Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Caterane 10-19-06, 06:10 PM	This thread is for questions, answers, comments, concerns and discussions related to the Core Coliseum UnCon Contest (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=724091).
SauroGrenom 10-19-06, 06:29 PM	Is there a reason why you closed the uncon thread already?
Zevox 10-19-06, 06:53 PM	Looking at the rules post for the contest, you may want to note that class allies do not have the CR/ECL restriction. Edit: Also, I'd like to repeat the suggestion someone gave earlier (hogarth? or Zelck?) of making a "Best Archer" category (either replacing all-around or as a 5th category). And I have one question: is there a limit on how many entries we can post? :plotting: Edit 2: Thought of another question - what, if any, normally credit-costing items are legal? If such things aren't options at all it should probably be mentioned in the thread. Edit 3: And yet another - what do we do about allies that normally take quests to get? Leadership cohorts, handle animal, diplomacy, animated undead, that sort of thing? Are they just not available? Zevox
Hirumajoe 10-19-06, 06:53 PM	Looks like its been unlocked. :-) So here's a question: Are you allowed 1 entry per person, or 1 entry per category (i.e. melee, spellcasting, stealth or all-round) per person? Edit: Doh, beaten to the punch!
McJarvis 10-19-06, 09:51 PM	If I have a character that I believe can fit three of the four categories, may I enter him in three?:-) - Self-answered ps- I'm really excited about this. :D
Macbrea 10-19-06, 11:04 PM	Hmm, now to decide is Yari an all around character, stealth character or fighter....
McJarvis 10-20-06, 12:39 AM	Tentative: Poe (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10407677&postcount=6) Probably for the Stealth award. (Though he might make a good run at the Mage or Best all-around, his primary tactic is Mort-esque stuff) (I have another motive though...I've been wanting to make this guy & not have to play him at lower levels :) ) Hope people can take into consideration his future plans too- the fact that he's gonna be a AT makes him even more threatening. edit- heh. Even got a pic now :)
False_Keraptis 10-20-06, 07:03 AM	Oh man, McJarvis! I was seriously eyeing the "shadow shaper" illusionist variant... I could still use it, but you beat me to the punch. Well done.
Caterane 10-20-06, 07:04 AM	Here's the link to the Events list for the UnCon. LINK (http://wizo.wizards.com/uncon/pages/events.php) CoCo still isn't in there. :(
Caterane 10-20-06, 07:30 AM	@Macbrea: You have to write the category into the title line! Else I cannot add him.
Zevox 10-20-06, 07:43 AM	So, could I get an answer to my earlier questions? A couple of them may be a bit important for some players - particularly the first. And I have one question: is there a limit on how many entries we can post? :plotting: Edit 2: Thought of another question - what, if any, normally credit-costing items are legal? If such things aren't options at all it should probably be mentioned in the thread. Edit 3: And yet another - what do we do about allies that normally take quests to get? Leadership cohorts, handle animal, diplomacy, animated undead, that sort of thing? Are they just not available? Zevox
Caterane 10-20-06, 07:51 AM	And I have one question: is there a limit on how many entries we can post? [No but come on, give newbies a chance Zevox :) ] Edit 2: Thought of another question - what, if any, normally credit-costing items are legal? If such things aren't options at all it should probably be mentioned in the thread. [They are not permitted and it is already in the rules] Edit 3: And yet another - what do we do about allies that normally take quests to get? Leadership cohorts, handle animal, diplomacy, animated undead, that sort of thing? Are they just not available? [They need no quest but customized allies are not allowed] ...
hogarth 10-20-06, 08:48 AM	Edit 3: And yet another - what do we do about allies that normally take quests to get? Leadership cohorts, handle animal, diplomacy, animated undead, that sort of thing? Are they just not available? [They need no quest but customized allies are not allowed] All leadership cohorts (and many animal companions) are customized. Does that mean they're out?
McJarvis 10-20-06, 09:47 AM	Whoa! I'll need to do a serious edit on mine, then....missed the part about no custom items :-O
Zevox 10-20-06, 10:14 AM	And I have one question: is there a limit on how many entries we can post? [No but come on, give newbies a chance Zevox :) ] Don't worry - I was just checking for a "limit 1" rule mostly. I don't intend to enter the stealth category (already have the only stealth character I intend on making), and I think I can restrain myself to one per category in the other three :) . Zevox
McJarvis 10-20-06, 10:45 AM	It will be akward if one person has two of the final four slots
Zevox 10-20-06, 10:47 AM	It will be akward if one person has two of the final four slots Somehow, I don't think the Elders or Cat would let that happen anyway :) . Zevox
TelinArtho 10-20-06, 11:31 AM	So I guess I'll make my submission and if it is later determined that I shall be needed for voting - I'll rescind it. Only have one submission for this - and no surprise it is a melee character...
TARDIS 10-20-06, 11:41 AM	Do centaurs need to take mounted combat before they can take spirited charge?
McJarvis 10-20-06, 11:57 AM	Do centaurs need to take mounted combat before they can take spirited charge? Centaurs are not mounted. I'm not sure they'd benifit from spirited charge. If they are considered mounted, then... 1) They can make ride checks to get +4 cover AC 2) With Mounted Combat they can make ride checks in place of their own AC 1/round.
Caterane 10-20-06, 12:11 PM	All leadership cohorts (and many animal companions) are customized. Does that mean they're out? No. "Customized" is a fixed expression in coco which means you change feats or skills on allies who are listed in the MM differently
Zevox 10-20-06, 12:15 PM	Centaurs are not mounted. I'm not sure they'd benifit from spirited charge. If they are considered mounted, then... 1) They can make ride checks to get +4 cover AC 2) With Mounted Combat they can make ride checks in place of their own AC 1/round. I believe hes extrapolating this from two things: First, Centaurs do double damage on a charge with lances, just as though they were mounted. This is said right in thier description. Second, Zelekhuts are said to qualify for feats as though they had Mounted Combat (even though they don't) due to thier "Centaur-like construction." I'm not sure if we want to extend that benefit to Centaurs themselves given that it is absent from thier description though. Zevox
McJarvis 10-20-06, 12:22 PM	I'm not sure if we want to extend that benefit to Centaurs themselves given that it is absent from thier description though. I'm not really against them qualifying for spirited charge myself, I'm just not sure the rules support it.
Zevox 10-20-06, 12:38 PM	I'm not really against them qualifying for spirited charge myself, I'm just not sure the rules support it. *shrugs* I agree, though you must admit that it does seem odd that the Zelekhut would get that benefit for being Centaur-like, yet the Centaur would not get it. Zevox
McJarvis 10-20-06, 12:42 PM	Yeah, totally. Poe is pretty much finished up fromthe earlier catastrophe(seriously- not using custom items made him alot harder ;) ). I had to do alot of stretching("running hot" as I like to call it) with skills, but I think he'll make a fine arcane trickster if he wins the contest. :-)
McJarvis 10-20-06, 12:52 PM	*shrugs* I agree, though you must admit that it does seem odd that the Zelekhut would get that benefit for being Centaur-like, yet the Centaur would not get it. Zevox Though, lets simplify this further: What if he WAS talking about a Zelekhut? Could the Zelekhut make a full ranged attack action while double moving or running?(with -4/-8 to attack, respectively) Could the Zelekhut cast spells if it were double moving or running?(with con check) Or is that language only meant for the mounted feats it does have: ride by attack & spirited charge? Also note that the Zelekhut's entry doesn't mention that it is a mounted character: just that it qualifies for mounted feats as if it had mounted combat already. Perhaps deviating from rules-as-written is required for this instance, as it seems poorly documented.
McJarvis 10-20-06, 12:59 PM	@Telin Your lycanthrope scares me. *shiver* :-)
Gonbow 10-20-06, 01:02 PM	Though, lets simplify this further: What if he WAS talking about a Zelekhut? Could the Zelekhut make a full ranged attack action while double moving or running?(with -4/-8 to attack, respectively) Could the Zelekhut cast spells if it were double moving or running?(with con check) Or is that language only meant for the mounted feats it does have: ride by attack & spirited charge? Also note that the Zelekhut's entry doesn't mention that it is a mounted character: just that it qualifies for mounted feats as if it had mounted combat already. Perhaps deviating from rules-as-written is required for this instance, as it seems poorly documented. Qualifying for mounted feats does you no good if you are not mounted, as they then wouldn't work. Sorry, but that's not deviating, it's simple logic. As for the rest... Probably, yes. Zelek's are beefy. And given the huge LA (And HD) on Centaurs, I don't see why they cant be either.
MindWandererB 10-20-06, 01:12 PM	Also note that the Zelekhut's entry doesn't mention that it is a mounted character: just that it qualifies for mounted feats as if it had mounted combat already. Perhaps deviating from rules-as-written is required for this instance, as it seems poorly documented.Right. It's not considered mounted for all purposes, just for the purpose of using feats that have Mounted Combat as a prerequisite. Let's take a look: MOUNTED ARCHERY [GENERAL] Prerequisites: Ride 1 rank, Mounted Combat. Benefit: The penalty you take when using a ranged weapon while mounted is halved: –2 instead of –4 if your mount is taking a double move, and –4 instead of –8 if your mount is running.The rule doesn't apply, since if you're the one doing the moving, you can't multi-task like this. This feat is useless to them. RIDE-BY ATTACK [GENERAL] Prerequisites: Ride 1 rank, Mounted Combat. Benefit: When you are mounted and use the charge action, you may move and attack as if with a standard charge and then move again (continuing the straight line of the charge). Your total movement for the round can’t exceed double your mounted speed. You and your mount do not provoke an attack of opportunity from the opponent that you attack.This is not unlike Spring Attack, but for a charge. This should work just fine. SPIRITED CHARGE [GENERAL] Prerequisites: Ride 1 rank, Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack. Benefit: When mounted and using the charge action, you deal double damage with a melee weapon (or triple damage with a lance).No reason why not. TRAMPLE [GENERAL] Prerequisites: Ride 1 rank, Mounted Combat. Benefit: When you attempt to overrun an opponent while mounted, your target may not choose to avoid you. Your mount may make one hoof attack against any target you knock down, gaining the standard +4 bonus on attack rolls against prone targets.This one's a bit awkward. It's like Improved Overrun with a free hoof attack. Although the language, if taken literally, would preclude the centaur from using it, I think it should work. The zelekhut has no hoof attack, so it wouldn't be able to use this. So there we have it: they all make sense, more or less, except for Mounted Archery, which improves an ability they don't have. I see no problem in allowing centaurs (and zelekhuts) to take and use those other feats as if they were mounted.
McJarvis 10-20-06, 01:14 PM	Thanks MW, that was a great explination :) edit- Just to be clear, I can reload a sling with an unseen servant, right? Important if I'm sniping
TelinArtho 10-20-06, 01:21 PM	@Telin Your lycanthrope scares me. *shiver* :-) Thanks - I've spent a lot of time on him. I actually was planning on adding him in to the regular roster at some point in the future, but then the credit cost was a little too high to justify and my other higher ECL characters have all blundered... One of the things I try to work with is excluding stuff that I wouldn't allow in my own game (as a DM or a player) - so anything psionic is out as are anything from the UA and such. My current plan hasn't fully developed, but I am intending at the very least to pick up 2 levels of druid... then the forest map is a wonderful place to me. I'll probably round it out to 3 levels of druid to get to level 10 and then finish with fighter (lots of different and conflicting plans with him... if only I could have two of him...). In another version, I had plans of adding wizard instead of druid (before I realized the benefits of druid levels in the forest map...), but putting the points in intelligence into other places has helped him immensely. I just wish I had a sure-fire way of improving his Will save in all forms (Cloak of Resistance won't work when changing shape - maybe I'll ask for a custom Ioun Stone of Resistance if he makes it into the regular roster...)
TelinArtho 10-20-06, 01:22 PM	I realize that not all of the posted characters are complete yet, but I'll be posting errors in sheets as I see them. I don't want someone to enter for a category and then get summarily disqualified because of errors: Iced - a couple quick notes about Carillo: 1. His strength is 18. As such, damage modifiers for your long sword/short sword when wielded singly and in TWF are off. In the first case, they should be 1d8+4 and 1d6+4 respectively; in the latter case, they should be 1d8+4/1d6+2 2. Your total power point and your allowed per fight are off. It looks like you just need to update it though - because I see the correct value silvered out... 3. Your speed is modified by medium armor, not heavy; your encumbrance needs to be calculated and your thresholds need to be adjusted for your 18 str. 4. Remove the text after your two-weapon fighting feat. TWF does not allow you to "Convert BAB to damage" - looks like it used to be power strike. 5. Your hit points shows 10 for your first level (paladin), but you only have 2 skill points from paladin. If paladin was first, you should have 5 points from paladin total. Likewise, you have 8 skill points listed for wilder and none for slayer. You have spent a total of 10 skill points, but 6 of those are just generically thrown into cross class ranks of Knowledge (Geography) - you need to specify their source. All of this indicates that you do need to spend 3 more skill points from paladin and 2 more from Slayer. Furthermore - you don't have the requirements for slayer in your character: 4 ranks in Knowledge (Dungeoneering). Until you gain this, you don't qualify for slayer. 6. A full attack for you includes a 2nd attack with your primary weapon - you should include this in your stats. 7. Your prebuffs mention "Bring Wrath" - but you have no allies listed. 8. Under "Non-combat abilities" - you have human as your listed race - but Carillo is a wood elf. Also, as a level 4 wilder - you should have Surging Euphoria listed in the appropriate section as well. 9. Your total and exp to next level are incorrect. 10. The points listed with your abilities don't match up with the values. Your base Str is 16 (10 points), Dex is 14 (6 points), Con is 16 (10 points), and Cha is 17 (13 points). You have over-spent by 3 points.
McJarvis 10-20-06, 01:25 PM	I realize that not all of the posted characters are complete yet, but I'll be posting errors in sheets as I see them. I don't want someone to enter for a category and then get summarily disqualified because of errors: you might want to do me last since I'm actively editing Poe right now.
TelinArtho 10-20-06, 01:33 PM	Yeah - plus I would have to look up the UA stuff... I thought you were crazy adding in your intelligence to your hide check...
McJarvis 10-20-06, 01:33 PM	Yeah - plus I would have to look up the UA stuff... I thought you were crazy adding in your intelligence to your hide check... >=] edit- though I only used the Illusionist Variant from UA. Everything else is clean.
McJarvis 10-20-06, 01:43 PM	Ok, I think I'm done. Only things I need to add in now is a familiar write-up(not important- don't intend on using the familiar in battle) & some more misc expendibles. Only things added from UA are listed in the "class abilities/features" section at the bottom of the sheet. Just locked sights on a variant race I want... Helllooo air goblin.
Macbrea 10-20-06, 01:59 PM	@Macbrea: You have to write the category into the title line! Else I cannot add him. I understand. I am trying to figure out what category he best fits in and make sure the character sheet is correct in it's method. I also need to add some fluff to the character sheet as he is just a ball of stats as he stands now.
McJarvis 10-20-06, 02:43 PM	Is the CoCo supposed to show up on the UnCon list of events? I don't see it...
Hirumajoe 10-20-06, 02:46 PM	Here's the link to the Events list for the UnCon. LINK (http://wizo.wizards.com/uncon/pages/events.php) CoCo still isn't in there. :( I'm presuming Cat signed it up, but the list hasn't been updated.
McJarvis 10-20-06, 02:48 PM	Right. Reading what others say helps....heh
Hirumajoe 10-20-06, 02:57 PM	@McJarvis: Quick question regarding Poe (who's looking good), is with the Shadow Shaper varient, do you receive Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat at 1st level? SRD regarding Wizards: Scribe Scroll At 1st level, a wizard gains Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat. UA regarding Shadow Shapers: An illusionist using this variant does not gain bonus feats for advancing as a wizard. Its unfortunately not very clear to me, and I could see it being ruled either way.
McJarvis 10-20-06, 03:00 PM	@McJarvis: Quick question regarding Poe (who's looking good), is with the Shadow Shaper varient, do you receive Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat at 1st level? SRD regarding Wizards: Scribe Scroll At 1st level, a wizard gains Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat. UA regarding Shadow Shapers: An illusionist using this variant does not gain bonus feats for advancing as a wizard. Its unfortunately not very clear to me, and I could see it being ruled either way. Hum. I hadn't thought of it that way. I always read the wizard description like this: Scribe Scroll: At 1st level, a wizard gains Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat. Bonus Feats: At 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level, a wizard gains a bonus feat. At each such opportunity, she can choose a metamagic feat, an item creation feat, or Spell Mastery. The wizard must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including caster level minimums. So the Shadow-shaper thing eliminates the class feature called bonus feats. edit- Since it's a family of abilities(there is one ability for each specialty that replaces bonus feats), it's reasonable to assume the Divinist one can help define what the illusionist one is talking about: Bonus Feat List A diviner using this variant gradually grows in awareness and perceptive ability, but at the expense of her metamagic capabilities. The diviner may not select a metamagic feat as a wizard bonus feat (that is, those feats gained at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level). However, the following feats are added to the list of bonus feats available to her at those levels: Alertness, Blind-Fight, Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, and Skill Focus (Spot, Listen, or Sense Motive only). So yeah, I still get scribe scroll :)
TelinArtho 10-20-06, 03:08 PM	Well, this applies to more than just the UnCon, but since both characters are in the UnCon stuff - I figured I would bring it up here. Looking at MacBrea's Dire Wereweasel, I'm a little confused by the way his feats are presented: Level: Stealthy1,Deflect Arrow 3 Race: Iron Will ww, Weapon Finesse ww, Scent ww, Weapon profiencyelf(longsword, rapier, longbow, composite longbow, shortbow, and composite shortbow) Class: Improved Unarmed Strike1mk,Weapon Profiency1mk(Monk weapons) Bonus: Improved Grapple1mk From this, I see he gained Stealthy at 1st HD, Deflect Arrows at 3rd HD. Ok - good. Race however, gets a little muddy - as he adds Iron Will (a bonus for lycanthropes - ok), Weapon Finesse (?), Scent (not a feat - but an ability of the template), Elven Weapon Proficiencies (ok). Class - Improved Unarmed Strike (monk 1), Monk Weapon Proficiencies (ok). Bonus - Improved Grapple (ok) So the question is about weapon finesse. In the description of Lycanthropes as characters, I see the following: —Racial Feats: Add the animal’s Hit Dice to the base character’s own Hit Dice to determine how many feats the character has. All lycanthropes gain Iron Will as a bonus feat. but then this, under the Creating a Lycanthrope section: Feats: Add the base animal’s feats to the base creature’s. If this results in a lycanthrope having the same feat twice, the lycanthrope gains no additional benefit unless the feat normally can be taken more once, in which case the duplicated feat works as noted in the feat description. This process may give the lycanthrope more feats than a character of its total Hit Dice would normally be entitled to; if this occurs, any “extra” feats are denoted as bonus feats. It’s possible that a lycanthrope cannot meet the prerequisites for all its feats when in humanoid form. If this occurs, the lycanthrope still has the feats, but cannot use them when in humanoid form. A lycanthrope receives Iron Will as a bonus feat. Two different methods for determining feats. In the first, I don't think he gets the bonus Weapon Finesse feat from the Dire Wereweasel, but in the second, its arguable he should get this feat for free (as well as Stealthy...). If it is the second method, then it is arguable that I get to add track and run as "free feats" from the deinonychus - but that just doesn't seem right... So - I'm curious about what is the correct way to handle it... Any thoughts?
Zevox 10-20-06, 03:16 PM	The way I always read Lycanthropes and feats was that you get those in your normal feat slots if the animal HD (or with natural ones your first level) give you them, and as bonus feats if not. Obviously that can't displace an existing feat (i.e. afflicted lycanthrope with levels before become a lycan), but the reference to getting them as bonus feats only if adding the race's gives you more than you're entitled to leads me to believe that they have to use available HD/level feat slots first when you gain the template. (Which is one reason why I'm waiting until ECL 9 to make Destra a Werewolf - she then gets all of her wolf feats for free, since her HD will only hit 11 :) .) Zevox
MindWandererB 10-20-06, 03:18 PM	Lycanthrope feats are ugly. Let me do a walkthrough: You apply levels in the following order: class 1, animal 1-N, class 2-N. So it goes like this: 1) Monk 1. Choose any 1 feat for which you qualify. Deflect Arrows would be the best choice for Yari, here. He also gets IUS and Improved Grapple as normal for a monk. 3) Monk 1, Animal 2. The character is obligated to take a feat that the animal has--Alertness or Stealthy in this case. Yari chooses Stealthy. 4) Monk 1, Animal 3. This is the last animal HD for the wereweasel. You can see that the dire weasel still has one chosen feat and one bonus feat that Yari hasn't selected yet. He therefore gains them--Alertness and Weapon Finesse--as bonus feats. He gets Iron Will, too, by merit of being a lycanthrope. Does that make sense? I know it's complicated.
Hirumajoe 10-20-06, 03:21 PM	Two different methods for determining feats. In the first, I don't think he gets the bonus Weapon Finesse feat from the Dire Wereweasel, but in the second, its arguable he should get this feat for free (as well as Stealthy...). If it is the second method, then it is arguable that I get to add track and run as "free feats" from the deinonychus - but that just doesn't seem right... So - I'm curious about what is the correct way to handle it... Any thoughts? Well, from the way I read it, they're not necessarily in conflict. The first one states how many feats you "should" have. The second tells you what those should be. If you would get more than the number you "should have" with the second method, those become bonus feats. If you were to have fewer than the number you "should have", then you'd get to add more feats of your choice. The first statement you quote doesn't preclude bonus feats in any way, and the second is telling you how to determine which ones are bonus feats.
TelinArtho 10-20-06, 03:24 PM	But it still is a question of which way it is done. For instance, a were deinonychus adds 4 HD to a character, who, for the sake of argument - has 1 HD. A deinonychus has 2 feats (run and track). When this template is added, if you use the first description I posted, then the player has a total of three feats (1 at 1HD, 1 at 3HD, plus the bonus Iron Will). If you use the other method, the character has a total of 4 feats (1 at 1HD as a PC, 2 gained from the deinonychus and Iron Will from Lycanthrope). I think the latter mentioned method is rather short-sighted - as it does create issues with HD and feat. Explaining that they are "just bonus feats" isn't a satisfactory answer for me either... Frankly, I think it should be the first method, but even in that case, it doesn't satisfy whether MacBrea's character gains the Weapon Finesse as a bonus. [EDIT] Ok - apparently I'm in minority here and I misunderstood how they are supposed to work. So - for Jar-red, he's a human barbarian. At 1st level, he chooses 2 feats - Run and Fleet of Foot. When he gains the lycanthrope template he adds Run and Track - but since Run is already taken, he doesn't get it a second time and he doesn't get further benefit for it. For lack of other place to put it - Track is "taken" at the 3rd HD. He also gains Iron Will as a bonus for the template. What this shows me is that my character actually doesn't work right now - whereas - under the Lycanthrope as characters section - he previously did...
MindWandererB 10-20-06, 03:28 PM	Zevox and I are saying the same thing. A weredeinonychus would have: · 1 feat of their choosing, for which they qualify with 1 HD and 1 class level · Run as a selected feat at 3 HD · Track as a bonus feat (or vice-versa: Track chosen, Run bonus) · Iron Will · Any bonus feats of the character's class. You can check the MM's lycanthropes, all of them were created this way.
TelinArtho 10-20-06, 03:39 PM	Okay - so with this enlightenment, I now need to adjust the feats my friend Jar-red has taken. Unfortunately, no matter what I do to adjust it - he can't start with Multiattack and unless I want to "lose" a feat, I probably shouldn't start with Fleet of foot. At 1st Barbarian, he gets 2 feats (1 HD and Human bonus) Then he adds one feat from the lycanthrope at 3rd HD (Run) and and the bonus feats (Track and Iron Will). If I take Run and Fleet of Foot at 1st and Human bonus respectively, I "lose" one feat - because it would've been one gained from the template. I can probably do without Fleet of Foot until the next level anyway - which would be 6HD, so I can work with that. This leaves me with 2 slots open and having to adjust for the "lessened" attack boni since I don't have the reduced penalties of Multiattack (which wouldn't be picked up until ECL10 or 11). Thoughts?
MindWandererB 10-20-06, 03:49 PM	I'm of two minds about whether he can start with Multiattack. Although he has to take his class HD first, it's not necessarily true that he wasn't a lycanthrope before that. He might have been infected as a child, for instance, before acquiring his first level of Barbarian. (The sample, natural werebear in the MM has chosen Multiattack as his level 1 feat.) I'd be inclined to allow it.
TelinArtho 10-20-06, 03:52 PM	Would you be of a similar mind then to allow him to take Fleet of Foot as his Racial Human bonus? Or would that be asking too much?
MindWandererB 10-20-06, 03:55 PM	Since Run is the prereq, no, that wouldn't work. He may have natural attacks at level 1, but he still has to take the feats in order.
TelinArtho 10-20-06, 03:58 PM	Alright - I can work with that. Thanks for bearing with me. Of course, if someone comes along and tells me I've got something wrong - I'll just have to deal with it at that point I guess... Of course this is why I tend to steer away from templated characters... [EDIT] Okay - he's been adjusted. Took Dodge and I'll just have to "gulp" one level without Fleet of Foot I guess.
Macbrea 10-20-06, 04:20 PM	Isn't weapon finesse a bonus feat of Dire weasel in the First place? That was my reasoning behind taking it. By MindwanderB's statement I have shorted myself Alertness. Now, I have confused myself with this... Gah
Macbrea 10-20-06, 04:31 PM	Feats Level: Deflect Arrow 1, Stealthy3 Race: Iron Will Bww, Weapon Finesse Bww, Weapon profiencyelf(longsword, rapier, longbow, composite longbow, shortbow, and composite shortbow), AlertnessBww Class: Improved Unarmed Strike1mk,Weapon Profiency1mk(Monk weapons) Bonus: Improved Grapple1mk Abilities: Scent (ex) I think if I understand MindwanderB correct according to the rules this is the correct way in which I am suppose to do this.
TelinArtho 10-20-06, 04:40 PM	Yes - though I don't understand why you separate Improved Grapple into a Bonus category and not into the Class category (or the other bonus feats with that bonus one) - but that's just semantics...
Macbrea 10-20-06, 04:53 PM	It was my anotation. I will move it upto the class feats and add a B to it.
Macbrea 10-20-06, 04:57 PM	Feats Level: Deflect Arrow 1, Stealthy3 Race: Iron Will Bww, Weapon Finesse Bww, Weapon profiencyelf(longsword, rapier, longbow, composite longbow, shortbow, and composite shortbow), AlertnessBww Class: Improved Unarmed Strike1mk,Weapon Profiency1mk(Monk weapons), Improved Grapple1mkB Abilities: Scent (ex),Attach(ex) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/direWeasel.htm),Blood Drain (1d4 con)(ex) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/direWeasel.htm), Flurry of Blows(ex), Auto search secret doors within 5ft(ex), Lowlight vision(ex), Alternate Form(su) , Lycanthropic Empathy(ex), Curse of Lycanthropy (hybrid and animal form only)(su) Should be a cleaner looking setup. I am trying to reduce the amount of space on a visable character sheet to annotate items for an auditor.
Zelck 10-20-06, 05:05 PM	OMG. A grappling were-weasel. That's genius!
TelinArtho 10-20-06, 05:13 PM	I just noticed that there doesn't seem to be a restriction for expendables in the UnCon contest - is that deliberate or an oversight? @Zelck - MacBrea's been talking about that guy for quite a while (and I thought he'd already been posted) - many people thought it was ingenious then - which might be why no one seems to be too surprised by it now...
Zelck 10-20-06, 05:18 PM	Well, I didn't see it then, so yea :P.
MindWandererB 10-20-06, 06:22 PM	@MacBrea: Looks right to me.
False_Keraptis 10-20-06, 07:48 PM	Can these characters have leadership cohorts? I was under the impression that one had to quest for these. Although I don't really care for allies, I'm a little tempted to make a halfling that rides around on a worg. Thanks.
Zevox 10-20-06, 10:50 PM	Can these characters have leadership cohorts? I was under the impression that one had to quest for these. Although I don't really care for allies, I'm a little tempted to make a halfling that rides around on a worg. Thanks. I asked about that earlier, the answer was that you could have them without the quest for this. Zevox
Zevox 10-21-06, 12:49 AM	Well, after a lot of work, my entries are done (most likely anyway) and posted. Eviscerator is an idea I had a long time ago, but shied away from doing when Telin mentioned he had done something similar. I decided I may as well enter him here and see what happens - looking at the competition, I'd give him good odds at least against the other Best Warriors currently. Mindrel Starmaster is basically in on the off chance that I can manage to get the Mystic Theurge I've wanted to play since I joined for free :D . I expect once he gets some competition he won't look to good as a best caster, but hey, you never know. (Pity this isn't set at ECL 8 - Theurges start looking a lot better when they have access to 3rd level spells from two classes.) And then theres my best all-around, Mithos Durrol. Whether he goes anywhere in this or not he'll be showing up in the arena sometime (albeit starting at ECL 3 if he doesn't make it here), and he'll be my character for the monarchist's Guild if they win the Guild poll. Normally I wouldn't use a UA class like this (particularly a Paladin variant), but for his RP (speaking of which, I should probably write that up and add it to my character backgrounds post) its kinda unavoidable, since Blackguard takes way too much investment to get and making him a regular Paladin just does not work. I also regret not giving his cohort domains her God actually grants, but not overly much since shes temporary (at ECL 8 he'll pick up a Pegasus cohort instead). He'll be a fun one to play :) . Zevox
McJarvis 10-21-06, 02:03 AM	Mindrel Starmaster is basically in on the off chance that I can manage to get the Mystic Theurge I've wanted to play since I joined for free :D . And now you know why I built Poe the way I did ;)
Vathelokai 10-21-06, 03:35 AM	Havn't read the characters submitted fully, but did anyone else notice that the stealth builds can get the minor fey bloodline (basicly free) and get a +2 to hide? Or minor demon for +2 move silent? *EDIT* Blast! If this were ecl8, you would all be eaten by psibeast.
McJarvis 10-21-06, 11:33 AM	Havn't read the characters submitted fully, but did anyone else notice that the stealth builds can get the minor fey bloodline (basicly free) and get a +2 to hide? Or minor demon for +2 move silent? *EDIT* Blast! If this were ecl8, you would all be eaten by psibeast. I didn't include the bloodline because I felt it wasn't best for my character(lost spell progression eventually) & felt the judges would take the bloodline into account when judging. They could also get minor white dragon for the +hide, but I think fey is better.
Vathelokai 10-21-06, 06:50 PM	Can you buy magical ammo in stacks smaller than 50 arrows? Are all psionic expendables (tattoos, dorjes, stones) allowed for use, or do you have to use the non augmented lowest manifester lv? Can they have metapsionic enhancement? What are the ally rules? Any purchaseable ally? Animals trained by NPCs allowed? Vermin trained as mounts allowed?
hogarth 10-21-06, 10:20 PM	Can you buy magical ammo in stacks smaller than 50 arrows? No, nothing that costs credits other than races & classes. Are all psionic expendables (tattoos, dorjes, stones) allowed for use, or do you have to use the non augmented lowest manifester lv? Can they have metapsionic enhancement? Sure. Anything goes as long as it doesn't cost credits. What are the ally rules? Any purchaseable ally? Animals trained by NPCs allowed? Vermin trained as mounts allowed? No customised (feats/skills/improved) allies, but otherwise anything else goes, I think.
Zevox 10-21-06, 11:11 PM	@ Vath - slight correction to what Hogarth said, Tattoos still have to be minimum ML and probably can't be metapsionic (don't think I've ever seen anything indicating they can be). Basically, our rules haven't changed here save insofar as credit-costing stuff goes (can't have it unless its a race/class), custom allies go (can't have them), and the quest prerequisite for allies goes (ignored since you can't quest with these guys yet). Zevox
hogarth 10-21-06, 11:36 PM	@ Vath - slight correction to what Hogarth said, Tattoos still have to be minimum ML and probably can't be metapsionic (don't think I've ever seen anything indicating they can be). There was a discussion after someone had a powerstone of Enlarged Matter Agitation. It was decided that it was permissible because of this quotation: Psionic Items and Metapsionic Powers With the right psionic item creation feat, you can store a metapsionic power in a power stone, psionic tattoo, or dorje. Level limits for psionic tattoos apply to the power’s higher metapsionic level. A character doesn’t need the appropriate metapsionic feat to activate an item in which a metapsionic power is stored, but does need the metapsionic feat to create such an item.
Zevox 10-21-06, 11:40 PM	There was a discussion after someone had a powerstone of Enlarged Matter Agitation. It was decided that it was permissible because of this quotation: *shrugs* I knew powerstones could be, I just wasn't sure about tattoos (reasoning: no potions have metamagic feats, and tattoos are essentially psionic potions - not exactly bulletproof rules-reasoning, but it makes sense to me). Thanks for the quote though. Our own rule about minimum ML for tattoos still applies though. Zevox
Etiquette_Gnome 10-21-06, 11:42 PM	Can the credit cost limitation be ignored with the Gather Information skill package option?
Zevox 10-21-06, 11:47 PM	Can the credit cost limitation be ignored with the Gather Information skill package option? I'd be willing to bet the answer is "no" (and in any event you can't use gather information pre-creation anyway - have to do it as a full activity or free activity). I think the point of that (and the "no custom allies" rule) is to make things simpler on the non-members we're trying to attract with this (if the contest ever gets added to that list, that is...). Zevox
Caterane 10-22-06, 08:22 AM	I put up a limit of 1 character/category per player. Thanks to Zevox for indirectly reminding me of that :P Also, try to post new characters not copies from existing ones! Copies will influence your chances negatively.
Hirumajoe 10-22-06, 09:07 AM	Also, try to post new characters not copies from existing ones! Copies will influence your chances negatively. Hmm... In that case, I may have to change Kai Engel around severely. I am correct in assuming we can make changes up until the actual judging? Maybe convert Kai Engel to a Fighter/Human Paragon/Wizard. Same Gish-ness, much different abilities and equipment.
malakaiunseen 10-22-06, 09:45 AM	On saturday, October 28, is the deadline to submit a character. After this deadline the Core Coliseum Elders will vote for the best character in his category. I don't know if this question sounds redundant to some of you here, but as a DnD player, rather than a numbers cruncher, :P I find myself wondering what the criteria is for this decision of 'best character'. Are we talking 'looks most likely to be able to kill everything'? Or perhaps, most rounded, unique, original, complete, believable, something more substantial than the combination of rules that best kills other combinations of rules. Is this a 'character' competition? Or is CoCo by its very nature only interested in killability?
SauroGrenom 10-22-06, 10:29 AM	I don't know if this question sounds redundant to some of you here, but as a DnD player, rather than a numbers cruncher, :P I find myself wondering what the criteria is for this decision of 'best character'. Are we talking 'looks most likely to be able to kill everything'? Or perhaps, most rounded, unique, original, complete, believable, something more substantial than the combination of rules that best kills other combinations of rules. Is this a 'character' competition? Or is CoCo by its very nature only interested in killability? Your character needs to be able to go it alone in a fight at EL=ECL and win. Preferably against anything. That being said, there are lots and lots of ways to accomplish this goal. Given two simularly potent builds, the one with more character holds an advantage in my eyes. But being able to survive in the arena is a basic must. You may look here to get some basic ideas about what you could be up against.
malakaiunseen 10-22-06, 12:01 PM	OK, thanks for that! I will make a character to rule them all then! :P (Yeah right...)
Hirumajoe 10-22-06, 02:41 PM	Kai Engel has been completely redesigned from the ground up. So he's probably got a few new errors. Also, as a side note, buying spells for prestige class type wizards gets expensive fast...
Macbrea 10-23-06, 09:00 AM	@Zelck - MacBrea's been talking about that guy for quite a while (and I thought he'd already been posted) - many people thought it was ingenious then - which might be why no one seems to be too surprised by it now... I posted him a very long time ago. I think 8-10 months ago. I never got around to building up the 20 credits and applying them to him. When it was announced that ECL 7 was the level for Uncon. I figured I would submit him as my choice. He has never actually been tested in the arena to see if he is viable. My guess is against non-alpha striking creatures he rocks. Against blasters he probably goes down pretty quick. Hence the reason I didn't drop him in the all-around category.
hogarth 10-24-06, 12:23 PM	I've posted Alois Molehusband (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10446352&postcount=29), my spellcasting build. He's built around the same sort of idea as Reginald Molehusband, but with draconic cropdusters instead of grappling horses. If anyone spots any errors, let me know.
Caterane 10-24-06, 04:11 PM	We have some volunteers for the mini-tournament: - TelinArtho - Pittbull - SauroGrenom - Erithmu (needs a full week to run a fight) - Vathelokai There will be 4 fights: 2*semi-finals, match for 3rd place, and the grand final. We have to finish these fights asap; preferably within one week. If there are any pitlords who want to run an uncon fight please speak up. You gain 2° but the fight must be up as soon as you get tactics!
tunagolem 10-26-06, 12:35 AM	Please check Shfif (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10445172&postcount=28).
Erithmu 10-26-06, 12:44 AM	Please check Shfif (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10445172&postcount=28). 2 things w/ build structure: 1 - you can't take both the sneak attack fighter and rogue levels. It is listed at the top of the 'other variants page' it is outside the Sblock 2 - You don't have a bloodline level taken. Both of these are CoCo house rules to the variants, so you might want to take a look at them.
Zevox 10-26-06, 01:37 AM	Please check Shfif (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10445172&postcount=28). In addition to Erithmu's notes: 1) Gloves of dexterity won't apply in Viper form (no hands to wear them on). 2) Neither of your up-to-date forms list any Control Shape modifier, which will be a big problem for an afflicted Lycanthrope (can't choose when to shift forms without it). 3) What makes you think you can extract your natural poison and apply it to other weapons? Theres no mechanic for that whatsoever. 4) Your tattoos of compression will only last one round. You'll probably not want to keep them. 5) You cannot flurry with a sling (both because its not a monk weapon designed for such and because it takes a move action to reload anyway). 6) Potions do not reduce in size or weight. They come only in standard size (vials that weigh 1/10 lb). That'll make carrying any significant amount of them tough on you unless you improve your strength score. 7) The size and weight should probably be listed seperately for each form - you're definitely not 1 ft tall in Halfling form, and aside from that theres no way you're 1 lb in any of your forms. 8) You can probably do away with a lot of those extraneous quotes from the SRD - nobody needs the entire "making a lycanthrope" entry and tiny viper stat block on your sheet when they can just look it up in the SRD. All it does is make your sheet unecessarily larger. Zevox
tunagolem 10-26-06, 05:31 AM	2 things w/ build structure: 1 - you can't take both the sneak attack fighter and rogue levels. It is listed at the top of the 'other variants page' it is outside the Sblock 2 - You don't have a bloodline level taken. Both of these are CoCo house rules to the variants, so you might want to take a look at them. 1. That is omly for taking levels in two veriants of the smae class. 2. The first bloodline level is 6th, witch will be taken if I win.
tunagolem 10-26-06, 05:42 AM	In addition to Erithmu's notes: 1) Gloves of dexterity won't apply in Viper form (no hands to wear them on). 2) Neither of your up-to-date forms list any Control Shape modifier, which will be a big problem for an afflicted Lycanthrope (can't choose when to shift forms without it). 3) What makes you think you can extract your natural poison and apply it to other weapons? Theres no mechanic for that whatsoever. 4) Your tattoos of compression will only last one round. You'll probably not want to keep them. 5) You cannot flurry with a sling (both because its not a monk weapon designed for such and because it takes a move action to reload anyway). 6) Potions do not reduce in size or weight. They come only in standard size (vials that weigh 1/10 lb). That'll make carrying any significant amount of them tough on you unless you improve your strength score. 7) The size and weight should probably be listed seperately for each form - you're definitely not 1 ft tall in Halfling form, and aside from that theres no way you're 1 lb in any of your forms. 8) You can probably do away with a lot of those extraneous quotes from the SRD - nobody needs the entire "making a lycanthrope" entry and tiny viper stat block on your sheet when they can just look it up in the SRD. All it does is make your sheet unecessarily larger. Zevox 1. I'll put them one above the other on the tail, since snakes do use there bodey in that way (lifting or crushing). 2. Will be fixed. The Shape can hold for more than 8 hours. 3. A viper can simply bite a cup, and it's poison will get out of it's teath. 4. True. 5. Will be switched to Shuricans. 6. It sayes somewere that a big potion still has to be drunk compleatly for effect, so it has to be the same with small ones, but I'll try to think of a solution any way. Can I keap some of my potion at home for the second fight? 7. true. 8. most of them help me, and proboly can help the pitlords, that is what sblock is for, but I'll take some off.
Zevox 10-26-06, 08:57 AM	1. I'll put them one above the other on the tail, since snakes do use there bodey in that way (lifting or crushing). I'm afraid that still won't work. Gloves must be worn on hands to be effective (by definition thats the body slot they take up), and in any event you'll have a hard time convincing most anyone that you can actually manipulate them well enough in snake form to get them on your tail securely (because they certainly aren't going to be put there when you change shape automatically). 3. A viper can simply bite a cup, and it's poison will get out of it's teath. In real life, true. What indication do you have that this is permissable in D&D using the core rules of the game? 6. It sayes somewere that a big potion still has to be drunk compleatly for effect, so it has to be the same with small ones, but I'll try to think of a solution any way. Can I keap some of my potion at home for the second fight? If you could find that quote about larger potions, you could probably get the smaller potions (presuming its from a core source). But in any event you can leave items at home and then put into your inventory in your second or third fight, yes, though those still count towards your expendible cap. 1. That is omly for taking levels in two veriants of the smae class. Actually, no (though thats not allowed either since they're effectively the same class anyway). It is for a variant and a class which grant the same class feature - the example given is a fighter becoming a variant rogue (or vice-versa) to get thier bonus feats from two classes is disallowed. So theres no way you could be a regular rogue and a variant fighter with sneak attack, since both give the sneak attack class feature. Zevox
tunagolem 10-26-06, 12:07 PM	I'm afraid that still won't work. Gloves must be worn on hands to be effective (by definition thats the body slot they take up), and in any event you'll have a hard time convincing most anyone that you can actually manipulate them well enough in snake form to get them on your tail securely (because they certainly aren't going to be put there when you change shape automatically). In real life, true. What indication do you have that this is permissable in D&D using the core rules of the game? If you could find that quote about larger potions, you could probably get the smaller potions (presuming its from a core source). But in any event you can leave items at home and then put into your inventory in your second or third fight, yes, though those still count towards your expendible cap. Actually, no (though thats not allowed either since they're effectively the same class anyway). It is for a variant and a class which grant the same class feature - the example given is a fighter becoming a variant rogue (or vice-versa) to get thier bonus feats from two classes is disallowed. So theres no way you could be a regular rogue and a variant fighter with sneak attack, since both give the sneak attack class feature. Zevox 1. OK. We don't have time for elder desesion. 3. It doesn't say that a snake needs to breath, and thus can draone. When you don't have rules, common sense and real life will sefice. 6. I'll use searh engen, but it might be in one of the core books. I read it much before I read any non-core matirial. 1. Multiclassing And Variant Classes: Multiclassing between different variants of the same class (including the standard version) is not possible (just as a character can't multiclass between different versions of specialist wizards). Once the path, fighting style, totem, etc is chosen, it cannot be changed later. Asides from that, multiclassing works normally
Zevox 10-26-06, 12:17 PM	3. It doesn't say that a snake needs to breath, and thus can draone. When you don't have rules, common sense and real life will sefice. Actually, it does say that snakes need to breath - its in the general description of the animal type (odd that it needs to be pointed out for some, but every type of creature specifies whether it needs to eat, sleep, or breath in the type description). I suppose you could nonetheless argue it can be done, but I expect you'll run into other objections to it. Just take that into account. 1. Multiclassing And Variant Classes: Multiclassing between different variants of the same class (including the standard version) is not possible (just as a character can't multiclass between different versions of specialist wizards). Once the path, fighting style, totem, etc is chosen, it cannot be changed later. Asides from that, multiclassing works normally Try checking the rules about multiclassing using simple variants: Prohibited Class: If a player picks one of the 'Other Class Variants' below, he may not take or possess levels in the class that provided the feature. For example, a fighter could not multiclass into a variant rogue to gain additional bonus feats. This is to prevent 'frontloaded' builds. The rule you quoted is for the more detailed variants. This one applies to the "simple" variants that just exchange one or two class features for another class', such as your variant fighter with sneak attack. Edit: Also, check the description of this variant in the Rules of Gladius thread, where it specifically states that having levels of it and rogue is prohibited: Some fighters prefer stealth and cunning over martial skill. This variant can also be combined with the thug variant. He may not take or possess any rogue levels. Gain: Sneak attack (as rogue). Lose: Bonus feats. Zevox
tunagolem 10-26-06, 03:05 PM	Thanks for all the help. 1. So does that mean that he can't replace the rogue level, with the veriant rogue without sneakattack?
Zevox 10-26-06, 03:08 PM	Thanks for all the help. 1. So does that mean that he can't replace the rogue level, with the veriant rogue without sneakattack? I don't see why he couldn't. The variant class won't provide him with sneak attack, and he doesn't have levels as a regular fighter, so it should be open to him by the explanation in the rules of the reason for this. Zevox
MindWandererB 10-26-06, 03:10 PM	Thanks for all the help. 1. So does that mean that he can't replace the rogue level, with the veriant rogue without sneakattack? I see no reason why he couldn't take levels in both the variant rogue and the variant fighter, just not the normal of one and the variant of the other.
Macbrea 10-26-06, 03:24 PM	I see no reason why he couldn't take levels in both the variant rogue and the variant fighter, just not the normal of one and the variant of the other. Variant Classes are still considered the class and therefore, 'He may not take or possess any rogue levels.' Would seem to indicate he cannot take any rogue levels. Now, Oddly nothing prevents him from taking Assassin levels.
MindWandererB 10-26-06, 03:36 PM	Variant Classes are still considered the class and therefore, 'He may not take or possess any rogue levels.' Would seem to indicate he cannot take any rogue levels. Now, Oddly nothing prevents him from taking Assassin levels. I'm not so sure. The rule states, "If a player picks one of the 'Other Class Variants' below, he may not take or possess levels in the class that provided the feature." Since a variant rogue does not gain sneak attack, it is not "the class that provided the feature," and thus should be allowed. Assassin would not, the way it's written.
SauroGrenom 10-26-06, 04:11 PM	Let me just express how sad I am that I'm not allowed to enter a character in the Uncon Contest. I figured that if I had any chance to win an Uncon, it would be at this... At ECL7, Bill the Pizza Guy will be a factastic all around character. Well, I look forward to running the battle. We shall see who wins it all!
TelinArtho 10-26-06, 05:07 PM	I've been looking over a number of the characters already presented. I want to recommend that to all of the people who have already posted to take a thorough look-through on their characters and make sure there are no errors with the build. I'm sure that the judges will overlook minor errors (like incorrect skill boni and such), but it will be tough to judge in favor a character who relies on a feat that they may not qualify for or something similar. As an aside - @Cat - at what point would an entry be allowed to continue in the competition if errors are found? A feat he doesn't qualify for? What about misallocated skill points? Or spending too much money? etc etc. Or will that be a judgement call on the part of the judges?
Caterane 10-27-06, 05:58 AM	Too many mistakes will affect your chances negatively; especially ones that the build relies on. We're not going to throw them into prison right now - we don't have time for that - and even the finals should be held, mistakes or not but the winners who are added to the roster must be valid before they can begin. As said, the Elders should take build mistakes into consideration when they vote. I'll brief them when the time comes.
hogarth 10-27-06, 04:35 PM	I just noticed that Erithmu's character "Engada" is listed in two categories: (incorrectly) under "Best Spellcaster" and (correctly) under "Best All Around".
malakaiunseen 10-28-06, 03:44 AM	On saturday, October 28, is the deadline to submit a character. After this deadline the Core Coliseum Elders will vote for the best character in his category. What is the exact deadline we're looking at for this?
Caterane 10-28-06, 05:47 PM	It's 23:46 CET, a quarter hour before sunday, which means the submissions thread is now closed. The Elders have been informed and will now begin to vote on your characters. Each Elder has 3 Voices per category: the FIRST one earns you 3 Points, the second voice 2 points, and the third voice one point. The character with the most voices wins. The results will be up on monday at the latest. After that, the finals begin...
hogarth 10-28-06, 06:01 PM	May the best competitor win! What is the policy with partially completed characters?
Caterane 10-28-06, 06:05 PM	The Elders will decide how battle-ready the character is. If he cannot fight the finals there will be no voices for him. EDIT: Since there's still some hours to midnight in some parts of the (new) world :D I'll open it for another few hours. EDIT: Oki, now's the time. Thread closed again.
tunagolem 10-29-06, 03:07 PM	Can I still add my backroud for Shfif? Caterane, can I send you a PM with the stuff for a new post in the locked thread? Shueld I delete Stupi?
malakaiunseen 10-29-06, 09:18 PM	Wow, that Best Warrior section is hotly contended, best all rounder is too. I can't wait to see what the results of this comp are! When should we expect the results from the first round of voting? And will they be posted in this thread or elsewhere? Good luck to all who made a character!
Zevox 10-29-06, 09:35 PM	Can I still add my backroud for Shfif? Caterane, can I send you a PM with the stuff for a new post in the locked thread? Shueld I delete Stupi? No and no. With the thread locked it means the Elders and Cat are voting for the winner in each category now, so the time for editing of any sort is up. If a character is highly incomplete, it obviously won't win, and since the thread is temporary anyway theres no need to delete the character (or at least not any need to go out of the way to do so now that the thread is locked). When should we expect the results from the first round of voting? And will they be posted in this thread or elsewhere? Cat said the results would be up monday at the latest. I'd guess they'll be posted here to make sure no one misses them. Good luck to all who made a character! Indeed :D . It should be quite interesting to see who wins each of those - theres some very good entrants all around. *wonders briefly if Mithos gets bonus points for having a detailed background* ;) Zevox
TelinArtho 10-29-06, 09:47 PM	Well, my votes are in... some of the categories were very difficult for me to vote in. After the fact, if anyone is interested in some of the notes I made about the characters (whether they win or lose), please feel free to PM me at that point.
Erithmu 10-29-06, 09:50 PM	I'm starting to regret not dropping in my spellcaster with only 3 fully completed sheets in the mix. Then again I couldn't decide on Cloistered Cleric or Wizard or Psion... or wilder ... well yea ... thats why. I almost made up my pacifist ... that would have been interesting.
Zevox 10-29-06, 09:51 PM	Well, my votes are in. So, does this mean you're getting promoted to Elder to take KU's place? :D Zeovx
NiQil 10-29-06, 10:11 PM	So, does this mean you're getting promoted to Elder to take KU's place? :D Zeovx Not at present. TelinArtho and Erithmu were asked to vote in categories they did not have entries in to account for KU not being around to vote. Whether another Elder is promoted to replace him remains to be seen. It's something I have had conversations about with Cat, and I have already made my opinions on the subject known. But Cat is still holding out for KU to come back full time, so we'll be down an Elder for the foreseeable future. Edit: Also, my votes are already complete as well. Once the final results have been posted, I would be happy to let anyone know who I voted for, if they are so inclined.
Erithmu 10-29-06, 10:40 PM	yea .. my votes are in as well ... well 'vote'
MindWandererB 10-29-06, 11:02 PM	So are mine. It was kind of interesting... one of the biggest challenges was that many of the most solid concepts had some substantial mechanical errors. I will say that many of them deserved some recognition that I didn't get a chance to vote for.
tunagolem 10-30-06, 04:40 AM	Please check Shfif (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10445172&postcount=28). Here are some of my misstakes: Attribute points spread in halfling form. Misscalculated HP in halfling and small viper forms (should be 38). Attributes and ACs in halfling form do not include enhancment boni, while the saves and skills do. More than once: E armor, instead of Inertial Armor. Small viper form's saves include a +1 res bonus that doesn't exist. Racial bonus vs. fear: not included. Racial bonus to listen: not included. Wand of Cure light wounds includes the price of a masterwork tool, but doesn't say that it is. Please note that the main form used is the hybrid, and thus most misstakes do not effect combat.
Caterane 10-30-06, 05:51 AM	The Elders have voted! All information can be found in the UnCon Contest thread.
Hirumajoe 10-30-06, 07:22 AM	First, thanks for the contest! Second, congrats to the finalists (including the one that beat my all-around entry :) ) And I was soooo close too. Although the winner was the one I would have guessed for that category. Kai Engel wasn't really unique enough compared to some of the entries.
tunagolem 10-30-06, 07:34 AM	Can I add Shfif (http://boards1.wizards.com/leaving.php?destination=http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php%3Fp%3D10445172%26postcount% 3D28) to the mercanery list? He was a lot of work after all.
Zevox 10-30-06, 08:09 AM	Holy crap, Mindrel actually won the Best Spellcaster :eek: . Now theres something I wasn't expecting! I'd figured if any of mine placed, it'd be Mithos. Guess lack of competition let him get lucky or something. In any event, congratulations to all the winners and near-winners (this was a tough competition, anybody that got close to winning deserves some recognition too :D ). I'm looking forward to the matches. Though it looks like Mindrel got the hardest one he could've for the first match, but so be it - just makes it that much more enjoyable to puzzle out some tactics for :) . Zevox
Abyssal Stalker 10-30-06, 08:21 AM	Can I add Shfif (http://boards1.wizards.com/leaving.php?destination=http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php%3Fp%3D10445172%26postcount% 3D28) to the mercanery list? He was a lot of work after all. You can post him to the "propose your mercenary" -thread and then it's up to Cat if he will become a mercenary or not.
Pittbull 10-30-06, 09:25 AM	Poe the Dark Raven (McJarvis) vs. Mindrel Starmaster (Zevox) : Pittbull [Arena] [UnCon] Both of you can send me your tactic now, the earlier you get them to me, the faster the fight will be up. BTW, where should this one being posted? In the Battle-Thread? Or the UnCon-Thread? @Cat: Since you've closed the thread, we can not quote the character-sheets, just copying isn't the best solution. Any other option?
McJarvis 10-30-06, 10:09 AM	Though it looks like Mindrel got the hardest one he could've for the first match, but so be it - just makes it that much more enjoyable to puzzle out some tactics for :) . Zevox I haven't really looked at your guy yet- but thanks for the ego boost :-) edit- Hum. I suppose it's nothing short of ironic that the winner of the stealth contest has access to third level spells & the winner of the spellcasting contest doesn't.
Caterane 10-30-06, 10:53 AM	Both of you can send me your tactic now, the earlier you get them to me, the faster the fight will be up. BTW, where should this one being posted? In the Battle-Thread? Or the UnCon-Thread? @Cat: Since you've closed the thread, we can not quote the character-sheets, just copying isn't the best solution. Any other option? I'll open them on wednesday along with the pairings.
Zevox 10-30-06, 11:05 AM	I haven't really looked at your guy yet- but thanks for the ego boost :-) No problem ;) . Heh, though looking over Poe, I think he'll have some real trouble beating Mindrel too. Which kinda makes me sorry Pittbull has to run that... fights where both characters have a hard time beating the other are rarely fun. Hum. I suppose it's nothing short of ironic that the winner of the stealth contest has access to third level spells & the winner of the spellcasting contest doesn't. Indeed :) . Like I said, I really didn't expect Mindrel to win, he was just in on the off chance I could my Theurge for free (and hey, it worked!). He won't be overly scary until level 8 (3rd level spells from two classes hurts). @ Cat - Just thought of something, do the UnCon battles count for rewards/used items in these characters' records since they're going onto the roster after this (in which case does this also mean they're onfight 3 of a cycle after this mini-tournment)? Or do they get treated as frozen/out-of-cycle? Zevox
McJarvis 10-30-06, 11:08 AM	No problem ;) . Heh, though looking over Poe, I think he'll have some real trouble beating Mindrel too. I know what you mean. I'm already including phrases like "This will come down to the luck of the dice" and whatnot in my tactics. ;) Indeed :) . Like I said, I really didn't expect Mindrel to win, he was just in on the off chance I could my Theurge for free (and hey, it worked!). He won't be overly scary until level 8 (3rd level spells from two classes hurts). Ironic again that we face off against each other, since Poe was my attempt to get an Arcane Trickster for free... As far as being a part of the cycle- I'm guessing not. Otherwise Poe would have had a free action to do...but we were not instructed to put up free actions and whatnot.
TelinArtho 10-30-06, 12:57 PM	Good luck to Vathelokai in the fight. Should be interesting (or at least I hope it is...). @Sauro - will be sending along my tactics shortly.
Caterane 10-30-06, 01:40 PM	@Zevox: I suppose you haven't properly bought expendables and one or the other item might be added. These fights follow the 1/3 rule normally but are all out of cycle. After that you begin with your 3FC normally.
Vathelokai 10-30-06, 01:51 PM	:OMG! I honestly wasn't expecting that. Jar-red will be tough. Good luck to Telin.
McJarvis 10-30-06, 01:54 PM	@Zevox: I suppose you haven't properly bought expendables and one or the other item might be added. These fights follow the 1/3 rule normally but are all out of cycle. After that you begin with your 3FC normally. Does this mean Poe gets a free activity? It'll obviously be to Craft(Disturbing Mental Image) for money. :-)
Vathelokai 10-31-06, 04:27 AM	The Rewards: All finalists may keep their character and add them to the CoCo Roster as active Characters of GladiusDoes this mean that all 4 finalists are added to the roster? Neeto.
Pittbull 10-31-06, 04:28 AM	@McJarvis: Thanks, all tactics received.
Zevox 10-31-06, 09:32 PM	@ Pittbull - Tactics for Mindrel have been PMed. Good luck with that - I do hope it isn't as annoying to run as I suspect it will be. Zevox
Vathelokai 11-01-06, 11:41 AM	Tactics for Antalya sent to Sauro. Man, if I can get past Jar-Red, the other two are nothing. Here's hoping.
Zevox 11-01-06, 11:59 PM	Tactics for Antalya sent to Sauro. Man, if I can get past Jar-Red, the other two are nothing. Here's hoping. Oh, I wouldn't be too sure about that if I were you. I'm pretty confident Mindrel could take your flying radar station with a bow - he just loves you low will save types ;) . 'Course that depends on him overcoming the one-trick-wonder too. We'll just see how that one rolls out. Zevox
McJarvis 11-02-06, 12:01 AM	Oh, I wouldn't be too sure about that if I were you. I'm pretty confident Mindrel could take your flying radar station with a bow - he just loves you low will save types ;) . 'Course that depends on him overcoming the one-trick-wonder too. We'll just see how that one rolls out. Zevox Hey now. I have two tricks. I can hide AND move silently. :P
Pittbull 11-02-06, 05:09 AM	@McJarvis/Zevox: Please send me a proper format of your charactersheet (for example: hit the edit button, copy it, but not the save-button). This way, we have a nicer post. @Cat: Where should the fight be posted?
Caterane 11-02-06, 05:41 AM	@Cat: Where should the fight be posted? In the Battles of Gladius thread.