Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lord of the Ninth 08-13-03, 11:37 PM	I have this character, he's a githzerai monk and a member of the Bleak Cabal Faction (this is pseudo-Planescape). His name is The Serenity of Pointlessness. He suffers from depression and multiple personality syndrome. I'm using the multiple personalities rule from Ravenloft (minus the section on personality fragments, because I didn't want to keep track of 50 different fragments). He has 5 other personalities 1) Naria: Human child (female) 2) K'Rilath: elderly tiefling (male) 3) Yangol: Elderly githzerai (male) 4) Mirnol: aasimar child (male) 5) Zegonz: middle aged githzerai. Each persona has it's own little quirks (from the NPC quirks table in the DMG). Now here's how he got like this: He was born in Limbo and raised in a monastary, but it was raided by demons and he was taken prisoner. After being captured he was placed in a fiendish graft machine (as described in the BoVD and in the FF), where the tanar'ri ripped off both his arms and legs and replaced them with fiendish grafts. This event shattered his mind into 6 pieces, and latter the grafts evil nature did the rest. This horrific experience caused him to believe that there really was no point to the multiverse, so he took solice in the Bleak Cabal. He continued his monk training, because he now needed it to survive, never knowing what one of his other personalities might get him into while he slept, he had to be almost entirely self-sufficient. After joining the Cabal he made a pilgrimage to Pandemonium and learned to harness his madness to a certain degree (manic-depressive, hyperactive and insanity focus feats). So I'm wonder if anyone has any advice as to how I should play this guy. Thanks:)
RaKhan 08-15-03, 01:41 AM	That wouldn't work since Githzerai monks still need to be of lawful alignment. Madness, multitudes of bouts of depression, etc. are explicitly characteristic of a chaotic alignment. The Githzerai may live on the plain of Limbo (CN-aligned plane), but they make an LN-based fortress within the plane to shelter them.
Darok 08-15-03, 11:13 AM	Originally posted by RaKhan Madness, multitudes of bouts of depression, etc. are explicitly characteristic of a chaotic alignment. :uh-huh: no sir, not necessarily at all. several mental illnesses would tend to be MORE lawful than even paladins. Can you say Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder? many schizophrenias could easily be classified as lawful as well. and a note on MPD: usually, if not always, there has to be an initial schism when the child is young, some trauma that causes the first split. MPD is also correlated with high intelligence, if you really want to be nitpicky go read up on MPD, and the sectioning off of function it causes. you should be able to get more ideas on the other personas
RaKhan 08-15-03, 01:42 PM	Originally posted by Darok no sir, not necessarily at all. several mental illnesses would tend to be MORE lawful than even paladins. Can you say Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder? Although a obsessive-compulsive would try to put thing in order, the very fact that he has no control over his own mind because he cannot get past counting the tiles of rock in the monestary makes him a chaotic being. Lawful parts of alignment are not just about order but also about having and exacting control (either through justice like a paladin or tyranny like a Baatezu). The whole point of the monk is to deny yourself to escape the weaknesses of your body (i.e. diseases, which some mental disorders might be classified under). many schizophrenias could easily be classified as lawful as well. Uh, no they would not. Webster's has dementia praecox listed in the definition of schizophrenia. Dementia is associated with madness, and madness in D&D has always been associated with the chaotic alignment. and a note on MPD: usually, if not always, there has to be an initial schism when the child is young, some trauma that causes the first split. MPD is also correlated with high intelligence, if you really want to be nitpicky Having high intelligence has absolutely nothing to do with your law-chaos axis of alignment. Tanaari are very intelligent, however, they're also very crazy and thus chaotic. go read up on MPD, and the sectioning off of function it causes. you should be able to get more ideas on the other personas I don't need to look up any more info on something I already know to be chaotic in its very nature.
Darok 08-15-03, 01:58 PM	those notes on MPD were directed at the thread starter. They had nothing to do with the reply to you. To me, Lawful has always been a descriptor for following a code. I think that fits OCD pretty well. Here's the rub: just because DnD has always associated madness with a chaotic alignment, doesn't mean that that viewpoint is RIGHT. and 1) don't go to Webster's or any non-psychological text for definitions. just as you don't go asking an artist how to fix your car, you don't ask a linguist how the mind works. (most linguists aren't even very impressed with dictionary's either, if you want to get down to it. Just as a warning, you're talking to a dual Psychology/Linguistics major here.) and aside from that, by either of our definitions, this character would qualify as lawful. He is trying to control himself (and succeeding). Just because one has a mental illness at all doesnt make one automatically chaotic
Lord of the Ninth 08-15-03, 02:18 PM	The schism occurred when he received his fiendish grafts. I sorta wished I'd known about the intelligence thing before I'd rolled up his scores, int is one of his lowest ones (11). I put him as lawful because the core personality generally follows the laws of whatever society he is in, and he also sort of clings to his monastic teachings as one of the few constants in his life. I would say that madness is definately not an inherently chaotic trait, any body watch Mr. Monk? Of course one's alignment doesn't have to be dictated by any mental disorders you might have either, I can imagine some with schizophrenia wanting to be lawful but perhaps seeming chaotic to others. Thanks!
Darok 08-15-03, 02:35 PM	Originally posted by Lord of the Ninth The schism occurred when he received his fiendish grafts. I sorta wished I'd known about the intelligence thing before I'd rolled up his scores, int is one of his lowest ones (11). I put him as lawful because the core personality generally follows the laws of whatever society he is in, and he also sort of clings to his monastic teachings as one of the few constants in his life. I would say that madness is definately not an inherently chaotic trait, any body watch Mr. Monk? Of course one's alignment doesn't have to be dictated by any mental disorders you might have either, I can imagine some with schizophrenia wanting to be lawful but perhaps seeming chaotic to others. Thanks! it doesn't necessarily require an intelligent person, intelligent people are just more likely to get MPD (or any mental disorder for that matter). I really recommend doing a cursory runover of psych texts regarding MPD, to get a look at the personality types that usually occur. Each personality usually has a purpose within the mind, such as the protector, the driver, or the beating whelp, etc.
RaKhan 08-15-03, 10:29 PM	Originally posted by Lord of the Ninth I would say that madness is definately not an inherently chaotic trait, any body watch Mr. Monk? Of course one's alignment doesn't have to be dictated by any mental disorders you might have either, I can imagine some with schizophrenia wanting to be lawful but perhaps seeming chaotic to others. I didn't say your alignment had to be chaotic, but it should definitely not be lawful. If he has a lawful-type of alignment when he's not under the effects of whatever brain disorder/disease he has, then he would be considered a neutral character with regards to law and chaos.
Lord of the Ninth 08-16-03, 05:52 PM	:confused: That makes no sense, that'd be like a paladin becoming neutral because an evil person possessed them. It's illogical, besides, then I'd have to find a new class. It doesn't matter whether I'm neutral or chaotic, I'd still be an ex-monk, which doesn't make sense to me. I'm going to ignore that idea.
RaKhan 08-16-03, 07:58 PM	Originally posted by Lord of the Ninth :confused: That makes no sense, that'd be like a paladin becoming neutral because an evil person possessed them. It's illogical, besides, then I'd have to find a new class. It doesn't matter whether I'm neutral or chaotic, I'd still be an ex-monk, which doesn't make sense to me. I'm going to ignore that idea. Uh...no, it's not nonsensical. Possession of a soul and body can "infect" a possessed person's soul being around the evil spirit for so long unless the possessed person has an incredible amount of willpower (aka high Will save bonuses). Eventually, a particular person can be corrupted by the possessing spirit. This has happened in many fictional works of fantasy many times. Being that such possessed souls can be turned to evil via a strong corrupting power of the possessing spirit, it can turn a paladin to CE and a monk unlawful. It's just that simple. It sucks, but in D&D, evil can corrupt and thus change your alignment.
Lord of the Ninth 08-16-03, 11:27 PM	OK, but point blank, madness isn't inherently chaotic. So drop it.
RaKhan 08-17-03, 02:47 AM	Originally posted by Lord of the Ninth OK, but point blank, madness isn't inherently chaotic. So drop it. Uh...yes, it is. No, I will not drop it.
Lord of the Ninth 08-17-03, 10:16 PM	Fine, but quit bothering me with it. I don't care. If you want to talk about how insanity is inherently chaotic you can start your own thread.