The Council of Elders [Archive] - Wizards Community

The Council of Elders [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Caterane
06-09-05, 06:48 AM The Council of Elders
http://www.caterane.de/CoCo/Struktur/Council.jpg
This thread is for Council Elders only!

This is the Council of Elders. Here, the Elders decide on rules questions that are not clear from the rules as written, and could be interpreted in several ways. The functions of the CoCo game system is decided by the Game Master, although the opinion of the Council is welcomed.

To the Elders: Please take up one and only one post which you edit. Perhaps even take on your own color. Then save this thread under 'favorites' because it will vanish over time due to no new posts coming up.

The Elders
Cellardweller
Jindl
LLMadCow
Pittbull
Sindorin

Council Rules •The polls: The next post contains all polls. A poll will be opened as long as there is one Council Elder's voice missing (exception: if a poll has already 4 voices in favor of one side then it may be considered 'closed' and the rule enacted but will stay open until everyone has voted). Polls are opened by the GM. Any citizen of the Core Coliseum (Elder or not) may suggest a new poll; the GM will add it to the list if there seems to be significant support for the idea.
•Voices: Every Council Elder has one voice which he assigns to one of the options. If there is still no decision once every Elder has voted, the GM adds his voice and decides.
•Attitude: Most of the times polls will be voted as 'Yes', 'No', or 'Abstain'. Please put one of these words at the beginning of your vote. You may explain the reason behind this in a short description (optional). In some cases the voices is required to be more specific (example: "Do you want a green, red or blue background") in which case the various voice options will by included in the poll question (e.g. "Green", "Red", "Blue")
•Discussion: This board is for the votes only. Post only once and edit your thread. Discussion are held in the Elders Forum. Just follow the portal.
•Decision: A poll is enacted as soon as a simple majority is reached. As soon as 4 Council Elders vote in favor of one side (absolute majority) the poll is enacted, no matter if there are still votes missing. In case of a split vote, the vote of the GM (Caterane) will decide.
•Deadline: Each topic will be debated for a period not to exceed two weeks. Topics may be closed early if an early heavy majority is shown. Any Elder's voice not put to vote within two weeks is considered to have abstained. The default poll time is two weeks, but it may be prolonged if difficult and/or decisions with severe consequences are to be made.
•Overview: Please post your votes so that they are easily recognizable. Delete your vote from your post once the issue has been resolved.
•Decision Reached: Once a decision has been reached, the GM will make a public announcement in the tavern to inform the rest of the board.

Portals to the old senate thread and the previous Elders Forum and the Discussion Forum are included for your perusal.

Previous Elders Forum (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=299338)
Old Council Thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=367456)
Old Senate Thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=236361)
http://www.caterane.de/CoCo/Struktur/Portal-red.gif (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=5425014#post5425014) http://www.caterane.de/CoCo/Struktur/Pfeil2.gifPortal to Elder Discussion Forum
Pitlords
06-09-05, 06:53 AM This is a list with all resolved issues. They can also be found in the FAQ: Council decisions.

Item: Eversmoking Bottle
Decision: It produces real smoke with its harmful effects

Item: Figurine of wondrous power equipable?
Decision: No, it cannot be equipped before an arena begins.

Miscellaneous: Crafting and Caster levels
Decision: The Caster level is no prerequisite when crafting magic items.

Miscellaneous: Grappling while mounted
Decision: If you grapple someone who is mounted, you join him on the mount, or - if the mount cannot carry both of you - you are grappling your opponoment adjectent to it (the mount gets an AoO unless the attacker has the Improved Grapple feat). If the mount decides to move, the rider falls off unless he wins an opposed grapple check against the attacker in which case he drags him along.

Skills/Feats: Hide
Decision: The sneaker is auto-spotted if he has no cover or concealment anymore, and is more than 1 foot per rank away from a cover or concealment.

Spell/Effect: Blacklight
Decision: It grants total concealment

Spell/Effect: Fascinate
Decision: Fascinate cannot be used at all in the arena. For the purpose of Quests and Campaigns, combat is defined as "Initiative has been rolled".

Spell/Effect: Gate
Decision: This spell is banned in all its forms.

Spell/Effect: Maze
Decision: Leave it as it is.
Pitlords
06-09-05, 06:54 AM In this section, you will find all issues that the Elders are currently voting on. They will be deleted once a decision has been reached. The maximum time such an issue is up is two weeks. If, by that time, there is no clear winner, or the Elder participation is less than 4 Elders, the GM vote will decide. If a decision has been reached earlier by an absolute majority, the issue is resolved.

Elders are asked to delete their vote from their post once the issue has been resolved and added to the list above. This is to keep the Council clean.
Caterane
06-09-05, 01:12 PM Reserved for GM voice in case of a split vote
Jindl
06-09-05, 01:18 PM Jindl, the Eldest of the Elders, takes a seat.

(@Cat - I am 6 months and 1 day older than LLMadCow.)

Re: Fascinate - I believe choice #3 is truest to the RAW.
Sindorin
06-09-05, 02:15 PM Issue: The Fascinate Ability

Fascinate can only be used if there has been no combat at all from the beginning on until now. Once a single attack has been made that the target was aware of, the fascinate ability cannot be used.
Pittbull
06-09-05, 05:01 PM :thinks:
LLMadCow
06-10-05, 12:52 AM Previously on LLMadCow's Post:

I just want to take a moment to say just how very proud I am that Caterane managed to close threads and open new ones without any badgering! The first Core Coliseum Tavern was pretty close to 6000, and I had been pestering him, since post #4000, about server loads and balancing issues and the strain on the Wizards.Community boards, etc, etc. To think that CCT2 shut down prior to the 3K mark amazes me! Way to go Cat!

:cheer: :dancin: :cheer:

Shortly thereafter followed by:

@MadCow: I have to disappoint you; WizO Shadow told me to open a new one.

And Todays Episode Of Maddness:

:banghead:

Fascinate
My vote goes for a modified #3. I will have to call it 3a.

Fascinate cannot be used at all in the arena. For the purpose of Quests and Campaigns, Fascinate cannot be used on a creature who has rolled for their Initiative; combat occurring within 90' of the Fascinated creature negates the ability.

This change is compared to:

Fascinate cannot be used at all in the arena. For the purpose of Quests and Campaigns, combat is defined as "Initiative has been rolled".

I propose the change to clarify that some people may be taking combative actions outside of the 90' range of the Fascinate ability and, therefore, should not be a factor in the use of the ability.
cellardweller
06-13-05, 12:52 AM It is not just fascination that needs to be looked at - how suggestion has been handled is incorrect too.

This is bardic fascination/suggestion as I read it.
Step 1 Fascinate
The bard attempts to fascinate. If target(s) can see/hear must make a will save at a DC of the performance check. If there is nearby combat or overt threats present the attempt fails. This condition is based on what is actually present, not on events that may have happened "recently".

Step 2 Suggestion
The bard attempts to make a suggestion.The target must make a will save at DC 10+chr+brd/2 or be affected as per the suggestion spell (which has a duration of 1hr/level). They are still fascinated so they can't begin to carry out the activity yet.

Step 3
The bard stops singing to end the fascination and the target (if they failed the save) can now carry out the activity and continue to do so until either the task is complete or the duration expires.

It has to be "combat occuring now", not "combat recently" as there is no definable expiry point for the recently clause. For example if a bard attacked you yesterday, could he fascinate you today?

There is no dnd definition of combat, so we are left with the dictionary definition.

Combat
n. Fighting, especially armed battle; strife.
Fighting
v. intr.
1. a.To attempt to harm or gain power over an adversary by blows or with weapons.
b.Sports. To engage in boxing or wrestling.
2. To engage in a quarrel; argue: They are always fighting about money.
3. To strive vigorously and resolutely: fought against graft; fighting for her rights.

Using these definitions would lead to combat being defined as anything that breaks the invisiblity test.
Enterik
09-28-05, 03:10 PM Oops, didn't read the no posting sign as I was following a link from the what is core section of the rules :embarrass

My question: What is the mechanism to determine awareness of caltrops spread upon the arena floor?
Sindorin
09-28-05, 04:23 PM Hahaha it still says I am an Elder!
Huan
09-29-05, 09:23 AM The youngest Elder takes a seat here.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Caterane 06-09-05, 06:48 AM	The Council of Elders http://www.caterane.de/CoCo/Struktur/Council.jpg This thread is for Council Elders only! This is the Council of Elders. Here, the Elders decide on rules questions that are not clear from the rules as written, and could be interpreted in several ways. The functions of the CoCo game system is decided by the Game Master, although the opinion of the Council is welcomed. To the Elders: Please take up one and only one post which you edit. Perhaps even take on your own color. Then save this thread under 'favorites' because it will vanish over time due to no new posts coming up. The Elders Cellardweller Jindl LLMadCow Pittbull Sindorin Council Rules •The polls: The next post contains all polls. A poll will be opened as long as there is one Council Elder's voice missing (exception: if a poll has already 4 voices in favor of one side then it may be considered 'closed' and the rule enacted but will stay open until everyone has voted). Polls are opened by the GM. Any citizen of the Core Coliseum (Elder or not) may suggest a new poll; the GM will add it to the list if there seems to be significant support for the idea. •Voices: Every Council Elder has one voice which he assigns to one of the options. If there is still no decision once every Elder has voted, the GM adds his voice and decides. •Attitude: Most of the times polls will be voted as 'Yes', 'No', or 'Abstain'. Please put one of these words at the beginning of your vote. You may explain the reason behind this in a short description (optional). In some cases the voices is required to be more specific (example: "Do you want a green, red or blue background") in which case the various voice options will by included in the poll question (e.g. "Green", "Red", "Blue") •Discussion: This board is for the votes only. Post only once and edit your thread. Discussion are held in the Elders Forum. Just follow the portal. •Decision: A poll is enacted as soon as a simple majority is reached. As soon as 4 Council Elders vote in favor of one side (absolute majority) the poll is enacted, no matter if there are still votes missing. In case of a split vote, the vote of the GM (Caterane) will decide. •Deadline: Each topic will be debated for a period not to exceed two weeks. Topics may be closed early if an early heavy majority is shown. Any Elder's voice not put to vote within two weeks is considered to have abstained. The default poll time is two weeks, but it may be prolonged if difficult and/or decisions with severe consequences are to be made. •Overview: Please post your votes so that they are easily recognizable. Delete your vote from your post once the issue has been resolved. •Decision Reached: Once a decision has been reached, the GM will make a public announcement in the tavern to inform the rest of the board. Portals to the old senate thread and the previous Elders Forum and the Discussion Forum are included for your perusal. Previous Elders Forum (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=299338) Old Council Thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=367456) Old Senate Thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=236361) http://www.caterane.de/CoCo/Struktur/Portal-red.gif (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=5425014#post5425014) http://www.caterane.de/CoCo/Struktur/Pfeil2.gifPortal to Elder Discussion Forum
Pitlords 06-09-05, 06:53 AM	This is a list with all resolved issues. They can also be found in the FAQ: Council decisions. Item: Eversmoking Bottle Decision: It produces real smoke with its harmful effects Item: Figurine of wondrous power equipable? Decision: No, it cannot be equipped before an arena begins. Miscellaneous: Crafting and Caster levels Decision: The Caster level is no prerequisite when crafting magic items. Miscellaneous: Grappling while mounted Decision: If you grapple someone who is mounted, you join him on the mount, or - if the mount cannot carry both of you - you are grappling your opponoment adjectent to it (the mount gets an AoO unless the attacker has the Improved Grapple feat). If the mount decides to move, the rider falls off unless he wins an opposed grapple check against the attacker in which case he drags him along. Skills/Feats: Hide Decision: The sneaker is auto-spotted if he has no cover or concealment anymore, and is more than 1 foot per rank away from a cover or concealment. Spell/Effect: Blacklight Decision: It grants total concealment Spell/Effect: Fascinate Decision: Fascinate cannot be used at all in the arena. For the purpose of Quests and Campaigns, combat is defined as "Initiative has been rolled". Spell/Effect: Gate Decision: This spell is banned in all its forms. Spell/Effect: Maze Decision: Leave it as it is.
Pitlords 06-09-05, 06:54 AM	In this section, you will find all issues that the Elders are currently voting on. They will be deleted once a decision has been reached. The maximum time such an issue is up is two weeks. If, by that time, there is no clear winner, or the Elder participation is less than 4 Elders, the GM vote will decide. If a decision has been reached earlier by an absolute majority, the issue is resolved. Elders are asked to delete their vote from their post once the issue has been resolved and added to the list above. This is to keep the Council clean.
Caterane 06-09-05, 01:12 PM	Reserved for GM voice in case of a split vote
Jindl 06-09-05, 01:18 PM	Jindl, the Eldest of the Elders, takes a seat. (@Cat - I am 6 months and 1 day older than LLMadCow.) Re: Fascinate - I believe choice #3 is truest to the RAW.
Sindorin 06-09-05, 02:15 PM	Issue: The Fascinate Ability Fascinate can only be used if there has been no combat at all from the beginning on until now. Once a single attack has been made that the target was aware of, the fascinate ability cannot be used.
Pittbull 06-09-05, 05:01 PM	:thinks:
LLMadCow 06-10-05, 12:52 AM	Previously on LLMadCow's Post: I just want to take a moment to say just how very proud I am that Caterane managed to close threads and open new ones without any badgering! The first Core Coliseum Tavern was pretty close to 6000, and I had been pestering him, since post #4000, about server loads and balancing issues and the strain on the Wizards.Community boards, etc, etc. To think that CCT2 shut down prior to the 3K mark amazes me! Way to go Cat! :cheer: :dancin: :cheer: Shortly thereafter followed by: @MadCow: I have to disappoint you; WizO Shadow told me to open a new one. And Todays Episode Of Maddness: :banghead: Fascinate My vote goes for a modified #3. I will have to call it 3a. Fascinate cannot be used at all in the arena. For the purpose of Quests and Campaigns, Fascinate cannot be used on a creature who has rolled for their Initiative; combat occurring within 90' of the Fascinated creature negates the ability. This change is compared to: Fascinate cannot be used at all in the arena. For the purpose of Quests and Campaigns, combat is defined as "Initiative has been rolled". I propose the change to clarify that some people may be taking combative actions outside of the 90' range of the Fascinate ability and, therefore, should not be a factor in the use of the ability.
cellardweller 06-13-05, 12:52 AM	It is not just fascination that needs to be looked at - how suggestion has been handled is incorrect too. This is bardic fascination/suggestion as I read it. Step 1 Fascinate The bard attempts to fascinate. If target(s) can see/hear must make a will save at a DC of the performance check. If there is nearby combat or overt threats present the attempt fails. This condition is based on what is actually present, not on events that may have happened "recently". Step 2 Suggestion The bard attempts to make a suggestion.The target must make a will save at DC 10+chr+brd/2 or be affected as per the suggestion spell (which has a duration of 1hr/level). They are still fascinated so they can't begin to carry out the activity yet. Step 3 The bard stops singing to end the fascination and the target (if they failed the save) can now carry out the activity and continue to do so until either the task is complete or the duration expires. It has to be "combat occuring now", not "combat recently" as there is no definable expiry point for the recently clause. For example if a bard attacked you yesterday, could he fascinate you today? There is no dnd definition of combat, so we are left with the dictionary definition. Combat n. Fighting, especially armed battle; strife. Fighting v. intr. 1. a.To attempt to harm or gain power over an adversary by blows or with weapons. b.Sports. To engage in boxing or wrestling. 2. To engage in a quarrel; argue: They are always fighting about money. 3. To strive vigorously and resolutely: fought against graft; fighting for her rights. Using these definitions would lead to combat being defined as anything that breaks the invisiblity test.
Enterik 09-28-05, 03:10 PM	Oops, didn't read the no posting sign as I was following a link from the what is core section of the rules :embarrass My question: What is the mechanism to determine awareness of caltrops spread upon the arena floor?
Sindorin 09-28-05, 04:23 PM	Hahaha it still says I am an Elder!
Huan 09-29-05, 09:23 AM	The youngest Elder takes a seat here.