Breaking the Fighter stereotype [Archive] - Wizards Community

Breaking the Fighter stereotype [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Insane Pixie
11-08-04, 10:50 AM Human Fighter 1st

STR 18
DEX 11
CON 16
INT 18
WIS 10
CHA 10

Short Sword, 1d6+4, 19-20/x2
Short Sword, 1d6+4, 19-20/x2

Leather Armor, +2 AC, 0 Armor Check, Max Dex +6, Spell Fail 5%

Other possessions

Wagon (pulled by two Light Horses)
-Bedroll
-Trail Rations (7 days)
-Tent
-Feed (14 days)

Backpack
-Flint and Steel

Waterskin

Belt Pouch
-830 CP
-24 SP

I'm trying to find a storyline for this guy...maybe a gladiator? If not, maybe a Celtic-like theme...what's the D&D equivalent of Ireland?
NOTE: He has no current Alignment or Deity...so go crazy with your storylines...
Nova_blade
11-08-04, 08:32 PM Hey, I've got a concept just like this, dual shortsword master...

Master at arms, but selects a weapon that many underestimate... the humble shortsword. Perhaps he carries a larger weapon by his side, that he uses to defeat easier opponents, but when he gets serious, the shortswords come out. Consequently, he may give up the larger weapon, but the shortswords never, ever leave his person.
fozzybear
11-08-04, 08:42 PM The Invisible Blade would be great for this, if you used knives instead of short swords. Would go well with your high intellegence. Makes people underestimate him buy using smaller weapons, then goes in for the kill while they are laughing.
Insane Pixie
11-08-04, 10:42 PM I'm not familiar with that class...is it Complete Warrior stuff?
Dispeyr
11-09-04, 05:37 AM I'm not certain if a gladiator would be the right approach here...dual shortswords and light armor may be exotic as far as the fighter stereotype is concerned, but I'd think most arena-going crowds would prefer the bloody spectacle of slashing-weapon battle.

I'd see it as a member of a less-civilized, possibly nomadic culture, one that either doesnt believe in weighing themselves down with excessive gear or simply doesn't have the wherewithal to have metal armor and massive weapons. Coming from such an environment, a few logical reasons for being out adventuring might be the restless nature of the soceity they grew up in, a need to prove their adulthood, the ever-popular "everyone was killed but me", etc. Could you give us a little detail on the campaign world this character will be played in? It'd help quite a bit...manufacturing a unique full backstory for a character from some nebulous void is a little tough for me. :confused:
Insane Pixie
11-09-04, 10:22 AM Ummm...the original gladiators in Rome used short swords called Gladius'.
nihility
11-09-04, 11:33 AM I'm not familiar with that class...is it Complete Warrior stuff?
Indeed it is. The prereqs are messed up; check out this thread for info from the author as to what they were supposed to be:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=139190

Anyway, the class seems to be in keeping with what you want: an intelligent, clever fighter that uses daggers or kukris rather than bigger weapons. Class abilities include adding your INT modifier to AC when unarmored (AC bonus capped by class level), sneak attack with daggers, extra options to feint and fake out your opponents in combat, and nice skills, as well as fighter BAB.
DV8N Coatrack
11-09-04, 01:41 PM uh how is your off hand dmg 1d6+4 shouldnt it be 1d6+2? Sorry, im just use to a picky dm and players who gain pleasur in pointing out mistakes others make.
Belladonna5012
11-09-04, 09:44 PM I don't think Dex 11 qualifies for the Two-Weapon Fighting feat you'd need to handle those swords properly, does it?

~Belladonna Knight
Callista
11-09-04, 10:16 PM Yeah, he'll want to get that feat ASAP, or risk crippling the character. And head over to the optimization board to ask for help in making it work.

Hmm... How about Net+short sword? I haven't seen that yet but it would be interesting.

You'll need power attack, of course, to make small weapons do damage...
Nova_blade
11-10-04, 01:30 AM I would recommend possibly switching DEX and CON scores, to accomodate TWF?
As for the D&D equivalent of Ireland... that depends on your campaign setting - talk it over with your DM.
Callista
11-10-04, 09:32 AM A 16 INT is enough for the effect you're trying to acheive, I think. You could put the 11 in CON, the 18 in DEX, and have a fighter who is equally good at both melee and ranged combat (not to mention very hard to hit). A high DEX also opens you up for feats that inolve sheer agility, and might fit nicely into your picture of the way this character operates. It also makes up for light armor, and give you a reason he wears light armor--he prefers to keep moving rather than just stay inside a tin can and have people batter the outside of it to bits. It'll also give him 4 points of AC he wouldn't normally have; and that can make a huge difference.

Speaking of weapons: Have you considered starting him out as a ranger? If he has any connection at all to nature, this might be an idea; the two-weapon fighting style seems to be what this guy is focusing on. Maybe an urban ranger variant?

It's really too bad you didn't roll another mid-range stat, though, to put into Charisma. He seems like the sort who understands the way people think, at the very least. Perhaps some ranks in Bluff, to underline the "Oh, it's just a short sword" trick? Either that, or put that 11 CHA in INT, the 16 in CHA, and have a fighter with normal intelligence who simply understands his opponents very, very well.

If your DM allows, you might make a Bluff check at the beginning of combat to have your humanoid opponents underestimate you. This'd be up to him/her to play out or allow, though; and I'm not a rules lawyer so I'm not sure if it's too badly unbalanced.
nihility
11-10-04, 09:56 AM You'll need power attack, of course, to make small weapons do damage...
Too bad you can't power attack with light weapons.
Airsucker
11-10-04, 03:11 PM Go with the higher dex and go the weapon finesse route. There's something to be said for a walking ginsu.

There's any number of paths to take. Former gladiator, former soldier, former thief guild muscle, community protector....
nihility
11-10-04, 03:26 PM Basic concept ideas:

The former victim. You know that smart, socially inept, skinny guy who got picked on by the local bullies? What happen if he spends a lot of time in the gym and with a local ex-soldier or veteran? Knives are an obvious weapon choice for their availabilty and ease of concealment. The education feat lets you treat all knowledges as class skills, which seems perfect for this character.

The urban ranger, mentioned before. I have a private eye or freelance detective in mind, who tracks people and hunts criminals rather than animals and monsters. Small weapons make more sense in an urban setting, and their availability is again handy.

The grappler. The knifefighter feat in PGtF lets you use certain weapons in a grapple without penalty. Combine this with Invisible Blade and perhaps Reaping Mauler, and you have a cunning fellow who enjoys latching onto the enemy and stabbing away. This could easily be a sadistic person who enjoys up-close killing, or they could be a student of a new school of fighting who is seeking to make a name for the school.

Just some ideas ^_^
Callista
11-10-04, 04:02 PM Eep. You're right, shortsword is a light weapon. My bad.
Osiris Memnoch
11-13-04, 02:16 AM You have your highest roll in strength; you fight for a living; and you make lots of melee attacks. Sounds like a fighter to me! Having 18 Int doesn't make you less of a fighter, it just makes you a fighter that is good at making strategy (kind of like the Soldier Advanced Class in d20 Modern which is essentially a modern day fighter). Looking for a cool way to break the fighter stereotype? Try the roguish-fighter variant in the 3e DM's guide. Its the same as a fighter except you only get rogue weapon and armor proficientcies, and you get 4 skill points per level and access to some rogue skills such as Bluff, Hide, and Move Silently. Try that with a Halfling and use all those lovely feats to make a master knife-thrower ( or hammer-thrower or javelin-thrower or whatever). A Halfling that fights? A fighter that not only sneaks around and Bluffs people but also specializes in ranged combat? Now THAT'S unstereotypical!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Insane Pixie 11-08-04, 10:50 AM	Human Fighter 1st STR 18 DEX 11 CON 16 INT 18 WIS 10 CHA 10 Short Sword, 1d6+4, 19-20/x2 Short Sword, 1d6+4, 19-20/x2 Leather Armor, +2 AC, 0 Armor Check, Max Dex +6, Spell Fail 5% Other possessions Wagon (pulled by two Light Horses) -Bedroll -Trail Rations (7 days) -Tent -Feed (14 days) Backpack -Flint and Steel Waterskin Belt Pouch -830 CP -24 SP I'm trying to find a storyline for this guy...maybe a gladiator? If not, maybe a Celtic-like theme...what's the D&D equivalent of Ireland? NOTE: He has no current Alignment or Deity...so go crazy with your storylines...
Nova_blade 11-08-04, 08:32 PM	Hey, I've got a concept just like this, dual shortsword master... Master at arms, but selects a weapon that many underestimate... the humble shortsword. Perhaps he carries a larger weapon by his side, that he uses to defeat easier opponents, but when he gets serious, the shortswords come out. Consequently, he may give up the larger weapon, but the shortswords never, ever leave his person.
fozzybear 11-08-04, 08:42 PM	The Invisible Blade would be great for this, if you used knives instead of short swords. Would go well with your high intellegence. Makes people underestimate him buy using smaller weapons, then goes in for the kill while they are laughing.
Insane Pixie 11-08-04, 10:42 PM	I'm not familiar with that class...is it Complete Warrior stuff?
Dispeyr 11-09-04, 05:37 AM	I'm not certain if a gladiator would be the right approach here...dual shortswords and light armor may be exotic as far as the fighter stereotype is concerned, but I'd think most arena-going crowds would prefer the bloody spectacle of slashing-weapon battle. I'd see it as a member of a less-civilized, possibly nomadic culture, one that either doesnt believe in weighing themselves down with excessive gear or simply doesn't have the wherewithal to have metal armor and massive weapons. Coming from such an environment, a few logical reasons for being out adventuring might be the restless nature of the soceity they grew up in, a need to prove their adulthood, the ever-popular "everyone was killed but me", etc. Could you give us a little detail on the campaign world this character will be played in? It'd help quite a bit...manufacturing a unique full backstory for a character from some nebulous void is a little tough for me. :confused:
Insane Pixie 11-09-04, 10:22 AM	Ummm...the original gladiators in Rome used short swords called Gladius'.
nihility 11-09-04, 11:33 AM	I'm not familiar with that class...is it Complete Warrior stuff? Indeed it is. The prereqs are messed up; check out this thread for info from the author as to what they were supposed to be: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=139190 Anyway, the class seems to be in keeping with what you want: an intelligent, clever fighter that uses daggers or kukris rather than bigger weapons. Class abilities include adding your INT modifier to AC when unarmored (AC bonus capped by class level), sneak attack with daggers, extra options to feint and fake out your opponents in combat, and nice skills, as well as fighter BAB.
DV8N Coatrack 11-09-04, 01:41 PM	uh how is your off hand dmg 1d6+4 shouldnt it be 1d6+2? Sorry, im just use to a picky dm and players who gain pleasur in pointing out mistakes others make.
Belladonna5012 11-09-04, 09:44 PM	I don't think Dex 11 qualifies for the Two-Weapon Fighting feat you'd need to handle those swords properly, does it? ~Belladonna Knight
Callista 11-09-04, 10:16 PM	Yeah, he'll want to get that feat ASAP, or risk crippling the character. And head over to the optimization board to ask for help in making it work. Hmm... How about Net+short sword? I haven't seen that yet but it would be interesting. You'll need power attack, of course, to make small weapons do damage...
Nova_blade 11-10-04, 01:30 AM	I would recommend possibly switching DEX and CON scores, to accomodate TWF? As for the D&D equivalent of Ireland... that depends on your campaign setting - talk it over with your DM.
Callista 11-10-04, 09:32 AM	A 16 INT is enough for the effect you're trying to acheive, I think. You could put the 11 in CON, the 18 in DEX, and have a fighter who is equally good at both melee and ranged combat (not to mention very hard to hit). A high DEX also opens you up for feats that inolve sheer agility, and might fit nicely into your picture of the way this character operates. It also makes up for light armor, and give you a reason he wears light armor--he prefers to keep moving rather than just stay inside a tin can and have people batter the outside of it to bits. It'll also give him 4 points of AC he wouldn't normally have; and that can make a huge difference. Speaking of weapons: Have you considered starting him out as a ranger? If he has any connection at all to nature, this might be an idea; the two-weapon fighting style seems to be what this guy is focusing on. Maybe an urban ranger variant? It's really too bad you didn't roll another mid-range stat, though, to put into Charisma. He seems like the sort who understands the way people think, at the very least. Perhaps some ranks in Bluff, to underline the "Oh, it's just a short sword" trick? Either that, or put that 11 CHA in INT, the 16 in CHA, and have a fighter with normal intelligence who simply understands his opponents very, very well. If your DM allows, you might make a Bluff check at the beginning of combat to have your humanoid opponents underestimate you. This'd be up to him/her to play out or allow, though; and I'm not a rules lawyer so I'm not sure if it's too badly unbalanced.
nihility 11-10-04, 09:56 AM	You'll need power attack, of course, to make small weapons do damage... Too bad you can't power attack with light weapons.
Airsucker 11-10-04, 03:11 PM	Go with the higher dex and go the weapon finesse route. There's something to be said for a walking ginsu. There's any number of paths to take. Former gladiator, former soldier, former thief guild muscle, community protector....
nihility 11-10-04, 03:26 PM	Basic concept ideas: The former victim. You know that smart, socially inept, skinny guy who got picked on by the local bullies? What happen if he spends a lot of time in the gym and with a local ex-soldier or veteran? Knives are an obvious weapon choice for their availabilty and ease of concealment. The education feat lets you treat all knowledges as class skills, which seems perfect for this character. The urban ranger, mentioned before. I have a private eye or freelance detective in mind, who tracks people and hunts criminals rather than animals and monsters. Small weapons make more sense in an urban setting, and their availability is again handy. The grappler. The knifefighter feat in PGtF lets you use certain weapons in a grapple without penalty. Combine this with Invisible Blade and perhaps Reaping Mauler, and you have a cunning fellow who enjoys latching onto the enemy and stabbing away. This could easily be a sadistic person who enjoys up-close killing, or they could be a student of a new school of fighting who is seeking to make a name for the school. Just some ideas ^_^
Callista 11-10-04, 04:02 PM	Eep. You're right, shortsword is a light weapon. My bad.
Osiris Memnoch 11-13-04, 02:16 AM	You have your highest roll in strength; you fight for a living; and you make lots of melee attacks. Sounds like a fighter to me! Having 18 Int doesn't make you less of a fighter, it just makes you a fighter that is good at making strategy (kind of like the Soldier Advanced Class in d20 Modern which is essentially a modern day fighter). Looking for a cool way to break the fighter stereotype? Try the roguish-fighter variant in the 3e DM's guide. Its the same as a fighter except you only get rogue weapon and armor proficientcies, and you get 4 skill points per level and access to some rogue skills such as Bluff, Hide, and Move Silently. Try that with a Halfling and use all those lovely feats to make a master knife-thrower ( or hammer-thrower or javelin-thrower or whatever). A Halfling that fights? A fighter that not only sneaks around and Bluffs people but also specializes in ranged combat? Now THAT'S unstereotypical!