Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Serric Ral 11-10-03, 07:29 PM	Ally (my PC) is in a difficult situation again. Last session, her current husband, Lazero (NPC) killed a friend of hers, ‘The Cleric’ (PC), out of anger after the Cleric repeatedly attacked him by throwing his trident at him. Let me clarify the situation further… For as long as I can remember, Lazero and the Cleric have been at odds with one another. In the beginning the Cleric was the one provoking the hostilities, as he was trying to protect Ally from Lazero (Lazero was all over Ally, and Lazero was married). At one point they got into a fight in Lazero’s home and generally wreaked havoc in his living room. At another point he exposed Lazero’s affair with Ally to his wife. In the end, Ally and Lazero ran off together, and the Cleric ironically even ‘performed’ (he wasn’t licensed) a marriage ceremony for them. While in the Cleric’s hometown, Lazero hit on his wife excessively and just generally tried to tick the Cleric off to get back at all the times the Cleric had annoyed him. The Cleric, of course, took deep offense to this. Ally was oblivious to the deep seeded hatred that they were building up to. Well, last session is when things went to heck. First, Lazero took the Cleric’s horse and claimed it as his own. Rather than taking a more sensible non-violent course of action, he proceeded to throw his trident at him, struck him with it, and knocked him off the horse. On the second occasion, Lazero was calling the Cleric a wuss for not wanting to go into a possible trap. After the Cleric tried to convince Lazero that it would be a good idea for at least one person to stay behind just incase something happened to the party, Lazero continued to call him a wuss. Well apparently the Cleric was tired of Lazero’s abuse and decided that it would be a ‘good idea’ to throw his trident again. This was the last straw for Lazero, who was rightfully (in my opinion) tired of the Cleric’s constant physical retaliation against him and attacked back. It did not take long for Lazero to draw a weapon and the fight escalated. The group Ranger (PC) and I tried to talk them down/disable one of them, but in the end… Well, the Cleric gave up when the Ranger told them to stop, however Lazero didn’t, and took the opportunity to finish him off. So now I’m in a very unusual position. I feel responsible for the death of the Cleric, and as a result plan to give as much as possible in reparations to the Cleric’s wife. Of course I wont tell her that my husband killed him, I will make something up… I’m not so much worried about the Cleric’s wife as I am Lazero himself. I feel as though he betrayed me by killing my friend. What makes it worse is that the Cleric was married. Ally knows first hand what it is like to lose someone you love with all your heart (she lost her fiancé, Jamie (NPC) to some sort of creature) and now her husband has done something similar reminding her of the massive depression she went through after his death. So now, on top of the event itself being unsettling, she has painful memories resurfacing adding to the pool of anguish. How should I deal with Lazero? On one hand she loves him beyond all measure, on the other hand she can never forgive him for killing the Cleric like he did. The two sides are clashing and I’m not sure who should win out. As a side note, Ally loves all of her friends almost as much as she loves Lazero, so the death of a friend is a pretty significant drain on her. She is willing to put herself in significant danger to risk the rescue of a friend and has done so before. She has lost several friends before, so this is far from the second time that she has experienced the death of a ‘loved one.’ A rather important thing to add: on top of this, right now Lazero's brother is trying to kill him and is tracking him down. Before the first fight with him, he said something about Lazero being responcible for the deaths of hundreds or something. What truth there is to this I have yet to find out.
Haradim 11-10-03, 10:29 PM	There doesn't seem to be a whole lot you can do. You can either side with your husband, or defend a dead person who had previously attacked said husband. It seems unlikely that Lazero will feel any remorse for what happened, save for some degree of pity for you, maybe. And it is also unlikely that he will concede that he was in the wrong, if indeed he was. The rest of the party may be a different story, perhaps directing anger towards the two of you, particularly if you side with Lazero over a friend of the party (husband or no; they aren't married to him....are they? :P). If reactions really boil over, the Cleric may not be the only one throwing pointy objects at people... IMO, you will ultimately have to choose which relationship means more to you; the one you had with the Cleric, or the one you have with Lazero. Once you know that, you will know which side to stand on should you be forced to choose your loyalties. But of course, either route may mean more lost loved ones...through parting or further death. However, I know next to nothing about any of the characters, and I am hardly a psychologist or anything, so I have no idea what I'm talking about here.
Trydan 11-11-03, 03:35 AM	Hmm... I've obviously been away for a while. So, Ally ended up marrying Lazero? Tut, tut. She should know better, and now is getting the rewards of such folly. Still, if she married him, then she is obliged to be loyal to him. forsaking all others implies putting aside friends in preference to the spouse. Of course, if the spouse is commiting acts of gross evil, then "turning them in" (for their own good, as well as that of society) can also be regarded as an act of love. However, I don't see Lazero committing gross acts of evil. He was attacked on numerous occasions, and provoked beyond the limits of reasonable restraint. On the other hand, Lazero's marriage is meaningless. You see, he promised his first wife similar things (loyalty, faithfulness, etc.), and then ignored them. Thus his second promise (this time to Ally) holds no weight whatsoever. In my opinion, for what it is worth, Ally should remain loyal to Lazero. She certainly shouldn't feel guilty for the death of the Cleric - that's you, the player, that is bringing that guilt out. However, if Ally is a compasionate soul, which is sounds like she is, then she would give to the grieving Cleric's widow - consolation and condolences, if not gold.
Morka 11-11-03, 10:08 AM	So Ally put her in troubles again? One thing needs some clarification: is Lazero a PC or an NPC? I will diverge a from Trydan. I think Lazero is a liar for cheating his first wife with Ally, a thief to have take the Cleric's horse and a boor to have called the Cleric a wuss for being suspicious. And he has no honour to have killed the Cleric while he lowered his guard. I think the only fault of the Cleric is to miss some diplomacy to explain in words his distrust of Lazero. IMHO, Ally should at least sulk Lazero. I admit she is in love with Lazero, but if any character remember her all what I just detailed about Lazero, she might even reconsider her marriage with him.
Ace Spade 11-11-03, 12:49 PM	I agree with Morka in a lot of respects. I think that Lazero is not trustworthy and he has shown it many times. One, he left his first wife. Two, he flirted with her again to rile some guy that he has a grudge against. He was setting up a trap for the Cleric, provoked the Cleric (who apparently reacts violently and Lazero knows this full well from the first time) into attacking and then finished off the job when his own wife begged him to not kill him. The fact that his brother is looking for him because he has killed hundreds before seems to be a possibility with the way he killed the Cleric over the fact that the Cleric wouldn't fall for a trap. All this adds up to say that the guy is no good. For your character, it's up to you, but I see two possibilities which would be that she gets her husband arrested for his own good or at least confront him and get him to explain himself and take it from there.
aleshandre 11-11-03, 01:12 PM	Is Ally aware that the "marriage" ceremony was not a binding one? If so, the she has no legal committment to Lazero and can allow her feelings for her freinds sway her. no matter what her decision, there is no satisfactory outcome, so ultimately, she needs to decide, or the decision will be made for her.
Serric Ral 11-11-03, 01:51 PM	Morka: Lazero is an NPC. The Cleric never really trusted Lazero, and many times he saw him taking advantage of Ally while she was drunk, but despite this he never told Ally any of the things that he had done, which I feel is a shame that Ally didn't know about the ‘other side’ of him. The most he ever did was tell her his conclusions of him without offering any evidence to prove it true. The Cleric also tried diplomacy on Lazero twice, but both times he got under 5 and Lazero was already unfriendly to him… At least both times it ended well enough. aleshandre: Ally was made aware of the fact that the marriage was illegitimate by the Cleric just after he realized that he was not sanctioned to perform such ceremonies. She was wanting to get a real marriage at some point when it was convenient. I plan to force him to tell me at the very least about his past. I have a feeling that he wont divulge any information, though, without significant pushing. Hopefully he will tell me. If he doesn’t I plan to try and guilt trip him into telling me. Also, when I get back to the Cleric’s hometown I plan on giving my share of the last adventure’s reward (50 platinum) to her and say that it was the Cleric’s share - which will yet again make me flat broke… I also plan to give her the Cleric’s holy symbol, which Lazero stole just after killing him. I will steal it back while he is sleeping. I was wondering if I should try to also give some of Lazero’s share of the treasure to her as well. One thing I realized, though, is that the Cleric’s wife already doesn’t trust me. When we were in his home, he gave Ally some of his wine, which she proceeded to overindulge herself in. Even though she was drunk, the Cleric forced her to come out with everyone else to dinner at which she made a fool out of herself by hanging all over him and repeating his name over and over. I’m sure that she will be just fine with me telling her that I had nothing to do with the death of her husband…
Trydan 11-12-03, 03:06 AM	Hmm... my sympathy for Ally is dwindling. She sounds like a fickle, flirting alcoholic! I wonder what other misdemeanours she has perpertrated? Just out of interest, I'm sure you've mentioned it before, but what was Ally's alignment. From these latest reports, it sounds like CN.
Serric Ral 11-12-03, 01:53 PM	An Important Note About Lazero’s Wife: as far as I can tell they were only married for a trade treaty. This is why Ally doesn’t feel so bad about taking him away from her. On the sheet it says CG, however she winds up being CN most of the time. She does 'evil' things, but then tries very hard to make up for any harm that she has caused by doing good acts. Very CN, but I would consider her CG in spirit, as she never does selfish things on purpose. On the bright side of her wine addiction, at least she usually only drinks at night occasionally… Which I suppose is a good thing for Lazero and a bad thing for Ally. Unfortunately when she does drink… She drinks a lot, and with 10 constitution, she doesn’t handle her alcohol very well. In terms of that particular situation, it really sounds worse than it was. Ally was hanging all over the Cleric because the Cleric was the one who was supporting her on the way out to eat. She was just ‘playing around.’ She would have apologized to the Cleric's wife for her actions, but she was unable to communicate with her because she spoke a different language. Now that she can speak her tongue, she can at least try to make up for past misdeeds. She was very annoyed at the Cleric for letting her out in that state (he even had the nerve to say ‘it was kind of funny’). Trust me when I say that Ally is a very sweet and innocent girl… So long as she isn’t drunk… Lazero has played a part in this too, as he will give her a whole bottle and let her down the whole thing without saying a word. There have been several cases where, while she was drunk, Lazero managed to get Ally to take her cloths off… but when he tried to get her to remove more than that, she had at least the wisdom to refuse. Of course, even when she did refuse, that didn’t stop Lazero from having his way anyways (not sexually as far as I know). One time, before they were ‘married,’ Ally had a little too much to drink before going to bed. When she woke up the next morning, she found herself being bathed by Lazero whom told her that she had thrown up on herself. Ally never investigated to see if she had actually thrown up or not and took his word for it. Even sooner than that, once again while she was drunk, they were out by the river with the Cleric. While Ally was drunk, Lazero was all over her. The Cleric got him to stop and wanted him to take me home… Without following right off the bat. He came home and found Lazero in bed with Ally. He told Lazero that he shouldn’t because he was married, Lazero told him to get lost. So… The Cleric got into bed with Lazero’s wife, whom was deeply annoyed. The Cleric directed her to Ally’s room and she found out. They were unable to speak the same language, but he got his point across. Ally doesn't remember any of the times while she was drunk.
Morka 11-12-03, 05:54 PM	Ally's alignment is chaotic, if the Lazero's first wife was just a trade treaty, it's normal that she don't care about her. However, she should be wanting some financial reparation for having this trade treaty broken. If Ally give her adventure reward and part of Lazero's adventure reward to the Cleric's wife, first Lazero's wife should be very upset! Another question: the Cleric was a PC, yes? Since he's dead, what the player is planning?
Serric Ral 11-12-03, 06:14 PM	Ally's alignment is chaotic, if the Lazero's first wife was just a trade treaty, it's normal that she don't care about her. However, she should be wanting some financial reparation for having this trade treaty broken. If Ally give her adventure reward and part of Lazero's adventure reward to the Cleric's wife, first Lazero's wife should be very upset! Well… The thing is Lazero had it arranged so that it would look like he was dead when he ran off with Ally, and on top of that we are on a different continent now, so as far as I know Lazero’s wife doesn’t know Lazero is even still alive. As for the player who’s cleric died, he first made a sorcerer, but he unfortunately opened his mouth at the wrong time, said the wrong things, and wound up dead the same session. Now he is a monk. Should be interesting to see how he reacts to the situation.
Dauntless 11-12-03, 11:27 PM	Out of curiousity, how are any other party members taking it? I see at least one other player mentioned (the ranger). Does he/she have an opinion on one party member's spouse killing another party member after the fight was effectively over?
Serric Ral 11-13-03, 01:20 PM	Out of curiousity, how are any other party members taking it? I see at least one other player mentioned (the ranger). Does he/she have an opinion on one party member's spouse killing another party member after the fight was effectively over? Apparently the ranger doesn't care. Keep in mind that he is neutral good, but he doesn’t seem to care all that much about murder in the party. Then again, the player that plays him is all about combat so it isn’t all that surprising that he would just forget about it. Out of game he even thanked the DM for killing the Cleric because he was ‘too whiny.’ The only other party members are Lazero and the Cleric's new character, a Monk that just joined, so he doesn't know about the murder. *Sigh* It seems that I’m the only one in the party who cares about any semblance of consistency even if it is inconvenient. Everyone else would be content to pretend like it never happened. Unfortunately I can’t do that. So now while everyone else doesn’t care, I have to pay the price for a PC’s stupidity. Edit: I’ve also decided something else, the Cleric tried to get me to stop drinking so much, I so think that in honor of his death, I will stop drinking any alcohol altogether (whether or not I keep this promise to the letter is very situation dependent, but no more excessive drinking).
Morka 11-14-03, 10:15 AM	Originally posted by Serric Ral Edit: I’ve also decided something else, the Cleric tried to get me to stop drinking so much, I so think that in honor of his death, I will stop drinking any alcohol altogether (whether or not I keep this promise to the letter is very situation dependent, but no more excessive drinking). I'm sure Lazero will be happy of this! :smirk:
Rogue_Jedi_99 11-25-03, 08:52 PM	This cleric and Lazero your husband??? sound like they both deserved what ever came to them. You have very little to do with this death however from what I've read. Lazero has somehow won your heart.(good girls, bad boys). You may have know about this bad blood before he started adventuring with you. If so, the only thing I think would make you responsibable is if you could have somehow actively changed the situation. Keep your money. Make Lazero pay if anybody. As for the other party member I don't know his/her backstory. Maybe he's used to death or lying on his character sheet or knows something about this character. Not all characters act the same to death.
Trydan 11-26-03, 01:55 AM	Just out of interest, is Ally a shortened form of some name (Allette, Alltina, or something), or is that it in full? Just curious...
Serric Ral 11-26-03, 11:43 AM	Ally is supposed to be short for Alicia (though I’m not sure if that is a very common shortening or not). She didn’t go back to even tell the Cleric’s wife about his death at the DM’s urging, so Ally kept her money, not that she needs it for anything but to randomly lose it to bandits or something. More stuff has happened… Lazero has left me after telling me that he “may or may not love me.” He says that he will return someday. He wanted to be honest with me and told me that I was the first person that he ever loved. He wanted to protect me from his psychopath brother who wants to kill him and is willing to harm me in the process. So now I’m all alone… Ally is really depressed right now, and it shows in character with how she has stopped talking. She has no friends in the party so she cant talk about it with anyone. This reminds me of when she lost her fiancé, only then she at least had Andy with her. I’m not sure how to bring her out of this depression when she has no one to share her feelings with. On a lighter note, she is planning her wedding for when Lazero returns, so they have a real one. Unfortunately the hardest part is figuring out how to have a wedding that no one will attend because A) they can’t get to where we are and B) no one where we are cares. I guess this goes back to how Ally has no friends here…