Post/Author/DateTime	Post
barrel_master 09-02-04, 02:27 PM	I've been wondering if I should employ 'cheap' tactics... my Octavian has been loosing a lot lately and I'd just like to know your opinion. Suggestions on how to win 'in a more fair' manner are also welcome. Name: Octavian Cesar Gender: Male Race: Human Class: Sorcerer 11 Alignment: Neutral Good Str 8 -1 (pts 0) Dex 18 +4 (pts 6, enhancement 4) Con 16 +3 (pts 10) Int 10 +0 (pts 2) Wis 10 +0 (pts 2) Cha 26 +8 (pts 16, lvl +2, enhancement 6) Hit Points: 62 (11d4 + 11*3) AC: 14 (base 10, dex 4), Touch: 14, Flat: 10 Init: +8 (dex 4, improved init 4) BAB: +5, Grap: +4 (str -1) Speed: 30 (base 30) Saves: Fort: +6 (sor 3, con 3) Ref: +7 (sor 3, dex 4) Will: +7 (sor 7, wis 0) Combat: +0 Melee, Greataxe, 1d12-1, 20/x3 +4 Melee, Sickle, 1d6-1, 20/x2 +9 Ranged, Light crossbow, 1d8+0, 19-20/x2, 30'r Medium, 5'8" tall, 160 wt, 17 yrs old Black hair, Brown eyes, dark skin Languages: Common Skills = (2+1)*4 + 10*(2+1) = 42 +17 Concentration (ranks 14, con 3) +19 Spellcraft (ranks 14, int 0, +2 synergy knowlage, +3 feat) +14 Knowledge (arcana) (ranks 14, int 0) +5 Spot (0, hawk +3, alertness(hawk) +2) +2 Listen (0, altertness(hawk) +2) Feats: Hum - Improved initiative 1 - Spell focus conj. 3 - Empower spell 6 - Spell focus evoc. 9 - Skill focus (spellcraft) Human Traits: -Human base land speed is 30 feet. -1 extra feat at 1st level. -4 extra skill points at 1st level and 1 extra skill point at each additional level. Sorcerer Abilities: -Sorcerers are proficient with all simple weapons. They are not proficient with any type of armor or shield. Armor of any type interferes with a sorceror’s gestures, which can cause his spells with somatic components to fail. Spells: Per Day 6/6+2/6+2/6+2/6+2/4+1 (+ability score) 0th: Acid Splash, Detect Magic, Flare, Read Magic, Resistance, Ghost Sound, ?, ?, ? 1st: Feather fall, Grease, Mage Armor, Magic Missle, Shield 2nd: Alter self, Bear's Endurance, Glitterdust, Mirror Image, Touch of Idiocy 3rd: Dispel magic, Fireball, Fly, Protection from Energy 4th: Enervation, Greater Invisibility, Polymorph 5th: Telekinesis, Teleport
Tellish_of_Ket 09-02-04, 03:03 PM	Save every penny you can and get a meta-magik wand of quickening. Boots of speed too. Activate boots, move 60' and quicken-fireball/empower fireball your opponent. 30d6 dmg to start the match can't hurt your side of the outcome. Or quickened teleport and empowered-enervation, then quicken-enervate/empowered-enervate him once more. Both of those suggestions are potential fight enders. Also you can replace touch of idiocy and alter self with something more meaningful like resist energy and maybe rope trick. May substitute protection vs energy with displacement. And sub greater invis with either shadow conj, ice storm, p.k., otilukes, solid fog. Also, if you were thinking of starting a new sorc and you're not gonna be a summoner, get rid of focus:conj and skill focus. Instead take scribe scroll, and quicken. At 12th take craft rod and make rods of empower and quicken. Again, these are just suggestions though. -ToK
Druid Roxors 09-02-04, 03:09 PM	TOK: Sorcerers cannot use Quicken spell. Not even in Rod-Form.
Kazzaroth Pan'theon 09-02-04, 03:15 PM	Well, you need take skill focus spellcraft when you plan become a archamge, so I quess he needs it because of that :P. Recomend to take Black Tentacles because in that point 19 strength grappling vs mounts and its riders is good way hold your foe still while you pepper it whit spells ;). Alter self can be uselfull, but in higher levels it becomes less uslefull, so you should had not taken it at all and chosed something else. Alos by having spell focus: conjuration, a strange reaosn you had not taken the feat wich improves summoned creatures strength and stamina and had taken summon monster spells. Summon monster spells are uselfull even high level as cannon fobber y'know :D. These were my cents....
Jindl 09-02-04, 03:15 PM	Sorceror's should take Leadership to take advantage of their high Cha's. -Jindl
Tellish_of_Ket 09-02-04, 04:10 PM	TOK: Sorcerers cannot use Quicken spell. Not even in Rod-Form. Really? I had no idea. Why not? It's activated from the rod, why can't they? -ToK
Jindl 09-02-04, 04:29 PM	Really? I had no idea. Why not? It's activated from the rod, why can't they? -ToK The only reason I can give, is that it says so under the Metamagic Rods section. In my campaign, I houseruled it to allow Sorc's to use quicken spell. I mean, it costs you a high level spell slot, so its already balanced. -Jindl
Druid Roxors 09-02-04, 04:34 PM	Possession of a metamagic rod does not confer the associated feat on the owner, only the ability to use the given feat a specified number of times per day. A sorcerer still must take a full-round action when using a metamagic rod, just as if using a metamagic feat he possesses.For some reason the new boards require that I write some text. Eventhough the quoted text is not your post... Anyways. I Have to extend this message and I have. :P
kattattack22 09-02-04, 04:37 PM	Save up for Daerun's Instant Fortress. Teleport above enemy, activate. A big tower made of admantine dropping on an enemy, you do the math.
Caterane 09-02-04, 04:55 PM	@Tok: You cannot react after teleport, so no empowered eneveration. Enlarged empowered might do the trick though. Thank god I play clerics :) @katt: Oh please, no more droppings :( @Barrel: The best thing for a sorcerer will be energy substitution. And speaking of such, when are we going to allow the new SRD stuff? Divine might and Persistant spell might are the most interesting ones; and I'd love to take Persistant at lvl 18.
Magagumo 09-02-04, 05:08 PM	yea.. see, Persistant is why I don't trust the SRD.... That's a bloody Faerun spell.. and trust me, Snark has taught me to fear the prospect of Persistant Divine Favor, or a Persistant Righetous Might (Complete Divine allows one the feat to spend turning attempts to metamagic spells w/o changing level.. you get the picture).
Ashenai 09-02-04, 05:25 PM	I'm a little hesitant about Persistent Spell myself, actually. I don't think it's balanced with 1 round/level spells. Hmm.
Druid Roxors 09-02-04, 05:34 PM	Remember, Persistant spell is now +6 to level not +4. Which is more or less balanced. Within the SRD there is no feat that lets you substitute turning attempts for spell levels so that is out. No Persistant Divine Power/Might/Poly/Etc
Caterane 09-02-04, 08:11 PM	Persistant divine favor is 7th level, come on what's unbalanced here? Quickened divine favor (5th level) is up in the same time. It lasts only 1 min but you activate it when you enter melee anyway and at that level there is no fight that lasts more than 1 minute. But speaking of build improbements, I'm planning a new Archangel (halfcelestial). There must be a way to get a good build out of them.
kattattack22 09-03-04, 12:53 AM	Persistant divine favor is 7th level, come on what's unbalanced here? Quickened divine favor (5th level) is up in the same time. It lasts only 1 min but you activate it when you enter melee anyway and at that level there is no fight that lasts more than 1 minute. But speaking of build improbements, I'm planning a new Archangel (halfcelestial). There must be a way to get a good build out of them. half-celestial/half-halfling Bard/Eldritch Knight half-celestial/half-pixie bard or sorcerer I don't know. I could just be tired and seem like a good idea now...
Tellish_of_Ket 09-03-04, 09:17 AM	The only reason I can give, is that it says so under the Metamagic Rods section. In my campaign, I houseruled it to allow Sorc's to use quicken spell. I mean, it costs you a high level spell slot, so its already balanced. -Jindl Wow, i just re-read that. LAME! Talk about totally killing a class. @Tok: You cannot react after teleport, so no empowered eneveration. Enlarged empowered might do the trick though. Thank god I play clerics :) Teleport doesn't have the same restrictions as DimDoor. AFAIK you can act after teleport. I just re-read it and unless i missed something, you can act. It's possible i missed something in the fine print. But at the level he cast teleport he may as well just get the Phantom Steed and do the same thing. -ToK
Druid Roxors 09-03-04, 10:10 AM	Wow, i just re-read that. LAME! Talk about totally killing a class.Yep :( Teleport doesn't have the same restrictions as DimDoor. AFAIK you can act after teleport. I just re-read it and unless i missed something, you can act. It's possible i missed something in the fine print. But at the level he cast teleport he may as well just get the Phantom Steed and do the same thing. -ToKYeah, that is correct.
Ashenai 09-03-04, 10:13 AM	Wow, i just re-read that. LAME! Talk about totally killing a class. Teleport doesn't have the same restrictions as DimDoor. AFAIK you can act after teleport. I just re-read it and unless i missed something, you can act. It's possible i missed something in the fine print. But at the level he cast teleport he may as well just get the Phantom Steed and do the same thing. -ToK Just one quick note re: Phantom Steed: it's a creature, which means if you want to start mounted on a (pre-buffed) Phantom Steed, you cannot bring any other creatures (familiars, cohorts, etc). I've seen pitlords ignore (or not realize) this limitation.
Magagumo 09-03-04, 11:48 AM	True, though I would prefer seeing Phantom Steed join gate on the banned spell list- it is simply too powerful in this setting, where the caster has infinite time to cast it (10 min casting time!) and the poor melee-based character is never able to catch up. (One day, Crest will have a move speed of 80', and she would still be devestated by the Steed)
Tellish_of_Ket 09-03-04, 11:51 AM	True, though I would prefer seeing Phantom Steed join gate on the banned spell list- it is simply too powerful in this setting, where the caster has infinite time to cast it (10 min casting time!) and the poor melee-based character is never able to catch up. (One day, Crest will have a move speed of 80', and she would still be devestated by the Steed) Well Mag, you can always introduce it as a topic to be discussed by the Elders now. :D -ToK
Caterane 09-03-04, 12:41 PM	True, though I would prefer seeing Phantom Steed join gate on the banned spell list- it is simply too powerful in this setting, where the caster has infinite time to cast it (10 min casting time!) and the poor melee-based character is never able to catch up. (One day, Crest will have a move speed of 80', and she would still be devestated by the Steed) Mag, the beast has 20 hp. A simple fireball or ANY other damage spell destroys it. Or dispel magic (no ring to protect it), or arrows, whatever. This spell is ok. It's quick, but it's also dead very quickly. I'm pretty sure the Professor would be better off if he'd borrow 160 hp Crimson Sunrise from the Harvester (which has a speed of 150, flies, immune to a dozen things, and can attack). If you have trouble with the win ini scenario (via Phantom steed or Time stop later) then support me with the random starting positions thing where one doesn't know where the opponoment is.
Tellish_of_Ket 09-03-04, 12:55 PM	Mag, the beast has 20 hp. A simple fireball or ANY other damage spell destroys it. Or dispel magic (no ring to protect it), or arrows, whatever. This spell is ok. It's quick, but it's also dead very quickly. I'm pretty sure the Professor would be better off if he'd borrow 160 hp Crimson Sunrise from the Harvester (which has a speed of 150, flies, immune to a dozen things, and can attack). If you have trouble with the win ini scenario (via Phantom steed or Time stop later) then support me with the random starting positions thing where one doesn't know where the opponoment is. There have been mutliple Crimson Sunrise deaths, and as of yet not a single phantom steed as perished. -ToK
Ashenai 09-03-04, 01:11 PM	I do not want to see Phantom Steed banned, for a number of reasons. First of all, let's not get trigger happy. Once we just start banning the best spells in the format (as opposed to spells that are truly broken), we will never stop. There are always spells a cut above the rest. Secondly, a mage in a real campaign also has plenty of time to cast Phantom Steed, since he will be casting it at the beginning of the day. Just like in the Coliseum. The difference between Phantom Steed and Gate is that there are very effective tactics to deal with Phantom Steed. It's fragile. Yes, it can be very nasty when used competently, but it's not invulnerable, and it certainly won't win you the battle on its own. There's nothing you can do about a Gated creature with a CR that is 5 higher than yours, though. Incidentally, GMs: The take 10 scheme is opposed by every Elder except Ethendril, and every player who took part in the discussion was also against it. Are you sure you won't reconsider? Who, exactly, do you want to make pitlording fights easier for? If it's for the benefit of the newbies, note that there was a newbie who joined the discussion (Zerone), and he also didn't like it.
Magagumo 09-03-04, 01:16 PM	Well, I suppose my main point re: the steed is that the saving throws has never cleared up... As a creature, it should have its own throws, not using its master 's (often superior-amazing) saves. It has no HD at the same time, which throws me off re: its status as a whole. If we could clarify this up, then I think you'll see more ppl willing to kill the steeds. As for Time Stop the fact that one can no longer injure foes whie they are stopped (can't "set up" spells in the frozen time) has vastly changed the use of this spell- it has become a tool for quick buffing and summons. Having seen it used frequently in 3.5, it has dropped from an abusive spell, to simply one reflecting the power of 9th lvl. Yes, it gets the buffs up quick, but that doesn't mean your opponent faces 5 Chain Lightnings before they can act ;)
barrel_master 09-03-04, 01:23 PM	Holy shitt, from the start I was planning on getting quicken spell for octavian but you fricking can't... hummm... 'QUICKEN SPELL [METAMAGIC] Benefit: Casting a quickened spell is a free action. You can perform another action, even casting another spell, in the same round as you cast a quickened spell. You may cast only one quickened spell per round. A spell whose casting time is more than 1 full round action cannot be quickened. A quickened spell uses up a spell slot four levels higher than the spell’s actual level. Casting a quickened spell doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. Special: This feat can’t be applied to any spell cast spontaneously (including sorcerer spells, bard spells, and cleric or druid spells cast spontaneously), since applying a metamagic feat to a spontaneously cast spell automatically increases the casting time to a full-round action.'
Caterane 09-04-04, 03:56 AM	There have been mutliple Crimson Sunrise deaths, and as of yet not a single phantom steed as perished. -ToK I am not sure if I have heard correctly, or if you just implied that Crimson is more fragile than the steed so I better ask you before bursting out in laughter: Do you think Crimson Sunrise is easier to kill than a phantom steed? Btw, Crimson has only been killed once by Iron the Panza and he used his best spells (3 Flamestrikes, 1 Searing light) to accomplish this.