Alignment question for an... unusual swashbuckler [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alignment question for an... unusual swashbuckler [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
jukar
04-08-05, 12:45 AM I'm having a little trouble coming up with an alignment for my newest PC. She's being made for a 3.5 campaign.

The PC's name is Cais Maddox, a level 1 human swashbuckler. Cais is female, but this knowledge is hidden from her companions- only the DM and myself (as the player) have this information. She dresses as a man and acts (for the most part, believably) like a man, and is able to convince even her own companions that she is, in fact, male.

Now, there are a variety of reasons that she dresses and acts this way, but there are a variety of reasons that she doesn't. She's not a transgender character, she doesn't identify as a man psychologically like a transgendered person would. In fact, until she began adventuring a short time ago, she lived and dressed as a normal young woman, and had a very close and happy relationship with a man. Her lover, Renard, had lofty ambitions to change the world around him, bordering on being somewhat revolutionary. Renard was a writer, and he made his ideals by penning a series of manifestos while using the pen name the White King.

However, these manifestos made the mistake of ridiculing specific public figures. The socially elite of several cities, afraid that the words of this mysterious but charismatic writer would lead to a socia uprising, acquired the services of a powerful and skillful assassin. This assassin eventually discovered the true identity of the White King, and killed him. Cais was deeply affected by this, and swore to help her love Renard realize his dreams, and to lead the oppressed to a happier life.

In an act of symbolism, she renounced her own feminimity and clad herself in her love's clothing, so that neither him nor his ideals would be forgotten. She adopted the persona of the White King, and began to travel the continent, punishing corrupt officials and wicked members of the upper class. But she knew that in order to truly make Renard's words a reality, she would need to rally support against her enemies and to find strong companions who would share her zeal.

However, I'm having a hard time figuring out what her alignment would be. She's obviously good, but the law/chaos axis is what stumps me. She has a strong distaste for both highly capitalist societies in which the rich live at the expense of the poor, and finds herself obligated to take stands against such states. At the same time, she is also very much opposed to monarchies and heavily theocratic states, for similar reasons. She's a bit of paradox, though: she values individuality but also has a strong, almost utopian, sense of community. Even though it's heavily idealistic, she believes that someday everyone can throw off their social strappings and live in a truly perfect society where people are able to live according to their own beliefs without infringing on the rights of anyone else, but also where they are willing to work together to uphold this delicate balance of freedoms. This paradox causes her to occasionally feel conflicted. When this happens, she becomes withdrawn and somber.

She is also very chivalrous, willing to put herself in dangerous to help or protect a companion or someone weaker than herself. She takes everything very seriously, and although she is not without a sense of humor, she tends to be rather dry. To describe her personality in a few words: Revolutionary, just, chivalrous, regal, unflappable, devoted.

So what makes more sense? Law, or Chaos? Or just neutral?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT: After having been able to play with this character for a decent amount of sessions (16, actually), I've gotten a much better feel for her, and found that she is in fact Chaotic Good. She does a lot of Robin Hooding- traveling from town to town, punishing greedy merchants and power-hungry politicians and nobility. I found that she tends to chafe under lawful restrictions, but is too bothered by neutrality to endorse it- she's too opinionated to just not care about certain moral or social issues. A big part of her plot involved dealing with a large and powerful secret society that was fronting as a financial group- this group had sway over most of the continent's political processes. The higher officials of this group went by similiar chess-piece titles (Black King, Black Queen, Black Rook, etc.) A few sessions ago, she and her friends (the other PCs) inflitrated the base of this group in order to save a captured friend. It was there that she discovered her husband was NOT dead, but had had his soul stolen by the Black Rook of the group.

Currently, she and her friends are traveling in Celestia, chasing after the Black Rook. Her husband's spirit, now trapped in the form of a magical rapier, accompanies her.

All in all, I found Chaotic Good was the most natural alignment for her- although I think she initially was leaning towards neutral good.

Thanks to everyone who offered advice!
Kintara
04-08-05, 02:47 AM Being true to your beliefs, and having a clearly defined set of beliefs, is neither Chaotic nor Lawful. In fact, moral beliefs are defined in terms of Good and Evil.

As for her ethical alignment, the fact that she's "countercultural" is a relativity that's not too important in itself. Alignment is absolute. It doesn't change according to such conditions. Ask this question of her: would she be averse to either revolution or reform? Would she favor one over the other to a great extreme, especially in theory? I suspect she'd be happy with either, and so my tentative vote would be Neutral Good.

This might change if you could describe to me her "moral" code, though. "Socialism" doesn't really do much for me, without elaboration. That's a very broad political concept that has many possible ramifications.
Vharuck
04-08-05, 05:42 AM Sounds NG from what you've typed.
b6
04-08-05, 04:10 PM i will agree here that NG seems to be the fitting alignment.

however, a comment on the character's history (because i found it to be so interesting!):
i dont know if youve mentioned this or not, but is Cais the girl's real name?
if so, she definitely should not travel under that name.
she should travel under her (now-dead) love's name.
however, if Cais IS the love's name, then you've solved one problem, and the only one remaining is what the girl's original name is.

i really think you're on to something with her playing his role... but don't stop too soon with it. trick his enemies into thinking they somehow missed their assassination! your DM will love you for the convenient story setups! :)
Nuntius128
04-09-05, 07:07 PM Yeah, NG sounds good.

Also, make sure you max out your ranks in Bluff. Anyone with a high enough Sense Motive check can give you away like that. Just in case!
SpoonyBard
04-09-05, 10:22 PM More important than max Bluff is max disguise, but yeah, max bluff, too.

Anyway, someone living a lie? Sounds chaotic to me. Lawful characters are usually very straightforward about who they are and what they do... I think.
jukar
04-09-05, 11:22 PM i will agree here that NG seems to be the fitting alignment.

however, a comment on the character's history (because i found it to be so interesting!):
i dont know if youve mentioned this or not, but is Cais the girl's real name?
if so, she definitely should not travel under that name.
she should travel under her (now-dead) love's name.
however, if Cais IS the love's name, then you've solved one problem, and the only one remaining is what the girl's original name is.

i really think you're on to something with her playing his role... but don't stop too soon with it. trick his enemies into thinking they somehow missed their assassination! your DM will love you for the convenient story setups! :)

I'm actually still in the process of considering that. Cais is her real name, so I'm still sort of trying to figure out what to do with that. Current idea is that the love operated under a pseudonym, and probably made most of his ideas public through publications made under this pseudonym.
jukar
04-09-05, 11:22 PM Anyway, someone living a lie? Sounds chaotic to me. Lawful characters are usually very straightforward about who they are and what they do... I think.

Hence my initial confusion.
jukar
04-09-05, 11:24 PM Yeah, NG sounds good.

Also, make sure you max out your ranks in Bluff. Anyone with a high enough Sense Motive check can give you away like that. Just in case!

Oh, I fully intend to. She's intended to be a very skillful character- not quite as skillful as say, a Rogue, but able to make use of her own high Charisma modifier.
jukar
04-09-05, 11:35 PM Being true to your beliefs, and having a clearly defined set of beliefs, is neither Chaotic nor Lawful. In fact, moral beliefs are defined in terms of Good and Evil.

As for her ethical alignment, the fact that she's "countercultural" is a relativity that's not too important in itself. Alignment is absolute. It doesn't change according to such conditions. Ask this question of her: would she be averse to either revolution or reform? Would she favor one over the other to a great extreme, especially in theory? I suspect she'd be happy with either, and so my tentative vote would be Neutral Good.

This might change if you could describe to me her "moral" code, though. "Socialism" doesn't really do much for me, without elaboration. That's a very broad political concept that has many possible ramifications.

You are right, it is a broad term, and I should have been more specific. I've edited the original post- hopefully that helps create a better image.
SpoonyBard
04-09-05, 11:43 PM Read the edits, still seems Chaotic to me.
b6
04-09-05, 11:52 PM even given the newly fleshed out description (first post), i think i would suggest putting NG on the character's sheet.
after a few sessions, when you've actually had the chance to give Cais a run for her money and seen what she is truly like, then a change might be in order. however, at this point, i think she is pretty neutral.
that she is dressing and living as a man might point Chaotic (and i agree that it pretty much does), but i still see shades of Neutral in there.
if worst should come to worst, you could just consult with your DM and see what opinion he/she has about the alignment.

in other words, write it in pencil.
but that should be a given. ;)

best of luck. this character sounds very interesting!
Kintara
04-10-05, 02:38 AM The expanded definition gives me the impression that the character might be more enjoyable if intentionally played more Chaotically. The built-in paradoxes of the role she's chosen for herself don't necessarily dictate a Chaotic alignment, but it would be fun to play it up in that way. She wouldn't be Chaotic because of her ideals, but because she's torn in too many directions, and sometimes gets lost in the tug and pull.
Leap
04-14-05, 04:30 AM NG definately.

CG doesnt make assumptions about others (as is found in your "she believes that someday everyone can throw off their social strappings " comment). They tend to take an "I'm good but I dont expect anyone else to be necessarily" attitude.

LG meanwhile would disagree with the whole notion on "throw off their social strappings". It's those social strappings, they would argue, that keep society from 'descending into chaos'.

Cracking character description as well :D
Rei-chan
05-02-05, 09:53 PM Of course, I don't think the alignment system is very good, anyway. I believe that if you're playing an actual character, such things are much more complicated; for instance, for a good character, there's still a certain amount of 'how much would you compromise for the greater good/the one you loved/etc.'.

But then, I tend to think that in D&D, the alignment system is much more a case of whose side you're on (I believe this was in fact the initial spin - there are 9 cosmic forces, pick one).

I hate any kind of system that tries to tell you how you should be playing your character. I personally tend to bend it a little by drawing a graph (bad-good, lawful-chaos) and putting a cross on it somewhere. This is somewhat better, although it doesn't really describe a character's moral code any better than, say, a pure left wing-right wing axis describes someone's political alignment.
Leap
05-04-05, 06:57 AM Alignment can be broad and general or limiting and specific, depending on the DMs alignment ;)
Marcus Majarra
05-05-05, 11:22 PM I would go with Neutral Good as well, if only because she has no particularly strong ethical inclination towards how she accomplishes good. In fact, she even borrows from both ethical views, by adopting a persona better viewed in a conservative/lawful fashion to promote liberal/chaotic ways. If that's not the symbol of ethical balance, I don't see what else could be.
Ganurath
05-07-05, 11:15 PM Fighting the power? Living a lie? How is that anything but CG?
psudodevil
05-08-05, 10:47 PM This is a really obvious question. All one needs to do is open the Players Handbook and turn to the "Alignments" section. A character who devotes themselves to freeing the opressed is chaotic good. Add on top of that that she has been masquerading around as a man! This character is definitly chaotic good
foderch
05-11-05, 03:46 PM I'm actually still in the process of considering that. Cais is her real name, so I'm still sort of trying to figure out what to do with that. Current idea is that the love operated under a pseudonym, and probably made most of his ideas public through publications made under this pseudonym.

Why not change the name of her ex-lover so that it can be a name she could use as a disguised female?
I don't know a lot of english names that would fit but in french, Claude can be a guy's name or a girl's. Michel and Michèle, Frédéric and Frédérique, Emmanuel and Emmanuelle....
Your character could then use her ex-husband's name and still feel like a woman...and it would be fun to trick people into assuming that you're a guy just because of your name and the disguise while you could always argue that you never pretended to be a man...
I don't know if I'm clear, it would be easier for me to explain it in my own language...
Tonymitsu
05-13-05, 05:03 AM Hm. Interesting.

To be frank, I think your alignment problems may run a little bit deeper.

Based on your initial description she tends to sway between law and chaos quite a bit but she often feels torn between her sense of individuality and group cooperation.

You also mentioned she despises all monarchies and theocratic states of government. Now does she despise all of them or just the ones that are headed by corrupt officials exploiting the weak? Revolutionary yet devoted, sworn to a cause and defends the unjust. Would she still be rigidly opposed to a kingdom ruled by a kind and just, if strict law abiding, king? If she enters a kingdom where the "poor" pay many taxes on the money they make but are content and happy and have everything they need in life (food, shelter, clothing, rights to their livelihood) and are free to live however they wish provided they obey the laws, would she still act? The public may be dirt poor and living substandard in comparison to the rich but are they still oppressed? Does she ever consider what may be in the best interest of the people or is the deposing of the ruling body always her objective?
And at the same time it seems she appreciates a ruling body just not one with absolute power.

If yes then perhaps you might want to reconsider her aligment entirely to True Neutral.

A true neutral character can still be a zealot towards their cause but do it without the bias towards good or evil. A true neutral character would still step in to defend a weaker victim against a much stronger assailant because of lack of balance. And a zealot would do anything to defend allies she considered worthy to her cause.

Anyway, it's really up to you how you want to play the character but that's just my two gold on the subject.
jukar
05-13-05, 11:37 AM Hm. Interesting.

To be frank, I think your alignment problems may run a little bit deeper.

Based on your initial description she tends to sway between law and chaos quite a bit but she often feels torn between her sense of individuality and group cooperation.

You also mentioned she despises all monarchies and theocratic states of government. Now does she despise all of them or just the ones that are headed by corrupt officials exploiting the weak? Revolutionary yet devoted, sworn to a cause and defends the unjust. Would she still be rigidly opposed to a kingdom ruled by a kind and just, if strict law abiding, king? If she enters a kingdom where the "poor" pay many taxes on the money they make but are content and happy and have everything they need in life (food, shelter, clothing, rights to their livelihood) and are free to live however they wish provided they obey the laws, would she still act? The public may be dirt poor and living substandard in comparison to the rich but are they still oppressed? Does she ever consider what may be in the best interest of the people or is the deposing of the ruling body always her objective?
And at the same time it seems she appreciates a ruling body just not one with absolute power.

If yes then perhaps you might want to reconsider her aligment entirely to True Neutral.

A true neutral character can still be a zealot towards their cause but do it without the bias towards good or evil. A true neutral character would still step in to defend a weaker victim against a much stronger assailant because of lack of balance. And a zealot would do anything to defend allies she considered worthy to her cause.

Anyway, it's really up to you how you want to play the character but that's just my two gold on the subject.

Actually, she tends to be pretty predominantly good. I've debated that she be neutral good, but I don't think true neutral is that accurate.

Actually, that's a good question. For the most part, I think she would be okay with a kind monarchy- however, I don't think she believes that one can exist.
jukar
05-13-05, 11:40 AM Why not change the name of her ex-lover so that it can be a name she could use as a disguised female?
I don't know a lot of english names that would fit but in french, Claude can be a guy's name or a girl's. Michel and Michèle, Frédéric and Frédérique, Emmanuel and Emmanuelle....
Your character could then use her ex-husband's name and still feel like a woman...and it would be fun to trick people into assuming that you're a guy just because of your name and the disguise while you could always argue that you never pretended to be a man...
I don't know if I'm clear, it would be easier for me to explain it in my own language...

No, you are quite clear, don't worry.

Actually, her name Cais is a gender-neutral name. It's a Vietnamese name meaning "rejoicer". Although, now I am kicking myself for not naming her Claude (I have always loved that name).

I'm not sure if you are an anime fan or not, but the entire character concept borrows heavily from Oscar from The Rose of Versailles- also from Utena Tenjou from Revolutionary Girl Utena.
foderch
05-13-05, 04:14 PM No, you are quite clear, don't worry.

Actually, her name Cais is a gender-neutral name. It's a Vietnamese name meaning "rejoicer". Although, now I am kicking myself for not naming her Claude (I have always loved that name).

I'm not sure if you are an anime fan or not, but the entire character concept borrows heavily from Oscar from The Rose of Versailles- also from Utena Tenjou from Revolutionary Girl Utena.

Oups, I didn't know Cais was a neutral name...

Sorry I'm not an anime fan... but I think you have a very good character concept to work with here... hope you have fun with it!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jukar 04-08-05, 12:45 AM	I'm having a little trouble coming up with an alignment for my newest PC. She's being made for a 3.5 campaign. The PC's name is Cais Maddox, a level 1 human swashbuckler. Cais is female, but this knowledge is hidden from her companions- only the DM and myself (as the player) have this information. She dresses as a man and acts (for the most part, believably) like a man, and is able to convince even her own companions that she is, in fact, male. Now, there are a variety of reasons that she dresses and acts this way, but there are a variety of reasons that she doesn't. She's not a transgender character, she doesn't identify as a man psychologically like a transgendered person would. In fact, until she began adventuring a short time ago, she lived and dressed as a normal young woman, and had a very close and happy relationship with a man. Her lover, Renard, had lofty ambitions to change the world around him, bordering on being somewhat revolutionary. Renard was a writer, and he made his ideals by penning a series of manifestos while using the pen name the White King. However, these manifestos made the mistake of ridiculing specific public figures. The socially elite of several cities, afraid that the words of this mysterious but charismatic writer would lead to a socia uprising, acquired the services of a powerful and skillful assassin. This assassin eventually discovered the true identity of the White King, and killed him. Cais was deeply affected by this, and swore to help her love Renard realize his dreams, and to lead the oppressed to a happier life. In an act of symbolism, she renounced her own feminimity and clad herself in her love's clothing, so that neither him nor his ideals would be forgotten. She adopted the persona of the White King, and began to travel the continent, punishing corrupt officials and wicked members of the upper class. But she knew that in order to truly make Renard's words a reality, she would need to rally support against her enemies and to find strong companions who would share her zeal. However, I'm having a hard time figuring out what her alignment would be. She's obviously good, but the law/chaos axis is what stumps me. She has a strong distaste for both highly capitalist societies in which the rich live at the expense of the poor, and finds herself obligated to take stands against such states. At the same time, she is also very much opposed to monarchies and heavily theocratic states, for similar reasons. She's a bit of paradox, though: she values individuality but also has a strong, almost utopian, sense of community. Even though it's heavily idealistic, she believes that someday everyone can throw off their social strappings and live in a truly perfect society where people are able to live according to their own beliefs without infringing on the rights of anyone else, but also where they are willing to work together to uphold this delicate balance of freedoms. This paradox causes her to occasionally feel conflicted. When this happens, she becomes withdrawn and somber. She is also very chivalrous, willing to put herself in dangerous to help or protect a companion or someone weaker than herself. She takes everything very seriously, and although she is not without a sense of humor, she tends to be rather dry. To describe her personality in a few words: Revolutionary, just, chivalrous, regal, unflappable, devoted. So what makes more sense? Law, or Chaos? Or just neutral? Any help would be greatly appreciated. EDIT: After having been able to play with this character for a decent amount of sessions (16, actually), I've gotten a much better feel for her, and found that she is in fact Chaotic Good. She does a lot of Robin Hooding- traveling from town to town, punishing greedy merchants and power-hungry politicians and nobility. I found that she tends to chafe under lawful restrictions, but is too bothered by neutrality to endorse it- she's too opinionated to just not care about certain moral or social issues. A big part of her plot involved dealing with a large and powerful secret society that was fronting as a financial group- this group had sway over most of the continent's political processes. The higher officials of this group went by similiar chess-piece titles (Black King, Black Queen, Black Rook, etc.) A few sessions ago, she and her friends (the other PCs) inflitrated the base of this group in order to save a captured friend. It was there that she discovered her husband was NOT dead, but had had his soul stolen by the Black Rook of the group. Currently, she and her friends are traveling in Celestia, chasing after the Black Rook. Her husband's spirit, now trapped in the form of a magical rapier, accompanies her. All in all, I found Chaotic Good was the most natural alignment for her- although I think she initially was leaning towards neutral good. Thanks to everyone who offered advice!
Kintara 04-08-05, 02:47 AM	Being true to your beliefs, and having a clearly defined set of beliefs, is neither Chaotic nor Lawful. In fact, moral beliefs are defined in terms of Good and Evil. As for her ethical alignment, the fact that she's "countercultural" is a relativity that's not too important in itself. Alignment is absolute. It doesn't change according to such conditions. Ask this question of her: would she be averse to either revolution or reform? Would she favor one over the other to a great extreme, especially in theory? I suspect she'd be happy with either, and so my tentative vote would be Neutral Good. This might change if you could describe to me her "moral" code, though. "Socialism" doesn't really do much for me, without elaboration. That's a very broad political concept that has many possible ramifications.
Vharuck 04-08-05, 05:42 AM	Sounds NG from what you've typed.
b6 04-08-05, 04:10 PM	i will agree here that NG seems to be the fitting alignment. however, a comment on the character's history (because i found it to be so interesting!): i dont know if youve mentioned this or not, but is Cais the girl's real name? if so, she definitely should not travel under that name. she should travel under her (now-dead) love's name. however, if Cais IS the love's name, then you've solved one problem, and the only one remaining is what the girl's original name is. i really think you're on to something with her playing his role... but don't stop too soon with it. trick his enemies into thinking they somehow missed their assassination! your DM will love you for the convenient story setups! :)
Nuntius128 04-09-05, 07:07 PM	Yeah, NG sounds good. Also, make sure you max out your ranks in Bluff. Anyone with a high enough Sense Motive check can give you away like that. Just in case!
SpoonyBard 04-09-05, 10:22 PM	More important than max Bluff is max disguise, but yeah, max bluff, too. Anyway, someone living a lie? Sounds chaotic to me. Lawful characters are usually very straightforward about who they are and what they do... I think.
jukar 04-09-05, 11:22 PM	i will agree here that NG seems to be the fitting alignment. however, a comment on the character's history (because i found it to be so interesting!): i dont know if youve mentioned this or not, but is Cais the girl's real name? if so, she definitely should not travel under that name. she should travel under her (now-dead) love's name. however, if Cais IS the love's name, then you've solved one problem, and the only one remaining is what the girl's original name is. i really think you're on to something with her playing his role... but don't stop too soon with it. trick his enemies into thinking they somehow missed their assassination! your DM will love you for the convenient story setups! :) I'm actually still in the process of considering that. Cais is her real name, so I'm still sort of trying to figure out what to do with that. Current idea is that the love operated under a pseudonym, and probably made most of his ideas public through publications made under this pseudonym.
jukar 04-09-05, 11:22 PM	Anyway, someone living a lie? Sounds chaotic to me. Lawful characters are usually very straightforward about who they are and what they do... I think. Hence my initial confusion.
jukar 04-09-05, 11:24 PM	Yeah, NG sounds good. Also, make sure you max out your ranks in Bluff. Anyone with a high enough Sense Motive check can give you away like that. Just in case! Oh, I fully intend to. She's intended to be a very skillful character- not quite as skillful as say, a Rogue, but able to make use of her own high Charisma modifier.
jukar 04-09-05, 11:35 PM	Being true to your beliefs, and having a clearly defined set of beliefs, is neither Chaotic nor Lawful. In fact, moral beliefs are defined in terms of Good and Evil. As for her ethical alignment, the fact that she's "countercultural" is a relativity that's not too important in itself. Alignment is absolute. It doesn't change according to such conditions. Ask this question of her: would she be averse to either revolution or reform? Would she favor one over the other to a great extreme, especially in theory? I suspect she'd be happy with either, and so my tentative vote would be Neutral Good. This might change if you could describe to me her "moral" code, though. "Socialism" doesn't really do much for me, without elaboration. That's a very broad political concept that has many possible ramifications. You are right, it is a broad term, and I should have been more specific. I've edited the original post- hopefully that helps create a better image.
SpoonyBard 04-09-05, 11:43 PM	Read the edits, still seems Chaotic to me.
b6 04-09-05, 11:52 PM	even given the newly fleshed out description (first post), i think i would suggest putting NG on the character's sheet. after a few sessions, when you've actually had the chance to give Cais a run for her money and seen what she is truly like, then a change might be in order. however, at this point, i think she is pretty neutral. that she is dressing and living as a man might point Chaotic (and i agree that it pretty much does), but i still see shades of Neutral in there. if worst should come to worst, you could just consult with your DM and see what opinion he/she has about the alignment. in other words, write it in pencil. but that should be a given. ;) best of luck. this character sounds very interesting!
Kintara 04-10-05, 02:38 AM	The expanded definition gives me the impression that the character might be more enjoyable if intentionally played more Chaotically. The built-in paradoxes of the role she's chosen for herself don't necessarily dictate a Chaotic alignment, but it would be fun to play it up in that way. She wouldn't be Chaotic because of her ideals, but because she's torn in too many directions, and sometimes gets lost in the tug and pull.
Leap 04-14-05, 04:30 AM	NG definately. CG doesnt make assumptions about others (as is found in your "she believes that someday everyone can throw off their social strappings " comment). They tend to take an "I'm good but I dont expect anyone else to be necessarily" attitude. LG meanwhile would disagree with the whole notion on "throw off their social strappings". It's those social strappings, they would argue, that keep society from 'descending into chaos'. Cracking character description as well :D
Rei-chan 05-02-05, 09:53 PM	Of course, I don't think the alignment system is very good, anyway. I believe that if you're playing an actual character, such things are much more complicated; for instance, for a good character, there's still a certain amount of 'how much would you compromise for the greater good/the one you loved/etc.'. But then, I tend to think that in D&D, the alignment system is much more a case of whose side you're on (I believe this was in fact the initial spin - there are 9 cosmic forces, pick one). I hate any kind of system that tries to tell you how you should be playing your character. I personally tend to bend it a little by drawing a graph (bad-good, lawful-chaos) and putting a cross on it somewhere. This is somewhat better, although it doesn't really describe a character's moral code any better than, say, a pure left wing-right wing axis describes someone's political alignment.
Leap 05-04-05, 06:57 AM	Alignment can be broad and general or limiting and specific, depending on the DMs alignment ;)
Marcus Majarra 05-05-05, 11:22 PM	I would go with Neutral Good as well, if only because she has no particularly strong ethical inclination towards how she accomplishes good. In fact, she even borrows from both ethical views, by adopting a persona better viewed in a conservative/lawful fashion to promote liberal/chaotic ways. If that's not the symbol of ethical balance, I don't see what else could be.
Ganurath 05-07-05, 11:15 PM	Fighting the power? Living a lie? How is that anything but CG?
psudodevil 05-08-05, 10:47 PM	This is a really obvious question. All one needs to do is open the Players Handbook and turn to the "Alignments" section. A character who devotes themselves to freeing the opressed is chaotic good. Add on top of that that she has been masquerading around as a man! This character is definitly chaotic good
foderch 05-11-05, 03:46 PM	I'm actually still in the process of considering that. Cais is her real name, so I'm still sort of trying to figure out what to do with that. Current idea is that the love operated under a pseudonym, and probably made most of his ideas public through publications made under this pseudonym. Why not change the name of her ex-lover so that it can be a name she could use as a disguised female? I don't know a lot of english names that would fit but in french, Claude can be a guy's name or a girl's. Michel and Michèle, Frédéric and Frédérique, Emmanuel and Emmanuelle.... Your character could then use her ex-husband's name and still feel like a woman...and it would be fun to trick people into assuming that you're a guy just because of your name and the disguise while you could always argue that you never pretended to be a man... I don't know if I'm clear, it would be easier for me to explain it in my own language...
Tonymitsu 05-13-05, 05:03 AM	Hm. Interesting. To be frank, I think your alignment problems may run a little bit deeper. Based on your initial description she tends to sway between law and chaos quite a bit but she often feels torn between her sense of individuality and group cooperation. You also mentioned she despises all monarchies and theocratic states of government. Now does she despise all of them or just the ones that are headed by corrupt officials exploiting the weak? Revolutionary yet devoted, sworn to a cause and defends the unjust. Would she still be rigidly opposed to a kingdom ruled by a kind and just, if strict law abiding, king? If she enters a kingdom where the "poor" pay many taxes on the money they make but are content and happy and have everything they need in life (food, shelter, clothing, rights to their livelihood) and are free to live however they wish provided they obey the laws, would she still act? The public may be dirt poor and living substandard in comparison to the rich but are they still oppressed? Does she ever consider what may be in the best interest of the people or is the deposing of the ruling body always her objective? And at the same time it seems she appreciates a ruling body just not one with absolute power. If yes then perhaps you might want to reconsider her aligment entirely to True Neutral. A true neutral character can still be a zealot towards their cause but do it without the bias towards good or evil. A true neutral character would still step in to defend a weaker victim against a much stronger assailant because of lack of balance. And a zealot would do anything to defend allies she considered worthy to her cause. Anyway, it's really up to you how you want to play the character but that's just my two gold on the subject.
jukar 05-13-05, 11:37 AM	Hm. Interesting. To be frank, I think your alignment problems may run a little bit deeper. Based on your initial description she tends to sway between law and chaos quite a bit but she often feels torn between her sense of individuality and group cooperation. You also mentioned she despises all monarchies and theocratic states of government. Now does she despise all of them or just the ones that are headed by corrupt officials exploiting the weak? Revolutionary yet devoted, sworn to a cause and defends the unjust. Would she still be rigidly opposed to a kingdom ruled by a kind and just, if strict law abiding, king? If she enters a kingdom where the "poor" pay many taxes on the money they make but are content and happy and have everything they need in life (food, shelter, clothing, rights to their livelihood) and are free to live however they wish provided they obey the laws, would she still act? The public may be dirt poor and living substandard in comparison to the rich but are they still oppressed? Does she ever consider what may be in the best interest of the people or is the deposing of the ruling body always her objective? And at the same time it seems she appreciates a ruling body just not one with absolute power. If yes then perhaps you might want to reconsider her aligment entirely to True Neutral. A true neutral character can still be a zealot towards their cause but do it without the bias towards good or evil. A true neutral character would still step in to defend a weaker victim against a much stronger assailant because of lack of balance. And a zealot would do anything to defend allies she considered worthy to her cause. Anyway, it's really up to you how you want to play the character but that's just my two gold on the subject. Actually, she tends to be pretty predominantly good. I've debated that she be neutral good, but I don't think true neutral is that accurate. Actually, that's a good question. For the most part, I think she would be okay with a kind monarchy- however, I don't think she believes that one can exist.
jukar 05-13-05, 11:40 AM	Why not change the name of her ex-lover so that it can be a name she could use as a disguised female? I don't know a lot of english names that would fit but in french, Claude can be a guy's name or a girl's. Michel and Michèle, Frédéric and Frédérique, Emmanuel and Emmanuelle.... Your character could then use her ex-husband's name and still feel like a woman...and it would be fun to trick people into assuming that you're a guy just because of your name and the disguise while you could always argue that you never pretended to be a man... I don't know if I'm clear, it would be easier for me to explain it in my own language... No, you are quite clear, don't worry. Actually, her name Cais is a gender-neutral name. It's a Vietnamese name meaning "rejoicer". Although, now I am kicking myself for not naming her Claude (I have always loved that name). I'm not sure if you are an anime fan or not, but the entire character concept borrows heavily from Oscar from The Rose of Versailles- also from Utena Tenjou from Revolutionary Girl Utena.
foderch 05-13-05, 04:14 PM	No, you are quite clear, don't worry. Actually, her name Cais is a gender-neutral name. It's a Vietnamese name meaning "rejoicer". Although, now I am kicking myself for not naming her Claude (I have always loved that name). I'm not sure if you are an anime fan or not, but the entire character concept borrows heavily from Oscar from The Rose of Versailles- also from Utena Tenjou from Revolutionary Girl Utena. Oups, I didn't know Cais was a neutral name... Sorry I'm not an anime fan... but I think you have a very good character concept to work with here... hope you have fun with it!