"Die Hard" inspired character - help appreciated [Archive] - Wizards Community

"Die Hard" inspired character - help appreciated [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
staalmannen
07-20-07, 03:04 PM Race: Human, Sex: Male

General idea:
The classic, disillusioned drunken cop who gets into fist fights. A major inspiration is John McClain (Die Hard). Uses gut feeling (wis) rather than deduction (int). The idea matured after I saw Die Hard 4.0 where Bruce Willis seem to be practically immortal during fights. I include some stat thoughts and other mechanics which are also up for discussion, since I think mechanics are also part of the character development (as opposed to optimizing).

Background:
At first a law-abiding and idealistic city watchman who uses his fists and stunning weapons to “beat up the trash”, put them in jail and let the authorities sort out the rest (levels 1-6). Due to repeated clashes with the ones who make the laws and those who pass judgment (mostly due to the corruption at the top he sees and disagrees with), he loses faith in Law (change from LG to NG, also change religious faith from Tyr to “faithless”). Possibly he gets framed for something that he is innocent of by someone in charge who felt threatened by his high morals. During this time, he starts drinking and spends much time in tavern brawls and gets excluded from his monastic order. The once spot-less city watchman tunic is now stained and torn (last level of Monk – leading to Drunken Master). He decends into a haze of confused and conflicting moral dilemmas. He gets into fights and often gets badly beaten as he always sides with the weaker part. At this point he gets fired from the city watch. This only makes things worse and the brawls intensify until one day when he runs into a northern barbarian. No matter how hard he hits him, he gets ten times worse back. Without having to drink a single drop of alcohol, the barbarian had put himself into a state of mind that he had only found at the bottom of a glass before. The next day, after sobering up and tending to his wounds, he seeks up the barbarian to learn his secrets…

Level plan:
1-6 Monk (BAB: 4, Tumble: 6, Great Fortitude, Dodge) (LG, Tyr)
7-10 Drunken Master (BAB: 8, cleave, great cleave, power attack) (LG -->NG, faithless)
11-20 Frenzied Berserker

Stats:
STR: medium-high (~14, MUST be over 13 for power attack – frenzied berserker)
CON: medium-high (~14)
DEX: medium-high (~14, MUST be over 13 for Dodge – for drunken master)
WIS: medium to medium-high (~12, prefer high for rage control later)
INT: medium (~10)
CHA: low-medium (8-10)

Stat increases will be focused on STR.

Low CHA will be very in character due to the fact that he will always be under-estimated and overlooked. “he is just a stupid drunkard who does not know when to pick a fight and when to back down”. The only “social skill” he will invest in is Intimidate, and that after he reaches FB class levels.

Background stuff: Will put a few ranks in profession(city watchman) for RP flavour at first level. No idea what this can be good for except that he knows how to be a cop and perhaps some “street smartness”.
TheOrdnanceGod
07-20-07, 07:58 PM you should try and get your DM to have an NPC named Hans Grueber
Terjon of the Blue Rose
07-21-07, 12:05 AM May just be me, and I admit I have not yet seen number four, but I always saw John McClaine as a Rogue/Barbarian. Maybe Rogue/Fighter with gun (grossbow works fine) spec.
staalmannen
07-21-07, 12:20 AM I am not trying to make a John McClaine clone (then I should indeed also know some kind of missile weapon). I am more inspired from him and the way he gets beat up and still standing and how he fights: angry (FB), "dirty" and creative(DM). Sometimes his fighting style appears to lack "style" compared to his opponents but he is still the one standing in the end.

There is another reason i think the DM/FB combo is interesting: It opens up for a VERY tricky balancing act since drinks will improve his fighting abilities but reduce his will save. If he enters a frenzy under too high levels of intoxication there is a big risk he can not stop at will (leading to some rather messy tavern brawls...for example). I am considering making some sort of "insight" check when he enters a fight intoxicated - if it fails he does not know that it is a bad idea to loose his temper in his current state...
Fithero
07-21-07, 12:27 AM I always thought it would be a fighter/rogue with the street fighter prc from CA.

Its true that his fighting style is down and dirty, he's not afraid to get hit and is pretty much willing to take on any odds.

Sounds like an interesting character :P have fun
Terjon of the Blue Rose
07-21-07, 12:35 AM Well I'm glad to see it's not intended to be a clone and your character is certainly very playable and fun. That being said I don't really see that "clever" or even "dirty" aspect in either monk or frenzied berserker. The monk fighting styles tend to lend towards his "situation under control" attitude and FB works nicely for his near indestructability but neither seems to allow to much for his unconventional thought process. Druken master could but remember that it really is a martial art and as such still follows strict regimens (though this being a fantasy world those can be relaxed). I'm not trying to bash your idea here its just I don't see how it would be played and convey any real "John McClaine" feeling.
staalmannen
07-21-07, 04:39 AM The "situation under control" aspect of a monk is probably thrown out as a monk turns into a Drunken Master (they get "drunken rage" at level 5 if I am not completely mistaken).
The whole point with DM is however the creative use of whatever is at hand, which is a pretty neat brawler feat...

There are some brawler-type feats that are nice for flavour but not that good... If you have some good ideas for feat selection etc for the general character concept (NOT necessarily "optimized" but more "in character") I am happy to take suggestions. Thinking about taking some kind of brawler-type feat at level 6 (last monk level) when he starts to drink, fight and basically abandon his monk ideals.

oh..another thing. I am thinking that when he retires (if he survives...he might have tried to box with a dragon or something at this point) he will start up his own training centre for ex-monks teaching them how to use their emotions in a fight (FB teacher) rather than suppressing them.

EDIT:
Oh... and I was thinking about taking Vow of Poverty at level 1. I know it is a bit cheezy but I think it could explain his absolute immunity to bribery attempts (which by extension will give him enemies in high places as he beats up and throws anyone in jail no matter how rich or influential they are).

I am currently "between" RPG groups (moved to Belgium from Sweden this spring) and have not found a DnD group (hint, hint ;)) to play this char in currently (i am currently playing him in my head). He would ofcourse work best in a city-based campaign but I think he could also go for wilderness- or dungeon-crawl type adventures. (I am imagining a fat, smoking police chief that orders him to leave his badge and leave the city for a while until things have "cooled down" a bit after some kind of spectacular arrest).
Terjon of the Blue Rose
07-21-07, 07:42 AM Like I said I don't really see John McClain in him but thats a matter of my perception. Even so he sounds like he'd be fun to play. As far as feats go McClain has to have flick of the wrist. Its primarily useful for rogues but it can help make sure that first round stunning fist hits meaning a monk can use it quite nicely too. I see it as a quick jab to the face that just takes a foe completely by surprise and leaves him stretching his jaw for a round afterwards. Of course I'm not sure how it would work out rules-wise with an unarmed strike but hey that should be a fairly easy on to work out with a DM.

EDIT:
I'd welcome you to my game but unfortunately you didn't move to the right country... Belgium is quite a commute to the US.:P
staalmannen
07-21-07, 08:23 AM I think the whole McClain - aspect of the character is starting to fade the further I am thinking about it although he was sort of the initial inspiration (and I really like his fighting style, although I think my character will act even more crazy when he enters a frenzy).

Think of him more as a bad-ass cop who beats up just about anyone who tries to push him (or someone else that is considerably weaker) around. The "disillusioned cop" and "incorruptible upholder of justice" type character has some neat brawlers also in old gangster movies etc.

PS. Thanks for the offer...but yeah the commute would be a tad too long :( Ds.

EDIT:
Oh, and if someone can come up with cool lines (sort of like McClain but not direct rip-offs) I would appreciate it
BlackHalfDragon
07-21-07, 02:44 PM Maybe play him intelligent like Lee Childs Jack Reacher character ? hes like a PI but takes no charlie alpha romeo papa
Fithero
07-21-07, 09:53 PM hes like a PI but takes no charlie alpha romeo papa

Woah woah woah! He takes no carp? When did this guy become a fisherman?

:D
Terjon of the Blue Rose
07-22-07, 12:09 AM upon a flick of the wrist and stunning fist combo a.k.a. sucker punch.
"Sit down stupid." or "Why don't you rest that jaw of yours... looks like it needs it."
staalmannen
07-22-07, 02:26 AM upon a flick of the wrist and stunning fist combo a.k.a. sucker punch.
"Sit down stupid." or "Why don't you rest that jaw of yours... looks like it needs it."

Great one!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
staalmannen 07-20-07, 03:04 PM	Race: Human, Sex: Male General idea: The classic, disillusioned drunken cop who gets into fist fights. A major inspiration is John McClain (Die Hard). Uses gut feeling (wis) rather than deduction (int). The idea matured after I saw Die Hard 4.0 where Bruce Willis seem to be practically immortal during fights. I include some stat thoughts and other mechanics which are also up for discussion, since I think mechanics are also part of the character development (as opposed to optimizing). Background: At first a law-abiding and idealistic city watchman who uses his fists and stunning weapons to “beat up the trash”, put them in jail and let the authorities sort out the rest (levels 1-6). Due to repeated clashes with the ones who make the laws and those who pass judgment (mostly due to the corruption at the top he sees and disagrees with), he loses faith in Law (change from LG to NG, also change religious faith from Tyr to “faithless”). Possibly he gets framed for something that he is innocent of by someone in charge who felt threatened by his high morals. During this time, he starts drinking and spends much time in tavern brawls and gets excluded from his monastic order. The once spot-less city watchman tunic is now stained and torn (last level of Monk – leading to Drunken Master). He decends into a haze of confused and conflicting moral dilemmas. He gets into fights and often gets badly beaten as he always sides with the weaker part. At this point he gets fired from the city watch. This only makes things worse and the brawls intensify until one day when he runs into a northern barbarian. No matter how hard he hits him, he gets ten times worse back. Without having to drink a single drop of alcohol, the barbarian had put himself into a state of mind that he had only found at the bottom of a glass before. The next day, after sobering up and tending to his wounds, he seeks up the barbarian to learn his secrets… Level plan: 1-6 Monk (BAB: 4, Tumble: 6, Great Fortitude, Dodge) (LG, Tyr) 7-10 Drunken Master (BAB: 8, cleave, great cleave, power attack) (LG -->NG, faithless) 11-20 Frenzied Berserker Stats: STR: medium-high (~14, MUST be over 13 for power attack – frenzied berserker) CON: medium-high (~14) DEX: medium-high (~14, MUST be over 13 for Dodge – for drunken master) WIS: medium to medium-high (~12, prefer high for rage control later) INT: medium (~10) CHA: low-medium (8-10) Stat increases will be focused on STR. Low CHA will be very in character due to the fact that he will always be under-estimated and overlooked. “he is just a stupid drunkard who does not know when to pick a fight and when to back down”. The only “social skill” he will invest in is Intimidate, and that after he reaches FB class levels. Background stuff: Will put a few ranks in profession(city watchman) for RP flavour at first level. No idea what this can be good for except that he knows how to be a cop and perhaps some “street smartness”.
TheOrdnanceGod 07-20-07, 07:58 PM	you should try and get your DM to have an NPC named Hans Grueber
Terjon of the Blue Rose 07-21-07, 12:05 AM	May just be me, and I admit I have not yet seen number four, but I always saw John McClaine as a Rogue/Barbarian. Maybe Rogue/Fighter with gun (grossbow works fine) spec.
staalmannen 07-21-07, 12:20 AM	I am not trying to make a John McClaine clone (then I should indeed also know some kind of missile weapon). I am more inspired from him and the way he gets beat up and still standing and how he fights: angry (FB), "dirty" and creative(DM). Sometimes his fighting style appears to lack "style" compared to his opponents but he is still the one standing in the end. There is another reason i think the DM/FB combo is interesting: It opens up for a VERY tricky balancing act since drinks will improve his fighting abilities but reduce his will save. If he enters a frenzy under too high levels of intoxication there is a big risk he can not stop at will (leading to some rather messy tavern brawls...for example). I am considering making some sort of "insight" check when he enters a fight intoxicated - if it fails he does not know that it is a bad idea to loose his temper in his current state...
Fithero 07-21-07, 12:27 AM	I always thought it would be a fighter/rogue with the street fighter prc from CA. Its true that his fighting style is down and dirty, he's not afraid to get hit and is pretty much willing to take on any odds. Sounds like an interesting character :P have fun
Terjon of the Blue Rose 07-21-07, 12:35 AM	Well I'm glad to see it's not intended to be a clone and your character is certainly very playable and fun. That being said I don't really see that "clever" or even "dirty" aspect in either monk or frenzied berserker. The monk fighting styles tend to lend towards his "situation under control" attitude and FB works nicely for his near indestructability but neither seems to allow to much for his unconventional thought process. Druken master could but remember that it really is a martial art and as such still follows strict regimens (though this being a fantasy world those can be relaxed). I'm not trying to bash your idea here its just I don't see how it would be played and convey any real "John McClaine" feeling.
staalmannen 07-21-07, 04:39 AM	The "situation under control" aspect of a monk is probably thrown out as a monk turns into a Drunken Master (they get "drunken rage" at level 5 if I am not completely mistaken). The whole point with DM is however the creative use of whatever is at hand, which is a pretty neat brawler feat... There are some brawler-type feats that are nice for flavour but not that good... If you have some good ideas for feat selection etc for the general character concept (NOT necessarily "optimized" but more "in character") I am happy to take suggestions. Thinking about taking some kind of brawler-type feat at level 6 (last monk level) when he starts to drink, fight and basically abandon his monk ideals. oh..another thing. I am thinking that when he retires (if he survives...he might have tried to box with a dragon or something at this point) he will start up his own training centre for ex-monks teaching them how to use their emotions in a fight (FB teacher) rather than suppressing them. EDIT: Oh... and I was thinking about taking Vow of Poverty at level 1. I know it is a bit cheezy but I think it could explain his absolute immunity to bribery attempts (which by extension will give him enemies in high places as he beats up and throws anyone in jail no matter how rich or influential they are). I am currently "between" RPG groups (moved to Belgium from Sweden this spring) and have not found a DnD group (hint, hint ;)) to play this char in currently (i am currently playing him in my head). He would ofcourse work best in a city-based campaign but I think he could also go for wilderness- or dungeon-crawl type adventures. (I am imagining a fat, smoking police chief that orders him to leave his badge and leave the city for a while until things have "cooled down" a bit after some kind of spectacular arrest).
Terjon of the Blue Rose 07-21-07, 07:42 AM	Like I said I don't really see John McClain in him but thats a matter of my perception. Even so he sounds like he'd be fun to play. As far as feats go McClain has to have flick of the wrist. Its primarily useful for rogues but it can help make sure that first round stunning fist hits meaning a monk can use it quite nicely too. I see it as a quick jab to the face that just takes a foe completely by surprise and leaves him stretching his jaw for a round afterwards. Of course I'm not sure how it would work out rules-wise with an unarmed strike but hey that should be a fairly easy on to work out with a DM. EDIT: I'd welcome you to my game but unfortunately you didn't move to the right country... Belgium is quite a commute to the US.:P
staalmannen 07-21-07, 08:23 AM	I think the whole McClain - aspect of the character is starting to fade the further I am thinking about it although he was sort of the initial inspiration (and I really like his fighting style, although I think my character will act even more crazy when he enters a frenzy). Think of him more as a bad-ass cop who beats up just about anyone who tries to push him (or someone else that is considerably weaker) around. The "disillusioned cop" and "incorruptible upholder of justice" type character has some neat brawlers also in old gangster movies etc. PS. Thanks for the offer...but yeah the commute would be a tad too long :( Ds. EDIT: Oh, and if someone can come up with cool lines (sort of like McClain but not direct rip-offs) I would appreciate it
BlackHalfDragon 07-21-07, 02:44 PM	Maybe play him intelligent like Lee Childs Jack Reacher character ? hes like a PI but takes no charlie alpha romeo papa
Fithero 07-21-07, 09:53 PM	hes like a PI but takes no charlie alpha romeo papa Woah woah woah! He takes no carp? When did this guy become a fisherman? :D
Terjon of the Blue Rose 07-22-07, 12:09 AM	upon a flick of the wrist and stunning fist combo a.k.a. sucker punch. "Sit down stupid." or "Why don't you rest that jaw of yours... looks like it needs it."
staalmannen 07-22-07, 02:26 AM	upon a flick of the wrist and stunning fist combo a.k.a. sucker punch. "Sit down stupid." or "Why don't you rest that jaw of yours... looks like it needs it." Great one!