SRD: Divine [Archive] - Wizards Community

SRD: Divine [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dawnlord
06-21-04, 09:59 AM I think this is stuff for the Elders but I just wanted to make this in public.

The SRD contains a section called DIVINE which includes some new feats, domains and (mostly domain-) spells.

As it's in the SRD (like Psionics) I think it would be a good idea to make this resources available for building as it's exanding options.

So:
I request a "Think-About-It" and if response is positive an official update of the CoCo general rules.

Please post your opinions.
barrel_master
06-21-04, 12:25 PM The divine section seems to be more geared towards deieties and such, I don't think it really fits for player characters.
Ethendril
06-21-04, 12:33 PM I justed checked it out. Barrel's right in that three out of the four sections are geared toward deities, not characters.

The applicable section would be the new domains and new spells. I looked at the domains, and most of them seem to be geared more toward RP type characters, and I didn't see much that seemed overpowered. There were a couple of cool spells, too.

I don't see anything wrong with it at first glance, but I didn't spend much time looking at it.
Battousai2005
06-21-04, 01:49 PM Hey, if we allows psionics, I think this should be allowed as well.
kattattack22
06-22-04, 12:11 AM I would really like to see someone use that Madness domian...

There is also some usuable feats in the Divine Feats most notably:

From Divine Feats and abilities

DIVINE MIGHT [DIVINE ]
Prerequisites: Str 13, turn or rebuke undead ability, Power Attack.
Benefit: As a free action, spend one of your turn or rebuke undead attempts to add your Charisma bonus to your weapon damage for 1 full round.

ENERGY SUBSTITUTION [METAMAGIC]
Prerequisites: Any other metamagic feat, Knowledge (arcana) 5 ranks.
Benefit: You choose one type of energy: acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic. When employing a spell with the acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic designator, you can modify the spell to use your chosen type of energy instead. The altered spell uses a spell slot of the spell’s normal level.
The altered spell works normally in all respects except the type of damage dealt.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Each time the feat applies to a different type of energy.

FLEET OF FOOT [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Dex 15, Run.
Benefit: When running or charging, you can make a single direction change of 90 degrees or less. You can’t use this feat while wearing medium or heavy armor, or when carrying a medium or heavy load. If you are charging, you must move in a straight line for 10 feet after the turn to maintain the charge.
Normal: Without this feat, you can run or charge only in a straight line.

HOLD THE LINE [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Combat Reflexes, base attack bonus +2.
Benefit: You may make an attack of opportunity against a chagin opponent who enters an atea you threaten. Your attack of opportunity happens immediately before the charge attack is resolved.
Normal: You only get an attack of opportunity against a character that exits a square you threaten.

KNOCK-DOWN [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +2, Improved Trip, Str 15.
Benefit: Whenever you deal 10 or more points of damage to your opponent in melee, you make a trip attack as a free action against the same target.

POWER CRITICAL [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Weapon focus (chosen weapon), base attack bonus +4
Benefit: When using the weapon you selected, you gain a +4 bonus on the roll to confirm a threat.
Special: A fighter may select Power Critical as one of his fighter bonus feats.
You can gain Power Critical multiple times. Each time you take the feat, it may be with a different weapon or the same weapon. If you take it with the same weapon, the effects of the feats stack.

REACH SPELL [METAMAGIC]
Benefit: You may cast a spell that normally has a range of touch at any distance up to 30 feet. The spell effectively becomes a ray, so you must succeed at a ranged touch attack to bestow the spell upon the recipient. A reach spell uses up a spell slot two levels higher than the spell’s actual level.

SACRED SPELL [METAMAGIC]
Benefit: Half of the damage dealt by a sacred spell results directly from divine power and is therefore not subject to being reduced by protection from elements or similar magic. The other half of the damage dealt by the spell is as normal. A sacred spell uses up a spell slot two levels higher than the spell’s actual level. Only divine spells can be cast as sacred spells.

SUPERIOR EXPERTISE [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise, base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: When you use the Combat Expertise feat to improve your Armor Class, the number you subtract from your attack and add to your AC can be any number that does not exceed your base attack bonus.
This feat eliminates the +5 maximum for the Combat Expertise feat.

Some of these could be very good and quite useful such as Divine Might to use those Turn Undead attempts, and others could be really bad like a monk/fighter/duelist with superior expertise (ouch). Anyway, I figured I would point a few that caught my eye.

I suggest a trial period and remove if too unbalancing.
Caterane
06-22-04, 06:59 PM I've looked over it and I am definately for allowing these feats. Those would bring another new wind into the arena, and I especially love to see Divine might to make Charisma more useful than it is now (in a RL campaign our gladiators'd fail every social interaction check with the charisma they have). And finally Turn undead becomes useful again, eh? So the weak weak cleric (compared to the overpowered druid) finally gets to use one of his main strengths (which is currently useless). Seriously, new and more options are always good to have.

This requires an Elders vote though. I'll open one as soon as I have my internet connection at home.

Still, I want to hear some more opinions from non-Elders; just to get a jist of the overall attitude.
freemoody
06-22-04, 08:11 PM I :love: the Divine feats.

But it does say that they're only for deitys. So I would feel kind of wierd using them.

But Lillith really wants them.

Edit:
IMO, Energy Substitution is horrible and should not be allowed.
Magagumo
06-22-04, 08:59 PM I have to agree with freemoody- most of these feats are from the old Sword and Fist suppliment, and a lot of them (like Energy Subsitution) are seriously overpowered (An archmage must work much harder to attain the same power...).

Judging from the fact that it says Deities may take these feats, I would say we should not be using them (Knockdown is another example of a stupidly overpowered feat, if applied correctly). The new Domains are intriguing,and the spells are unique as well, but I don't have the greatest feeling about some of these feats...
kattattack22
06-22-04, 09:17 PM Energy Substitution isn't overpowered in my opinion since it only works for one energy type so if you took Engery Substitution (fire) you could only substitute fire damage in for say cone of cold.

I think it would be helpful to mix it up so it would be harder for people to buff themselves with Resist Energy.

Knock-down has been errata'd so you couldn't attack/trip/attack all for one attack with Improved Trip, but it is a strong feat. But, then there aren't many fighters in the COCO anyway so maybe we'll see more of them with it.

I also agree with Cat about Divine Might.
amalcon
06-23-04, 12:20 AM yeah, the main thing energy substitution does in an arena setting is forces people to guess on their energy protections. IMO the main benefit of the archmage thing is you get to use it on the fly without increasing casting time, and you get to pick the energy type your opponent is least resistant to (i.e. if they're fire subtype you can pick cold). Sonic is a bit powerful in normal D&D, but for the most part arena characters with a decent (non-5) resistance got it from a flexible spell such as resist energy. The only thing in common use that it really hurts is polymorph to a subtype (i.e. take fire subtype for fire immunity), and polymorph is good enough without it (and a feat to get around one thing is hardly overpowered).

Edit: Though I would hate to see Repeat Spell show up...Oh well, give and take I guess

Edit #2: As for the domains, Artifice could potentially be very powerful, especially for a dipper. With 14 int, you can craft dc 20 items with only 2 points in a craft skill and master tools. It may not be long before two-weapon rangers routinely take one level of cleric for turning (access to divine power), artifice domain, and another domain power (War, Charm, Nobility, The list goes on)...
Jindl
06-24-04, 02:47 AM Since I am short on time, I'll keep this post short as well:

If the section has been updated to 3.5 and its part of the SRD, then I'll support it.

However, I know that only part of the Divine section of the SRD has been updated. The feats are current (comparing DotF to Complete Divine, especially Divine Might), but the domains and spells are not (it still uses the old Madness domain, not the new one from Complete Divine).

So for now, I would hold off on this until they {WoTC} get the SRD corrected.

(Oh, and I played a cleric of Boccob with the Madness domain from DotF in RttTEE, and DC36 Phantasmal Killers are devastating!!)

-Jindl

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dawnlord 06-21-04, 09:59 AM	I think this is stuff for the Elders but I just wanted to make this in public. The SRD contains a section called DIVINE which includes some new feats, domains and (mostly domain-) spells. As it's in the SRD (like Psionics) I think it would be a good idea to make this resources available for building as it's exanding options. So: I request a "Think-About-It" and if response is positive an official update of the CoCo general rules. Please post your opinions.
barrel_master 06-21-04, 12:25 PM	The divine section seems to be more geared towards deieties and such, I don't think it really fits for player characters.
Ethendril 06-21-04, 12:33 PM	I justed checked it out. Barrel's right in that three out of the four sections are geared toward deities, not characters. The applicable section would be the new domains and new spells. I looked at the domains, and most of them seem to be geared more toward RP type characters, and I didn't see much that seemed overpowered. There were a couple of cool spells, too. I don't see anything wrong with it at first glance, but I didn't spend much time looking at it.
Battousai2005 06-21-04, 01:49 PM	Hey, if we allows psionics, I think this should be allowed as well.
kattattack22 06-22-04, 12:11 AM	I would really like to see someone use that Madness domian... There is also some usuable feats in the Divine Feats most notably: From Divine Feats and abilities DIVINE MIGHT [DIVINE ] Prerequisites: Str 13, turn or rebuke undead ability, Power Attack. Benefit: As a free action, spend one of your turn or rebuke undead attempts to add your Charisma bonus to your weapon damage for 1 full round. ENERGY SUBSTITUTION [METAMAGIC] Prerequisites: Any other metamagic feat, Knowledge (arcana) 5 ranks. Benefit: You choose one type of energy: acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic. When employing a spell with the acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic designator, you can modify the spell to use your chosen type of energy instead. The altered spell uses a spell slot of the spell’s normal level. The altered spell works normally in all respects except the type of damage dealt. Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Each time the feat applies to a different type of energy. FLEET OF FOOT [GENERAL] Prerequisites: Dex 15, Run. Benefit: When running or charging, you can make a single direction change of 90 degrees or less. You can’t use this feat while wearing medium or heavy armor, or when carrying a medium or heavy load. If you are charging, you must move in a straight line for 10 feet after the turn to maintain the charge. Normal: Without this feat, you can run or charge only in a straight line. HOLD THE LINE [GENERAL] Prerequisites: Combat Reflexes, base attack bonus +2. Benefit: You may make an attack of opportunity against a chagin opponent who enters an atea you threaten. Your attack of opportunity happens immediately before the charge attack is resolved. Normal: You only get an attack of opportunity against a character that exits a square you threaten. KNOCK-DOWN [GENERAL] Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +2, Improved Trip, Str 15. Benefit: Whenever you deal 10 or more points of damage to your opponent in melee, you make a trip attack as a free action against the same target. POWER CRITICAL [GENERAL] Prerequisites: Weapon focus (chosen weapon), base attack bonus +4 Benefit: When using the weapon you selected, you gain a +4 bonus on the roll to confirm a threat. Special: A fighter may select Power Critical as one of his fighter bonus feats. You can gain Power Critical multiple times. Each time you take the feat, it may be with a different weapon or the same weapon. If you take it with the same weapon, the effects of the feats stack. REACH SPELL [METAMAGIC] Benefit: You may cast a spell that normally has a range of touch at any distance up to 30 feet. The spell effectively becomes a ray, so you must succeed at a ranged touch attack to bestow the spell upon the recipient. A reach spell uses up a spell slot two levels higher than the spell’s actual level. SACRED SPELL [METAMAGIC] Benefit: Half of the damage dealt by a sacred spell results directly from divine power and is therefore not subject to being reduced by protection from elements or similar magic. The other half of the damage dealt by the spell is as normal. A sacred spell uses up a spell slot two levels higher than the spell’s actual level. Only divine spells can be cast as sacred spells. SUPERIOR EXPERTISE [GENERAL] Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise, base attack bonus +6. Benefit: When you use the Combat Expertise feat to improve your Armor Class, the number you subtract from your attack and add to your AC can be any number that does not exceed your base attack bonus. This feat eliminates the +5 maximum for the Combat Expertise feat. Some of these could be very good and quite useful such as Divine Might to use those Turn Undead attempts, and others could be really bad like a monk/fighter/duelist with superior expertise (ouch). Anyway, I figured I would point a few that caught my eye. I suggest a trial period and remove if too unbalancing.
Caterane 06-22-04, 06:59 PM	I've looked over it and I am definately for allowing these feats. Those would bring another new wind into the arena, and I especially love to see Divine might to make Charisma more useful than it is now (in a RL campaign our gladiators'd fail every social interaction check with the charisma they have). And finally Turn undead becomes useful again, eh? So the weak weak cleric (compared to the overpowered druid) finally gets to use one of his main strengths (which is currently useless). Seriously, new and more options are always good to have. This requires an Elders vote though. I'll open one as soon as I have my internet connection at home. Still, I want to hear some more opinions from non-Elders; just to get a jist of the overall attitude.
freemoody 06-22-04, 08:11 PM	I :love: the Divine feats. But it does say that they're only for deitys. So I would feel kind of wierd using them. But Lillith really wants them. Edit: IMO, Energy Substitution is horrible and should not be allowed.
Magagumo 06-22-04, 08:59 PM	I have to agree with freemoody- most of these feats are from the old Sword and Fist suppliment, and a lot of them (like Energy Subsitution) are seriously overpowered (An archmage must work much harder to attain the same power...). Judging from the fact that it says Deities may take these feats, I would say we should not be using them (Knockdown is another example of a stupidly overpowered feat, if applied correctly). The new Domains are intriguing,and the spells are unique as well, but I don't have the greatest feeling about some of these feats...
kattattack22 06-22-04, 09:17 PM	Energy Substitution isn't overpowered in my opinion since it only works for one energy type so if you took Engery Substitution (fire) you could only substitute fire damage in for say cone of cold. I think it would be helpful to mix it up so it would be harder for people to buff themselves with Resist Energy. Knock-down has been errata'd so you couldn't attack/trip/attack all for one attack with Improved Trip, but it is a strong feat. But, then there aren't many fighters in the COCO anyway so maybe we'll see more of them with it. I also agree with Cat about Divine Might.
amalcon 06-23-04, 12:20 AM	yeah, the main thing energy substitution does in an arena setting is forces people to guess on their energy protections. IMO the main benefit of the archmage thing is you get to use it on the fly without increasing casting time, and you get to pick the energy type your opponent is least resistant to (i.e. if they're fire subtype you can pick cold). Sonic is a bit powerful in normal D&D, but for the most part arena characters with a decent (non-5) resistance got it from a flexible spell such as resist energy. The only thing in common use that it really hurts is polymorph to a subtype (i.e. take fire subtype for fire immunity), and polymorph is good enough without it (and a feat to get around one thing is hardly overpowered). Edit: Though I would hate to see Repeat Spell show up...Oh well, give and take I guess Edit #2: As for the domains, Artifice could potentially be very powerful, especially for a dipper. With 14 int, you can craft dc 20 items with only 2 points in a craft skill and master tools. It may not be long before two-weapon rangers routinely take one level of cleric for turning (access to divine power), artifice domain, and another domain power (War, Charm, Nobility, The list goes on)...
Jindl 06-24-04, 02:47 AM	Since I am short on time, I'll keep this post short as well: If the section has been updated to 3.5 and its part of the SRD, then I'll support it. However, I know that only part of the Divine section of the SRD has been updated. The feats are current (comparing DotF to Complete Divine, especially Divine Might), but the domains and spells are not (it still uses the old Madness domain, not the new one from Complete Divine). So for now, I would hold off on this until they {WoTC} get the SRD corrected. (Oh, and I played a cleric of Boccob with the Madness domain from DotF in RttTEE, and DC36 Phantasmal Killers are devastating!!) -Jindl