladiator and one fight each week. I ended up building up some credits and made an interesting character. I really like the unique builds in the arena. If the new system goes into effect, I see no reason for me to continue to mod. If I can have one character active (like I have in the past), and not mod a fight, why wouldn't I do that? I see no reason to work for no benefit. My plan was to build one more character, then have two gladiators and run one fight. But if the new system starts, I don't see any reason to do that. I would have to run an extra two fights, which I don't have the time or desire to do. -Ethendril
^Rayne^ 03-05-04, 05:09 PM	Cat I totally agree with your assessment of the situation and like you I'm not happy with this new method at all. It cripples the system rather than supports it. I really think this needs to get fixed either back to the old way or some new method that doesn't penalize a person who wants more than one PC for the arena battles. We are here to have fun but the way the system is being changed will only hurt everyone involved in the short and long run. Rayne
Arstimis 03-05-04, 05:33 PM	Very well put Cat. Since it seems obvious that we must put the system back in, which worked quite fine, I suggest a couple new things to add to it. Fights should be handed out differently. Step 1) Every mod does 1 fight. So mods that only play 1 character can build up 1 credit, mods that have 2 characters break even. Step 2) Fights are then given to people who need them because of the number of PC's Step 3) Fights are given to moderators who request them, because they want to gain credits. People should only get negative credits, for things they choose not to do; like not finishing the fight on time, or choosing not to moderate a fight, while having more than 1 character active. People should not get negative levels if they have no choice in the matter. Example: I decide i want to play with 3 active characters. The fights are being passed out using the above system. I get 1 fight from Step 1. As Step 2 is in progress the fights are passed out and there are none left for me. I end up having 3 active characters, but only modding 1 fight. Right now..even with the old system, i would get a negative credit, from something i didnt choose. If i take 1 character out, so i dont get that negative credit, the downward spiral, that Cat explained, starts. Do these two suggestions make sense?
Ethendril 03-05-04, 05:35 PM	I should also say that I don't think building up credits is the best way to get a high-level gladiator. If I earn one credit a week, I can add one level to my gladiator every three weeks. If I just have a gladiator fighting, I go up at least that often because of the bump rule. It just doesn't seem that things have been out of hand with the old system. There are only four gladiators that were created using credits. I find them all very interesting, but I think they will still be rare.
Moherajikuyx 03-05-04, 06:16 PM	OK then, that's fine, but we'll have to keep things under strict control in case a lot of new pcs arrive.
Caterane 03-05-04, 06:21 PM	So what? Let them come! We have more than enough moderators! I still don`t see your problem. If it`s about the roster workload, I`ll gladly take over; completely if need be. No problem. BTW: what makes you think just because of the upcomming link to the CO thread hundreds of people will flood in? We spent a full year there and only the few we now have participated.
Battousai2005 03-05-04, 10:16 PM	Originally posted by Moherajikuyx OK then, that's fine, but we'll have to keep things under strict control in case a lot of new pcs arrive. New PC's are a good thing. For moderators as well as not. That way it it possible for people like Cat with a lot of characters to keep more of those characters active. Also, while it is true that moderating a fight takes a lot of time (not from actual experience as i didn't get a fight this week :bigeyes: [which, btw, shows how this new credit system could me a problem]), but it allows moderators to get credits easier. Anyway, more PC's eventually means more moderators. Oh, almost forgot. Non mods get to see new characters in action. adds flavor, no?