A Sorcerer and a Scholar? [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Sorcerer and a Scholar? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ericSHINRA
09-17-06, 08:57 PM Ok, so I've been unable to decide between the Sorcerer and Wizard classes for my next PC and I come here for help in figuring out which I should use. I actually hope to end up as a Loremaster as my DM is going to do away with the 'Any three metamagic or item creation feats' requirement.
Also~ I'll most likely have all the Knowledge skills as Class Skills in exchange for the Sorcerer's Simple Weaponry if I choose that class.

Note: I don't want this to become an arguement over which class is better.
I like the Wizard for his increased number of spells but not for his having to Prepare said spells and I like the Sorcerer class for his higher number of spells per day and the flavor of this class.

Now, I'm going to be playing an arcane spellcaster in his late teens(18-19 years old) currently attending a school/academy generally for Wizards.

If I play a Wizard he will have managed to attend the academy through his friendship to another of the PC's, a Kinight from a noble house. The Knight's younger sister attends the academy too, and the are currently at the start of the campaign a couple.

If I play a Sorcerer, my character was discovered by a Wizard from the academy who promised he'd be able to help him control and harness his powers in exchange for studying where his magic comes from. Also, when he was younger he found a runaway girl from the family of nobles I mentioned above and convinced her she should return home and such. His use of magic to cheer her up however, convinced her she wanted to study magic which explains why she is attending the school when she's older.

Regardless of which class I choose, my PC and the Knight's sister become a couple as they grow older and I want to play a character who isn't liked by everyone at the Academy or even society as a whole due to his status.

Anyway~ I'll most likely have all the Knowledge skills as Class Skills in exchange for the Sorcerer's Simple Weaponry if I choose that class.

What I'm trying to figure out is whether or not a Sorcerer character could pass for a Scholar or If I'm better off playing a Wizard.
JulesCARV
09-17-06, 10:16 PM I have some ideas. If this isn't what you're going for, go ahead and ignore them, but here they are for what they're worth:

1. Be a psion (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicPsion.html) (Expanded Psionics Handbook) instead of a sorcerer. Similar casting-without-preparation (although really, manifesting without preparation). You cast based on intelligence, not charisma, so you'll have lots of skill points, and you get all knowledge skills as class skills.

2. Be a bard/sublime chord (Complete Arcane). Since bards have lots of skill points and all knowledge skills as class skills, you'll do okay, and after 11th level, your casting progression will only be one behind that of a sorcerer. Of course, the high skill prerequisites of the sublime chord mean that, ultimately, your free skill points will only be four ahead of a sorcerer's. (78 skill points - 48 Sublime Chord prerequisites vs. 26 skill points) After level 11, you'll have two extra skill points per level. Also, in the prerequisites themselves, you'll get a fairly scholarly 13 ranks in knowledge (arcana), but of course sorcerers get that anyway. In addition, you'll have full bardic knowledge, which is pseudo-scholarly knowledge of pretty much everything.

3. Take the Education feat. It's from Eberron, and gives all knowledge skills as class skills, and a +1 bonus to two of them.

4. Go into a prestige class that grants all knowledge skills as class skills. Mage of the Arcane Order (Complete Arcane) is good. You have to take arcane preparation, cooperative spell, and one other metamagic feat to get in, but you get two metamagic feats out of it, as well as awesome spellpool powers.
ericSHINRA
09-17-06, 10:36 PM Thanks for replying.

1. I'd have to read up a bit on the Psion and while it does seem to be a cool class, I'm not sure it was really what I had in mind.

2. I did toy with the idea of playing a Bard(I love Bardic Knowledge) I had wanted to play a straight caster and I'm having some trouble picturing him belonging to a Wizard's School/Adacemy. Then again, I know he'll be asked in the recent future(first session) to begin studying and documenting the 'monsters' or at least monstrous humanoids and the like for the School/Academy and that seems like a perfect task for a Bard... Even if it is as 'punishment'.

3. The Education Feat is cool too, only I'll have to ask my DM, since it's from Eberron...

4. Mage of the Arcane Order, huh? I'll look into it.

I'm still debating what I want to do but you gave me some stuff to think about, thanks.
dvlsadvct
09-18-06, 12:02 PM Based solely on flavor I would have to choose Sorc. Why? You stated that you did not want to be well liked in the Wizard school. What better way to be disliked than to not belong there but to have the blessing of one of the teachers? I agree with Jules in that Mage of the Arcane Order (CA) is a PrC that deserves looking into. It would fit well into your story.

You do however, have a couple nasty problems. First of all you cast from CHA, so no skill points for you unless you dump another stat (most likely DEX or CON). Secondly, no matter how hard you study at this school you will not be able to learn anything faster than your level progression allows, unlike a Wizard. This may or may not be a problem for you contexually. If you like to intertwine that with MotAO as listed above it would make for a decent explanation as to how you got into a Wizard PrC as a spontaneous caster. I suppose you could get the same effect with Loremaster. To further clarify that I am trying to make a connection between spending all this time at an academy for Wizards as a Sorc and actually learning something. Follow?
Sikyanakotik
09-18-06, 05:07 PM I'd say sorcerer too, if only because you clearly seem to be leaning that way yourself. The PHB2 variant sorcerer, which allows you to use metamagic feats without increased casting time, would be an excellent choice to reflect the formal training the wizard's school provided, and also helps you qualify for Loremaster without your DM's intervention.
ericSHINRA
09-18-06, 06:49 PM Thanks for all the ideas everyone.

At this point though... as much as I'd love to play a Sorcerer I think I'll be playing a Bard. How I hope to explain this is that the Academy I mentioned earlier is more of a general place of study where some students study to become Wizards and perhaps there is a small offshoot for Bardic study.

My reason for doing this is that the Bard has all the Knowledge Skills as Class Skills and a few other bonuses(Bardic Knowledge and such. I wanted him to be chaotic and charismatic in nature but also rather smart so I think the Bard is the best choice. Maybe I can use the Unearthed Arcana Bardic Sage variant.

Besides, I see him being a bit of a troublemaker but and it was through the Knight PC's intervention I came to recieve my education so perhaps he just decided to 'study' as Bard in place of as a Wizard.
Zuj
09-19-06, 03:21 PM You could even do away with the "studying to be a bard" aspect, and just say his talents don't lie as far into arcane magic as was originally believed. He could say he's a wizard or sorcerer, and even be treated like one, but in actuality he'd have the bard class.

The other students might snub their noses at him due to his lack of arcane power and experience, but his unorthodox methods (bard casting), uncanny breadth of knowledge (bardic knowledge), and plethora of other skills might afford him some respect. He might see more importance in learning a little about everything, rather than locking himself up in a dusty tower hoarding arcane secrets.
ericSHINRA
09-19-06, 05:08 PM You could even do away with the "studying to be a bard" aspect, and just say his talents don't lie as far into arcane magic as was originally believed. He could say he's a wizard or sorcerer, and even be treated like one, but in actuality he'd have the bard class.

The other students might snub their noses at him due to his lack of arcane power and experience, but his unorthodox methods (bard casting), uncanny breadth of knowledge (bardic knowledge), and plethora of other skills might afford him some respect. He might see more importance in learning a little about everything, rather than locking himself up in a dusty tower hoarding arcane secrets.

Wow, Zuj...that's perfect. Really.

I think that's what I've been looking for all alone. He could very well say he's a 'Wizard' but then again he can cast a bit of everything (even healing spells) save evocations and necromancy so he'd have some explaining to do but that just makes it even better. I wanted a caster, me thinks who focuses less on the arcane and more on knowledge and his relationship with the Knight could even explain some of his simple combat training.

Thanks!:D
Zuj
09-20-06, 02:43 PM No problem. He sounds like he'll be a pretty fun character to play. :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ericSHINRA 09-17-06, 08:57 PM	Ok, so I've been unable to decide between the Sorcerer and Wizard classes for my next PC and I come here for help in figuring out which I should use. I actually hope to end up as a Loremaster as my DM is going to do away with the 'Any three metamagic or item creation feats' requirement. Also~ I'll most likely have all the Knowledge skills as Class Skills in exchange for the Sorcerer's Simple Weaponry if I choose that class. Note: I don't want this to become an arguement over which class is better. I like the Wizard for his increased number of spells but not for his having to Prepare said spells and I like the Sorcerer class for his higher number of spells per day and the flavor of this class. Now, I'm going to be playing an arcane spellcaster in his late teens(18-19 years old) currently attending a school/academy generally for Wizards. If I play a Wizard he will have managed to attend the academy through his friendship to another of the PC's, a Kinight from a noble house. The Knight's younger sister attends the academy too, and the are currently at the start of the campaign a couple. If I play a Sorcerer, my character was discovered by a Wizard from the academy who promised he'd be able to help him control and harness his powers in exchange for studying where his magic comes from. Also, when he was younger he found a runaway girl from the family of nobles I mentioned above and convinced her she should return home and such. His use of magic to cheer her up however, convinced her she wanted to study magic which explains why she is attending the school when she's older. Regardless of which class I choose, my PC and the Knight's sister become a couple as they grow older and I want to play a character who isn't liked by everyone at the Academy or even society as a whole due to his status. Anyway~ I'll most likely have all the Knowledge skills as Class Skills in exchange for the Sorcerer's Simple Weaponry if I choose that class. What I'm trying to figure out is whether or not a Sorcerer character could pass for a Scholar or If I'm better off playing a Wizard.
JulesCARV 09-17-06, 10:16 PM	I have some ideas. If this isn't what you're going for, go ahead and ignore them, but here they are for what they're worth: 1. Be a psion (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicPsion.html) (Expanded Psionics Handbook) instead of a sorcerer. Similar casting-without-preparation (although really, manifesting without preparation). You cast based on intelligence, not charisma, so you'll have lots of skill points, and you get all knowledge skills as class skills. 2. Be a bard/sublime chord (Complete Arcane). Since bards have lots of skill points and all knowledge skills as class skills, you'll do okay, and after 11th level, your casting progression will only be one behind that of a sorcerer. Of course, the high skill prerequisites of the sublime chord mean that, ultimately, your free skill points will only be four ahead of a sorcerer's. (78 skill points - 48 Sublime Chord prerequisites vs. 26 skill points) After level 11, you'll have two extra skill points per level. Also, in the prerequisites themselves, you'll get a fairly scholarly 13 ranks in knowledge (arcana), but of course sorcerers get that anyway. In addition, you'll have full bardic knowledge, which is pseudo-scholarly knowledge of pretty much everything. 3. Take the Education feat. It's from Eberron, and gives all knowledge skills as class skills, and a +1 bonus to two of them. 4. Go into a prestige class that grants all knowledge skills as class skills. Mage of the Arcane Order (Complete Arcane) is good. You have to take arcane preparation, cooperative spell, and one other metamagic feat to get in, but you get two metamagic feats out of it, as well as awesome spellpool powers.
ericSHINRA 09-17-06, 10:36 PM	Thanks for replying. 1. I'd have to read up a bit on the Psion and while it does seem to be a cool class, I'm not sure it was really what I had in mind. 2. I did toy with the idea of playing a Bard(I love Bardic Knowledge) I had wanted to play a straight caster and I'm having some trouble picturing him belonging to a Wizard's School/Adacemy. Then again, I know he'll be asked in the recent future(first session) to begin studying and documenting the 'monsters' or at least monstrous humanoids and the like for the School/Academy and that seems like a perfect task for a Bard... Even if it is as 'punishment'. 3. The Education Feat is cool too, only I'll have to ask my DM, since it's from Eberron... 4. Mage of the Arcane Order, huh? I'll look into it. I'm still debating what I want to do but you gave me some stuff to think about, thanks.
dvlsadvct 09-18-06, 12:02 PM	Based solely on flavor I would have to choose Sorc. Why? You stated that you did not want to be well liked in the Wizard school. What better way to be disliked than to not belong there but to have the blessing of one of the teachers? I agree with Jules in that Mage of the Arcane Order (CA) is a PrC that deserves looking into. It would fit well into your story. You do however, have a couple nasty problems. First of all you cast from CHA, so no skill points for you unless you dump another stat (most likely DEX or CON). Secondly, no matter how hard you study at this school you will not be able to learn anything faster than your level progression allows, unlike a Wizard. This may or may not be a problem for you contexually. If you like to intertwine that with MotAO as listed above it would make for a decent explanation as to how you got into a Wizard PrC as a spontaneous caster. I suppose you could get the same effect with Loremaster. To further clarify that I am trying to make a connection between spending all this time at an academy for Wizards as a Sorc and actually learning something. Follow?
Sikyanakotik 09-18-06, 05:07 PM	I'd say sorcerer too, if only because you clearly seem to be leaning that way yourself. The PHB2 variant sorcerer, which allows you to use metamagic feats without increased casting time, would be an excellent choice to reflect the formal training the wizard's school provided, and also helps you qualify for Loremaster without your DM's intervention.
ericSHINRA 09-18-06, 06:49 PM	Thanks for all the ideas everyone. At this point though... as much as I'd love to play a Sorcerer I think I'll be playing a Bard. How I hope to explain this is that the Academy I mentioned earlier is more of a general place of study where some students study to become Wizards and perhaps there is a small offshoot for Bardic study. My reason for doing this is that the Bard has all the Knowledge Skills as Class Skills and a few other bonuses(Bardic Knowledge and such. I wanted him to be chaotic and charismatic in nature but also rather smart so I think the Bard is the best choice. Maybe I can use the Unearthed Arcana Bardic Sage variant. Besides, I see him being a bit of a troublemaker but and it was through the Knight PC's intervention I came to recieve my education so perhaps he just decided to 'study' as Bard in place of as a Wizard.
Zuj 09-19-06, 03:21 PM	You could even do away with the "studying to be a bard" aspect, and just say his talents don't lie as far into arcane magic as was originally believed. He could say he's a wizard or sorcerer, and even be treated like one, but in actuality he'd have the bard class. The other students might snub their noses at him due to his lack of arcane power and experience, but his unorthodox methods (bard casting), uncanny breadth of knowledge (bardic knowledge), and plethora of other skills might afford him some respect. He might see more importance in learning a little about everything, rather than locking himself up in a dusty tower hoarding arcane secrets.
ericSHINRA 09-19-06, 05:08 PM	You could even do away with the "studying to be a bard" aspect, and just say his talents don't lie as far into arcane magic as was originally believed. He could say he's a wizard or sorcerer, and even be treated like one, but in actuality he'd have the bard class. The other students might snub their noses at him due to his lack of arcane power and experience, but his unorthodox methods (bard casting), uncanny breadth of knowledge (bardic knowledge), and plethora of other skills might afford him some respect. He might see more importance in learning a little about everything, rather than locking himself up in a dusty tower hoarding arcane secrets. Wow, Zuj...that's perfect. Really. I think that's what I've been looking for all alone. He could very well say he's a 'Wizard' but then again he can cast a bit of everything (even healing spells) save evocations and necromancy so he'd have some explaining to do but that just makes it even better. I wanted a caster, me thinks who focuses less on the arcane and more on knowledge and his relationship with the Knight could even explain some of his simple combat training. Thanks!:D
Zuj 09-20-06, 02:43 PM	No problem. He sounds like he'll be a pretty fun character to play. :)