A Good Fighter? [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Good Fighter? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
LittleDragon_JKD
10-24-04, 02:21 AM I want to make a good fighter that works out in the end
*good with a sword*
*has neet abilitys and such*

what should i start out as and work towards in the end
*what feets should i take and etc*

~i kinda want to make him sephiroth bassed~
is there anything close to him
Lhiannon Sidhe
10-24-04, 03:33 AM This is probably better answered in the Character Optimization board.

Good with a sword? Well, first off, put a high stat on strength, since that determines how well you can hit with a melee weapon, and take feats like Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization for your sword of choice.

As for neat abilities, depends on what you think is "neat". For example, You could take some levels as a Wizard, and then move into the Spellsword presige class (From the Tome and Blood suppliment) so that you could cast spells through your sword, and wear armour while casting spells.
MetalGemini
10-24-04, 10:21 AM Spend some time thinking about what you want your character to do and what style of fighter you want to be.

Do you want to deal as much damage as possible?
Do you want to be a finesse fighter?
Add some rogue levels and be stealthly?
Add some wizard/sorcerer/cleric levels for some spells?
etc

We can't help you if all you say is "I want to use a sword and have abilities." Spend some time browsing the Character Optimization boards and see if anything catches you eye so you can narrow your character concept down.
Kingside_Bishop
10-24-04, 02:20 PM The Character Optimization board is a better place for this question, but I'll give it a go. I played a Sephiroth based character once -- but just the fighting style, not the character itself. I used a weapon that basically had all the stats of a glaive, but was a long sword instead.

This was my build, as I remember it (now edited with the help of the folk on this board):

01 Samurai 1 Quick Draw, Improved Initiative
02 Samurai 2 Combat Reflexes
03 Samurai 2 / PsiWar 1 Standstill, Combat Expertise
04 Samurai 2 / PsiWar 1 / Monk 1 Dodge
05 Samurai 2 / PsiWar 1 / Monk 2 Mobility
06 Samurai 3 / PsiWar 1 / Monk 2 Spring Attack
07 Samurai 4 / PsiWar 1 / Monk 2 Weapon Focus (masamune)
08 Samurai 4 / PsiWar 1 / Monk 2 / Iajitsu Master 1
09 Samurai 4 / PsiWar 1 / Monk 2 / Iajitsu Master 1 / Weapon Master 1 Whirlwind Attack
10 Samurai 4 / PsiWar 1 / Monk 2 / Iajitsu Master 1 / Weapon Master 2
11 Samurai 4 / PsiWar 1 / Monk 2 / Iajitsu Master 1 / Weapon Master 3
12 Samurai 4 / PsiWar 1 / Monk 2 / Iajitsu Master 1 / Weapon Master 4 Power Attack
13 Samurai 4 / PsiWar 1 / Monk 2 / Iajitsu Master 1 / Weapon Master 5
14 Samurai 4 / PsiWar 1 / Monk 2 / Iajitsu Master 1 / Weapon Master 6
15 Samurai 4 / PsiWar 1 / Monk 2 / Iajitsu Master 1 / Weapon Master 7 Sunder
16 Samurai 4 / PsiWar 1 / Monk 2 / Iajitsu Master 1 / Weapon Master 8
17 Samurai 4 / PsiWar 1 / Monk 2 / Iajitsu Master 1 / Weapon Master 9
18 Samurai 4 / PsiWar 1 / Monk 2 / Iajitsu Master 1 / Weapon Master 10 Improved Sunder
19 Samurai 4 / PsiWar 1 / Monk 2 / Iajitsu Master 2 / Weapon Master 10
20 Samurai 4 / PsiWar 1 / Monk 2 / Iajitsu Master 3 / Weapon Master 10 Note that we were using the Oriental Adventures variant in which monks can freely choose their feats, much like fighters.

"Standstill" allows you to force an enemy you strike with an Attack of Opportunity to make a Fortitude Save, or his movement stops in the square in which he provoked the AoO. With a reach weapon, this means that they can't close with you unless they have reach, unless they make their save. This is a psionic feat.

"Sunder" refers to the PHB "Improved Sunder," but there is a feat of that name in Sword and Fist that doubles the damage on a sunder attempt, so to avoid confusion I still refer to "Improved Sunder" as "Sunder."

"Improved Sunder" refers to the feat of that name in Sword and Fist, not the feat of that name in the PHB.Then, in Epic levels, go Iajitsu Master and don't look back...

Hope this was helpful!
LittleDragon_JKD
10-24-04, 09:13 PM thanks Kingside_Bishop :D
Kingside_Bishop
10-24-04, 11:03 PM No problem!
LittleDragon_JKD
10-25-04, 12:54 AM what about the psionic warrior the dm said it would be beter then the psion..but i dont no if hes right becuse hes new at the whole dming thing really and where can i find the blade master?

my char is a assmire too so hes 25% celestial will that affect anything to do with your charactor plan?
Kingside_Bishop
10-25-04, 11:00 AM Sounds great!

Aasimar is fine, and so is Psychic Warrior. I just used psion because there was a psionic ability I wanted that the psychic warrior didn't have. I replaced a few feats so I could manifest it for free half of the time... but all of this is of little import since that build is like three years old. The one above is way better.

Psychic Warrior would be a better choice, now that I think about it, because then you can get a quick bonus feat. Move all the feats up a slot, and take Monkey Grip before entering the Power Attack > Sunder build. With a Masamune made for a large character, your reach goes up to 15ft! On the downside, you take -2 to attack.

But 15ft reach with Whirwind Attack and Spring Attack! And you still threaten 10ft away... sounds like greatness to me. I'm going to edit the build.
nihility
10-25-04, 11:50 AM Psychic Warrior would be a better choice, now that I think about it, because then you can get a quick bonus feat. Move all the feats up a slot, and take Monkey Grip before entering the Power Attack > Sunder build. With a Masamune made for a large character, your reach goes up to 15ft! On the downside, you take -2 to attack.
Monkey Grip does not affect reach. Your reach is defined entirely by two things: your natural reach (related to your size), and if your weapon has the "reach" descriptor (which simply doubles your natural reach). Any weapons that break this rule, such as the whip, say so explicitly.
Kingside_Bishop
10-25-04, 04:43 PM I could be wrong, but I took my info from Arms and Equipment Guide, that says explicitly (I could be wrong, don't have the book with me as I am at school right now) that a reach weapon that has its size category increased has its reach adjustement changed accordingly.

I think.

I could be wrong.
nihility
10-25-04, 06:02 PM I could be wrong, but I took my info from Arms and Equipment Guide, that says explicitly (I could be wrong, don't have the book with me as I am at school right now) that a reach weapon that has its size category increased has its reach adjustement changed accordingly.

I think.

I could be wrong.
Tricky. I'm basing what I said off of how reach works in 3.5, as far as I understand it; perhaps this question should be posed to a more rules-oriented board?
Kingside_Bishop
10-25-04, 07:15 PM You're right, but just in case I'm wrong, instead of taking Monkey Grip, you might take Improved Combat Expertise -- that is a feat that sees such heavy use in my campaigns/characters, it's always worth it.

Having Power Attack and Combat Expertise adds alot of versatility to any character. Many of my characters have both.
LittleDragon_JKD
10-26-04, 12:28 AM Thanks again ^_^

what book is the blade master from?
Kingside_Bishop
10-26-04, 12:47 PM Oriental Adventures.

I looked into the Arms and Equipment Guide, and the DMG 3.5, and it looks like the DMG would probably have the better ruling, because in fact the reach in the DMG with a reach weapon is longer than it would be if you followed the rules in the Arms and Equipment Guide.

But since the DMG sais that a large creature's reach weapon extends his reach by 10ft, I would rule that it would extend a medium creature's reach by 10ft as well if he could somehow use it (i.e. Monkey Grip).

Ultimately, I would ask your DM about this. I'd be inclined to go with 15ft, because that's part of the advantage of using Monkey Grip, but there are those who would disagree with me. I'm going to send an e-mail to Wizards.
Kingside_Bishop
10-26-04, 11:50 PM Nihility was right. I got a response from Wizards, and they said that your reach would stay at 10ft, even though you're using a reach weapon designed for a larger creature than yourself.

Good job, nihility.

Oh well, that frees up a feat, then. What about Improved Initiative? If you have access to Oriental Adventures, then you'd have access to Iajitsu Strike. That's what those cool samurai do when they jump up from meditation and cut a local rock in two. As long as you go first in combat (hence Improved Initiative), you do extra damage. It's a skill that you take ranks in, and you make a skill check to determine how much extra damage. If you don't have OA, I could post the basics here, along with the Blademaster.
nihility
10-27-04, 01:11 AM Good job, nihility.
Danke, danke. Thanks for the legwork (email work?) in getting confirmation :thumbsup:

Oh well, that frees up a feat, then. What about Improved Initiative? If you have access to Oriental Adventures, then you'd have access to Iajitsu Strike...
Oh, god yes. This is perfect, if you can manage. OA Samurai get better skills than the fighter, ancestral swords that they can enchant without the aid of a spellcaster, and you can get into the Iaijutsu Master PrC for more nifty abilities and an absolutely awesome trick attack. Good thinking!

Edit: Sephiroth, you say? I should note that Iaijutsu Masters are drawn almost entirely from the Crane Clan; a common trait in this clan is white hair. Also, Iaijustu Master lets you add your INT to AC when unarmored, which makes it more viable to lose the fullplate.
Kingside_Bishop
10-27-04, 01:24 AM That's a great idea! We could replace fighter with samurai, and the 1st level psychic warrior bonus feat would cover for the feat difference, still allowing for early enterance into Weapon Master and Iajitsu Master!

Editing build!
nihility
10-27-04, 10:34 AM Problem: the current incarnation is looking at some significant MAD issues. We want INT, WIS, and CHA for the various class abilities and powers, plus the usual STR and CON for a melee fighter. Tricky. I'll try to come up with some less stat-intensive variants.
Kingside_Bishop
10-27-04, 12:02 PM That's the problem -- Sephiroth was strong, quick, tough, smart, perceptive, and charismatic.
LittleDragon_JKD
10-27-04, 07:45 PM What book do you get the samurai from to lol

and i never hurd of Oriental Adventure stuff.

and scence we are starting this fridday would it be to much trouble if one of you can wright down the stuff for the samurai
nihility
10-27-04, 11:16 PM ...and scence we are starting this fridday would it be to much trouble if one of you can wright down the stuff for the samurai
Courtesy of amazon's "search inside" feature, you can find the OA samurai here:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0786920157/ref=sib_db_rdr/102-5537416-8801744#reader-link
nihility
10-27-04, 11:18 PM Argh! They removed the class section!

Alas, since OA was never released under the OGL, we cannot post it for you. Perhaps you could sneak a peek at your local store?
nihility
10-27-04, 11:20 PM Okay, here's the easy ways: get into Warmind or Psychic Weapon Master. Warmind is a psionic PrC and is in the SRD, if you don't have the XPH, and the Psychic Weapon Master is here in its 3.5-updated glory:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d
LittleDragon_JKD
10-28-04, 09:08 PM The Hijitsue master says i need weapon focus katana
Kingside_Bishop
10-30-04, 04:31 PM Yeah, but a Masamune is just a really long katana. I would allow it, and was able to convince my DM to as well. Just replace everything that says "Katana" with "Masamune."

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LittleDragon_JKD 10-24-04, 02:21 AM	I want to make a good fighter that works out in the end good with a sword has neet abilitys and such what should i start out as and work towards in the end what feets should i take and etc ~i kinda want to make him sephiroth bassed~ is there anything close to him
Lhiannon Sidhe 10-24-04, 03:33 AM	This is probably better answered in the Character Optimization board. Good with a sword? Well, first off, put a high stat on strength, since that determines how well you can hit with a melee weapon, and take feats like Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization for your sword of choice. As for neat abilities, depends on what you think is "neat". For example, You could take some levels as a Wizard, and then move into the Spellsword presige class (From the Tome and Blood suppliment) so that you could cast spells through your sword, and wear armour while casting spells.
MetalGemini 10-24-04, 10:21 AM	Spend some time thinking about what you want your character to do and what style of fighter you want to be. Do you want to deal as much damage as possible? Do you want to be a finesse fighter? Add some rogue levels and be stealthly? Add some wizard/sorcerer/cleric levels for some spells? etc We can't help you if all you say is "I want to use a sword and have abilities." Spend some time browsing the Character Optimization boards and see if anything catches you eye so you can narrow your character concept down.
Kingside_Bishop 10-24-04, 02:20 PM	The Character Optimization board is a better place for this question, but I'll give it a go. I played a Sephiroth based character once -- but just the fighting style, not the character itself. I used a weapon that basically had all the stats of a glaive, but was a long sword instead. This was my build, as I remember it (now edited with the help of the folk on this board): 01 Samurai 1 Quick Draw, Improved Initiative 02 Samurai 2 Combat Reflexes 03 Samurai 2 / PsiWar 1 Standstill, Combat Expertise 04 Samurai 2 / PsiWar 1 / Monk 1 Dodge 05 Samurai 2 / PsiWar 1 / Monk 2 Mobility 06 Samurai 3 / PsiWar 1 / Monk 2 Spring Attack 07 Samurai 4 / PsiWar 1 / Monk 2 Weapon Focus (masamune) 08 Samurai 4 / PsiWar 1 / Monk 2 / Iajitsu Master 1 09 Samurai 4 / PsiWar 1 / Monk 2 / Iajitsu Master 1 / Weapon Master 1 Whirlwind Attack 10 Samurai 4 / PsiWar 1 / Monk 2 / Iajitsu Master 1 / Weapon Master 2 11 Samurai 4 / PsiWar 1 / Monk 2 / Iajitsu Master 1 / Weapon Master 3 12 Samurai 4 / PsiWar 1 / Monk 2 / Iajitsu Master 1 / Weapon Master 4 Power Attack 13 Samurai 4 / PsiWar 1 / Monk 2 / Iajitsu Master 1 / Weapon Master 5 14 Samurai 4 / PsiWar 1 / Monk 2 / Iajitsu Master 1 / Weapon Master 6 15 Samurai 4 / PsiWar 1 / Monk 2 / Iajitsu Master 1 / Weapon Master 7 Sunder 16 Samurai 4 / PsiWar 1 / Monk 2 / Iajitsu Master 1 / Weapon Master 8 17 Samurai 4 / PsiWar 1 / Monk 2 / Iajitsu Master 1 / Weapon Master 9 18 Samurai 4 / PsiWar 1 / Monk 2 / Iajitsu Master 1 / Weapon Master 10 Improved Sunder 19 Samurai 4 / PsiWar 1 / Monk 2 / Iajitsu Master 2 / Weapon Master 10 20 Samurai 4 / PsiWar 1 / Monk 2 / Iajitsu Master 3 / Weapon Master 10 Note that we were using the Oriental Adventures variant in which monks can freely choose their feats, much like fighters. "Standstill" allows you to force an enemy you strike with an Attack of Opportunity to make a Fortitude Save, or his movement stops in the square in which he provoked the AoO. With a reach weapon, this means that they can't close with you unless they have reach, unless they make their save. This is a psionic feat. "Sunder" refers to the PHB "Improved Sunder," but there is a feat of that name in Sword and Fist that doubles the damage on a sunder attempt, so to avoid confusion I still refer to "Improved Sunder" as "Sunder." "Improved Sunder" refers to the feat of that name in Sword and Fist, not the feat of that name in the PHB.Then, in Epic levels, go Iajitsu Master and don't look back... Hope this was helpful!
LittleDragon_JKD 10-24-04, 09:13 PM	thanks Kingside_Bishop :D
Kingside_Bishop 10-24-04, 11:03 PM	No problem!
LittleDragon_JKD 10-25-04, 12:54 AM	what about the psionic warrior the dm said it would be beter then the psion..but i dont no if hes right becuse hes new at the whole dming thing really and where can i find the blade master? my char is a assmire too so hes 25% celestial will that affect anything to do with your charactor plan?
Kingside_Bishop 10-25-04, 11:00 AM	Sounds great! Aasimar is fine, and so is Psychic Warrior. I just used psion because there was a psionic ability I wanted that the psychic warrior didn't have. I replaced a few feats so I could manifest it for free half of the time... but all of this is of little import since that build is like three years old. The one above is way better. Psychic Warrior would be a better choice, now that I think about it, because then you can get a quick bonus feat. Move all the feats up a slot, and take Monkey Grip before entering the Power Attack > Sunder build. With a Masamune made for a large character, your reach goes up to 15ft! On the downside, you take -2 to attack. But 15ft reach with Whirwind Attack and Spring Attack! And you still threaten 10ft away... sounds like greatness to me. I'm going to edit the build.
nihility 10-25-04, 11:50 AM	Psychic Warrior would be a better choice, now that I think about it, because then you can get a quick bonus feat. Move all the feats up a slot, and take Monkey Grip before entering the Power Attack > Sunder build. With a Masamune made for a large character, your reach goes up to 15ft! On the downside, you take -2 to attack. Monkey Grip does not affect reach. Your reach is defined entirely by two things: your natural reach (related to your size), and if your weapon has the "reach" descriptor (which simply doubles your natural reach). Any weapons that break this rule, such as the whip, say so explicitly.
Kingside_Bishop 10-25-04, 04:43 PM	I could be wrong, but I took my info from Arms and Equipment Guide, that says explicitly (I could be wrong, don't have the book with me as I am at school right now) that a reach weapon that has its size category increased has its reach adjustement changed accordingly. I think. I could be wrong.
nihility 10-25-04, 06:02 PM	I could be wrong, but I took my info from Arms and Equipment Guide, that says explicitly (I could be wrong, don't have the book with me as I am at school right now) that a reach weapon that has its size category increased has its reach adjustement changed accordingly. I think. I could be wrong. Tricky. I'm basing what I said off of how reach works in 3.5, as far as I understand it; perhaps this question should be posed to a more rules-oriented board?
Kingside_Bishop 10-25-04, 07:15 PM	You're right, but just in case I'm wrong, instead of taking Monkey Grip, you might take Improved Combat Expertise -- that is a feat that sees such heavy use in my campaigns/characters, it's always worth it. Having Power Attack and Combat Expertise adds alot of versatility to any character. Many of my characters have both.
LittleDragon_JKD 10-26-04, 12:28 AM	Thanks again ^_^ what book is the blade master from?
Kingside_Bishop 10-26-04, 12:47 PM	Oriental Adventures. I looked into the Arms and Equipment Guide, and the DMG 3.5, and it looks like the DMG would probably have the better ruling, because in fact the reach in the DMG with a reach weapon is longer than it would be if you followed the rules in the Arms and Equipment Guide. But since the DMG sais that a large creature's reach weapon extends his reach by 10ft, I would rule that it would extend a medium creature's reach by 10ft as well if he could somehow use it (i.e. Monkey Grip). Ultimately, I would ask your DM about this. I'd be inclined to go with 15ft, because that's part of the advantage of using Monkey Grip, but there are those who would disagree with me. I'm going to send an e-mail to Wizards.
Kingside_Bishop 10-26-04, 11:50 PM	Nihility was right. I got a response from Wizards, and they said that your reach would stay at 10ft, even though you're using a reach weapon designed for a larger creature than yourself. Good job, nihility. Oh well, that frees up a feat, then. What about Improved Initiative? If you have access to Oriental Adventures, then you'd have access to Iajitsu Strike. That's what those cool samurai do when they jump up from meditation and cut a local rock in two. As long as you go first in combat (hence Improved Initiative), you do extra damage. It's a skill that you take ranks in, and you make a skill check to determine how much extra damage. If you don't have OA, I could post the basics here, along with the Blademaster.
nihility 10-27-04, 01:11 AM	Good job, nihility. Danke, danke. Thanks for the legwork (email work?) in getting confirmation :thumbsup: Oh well, that frees up a feat, then. What about Improved Initiative? If you have access to Oriental Adventures, then you'd have access to Iajitsu Strike... Oh, god yes. This is perfect, if you can manage. OA Samurai get better skills than the fighter, ancestral swords that they can enchant without the aid of a spellcaster, and you can get into the Iaijutsu Master PrC for more nifty abilities and an absolutely awesome trick attack. Good thinking! Edit: Sephiroth, you say? I should note that Iaijutsu Masters are drawn almost entirely from the Crane Clan; a common trait in this clan is white hair. Also, Iaijustu Master lets you add your INT to AC when unarmored, which makes it more viable to lose the fullplate.
Kingside_Bishop 10-27-04, 01:24 AM	That's a great idea! We could replace fighter with samurai, and the 1st level psychic warrior bonus feat would cover for the feat difference, still allowing for early enterance into Weapon Master and Iajitsu Master! Editing build!
nihility 10-27-04, 10:34 AM	Problem: the current incarnation is looking at some significant MAD issues. We want INT, WIS, and CHA for the various class abilities and powers, plus the usual STR and CON for a melee fighter. Tricky. I'll try to come up with some less stat-intensive variants.
Kingside_Bishop 10-27-04, 12:02 PM	That's the problem -- Sephiroth was strong, quick, tough, smart, perceptive, and charismatic.
LittleDragon_JKD 10-27-04, 07:45 PM	What book do you get the samurai from to lol and i never hurd of Oriental Adventure stuff. and scence we are starting this fridday would it be to much trouble if one of you can wright down the stuff for the samurai
nihility 10-27-04, 11:16 PM	...and scence we are starting this fridday would it be to much trouble if one of you can wright down the stuff for the samurai Courtesy of amazon's "search inside" feature, you can find the OA samurai here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0786920157/ref=sib_db_rdr/102-5537416-8801744#reader-link
nihility 10-27-04, 11:18 PM	Argh! They removed the class section! Alas, since OA was never released under the OGL, we cannot post it for you. Perhaps you could sneak a peek at your local store?
nihility 10-27-04, 11:20 PM	Okay, here's the easy ways: get into Warmind or Psychic Weapon Master. Warmind is a psionic PrC and is in the SRD, if you don't have the XPH, and the Psychic Weapon Master is here in its 3.5-updated glory: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d
LittleDragon_JKD 10-28-04, 09:08 PM	The Hijitsue master says i need weapon focus katana
Kingside_Bishop 10-30-04, 04:31 PM	Yeah, but a Masamune is just a really long katana. I would allow it, and was able to convince my DM to as well. Just replace everything that says "Katana" with "Masamune."