A Paladin's code [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Paladin's code [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Cifer
05-12-06, 05:34 PM Hiho everyone!

For my new paladin, I developed a code of honor in order to avoid the messy "You just fell"-"I didn't!"-"Did!"-"Didn't!".
Please critique and look whether I have missed something important.
Explanations: While the rules of honourable combat are equal in ranking, the seven commandments are superceding each other, the first being the most important. In cases where not all commandments can be achieved, the paladin should try to go for the highest ones.

The seven commandments of Heironeous
1. Obey the god
Heironeous is the paladin's highest god.
All have to answer to him.
The paladin does not use forces supernaturally tainted by those who stand against Heironeous.
Those should be relatively clear. No blaspheiming against the big H and no carrying of unholy swords.

2. Protect the Innocent
Heironeous charges are those without guilt.
The paladin's charges are those without known guilt.
Although the lives of many are more important than the lives of few, the paladin strifes to protect all.
Basically standard paladin duty

3. Obey the church
The paladin obeys his superiors, as the church is the voice of Heironeous.
He justly commands those beneath him.

4. Fight the active evils
The paladin fights all that which Heironeous judges as unjust or evil.
That which is judged by the paladin as unjust or evil, he brings to the council of the church or a court of law blessed by one of those Heironeous considers allies in order to listen to the judgement of Heironeous.
Only when he sees no other opportunity, the paladin judges in the stead of Heironeous, although the undead, the aberrant and the fiendish shall always be subjected to the righteous wrath of the paladin if he does not find extraordinary circumstances for granting mercy.
The paladin has other ways of fighting than his arms.
Trying to ensure no detect-thumpings and bringing some medium grounds between Judge Dread and Can't-do-anything.

5. Honour
The paladin always acts with at least the honour appropriate to others.
He does not fight dishonourably against those which would not fight dishonourably against him.
He observes etiquette and is courteous at all times.
He neither speaks an untrue word nor omits a true one.
A code of honour should contain that word. While honouring a fiend would probably lead to a dead paladin, that should not grant carte blanche against any opponent. Also, I hate thinking along the lines "I'm not actually lying when I'm omitting vital facts" for maintaining a code. That should be reserved for rogues in a zone of truth.

6. Conversion of evil
The paladin tries to convert those whose thinking is an abomination to Heironeous.
Alternative to killing evil stuff, yet low-ranking enough that the paladin does not have to convert every single selfish innkeeper when he has to save the world by next monday.

7. Protection of own life
The paladin does not cast aside his life easily.
It's always easy to go down in a blaze of glory.

Honourable combat:
1. Do not fight with superior numbers against an opponent whose kind is not obviously superior to your's.
Storm giants and others of their kind are not really equal to humans...
2. Do not use poison.
3. Do not accept help from non-combatants.
Buffing-up would basically be the same as using superior numbers
4. Do not fight against unprepared opponents.
No ambushes against enemies warranting honourable combat
5. Do not resort to weapons providing a clear and unfair advantage to you or considered inherently unchivalrous.
No archery against melee enemies incapable of reaching you
6. Do not use magical equipment in pure duels of honour.
It's a fight between you and your opponent, not between your cool gear.
7. Accept an honourable surrender. If you are in a position that renders enemies unable to ask for it, use nonlethal weapons.
This especially counts in situations in which higher commandments prohibit an honourable fight, e.g. you've got to knock out a good guy real fast in order to get to the bbeg when before he executes his evil master plan. [I]
Pegasos989
05-13-06, 07:22 AM I have actually been thinking of writing down the paladin's code myself too.

I think that these are nice ones, tho I do have a few comments:

1) Order of these.
Obeying the church is above fighting/conversing evil. What if church itself is corrupted by evil?

2) Conflicts.
What if protecting the innocent depends on breaking many rules of honourable combat?

Sure, the first won't propably happen but these are to avoid exactly those unclear situations...
The second might happen more often.

Tho it may seem that the answers are obivous, these might be still noted toa void those arguments.

Anyways, without these minor details, I like that code.
Dei
05-13-06, 09:32 AM You make a very interesting point Pegasus in mentioning the conflicts, organised religion is often rife with corruption (I don't mean any offence by this) just like any big organisation will be. In the game I play in most paladins tend to use a spirit rather than letter of the law approach.

1- Obey your God in all things and honour his servants who are greater in his sight than thyself. (i.e. obey the church but only if it those within it are still holy, takes care of the conflict problem)

2- Depending on where your God's concern lies smite evil/ see justice done always/ protect the innocent

3- The second most important of those functions mentioned above according to your diety

4- The third most important of those mentioned above according to your deity.

5- Act honourably to all people, even in combat but remember always that your over-riding duty is (whatever was set down as 2, 3 and 4 respectively). The rules you set down for fighting honourably were pretty spiffy and really fit with the whole Paladin mindset. You might want to add in a clause stating that if the Cleric of Bane refuses to take off his +5 unholy full plate or put down his minor artifact sword of impaling good guys and fight you with mundane equipment in a duel you don't need to put down your +5 Holy Avenger either.

6-Redeem Evil wherever it can be done, nothing hurts the enemy worse than desertion nor aids our cause more.

7- Seek to preserve your own life so that you may continue to serve God. (You could expand this a little to make it clear that laying down your life in a futile attempt to uphold the commandments would not count as cowardice. Afterall, if joining a fight would not save any innocents nor see any evil smoten but would still see you dead your God's not exactly been well served.)
aleshandre
05-13-06, 10:21 AM I have found that generally speaking, paladin codes (including the ones here) tend to follow one of 2 paths. They are either too wordy or not wordy enough. There should be 2 sets of overlapping codes really, to prevent confusion. The first should be patterned after the simplicity of the 10 commandments. i.e. worship your god, honor your elders, do good, etc. The second should be the paladin's personal interpretation of what that means and should be meaningful to any who read it as seeing it to be the better pattern to follow. e.g. One god alone holds my loyalty and gives me power (s)he alone will I serve above all others. So long as my elders obey [insert deity here], I will obey them as his/her voice. I will give as much of my substance and ability to the needy as is required even at personal sacrifice.

The specifics of what the code lists isn't important. The important thing is that the basic code lists the god's criteria for paladins obedience and the paladin's personal code should supercede that. In other words, by obeying his own code instead of his god's code, the paladin is surpassing what his god requires.
Tiran
05-13-06, 07:53 PM Does the honorable fight thing (no buffing, no magic items in duels) apply when the opponent is doing it?
Cifer
05-14-06, 02:07 PM @Pegasos
Obeying the church is above fighting/conversing evil. What if church itself is corrupted by evil?
That is why obeying the god is above the church, but you are right... depending on who wrote the code (whether it was the church which wanted to have more control over its paladins or the god himself) this might have to be changed.

What if protecting the innocent depends on breaking many rules of honourable combat?
The whole honourable combat is basically an explanation of comandment 5. Number 2 supercedes 5, if it has to.

Tho it may seem that the answers are obivous, these might be still noted toa void those arguments.
I agree. Clarifying the nebulous code of conduct was the whole point of writing it down.

@Tiran
Does the honorable fight thing (no buffing, no magic items in duels) apply when the opponent is doing it?
He does not fight dishonourably against those which would not fight dishonourably against him.
No magic items applies only in "real" duels with set rules in which the opponent should also leave them out. It would be rather silly if the paladin finds an "honourable" enemy when not expecting one and has to undress before fighting him.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cifer 05-12-06, 05:34 PM	Hiho everyone! For my new paladin, I developed a code of honor in order to avoid the messy "You just fell"-"I didn't!"-"Did!"-"Didn't!". Please critique and look whether I have missed something important. Explanations: While the rules of honourable combat are equal in ranking, the seven commandments are superceding each other, the first being the most important. In cases where not all commandments can be achieved, the paladin should try to go for the highest ones. The seven commandments of Heironeous 1. Obey the god Heironeous is the paladin's highest god. All have to answer to him. The paladin does not use forces supernaturally tainted by those who stand against Heironeous. Those should be relatively clear. No blaspheiming against the big H and no carrying of unholy swords. 2. Protect the Innocent Heironeous charges are those without guilt. The paladin's charges are those without known guilt. Although the lives of many are more important than the lives of few, the paladin strifes to protect all. Basically standard paladin duty 3. Obey the church The paladin obeys his superiors, as the church is the voice of Heironeous. He justly commands those beneath him. 4. Fight the active evils The paladin fights all that which Heironeous judges as unjust or evil. That which is judged by the paladin as unjust or evil, he brings to the council of the church or a court of law blessed by one of those Heironeous considers allies in order to listen to the judgement of Heironeous. Only when he sees no other opportunity, the paladin judges in the stead of Heironeous, although the undead, the aberrant and the fiendish shall always be subjected to the righteous wrath of the paladin if he does not find extraordinary circumstances for granting mercy. The paladin has other ways of fighting than his arms. Trying to ensure no detect-thumpings and bringing some medium grounds between Judge Dread and Can't-do-anything. 5. Honour The paladin always acts with at least the honour appropriate to others. He does not fight dishonourably against those which would not fight dishonourably against him. He observes etiquette and is courteous at all times. He neither speaks an untrue word nor omits a true one. A code of honour should contain that word. While honouring a fiend would probably lead to a dead paladin, that should not grant carte blanche against any opponent. Also, I hate thinking along the lines "I'm not actually lying when I'm omitting vital facts" for maintaining a code. That should be reserved for rogues in a zone of truth. 6. Conversion of evil The paladin tries to convert those whose thinking is an abomination to Heironeous. Alternative to killing evil stuff, yet low-ranking enough that the paladin does not have to convert every single selfish innkeeper when he has to save the world by next monday. 7. Protection of own life The paladin does not cast aside his life easily. It's always easy to go down in a blaze of glory. Honourable combat: 1. Do not fight with superior numbers against an opponent whose kind is not obviously superior to your's. Storm giants and others of their kind are not really equal to humans... 2. Do not use poison. 3. Do not accept help from non-combatants. Buffing-up would basically be the same as using superior numbers 4. Do not fight against unprepared opponents. No ambushes against enemies warranting honourable combat 5. Do not resort to weapons providing a clear and unfair advantage to you or considered inherently unchivalrous. No archery against melee enemies incapable of reaching you 6. Do not use magical equipment in pure duels of honour. It's a fight between you and your opponent, not between your cool gear. 7. Accept an honourable surrender. If you are in a position that renders enemies unable to ask for it, use nonlethal weapons. This especially counts in situations in which higher commandments prohibit an honourable fight, e.g. you've got to knock out a good guy real fast in order to get to the bbeg when before he executes his evil master plan. [I]
Pegasos989 05-13-06, 07:22 AM	I have actually been thinking of writing down the paladin's code myself too. I think that these are nice ones, tho I do have a few comments: 1) Order of these. Obeying the church is above fighting/conversing evil. What if church itself is corrupted by evil? 2) Conflicts. What if protecting the innocent depends on breaking many rules of honourable combat? Sure, the first won't propably happen but these are to avoid exactly those unclear situations... The second might happen more often. Tho it may seem that the answers are obivous, these might be still noted toa void those arguments. Anyways, without these minor details, I like that code.
Dei 05-13-06, 09:32 AM	You make a very interesting point Pegasus in mentioning the conflicts, organised religion is often rife with corruption (I don't mean any offence by this) just like any big organisation will be. In the game I play in most paladins tend to use a spirit rather than letter of the law approach. 1- Obey your God in all things and honour his servants who are greater in his sight than thyself. (i.e. obey the church but only if it those within it are still holy, takes care of the conflict problem) 2- Depending on where your God's concern lies smite evil/ see justice done always/ protect the innocent 3- The second most important of those functions mentioned above according to your diety 4- The third most important of those mentioned above according to your deity. 5- Act honourably to all people, even in combat but remember always that your over-riding duty is (whatever was set down as 2, 3 and 4 respectively). The rules you set down for fighting honourably were pretty spiffy and really fit with the whole Paladin mindset. You might want to add in a clause stating that if the Cleric of Bane refuses to take off his +5 unholy full plate or put down his minor artifact sword of impaling good guys and fight you with mundane equipment in a duel you don't need to put down your +5 Holy Avenger either. 6-Redeem Evil wherever it can be done, nothing hurts the enemy worse than desertion nor aids our cause more. 7- Seek to preserve your own life so that you may continue to serve God. (You could expand this a little to make it clear that laying down your life in a futile attempt to uphold the commandments would not count as cowardice. Afterall, if joining a fight would not save any innocents nor see any evil smoten but would still see you dead your God's not exactly been well served.)
aleshandre 05-13-06, 10:21 AM	I have found that generally speaking, paladin codes (including the ones here) tend to follow one of 2 paths. They are either too wordy or not wordy enough. There should be 2 sets of overlapping codes really, to prevent confusion. The first should be patterned after the simplicity of the 10 commandments. i.e. worship your god, honor your elders, do good, etc. The second should be the paladin's personal interpretation of what that means and should be meaningful to any who read it as seeing it to be the better pattern to follow. e.g. One god alone holds my loyalty and gives me power (s)he alone will I serve above all others. So long as my elders obey [insert deity here], I will obey them as his/her voice. I will give as much of my substance and ability to the needy as is required even at personal sacrifice. The specifics of what the code lists isn't important. The important thing is that the basic code lists the god's criteria for paladins obedience and the paladin's personal code should supercede that. In other words, by obeying his own code instead of his god's code, the paladin is surpassing what his god requires.
Tiran 05-13-06, 07:53 PM	Does the honorable fight thing (no buffing, no magic items in duels) apply when the opponent is doing it?
Cifer 05-14-06, 02:07 PM	@Pegasos Obeying the church is above fighting/conversing evil. What if church itself is corrupted by evil? That is why obeying the god is above the church, but you are right... depending on who wrote the code (whether it was the church which wanted to have more control over its paladins or the god himself) this might have to be changed. What if protecting the innocent depends on breaking many rules of honourable combat? The whole honourable combat is basically an explanation of comandment 5. Number 2 supercedes 5, if it has to. Tho it may seem that the answers are obivous, these might be still noted toa void those arguments. I agree. Clarifying the nebulous code of conduct was the whole point of writing it down. @Tiran Does the honorable fight thing (no buffing, no magic items in duels) apply when the opponent is doing it? He does not fight dishonourably against those which would not fight dishonourably against him. No magic items applies only in "real" duels with set rules in which the opponent should also leave them out. It would be rather silly if the paladin finds an "honourable" enemy when not expecting one and has to undress before fighting him.