Avariel Level Adjustment +3??? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Avariel Level Adjustment +3??? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Campeador
07-23-03, 02:52 PM I just had a glimpse in the 'Races of Faerun' book, which is quite good I must say. One addition I was eagerly waiting for was the Avariel (Winged Elf). And it looked good. Except for the level adjustment. +3?? What does it have? Okay, it has good (even great) score adjustments (+4 Dex, -2, +2 Int and +2 Wis), and it can fly. There were two other special qualities which slipped my mind, but they were pretty basic and featured in most elves. That's it. It lacks the sleep immunity of elves and the Active search as well. A drow gets +2 and look at the amount of specials the Drow gets? Is that fair. Nuh-uh.

Then about the score adjustments. While Int +2 is neat I think Cha +2 is a lot more justifiable with two great wings on your back. Especially after reading the physical description....

Also, favored class: Cleric? Avariel are useless with heavy armor, and though the +2 Wis is nice, the Int and Dex are useless. I'd think Monk or Bard were better choices. Monk gains flight and very good and relevant score adjustments, and the same goes for Bard.
hiryuu
07-23-03, 03:14 PM Charisma means nothing in regards to appearance. Charisma is the ability to look at a thing and say, "that is not me." It is the ability to define in precise terms who and what you are, and how the world realtes to you, thus allowing you to effectively carve out your location within it. It's what allows philosophical constructs of the inner mind and its realtion to the world at large.

Avariels get all kind sof stuff, most notably some +4 skill bonuses. And the ability to fly. Fly! Do you know how useful that ability is? Especially as a natural, non-dispellable ability?
Campeador
07-23-03, 04:59 PM Charm also encompasses physical prowess and sheer beauty as well. It's wider than just the aspects you named, which are partly Cha, but also partly Wis (your own place in the world and inner mind are clearly Wisdom aspects).

And to the rest. Agreed on the flying, it's quite a deal, but doesn't that goes for Spell Resistance and Spell-like abilities as well? Yes it gets +4 on JUmp, I believe (have to look that up) and +1 on Spot or such. But compared to the amount and usefulness of a Drow's Specal Qualities, I can't say that they are more powerful than a Drow....
xirkal
07-23-03, 09:10 PM I think they should have added in some of the penalties they had in 2nd ed. Such as their claustrophobia, or their wings being vulnerable to fire. Then make them +1 ecl.
Edymnion
07-23-03, 09:12 PM Savage Species lists the wings and innate ability to fly as being a +2 ECL in it's own right. Toss in a +1's worth of adjustments and abilities, and it sounds about right to me.
JusticeZero
07-23-03, 10:33 PM Originally posted by Campeador
also partly Wis (your own place in the world and inner mind are clearly Wisdom aspects). Uhm... no... read the description of what happens when your Charisma is drained to zero please. And quit trying to slice away the parts of a primary mental stat that is already not well respected that it can undeniably account for.And to the rest. Agreed on the flying, it's quite a deal, but doesn't that goes for Spell Resistance and Spell-like abilities as well?I'd rank Natural Nonmagical Flight up there with usefulness in about the same area of usefulness as, say, Dimension Door at will as a free action, or Wall of Force at will. It utterly changes the game instantly. Heck, Levitate does some pretty insane stuff to tactics and it doesn't even let you fly behind the lines.
CursedMoredhel
07-24-03, 06:31 AM why the WIS bonus i say wouldn't have the inatte ability to fly and being elves make you more likely to be more aloof meaning there shouldn't be a WIS bonus i reckon with that gone maybe it could pass as a +2 level mod. taking into account all WIS based spells will be 1 point less a well. A +3 level mod is to much of a dissadvantage i'd rather the avariel have some down points like minus' to swim armour becomes more encumbering(due to wings) etc then again most DM's will get your wings clipped to even out that ability, then your characters stuffed.
Campeador
07-24-03, 07:58 AM Uhm... no... read the description of what happens when your Charisma is drained to zero please. And quit trying to slice away the parts of a primary mental stat that is already not well respected that it can undeniably account for.

Do you have a page for where it says about CHA hitting zero? And straight from the PHB:

Wisdom describes a character's willpower, common sense, perception and intuition. While INT represents one's ability to analyse information, WIS is more related to being in tune and aware of one's surroundings.

And why do you think ki is based on WIS? Because it represents your mind.

And now for my argument about CHA:

Charisma measures a character's force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead and physical attractiveness.

Xirkal: I like the idea of penalties. It's a fairly realistic idea, and provides nice role-playing aspects as well...:)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Campeador 07-23-03, 02:52 PM	I just had a glimpse in the 'Races of Faerun' book, which is quite good I must say. One addition I was eagerly waiting for was the Avariel (Winged Elf). And it looked good. Except for the level adjustment. +3?? What does it have? Okay, it has good (even great) score adjustments (+4 Dex, -2, +2 Int and +2 Wis), and it can fly. There were two other special qualities which slipped my mind, but they were pretty basic and featured in most elves. That's it. It lacks the sleep immunity of elves and the Active search as well. A drow gets +2 and look at the amount of specials the Drow gets? Is that fair. Nuh-uh. Then about the score adjustments. While Int +2 is neat I think Cha +2 is a lot more justifiable with two great wings on your back. Especially after reading the physical description.... Also, favored class: Cleric? Avariel are useless with heavy armor, and though the +2 Wis is nice, the Int and Dex are useless. I'd think Monk or Bard were better choices. Monk gains flight and very good and relevant score adjustments, and the same goes for Bard.
hiryuu 07-23-03, 03:14 PM	Charisma means nothing in regards to appearance. Charisma is the ability to look at a thing and say, "that is not me." It is the ability to define in precise terms who and what you are, and how the world realtes to you, thus allowing you to effectively carve out your location within it. It's what allows philosophical constructs of the inner mind and its realtion to the world at large. Avariels get all kind sof stuff, most notably some +4 skill bonuses. And the ability to fly. Fly! Do you know how useful that ability is? Especially as a natural, non-dispellable ability?
Campeador 07-23-03, 04:59 PM	Charm also encompasses physical prowess and sheer beauty as well. It's wider than just the aspects you named, which are partly Cha, but also partly Wis (your own place in the world and inner mind are clearly Wisdom aspects). And to the rest. Agreed on the flying, it's quite a deal, but doesn't that goes for Spell Resistance and Spell-like abilities as well? Yes it gets +4 on JUmp, I believe (have to look that up) and +1 on Spot or such. But compared to the amount and usefulness of a Drow's Specal Qualities, I can't say that they are more powerful than a Drow....
xirkal 07-23-03, 09:10 PM	I think they should have added in some of the penalties they had in 2nd ed. Such as their claustrophobia, or their wings being vulnerable to fire. Then make them +1 ecl.
Edymnion 07-23-03, 09:12 PM	Savage Species lists the wings and innate ability to fly as being a +2 ECL in it's own right. Toss in a +1's worth of adjustments and abilities, and it sounds about right to me.
JusticeZero 07-23-03, 10:33 PM	Originally posted by Campeador also partly Wis (your own place in the world and inner mind are clearly Wisdom aspects). Uhm... no... read the description of what happens when your Charisma is drained to zero please. And quit trying to slice away the parts of a primary mental stat that is already not well respected that it can undeniably account for.And to the rest. Agreed on the flying, it's quite a deal, but doesn't that goes for Spell Resistance and Spell-like abilities as well?I'd rank Natural Nonmagical Flight up there with usefulness in about the same area of usefulness as, say, Dimension Door at will as a free action, or Wall of Force at will. It utterly changes the game instantly. Heck, Levitate does some pretty insane stuff to tactics and it doesn't even let you fly behind the lines.
CursedMoredhel 07-24-03, 06:31 AM	why the WIS bonus i say wouldn't have the inatte ability to fly and being elves make you more likely to be more aloof meaning there shouldn't be a WIS bonus i reckon with that gone maybe it could pass as a +2 level mod. taking into account all WIS based spells will be 1 point less a well. A +3 level mod is to much of a dissadvantage i'd rather the avariel have some down points like minus' to swim armour becomes more encumbering(due to wings) etc then again most DM's will get your wings clipped to even out that ability, then your characters stuffed.
Campeador 07-24-03, 07:58 AM	Uhm... no... read the description of what happens when your Charisma is drained to zero please. And quit trying to slice away the parts of a primary mental stat that is already not well respected that it can undeniably account for. Do you have a page for where it says about CHA hitting zero? And straight from the PHB: Wisdom describes a character's willpower, common sense, perception and intuition. While INT represents one's ability to analyse information, WIS is more related to being in tune and aware of one's surroundings. And why do you think ki is based on WIS? Because it represents your mind. And now for my argument about CHA: Charisma measures a character's force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead and physical attractiveness. Xirkal: I like the idea of penalties. It's a fairly realistic idea, and provides nice role-playing aspects as well...:)