A REAL Illusionist [Archive] - Wizards Community

A REAL Illusionist [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Pizzini3000
03-18-07, 01:05 PM After watching the movie The Illusionist, I thought it would be amazing to create a character that was a mundane illusionist. using skills like alchemy, engineering and sleight of hand to create magic-like effects.

I'd assume that any true spellcaster would be able to easily say, "That's not magic," but it would be even better if they couldn't.

I've put together a list of skills that I think would be needed, in the order of importance (pretty much).

Skills:

Craft (Engineering) (to create mechanical marvels)
Craft (Alchemy) (to create chemicals that would create spectacular sights)
Perform (Act) (it's a show after-all)
Bluff (the whole thing is a lie)
Sleight of Hand (staple for an illusionist)
Use Rope (ropes+pulleys would help)
Hide (good for trying to disapear)
Move Silently (good for trying to disapear)
Rogue^
Escape Artist (some illusionists make a living just off of this skill)
Human^
Gather Information (being able to learn about the people's beliefs before the show starts would help alow.
12 int^
Disguise (if they recognize you asking about the town's history during the show, it will be ruined)
14 int^
Open Lock (May help with escaping)
16 int^
Craft(Poison) (what else could I use here instead?)
18 int^
CrimsonDeath
03-19-07, 02:48 AM Concentration (This is particularly good for an escape artist, so he can perform his escapes upside down in the dark underwater with fireworks in the stage next to him.)

Disable Device (Might be needed to get out of those "mechanical marvels" he made with Craft: Engineering, particularly if they happen to be death traps he's escaping from.)

Handle Animal (Pulling rabbits out of hats, doves out of sleeves, etc)

Knowledge: Architecture and Engineering (set design)

Knowledge: Nobility and Royalty (Find backers for a show.)

Sense Motive (Gauge the reaction of the crowd.)

Speak Language (Take your act on the road.)

Spellcraft (Could it be used to fake somatic components?)

Swim (If you ever want to try that trick underwater.)

And note that the same person doesn't necessarily need to have all these skills. Stagehands, assistants, or partners could do some of the things. Particularly, the person with the Crafts, Knowledges, and Gather Information doesn't necessarily ever need to step on stage.
Pizzini3000
03-19-07, 10:45 AM While I was reading the craft skill, I noticed it said I needed a caster level to be able to create those alchemy items. (alchemist's fire, acid and etc.) What do you guys think about that?

As for suggesting disable device, I was thinking that too, but I decided, if he's the guy who made it, couldn't he have either made it easy to disable for someone who already knows how it works? (they should just combine disable device into some engineering skill, so it makes sense)

Knowledge (nobility and royalty): that's my manager's job. =)

I don't want to fake somatic components. If it was realistic to the point where it fooled someone who could cast spells, then I might as well be a spell caster. But, what's the fun in that?

I'll think about swim and concentration... perhaps keeping my con up for holding breath, or the endurance feat, would help too.
Fithero
03-19-07, 11:04 AM In a world where magic *does* exist... does your character have a reason for not just learning actual spells?

Its kinda like someone pretending to be a fortune teller (tarrot, crystal ball, palm reading... whatever) and having no actual magical skill... when 3 blocks down there is a diviner who can do the stuff for real.

Im not raggin your idea, im thinking it sounds pretty cool. I just think youd need a good reason to fake it instead of doing the real thing.

Peace
Shawno
03-19-07, 12:31 PM In a world where magic *does* exist... does your character have a reason for not just learning actual spells?

Its kinda like someone pretending to be a fortune teller (tarrot, crystal ball, palm reading... whatever) and having no actual magical skill... when 3 blocks down there is a diviner who can do the stuff for real.

Im not raggin your idea, im thinking it sounds pretty cool. I just think youd need a good reason to fake it instead of doing the real thing.

Peace

Yeah this is pretty much where I am, too. In other systems, such as Gurps, one could simply not take any levels of Magery and you're in. In D&D, especially if you want the character to be intelligent, it's harder.

In the Forgotten Realms novel, The Crystal Shard, Salvatore gives us Akar Kessell -- a poor wreck of a soul who tries and tries to grasp magic, even with a capable mentor, only to have his attempts sputter at best, so there's that precedent, fwiw, though it feels a bit empty to me.

Maybe he wants to be able to do what he does in armor? Or maybe he is a mage is just having fun? Perhaps he's the roguish sort who's never been patient enough to deal with proper wizardry (maybe he's got one or two levels) but enjoys the art of this sort of impersonation? Ah, or maybe he's too devoted to some other class? Maybe he's a monk with a sense of humor? Or perhaps even a cleric with arcane envy?

Another potential problem is that if he succeeds in making people believe him to be a wizard, he might have other issues -- something like impersonating an officer (and/or someone coming around to see about guild fees).

Finally, here's a metaphor -- riding a bike to work. If you're close enough to work (say, even within an hour or so), it's a great option. Liken that to a rogue's "magic" of thunder stones, some sort of flash powder, good lock picks, etc. It sounds like what you're talking about, given that True Magic of various sorts is so accessible, you're talking about commuting several hours a day by bike -- it's just not so very practical and you'd have to be really hard-core.

As with Fithero, though, I do like the idea if you can come up with sufficient justification.

Good luck!
Doleth
03-19-07, 03:04 PM The thing about arcane caster is that you either need to have the raw talent, year of study, or make a deal with some obscure power that most of the time doesn't really care about your well-being. So a character just in it for fun and who doesn't want to waste years of his life just to be able to cast cantrip have good reason to not have level in a caster class(except maybe the bard). You could try to convince another player to play an uncharismatic wizard that work behind the scene with your "illusionist" who will complement your abilities with magic when it's a must and be your propmaster. For exemple, if you need a dangerous creature for a trick, he can polymorph himself into one so the trick will still look amazing but you wouldn't be at risk. If you're willing to stretch your concept a little bit, the wizard could be the one casting behing the stage while your character put up a good show. You could also take the use magic device skill for your rogue, it can be very useful.
Pizzini3000
03-20-07, 11:35 AM My main idea was that he grew up poor, without the opportunity to get actual magical training. That's why I have an alternate version that multiclasses into wizard.
tombowings
03-21-07, 12:07 AM Why not go bard for that version.
LosGunD
03-22-07, 12:36 AM I'd think the fact that a noncaster could do this would be incentive enough to give it a shot. After all, how incredibly useful could this be for Rogue characters?
The_Basilisk
03-22-07, 07:15 PM Reminds me of the wizard I play now. taking some inspiration from Raistlin Majere (only some!) My wizard has cross-class ranks in sleight of hand and perform (magic tricks). He uses actual sleight of hand mixed with prestidigitation to amuse the less magically inclined.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Pizzini3000 03-18-07, 01:05 PM	After watching the movie The Illusionist, I thought it would be amazing to create a character that was a mundane illusionist. using skills like alchemy, engineering and sleight of hand to create magic-like effects. I'd assume that any true spellcaster would be able to easily say, "That's not magic," but it would be even better if they couldn't. I've put together a list of skills that I think would be needed, in the order of importance (pretty much). Skills: Craft (Engineering) (to create mechanical marvels) Craft (Alchemy) (to create chemicals that would create spectacular sights) Perform (Act) (it's a show after-all) Bluff (the whole thing is a lie) Sleight of Hand (staple for an illusionist) Use Rope (ropes+pulleys would help) Hide (good for trying to disapear) Move Silently (good for trying to disapear) Rogue^ Escape Artist (some illusionists make a living just off of this skill) Human^ Gather Information (being able to learn about the people's beliefs before the show starts would help alow. 12 int^ Disguise (if they recognize you asking about the town's history during the show, it will be ruined) 14 int^ Open Lock (May help with escaping) 16 int^ Craft(Poison) (what else could I use here instead?) 18 int^
CrimsonDeath 03-19-07, 02:48 AM	Concentration (This is particularly good for an escape artist, so he can perform his escapes upside down in the dark underwater with fireworks in the stage next to him.) Disable Device (Might be needed to get out of those "mechanical marvels" he made with Craft: Engineering, particularly if they happen to be death traps he's escaping from.) Handle Animal (Pulling rabbits out of hats, doves out of sleeves, etc) Knowledge: Architecture and Engineering (set design) Knowledge: Nobility and Royalty (Find backers for a show.) Sense Motive (Gauge the reaction of the crowd.) Speak Language (Take your act on the road.) Spellcraft (Could it be used to fake somatic components?) Swim (If you ever want to try that trick underwater.) And note that the same person doesn't necessarily need to have all these skills. Stagehands, assistants, or partners could do some of the things. Particularly, the person with the Crafts, Knowledges, and Gather Information doesn't necessarily ever need to step on stage.
Pizzini3000 03-19-07, 10:45 AM	While I was reading the craft skill, I noticed it said I needed a caster level to be able to create those alchemy items. (alchemist's fire, acid and etc.) What do you guys think about that? As for suggesting disable device, I was thinking that too, but I decided, if he's the guy who made it, couldn't he have either made it easy to disable for someone who already knows how it works? (they should just combine disable device into some engineering skill, so it makes sense) Knowledge (nobility and royalty): that's my manager's job. =) I don't want to fake somatic components. If it was realistic to the point where it fooled someone who could cast spells, then I might as well be a spell caster. But, what's the fun in that? I'll think about swim and concentration... perhaps keeping my con up for holding breath, or the endurance feat, would help too.
Fithero 03-19-07, 11:04 AM	In a world where magic does exist... does your character have a reason for not just learning actual spells? Its kinda like someone pretending to be a fortune teller (tarrot, crystal ball, palm reading... whatever) and having no actual magical skill... when 3 blocks down there is a diviner who can do the stuff for real. Im not raggin your idea, im thinking it sounds pretty cool. I just think youd need a good reason to fake it instead of doing the real thing. Peace
Shawno 03-19-07, 12:31 PM	In a world where magic does exist... does your character have a reason for not just learning actual spells? Its kinda like someone pretending to be a fortune teller (tarrot, crystal ball, palm reading... whatever) and having no actual magical skill... when 3 blocks down there is a diviner who can do the stuff for real. Im not raggin your idea, im thinking it sounds pretty cool. I just think youd need a good reason to fake it instead of doing the real thing. Peace Yeah this is pretty much where I am, too. In other systems, such as Gurps, one could simply not take any levels of Magery and you're in. In D&D, especially if you want the character to be intelligent, it's harder. In the Forgotten Realms novel, The Crystal Shard, Salvatore gives us Akar Kessell -- a poor wreck of a soul who tries and tries to grasp magic, even with a capable mentor, only to have his attempts sputter at best, so there's that precedent, fwiw, though it feels a bit empty to me. Maybe he wants to be able to do what he does in armor? Or maybe he is a mage is just having fun? Perhaps he's the roguish sort who's never been patient enough to deal with proper wizardry (maybe he's got one or two levels) but enjoys the art of this sort of impersonation? Ah, or maybe he's too devoted to some other class? Maybe he's a monk with a sense of humor? Or perhaps even a cleric with arcane envy? Another potential problem is that if he succeeds in making people believe him to be a wizard, he might have other issues -- something like impersonating an officer (and/or someone coming around to see about guild fees). Finally, here's a metaphor -- riding a bike to work. If you're close enough to work (say, even within an hour or so), it's a great option. Liken that to a rogue's "magic" of thunder stones, some sort of flash powder, good lock picks, etc. It sounds like what you're talking about, given that True Magic of various sorts is so accessible, you're talking about commuting several hours a day by bike -- it's just not so very practical and you'd have to be really hard-core. As with Fithero, though, I do like the idea if you can come up with sufficient justification. Good luck!
Doleth 03-19-07, 03:04 PM	The thing about arcane caster is that you either need to have the raw talent, year of study, or make a deal with some obscure power that most of the time doesn't really care about your well-being. So a character just in it for fun and who doesn't want to waste years of his life just to be able to cast cantrip have good reason to not have level in a caster class(except maybe the bard). You could try to convince another player to play an uncharismatic wizard that work behind the scene with your "illusionist" who will complement your abilities with magic when it's a must and be your propmaster. For exemple, if you need a dangerous creature for a trick, he can polymorph himself into one so the trick will still look amazing but you wouldn't be at risk. If you're willing to stretch your concept a little bit, the wizard could be the one casting behing the stage while your character put up a good show. You could also take the use magic device skill for your rogue, it can be very useful.
Pizzini3000 03-20-07, 11:35 AM	My main idea was that he grew up poor, without the opportunity to get actual magical training. That's why I have an alternate version that multiclasses into wizard.
tombowings 03-21-07, 12:07 AM	Why not go bard for that version.
LosGunD 03-22-07, 12:36 AM	I'd think the fact that a noncaster could do this would be incentive enough to give it a shot. After all, how incredibly useful could this be for Rogue characters?
The_Basilisk 03-22-07, 07:15 PM	Reminds me of the wizard I play now. taking some inspiration from Raistlin Majere (only some!) My wizard has cross-class ranks in sleight of hand and perform (magic tricks). He uses actual sleight of hand mixed with prestidigitation to amuse the less magically inclined.