Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Branto 04-20-07, 09:28 PM	I've been wanting to try a character that would be a Bard/Palemaster combination. The basic premise is he's a half-elf who was always very interested in music his whole life.. but then when his human parent passes away, it sparks a second interest in his life. Death. The afterlife. This eventually leads him to pursue not only the path of the bard, but of the palemaster as well. (and shadowdancer, but only like the first level of that. ;) ) Although creepy and death-obsessed, he would actually be a neutral character, and more likely to save an ally than let them die (and he certainly wouldn't go around killing his teammates), though there would have to be a pretty good reason for him to even take interest in the living. He's usually more than happy conversing with the dead or summoning spirits for company. Speaking in terms of combat style, he avoids physical combat completely, preferring to use his minions (he thinks of them more as friends) and bardic spells, and generally staying out of arm's reach with illusions and stealth ability, only jumping in close to make use of his undead graft. In fact, he forgoes weapons of all sort, leaving his hands free for a musical instrument.. Any suggestions? Comments? Criticisms? Particularly, I can't decide what kind of instrument for him to use. I'm kind of fond of the violin, as I've heard some really haunting melodies played with those things.. but I could also see something like a flute or plucked string instrument (who needs a guitar pick when you've got a skeletal hand?) Also.. haven't decided on a name yet. I'm thinking something beginning with an "M".
robi300 04-20-07, 11:16 PM	I would say he should play the Organ but since that is rather impractical I think the Violin is a good choice. I think taking the feat Haunting Melody would be a good choice for your character as well not only is it a good feat it fits really well RP wise with your concept.
Fithero 04-21-07, 12:32 AM	Bag pipes :D Nothing more haunting than hearing one of those played on a misty evening during magic hour :P And not to pick, but would a Dirgesinger go better with the whole bard motif? Peace
Branto 04-21-07, 01:59 AM	oooh, Haunting Melody and Dirgesinger, huh? I know I've heard of that feat and that PrC, but I can't remember exactly what they do. Too bad neither of those are in NWN2, since that's the only source of D&D I have access to currently, so the best I can get is the Curse Song feat. (And really you can NOT get the full flavor of any minion-summoning class when you're playing a game that restricts you to one minion at a time. Blegh.) By the way, anyone know if Augmented Summoning works for summoning abilities gained as a class feature? Bagpipes are cool, but I've never really thought of them as spooky or mysterious. And an organ would be freakin' sweet, but even if you fix the problem of mobility (animate it or build yourself some sort of big Organ Golem to ride around on... mmm.. bard/artificer?) that still kind of kills the whole stealthy thing. ;)
robi300 04-21-07, 08:53 AM	I don't have my book with me right now(Let my DM barrow it), but basically you play a song the creeps the hell out of your opponents I think it causes them to back become shaken and flee if they fail a will save but I am not sure since I can't check my source. It is in the Eberron Campaign setting if you want to look it up. If you really want to play an Organ you could just cast summon Instrument a lot. =)
Branto 04-21-07, 03:29 PM	Aaah, sure, scaring works for me! Oh, and you can't create organs with Summon Instrument, I checked. ;) This spell summons one handheld musical instrument of your choice ... You can't summon an instrument too large to be held in two hands (such as a harp, piano, harpsichord, alphorn, or pipe organ) Alphorn? ... I'd like to meet the alphorn-playing bard. Hahahaha. Anyways, naw, organs are too big and bulky. I'd like to be able to move around between casting of spells. Besides, the whole phantom of the opera thing just doesn't work for me... though I might have the character wear a stylish mask. :D
robi300 04-21-07, 04:31 PM	hummm... I guess I never really read the summon instrument spell description. You might also look into some more of the bardic music feat in the Ederron setting book lots of interesting one in there.
Fithero 04-22-07, 01:06 AM	It's kinda wierd, but it would be most unique. What about a crystal glass (or a whole bowl) filled with water, and you just run your finger round the edge of it. That or you could just beat box :D Peace
Branto 04-22-07, 02:01 AM	What about a crystal glass (or a whole bowl) filled with water, and you just run your finger round the edge of it. That or you could just beat box :D Well now you're just getting silly. ;) And if I wanted to do that, I'd probably just give him a kazoo. A wenderkazoo even, for NWN2 fans.
trickydevl666 04-22-07, 03:56 AM	The first name that popped into my head was Morty... well actually Mortis which then developed into Morty... Oooh... Morticious would be fun... but that makes me think of Morticia... So yeah... I like playing with the latin root for death. If you had access to Libris Mortis, Requiem is the feat for Dirgesinger... it allows your music to affect undead. All you need is Perform X 8 to get it too. But back to the storyness. Actually the first thought I had was bag pipes as well... 'cause they are awesome and they can be pretty haunting too... A flute can make very sad haunting music... Or you could be fun and get a Glokenspiel... they are able to be made with straps that you walk around and hit with mallets... just think little bell type sounds.. but that is actually silly... I say Violin, Flute, Bag Pipes, maybe even Trumpet. Well, have fun with Morty ^_^
Branto 04-22-07, 01:32 PM	I think I'm going to go with violin.. if it was even invented yet. What real-world century does the forgotten realms mirror, anyways? ;) And morty is a good name, but.. wasn't that the name of the floating skull from, uhh.. what was that famous D&D game? Was it Baldur's Gate? I want something original. Plus, he wouldn't have been born with a name like that since he didn't develop his fascination with death until a bit later in life. Now.. what's this about the Requiem feat? Undead aren't affected by bardic music normally? Hmm. :(
trickydevl666 04-22-07, 03:07 PM	Plus, he wouldn't have been born with a name like that since he didn't develop his fascination with death until a bit later in life. Now.. what's this about the Requiem feat? Undead aren't affected by bardic music normally? Hmm. :( Well when all else fails, name him I go to like a baby name website type thing. That's always fun. And I had know idea Morty was an actual character... My thought process went from Mort to Morty... And for the other part... Bard music= Mind affecting. Undead= Immune to Mind-Affecting or at least they usually are. Requiem = allow you to affect undead with Bardic Music except that duration lasts for only half as long. How are you getting into palemaster though? you need Vampiric Touch and Control Undead or maybe it was command... but how are you getting htose on your spell list for palemaster? I just wanted to point that out because I was just trying to think of a build that would allow you to get in some divineness... Something along the lines of Bard 6/ Ur-Priest 2/ Pale Master 2/ Sublime Chord2 / Mystic Theurge 8.... I don't know... I've always liked that build... maybe even take out a bard and get a Bard 5/Mindbender 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Pale Master 2/ Sublime Chord 2/Mystic Theurge8 .... I just like that build ^^;;
Branto 04-22-07, 04:01 PM	And for the other part... Bard music= Mind affecting. Undead= Immune to Mind-Affecting or at least they usually are. Requiem = allow you to affect undead with Bardic Music except that duration lasts for only half as long. Aah... that makes sense. Hmm.. How are you getting into palemaster though? you need Vampiric Touch and Control Undead or maybe it was command... but how are you getting htose on your spell list for palemaster? Are the requirements that much harder in the PnP stuff? Wow, they really lowered the bar for the NWN incarnation of that PrC. You only have to be, like.. non-good and have spells of, I think it was third level. I just wanted to point that out because I was just trying to think of a build that would allow you to get in some divineness The entire point of the palemaster prestige class is for arcane casters to go with an undead theme, since clerics are typically better at that role. Then again, warlocks also get some undead summoning ability... buuuut I want to try and make this work. ;)
Jacob_Crowe 04-22-07, 09:30 PM	one spell you should definately take is bonefiddle... spell compendium, plays the target's ribcage like a violin, dealing damage and a -20 to move silent. as for the character itself, i had a flash of inspiration. have you considered having him raised by the elves of eberonn? the ones that pray to the Undying Court? i can't remember the racial name atm, but you get my drift. and for the spell req's, Bonus Spell feat is a wonderful thing.
Branto 04-23-07, 12:26 AM	Bonefiddle... Hahahahha. Yeah, that just sounds way too funny, I'll take it if I get the opportunity. ;) What level is it? When you say Eberron, do you mean like Eberron the campaign setting? Eh, I dunno. I'm not too fond of Eberron actually, I just can't help but feel like the warforged completely dominate the entire setting. Considering the possibility of that Dirgesinger PrC instead of Palemaster (or maybe in addition to, if I (can) give up more bard levels, or go into the epic levels), can anyone tell me more about that class? I suppose if I were to do it instead of palemaster i'd lose out on undead minions, right?
trickydevl666 04-23-07, 12:56 AM	Dirgesinger is similar to sublime chord in that it advances music but not spellcasting... I believe I have a very poor build based on it in my "So I was Inspired" thread. Dirgesinger is a 5 level class that gives you 1 song at each level... Level 1, Song of Sorrow -2 on will saves and -2 on attack and damage rolls. 2. Song of Bolstering give undead Turn Resistance = Bard + Dirgesinger levels. 3. Song of Grief- If your opponent fails a will save, they become confused for as long as you sing and 5 rounds after you finish. 4. Song of Horror- Creature takes 1d6 Strength and 1d6 Dex damage can't be affected by song more than once a day. 5. Song of Awakening- Animate recently dead body that retains all Sp and Su abilities and is loyal to you for as long as you perform. only allowed to have one at a time. So you do get an undead minion, emphasis on the singular article. I just like it for it's flavor ^_^ It needs Knowledge (religon) 4 and Peform 8 as well as the Requiem feat.
Branto 04-23-07, 05:43 PM	I'm a little confused. Why exactly does Dirgesinger require a feat that allows bardic music to affect undead, and give you a song to bolster undead if the ONLY undead minion the class gives you access to is a single recently slain enemy? Seems like a waste to have buffs like that if there is sooooo little you can actually use them on. :P So, the PnP version of Palemaster requires you to have some spells that bards don't have access too, right? Hmmm.. I'm not sure how I'd get around that, without winding up with only a couple levels in like four or five different classes.
trickydevl666 04-23-07, 05:59 PM	Yeah... I'm not sure how to get them on the list either... the only thing I Could think of would be a 3 level dip into Wizard... so maybe bard 2/ Wizard 3/ Ultimate magus X/ Palemaster X and only advance bard... probably with some corpsecrafter feats, requiem and extra music from the Eberron Campaign Setting... Maybe you should request help from the optimization boards? they would probably be able to give you something better... So your basic story is Half-Elf bard enjoyed life, when his parents died, he became fascinated with death which lead to a want to study the undead ish sort of thing? I'd like to see that fleshed out a bit more.. ^_^
Branto 04-23-07, 06:45 PM	So your basic story is Half-Elf bard enjoyed life, when his parents died, he became fascinated with death which lead to a want to study the undead ish sort of thing? I'd like to see that fleshed out a bit more.. ^_^ Yep. He was a typical half-elf boy who just loved music. Then when his... I think it will be his father that was the human. That's pretty typical for elf/human pairings. Anyways, he grows up watching his dad age and eventually die while mum stays about the same. This sparks his interest in the cycle of life and death.. perhaps moreso death, and what comes after it. From that point on, he drifts farther and farther away from his mortal, living friends and family. Spending a lot of time reflecting in cemetaries and mausoleums... and I'd say speaking with the dead, but he'd need cleric levels for that. Ugh. Maybe I could get him an enchanted mask of speak with dead? Whatever. His studies of death eventually bring rewards in the ways of the dark arts, eventually allowing him to summon/create his own company to entertain with his music. That is, at least, when he can find something intelligent. But making a few bones dance around a campfire can be entertaining enough, even if they don't have a will to appreciate it. ;) P.S. ... I just looked up the two spells you said were required for pale master... one of them isn't even available until wizard level 13. :eek: Doesn't pale master have 10 levels, and give it's best class feature by far on the last one? Or is that only for the NWN version? Hmm. You know, the type of undead that palemasters deal with aren't really my first choice anyways. Are there any good classes that deal more with ghost or shadow type undead and that might work well with bard? I know that Shadowdancer gives you a shadow... but can you get more than one?
trickydevl666 04-23-07, 11:50 PM	Are there any good classes that deal more with ghost or shadow type undead and that might work well with bard? I know that Shadowdancer gives you a shadow... but can you get more than one? Well.. when there is a will... there is a way... I think I have found something better for you. It is called a Bard variant from Unearthed Arcana. The Divine Bard. Changes the bard's spellcasting to Divine instead of Arcane and allows you to learn Protection from Good which is just what you need to qualify for Master of Shrouds. Only problem is that it gives you a bit of MAD... you need to make WIS important for casting what level spells you can cast, and CHA for everything else. So it isn't that big. As for Master of Shrouds, it allows you to summon shadows, wraiths, spectres, greater shadows, and dread wraiths for all 10 levels of it. So Divine Bard 6/Master of Shrouds 10/ X 4 You don't get any create/animate abilities though... I'm still working on that part ^^
Branto 04-24-07, 08:43 AM	A divine bard? Wouldn't that be, like... a gospel singer? ;) Hahhaa. Are either of those strictly evil classes, though? You mentioned protection from good..
Crusher Nate 04-24-07, 12:07 PM	If you have access to The Complete Mage, the Lyric Thaumaturge prestige class there grants access to more spells. You get one per spell level (1 1st, 1 2nd, etc), and they can be anything from the Sorcerer/Wizard list. That might help for meeting the Pale Master's requirements...
trickydevl666 04-24-07, 06:00 PM	Yeah... and looking at pale master it is actually command not control so a 2nd level spell.... But I believe the gospel singing bard would be good and if you add in 3 levels of Lyric Thamaturge then you get 1 bonus first and 1 bonus 2nd... so Maybe Divine Bard 6/ Lyric Thaumaturge3/ Dirgesinger 1/ Master of Shrouds 10... But of course you will just need a little flexiblity because Lyric specifically states arcane spellcasting as a prerequisite... ^^
Branto 04-24-07, 09:10 PM	All very good suggestions, guys. Thanks. :D