Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hekale 01-14-08, 10:07 PM	I'm playing a gestalt beguiler/mindbender/sorcerer, CN, and I have a little ethical/party dynamics poll: to mind control the party or not? There's a half-orc with a deliciously low Will save who'd make a great meat shield (he'd benefit! My sorcerer side has great buff spells), but I don't want this caper to get my character ejected from the party. I don't mean to be evil, and for what it's worth I don't plan to Dominate or Enthrall him (or any other party member), just charm him very thoroughly. Ideas?
Vapthorne 01-15-08, 12:48 AM	I'm playing a gestalt beguiler/mindbender/sorcerer, CN, and I have a little ethical/party dynamics poll: to mind control the party or not? There's a half-orc with a deliciously low Will save who'd make a great meat shield (he'd benefit! My sorcerer side has great buff spells), but I don't want this caper to get my character ejected from the party. I don't mean to be evil, and for what it's worth I don't plan to Dominate or Enthrall him (or any other party member), just charm him very thoroughly. Ideas? My idea is simply this: Don't do it. While it might sound fun to you. In my eyes, strong arming another player's character for your own end is a recipe for disaster among the group. That may or not be your intention; but, that's how I'd interupt this mind-control scheme. Personally, I'd leave my CN beguiler/mindbender with enough considering to see the other as worthy allies/friends and not tools. Save the brainwashing for the NPCs.
CrimsonDeath 01-15-08, 05:01 AM	Only time you should Charm or Dominate an ally is right after an enemy Charms, Dominates, or Confuses him-- that is, when he's not in his right mind and is likely to do something he'd regret if not for your intervention. And when I say "ally", I don't just mean party members. I also mean NPCs who voluntarily cooperate with you. (You can tell the difference, but your character can't.) Furthermore, as much as CN and CG characters value freedom, I suspect they'd be particularly reluctant to Dominate someone, simply on principle. (Obviously, someone who's in the middle of trying to kill you isn't exercizing his free will properly and merits an exception to such a tendency.)
eamon 01-15-08, 06:18 AM	Only time you should Charm or Dominate an ally is right after an enemy Charms, Dominates, or Confuses him-- that is, when he's not in his right mind and is likely to do something he'd regret if not for your intervention. And when I say "ally", I don't just mean party members. I also mean NPCs who voluntarily cooperate with you. (You can tell the difference, but your character can't.) Furthermore, as much as CN and CG characters value freedom, I suspect they'd be particularly reluctant to Dominate someone, simply on principle. (Obviously, someone who's in the middle of trying to kill you isn't exercizing his free will properly and merits an exception to such a tendency.) Even in game, it makes sense not to charm PC's! I'd say your character can tell at least one important difference between other PC's and NPC's: you adventure together with your fellow PC's, but generally not with NPC's (certainly not for long). Adventuring with someone who just robbed a friend of his free will would be dangerous - who's to say he'll try you next. As such, a charmer would be unwise to charm someone if he can't charm everyone - all the time. If at any point the charmed creatures become uncharmed, they'll remember what you did and should react appropriately - by removing the threat you represent from their vicinity (which could mean expelling or killing you or simply leaving themselves.) If a charmer charms only part of the party without convincing the rest of the party beforehand that this is in their best interests and that he could and would never charm them, I'd also expect a revolt in many parties. So, even using in-game logic: Don't charm or dominate your fellow party members! (Except in exceptional circumstances such as when they've already been dominated/charmed by someone else).
Vapthorne 01-16-08, 12:23 AM	Furthermore, as much as CN and CG characters value freedom, I suspect they'd be particularly reluctant to Dominate someone, simply on principle. Excellent point!!
I_roll_ones 01-16-08, 08:59 PM	Saying that CN and CG respect freedom is a tad general. But is the half-orc and everyone else in the party stupid enough to not wonder why the half-orc is acting strange and taking orders from you? Does the spell come with a somatic portion? If so, they might get uppity. Which means that the spell backfired, since the party might view you as an enemy and then you sorta have to mind control everyone. And yeah, it's mean to the other PC. Just take Leadership as a feat and get a mind-controlled somethingwhatever NPC.