Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The_Fantabulous_Pog 12-16-05, 01:20 PM	Following from the Barbarian Character Ideas thread I've become enthused with the idea of a Celtic style Barbarian. But this is not as simple as it sounds. For starters, should I base him/her upon a Scottish, Welsh or Irish model (were there Cornish Celts?)? Or what about an English tribe (Boudica ahoy!)? How do I explain the rage? Alcohol, temper, religion etc. Is a claymore and dirk the right armament - and are they in any of the equipment stats? Does he/she follow the religion of the Druids - or something else? The only things I've got worked out so far is that I want him to have a dog (guard dog, 25gp - with a cool name). Other than that I need help. Any ideas? (I feel myself watching Braveheart and driving to Loch Lomand!)
jay 12-17-05, 08:02 AM	Following from the Barbarian Character Ideas thread I've become enthused with the idea of a Celtic style Barbarian. But this is not as simple as it sounds. For starters, should I base him/her upon a Scottish, Welsh or Irish model (were there Cornish Celts?)? Or what about an English tribe (Boudica ahoy!)? Hm. What would be the difference between these "models"? In most people's minds, I think, the blue-painted, spiky-haired, Celtic berserker is a single... model. Not much difference between a Scottish and an Irish one. And even if there is a significant difference, you don't have to worry about it, if you don't want to. If you like Irish swords and Scottish dress (for example), you can just as well have your D&D Celtic-style barbarian use both. Is a claymore and dirk the right armament - and are they in any of the equipment stats? That'd be my pick, definitely. Just use bastard sword or greatsword and dagger for game stats. Does he/she follow the religion of the Druids - or something else? D&D druids never felt all that Celtic to me, but the name association is strong enough that it probably fits. However, you might also consider gods of fury or battle, if such exist in the setting. Tempus in Forgotten Realms, Morrigan in a pseudo-historical setting, something like that. The only things I've got worked out so far is that I want him to have a dog (guard dog, 25gp - with a cool name). Maybe your character could be named Culann, so your dog can be Cuchulainn. :D
AidanWindraker 12-17-05, 04:42 PM	for the Celtic Pantheon, go to the following website http://www.pantheon.org/areas/mythology/europe/celtic/articles.html As for the weapons, the claymore was a greatsword, an image is provided below http://www.medievalrepro.com/Images/claymore.JPG and yes, the Irish and Scottish Celtic Beserkers would run around in a loincloth with woad based blue paint covering their bodies with ancient runes (use the paint armor from the D&D Arms and Equipment Guide, double the usages, but allow only half the AC bonus) also, the Celts would wear bronze armor, though they where able to make it hard as iron, so just aply a cosmetic change to the armor of any non-barbarians wearing armor. Also, a celt should get a +4 bonus to checks made to control chariots due to their extensive training with them (visible in the Illiad) and fyi, most of the beserkers in the north, the Isles and the Norselands, would take a plant extract found in the Scandanavian penninsula, and exported elsewhere (Celts would trade bronze to the Viokings for the drug), that would drive them into a beserker rage. And if he is Irish, which I suggest, a few thing you need to know. 1. the High King of Ireland was ALWAYS a member of the O'Neill clan, while there was no high king when the romans occupied the region, as soon as he left, Niall took the crown in a boat race in which he cut off his hand and threw in onto the shore because he was losing. 2. Tthe Castle was in County Meath, and a flag bearing a red right hand, palm out, flanked by two Lions Rampant, also red, would be flying from the castle. 3. if it is before 412, then individual areas would would have different warlords, these warlords would be able to keep their lands after they became Niall's Thanes, so though the map is dated 1250, it does show where the individual clans ruled. http://members.aol.com/daltongene/1250a.gif yours truly, the descendendt of Niall's fourth son, and a family historian
JulesCARV 12-17-05, 05:29 PM	(HUMOR) Make him a Gallic celt (Gaul). He should be tall, fat, wear vertically striped white/blue pants, have 18 strength, maybe 8 int, and have a little dog as a pet. Also, give him a rank of "craft: stonework (menhirs, specifically)." He should come from a small village that's somehow been resisting the local Lawful Evil empire's advance with unique alchemical potions brewed by the local druid. (/HUMOR)
Caretaker 12-17-05, 06:18 PM	Also, a celt should get a +4 bonus to checks made to control chariots due to their extensive training with them (visible in the Illiad) Celts? in the Illiad? I thought the Illiad was with Trojans and Greeks, little Celts in that area of the world, I'd think. But then again, ít's been a while since I read the Illiad... And JuslCarv: ROTFLOL! If he was wearing the blue/white striped pants, he would not need the magic potions, since he would have fallen in the cauldron as a child, wouldn't he now? (If people don't know Asterix & Obelix they will probably have no idea what we're on about here)
The_Fantabulous_Pog 12-18-05, 12:39 PM	Again the fighting sped, But now the war-rage in Cuchulain woke, And through that new blade's guard the old blade broke, And pierced him. Some good stuff on this thread - keep it coming. Would a Celtic-styled Barbarian use a shield? A bow? Ride a mount? Does the pattern/colour of dress matter? I sense a cool character being born from this stuff...
Arkandor_of_Silverymoon 12-27-05, 07:56 PM	The Irish, Welsh, Scottish, etc. as races in a D&D campaign would probably have mostly the same stats (as with most dwarven subraces) The Rage? That should be as the Viking berserkers: they go into a blood panmonium for no other reason than that they love fighting. Use same stas as barbarian in the Player's Handbook. Armament: I like the sound of: Dual-wielding a handaxe and a shortsword/longsword. Two-hand weapon could be a claymore (maybe a greatsword, change some of the stats?) or a large battleaxe. Ranged weapon would absolutely have to be either a) darts or b) javelins. Religion: Either Tempus (because of barbarian, rage), Ehlonna/Obad-hai (most ancient Celts were nature fanatics), or Kord (because of their strong lifestyle). Dog: Not trying to change your mind, but maybe you should have a couple of ranks in Handle Animal and try and turn a wolf to your companion[?] But, a dog would not be too bad. A good character name might be: Celyddon(myth name, Father of Culhwch) A name for a wolf or a dog might be: Drudwyn(myth name, Mabon's dog) Just some suggestions: The path is yours to choose.
Pandaemoni 12-28-05, 12:18 AM	I think the Gallic celts are a decent choice. If nothing else, almost everything we know about the actual druids and celtic warfare techniques comes from them (or rather from Julius Caesar's description of them in his "De Bello Gallico"). Celtic religion was complex and not entirely druidic, though they did serve as priests and community leaders for many tribes. As noted above, though, the celts had many different deities and were not "nature worshipers" the way druids tend to be presented in the game. The rage is not too hard to explain, as celts were known to work themselves into a frenzy of shouting (according to Caesar) in an effort to unnerve their opponents. Technically the claymore is a bit of an anachronism for celts...it simply was developed too late, but for game purposes using a great sword works well. Assuming the Gauls don't appeal to you then, I'd probably look up the welsh, irish and scottish folklore (or even peruse Macpherson's Works of Ossian, as Ossian and those whom the stories describe were semi-realistic "Scots" warrior celts). Some of that was pieced together from actual celtic folklore from Scotland and Ireland, some of it Macpherson made up himself, but it was good enough that he fooled everyone into thinking it was completely authentic for quite a while. It is the Scottish Kalevala, in that sense, and helped springboard the Romantic movement. (In a sense there was no real distinction between "Scots Celts"and "Irish Celts" as there no convincing evidence that there were any significant differences in their culture apart from a few alternative spellings of names...many of which arose well after the Celts were gone, as spellings were not standardized until much later in European history, and the Celts themselves were not a literate society until after they had been romanized and adopted the Roman alphabet). I'm sure Wikipedia has decent summaries of all of them if you don't have time to read the original works directly (and likely has modern English translations to much of them in its associated links). The trick is that (much like the later arthurian legends) that you will need to update the culture to fit your campaign. Real Celts as a society didn't really survive the Romans, but romanized/christianized into the new cultures. Per my signature, I'd also recommend you read a good modern translation of the Old English Beowulf, if you haven't already (Seamus Heaneys 2001 translation is excellent, though there are free translations available online as well). Beowulf and the characters presented in it are very much in the Celtic tradition in the first two parts, which were likely based on pre-Christian takes of life in western Europe. You can glean a lot about old English views of combat and bloodshed for it (and roughly discover that they were, at least philosophically, real-life Klingons). The third part of Beowulf was written later and has some early-medieval Christian influences that the earlier parts lack, but the first two tales (where he fights Grendel and Grendel's Mother) are ideal for creating a non-Norse barbarian.
The_Fantabulous_Pog 12-29-05, 05:45 AM	Thanks for the stuff... I'm thinking an Irish/Scottish style Barbarian, who follows some sort of nature religion (but not very closely), armed and equipped (anacronistically) with claymore (greatsword) and dirk, and who has a dog (or similar) as an animal companion. Just a few remaining questions: 1) Would he use a projectile or thrown ranged weapons? 2) Would he be from an agricultural or hunting community? 3) Assuming a Beowulf mentality - what alignment would he be? 4) Should be a straight Barbarian class - or multi-classed with Scout, Ranager, Druid etc. Thanks for the input ... this will turn out to be fun character for next year!
Pandaemoni 12-30-05, 01:18 AM	1) Would he use a projectile or thrown ranged weapons? Interesting question. Oddly, there is no evidence that Celts ever used bows and arrows, though they certainly used javelins (and atlatls) and throwing spears. I can't recall anything about throwing axes...though the Germans surely had them a few centuries later (the Germans had bows as well, though). 2) Would he be from an agricultural or hunting community? Not necessarily. While most lived in farming villages, there were larger towns (that served as economic hubs) and larger fortified cities guarding key trade routs (and also serving as economic hubs). Metalwork was common and advanced and they plainly imported goods from as far away as Asia Minor (and likely further though perhaps not regularly), suggesting that they had a non-agricultural "trading class." As with most of modern society likely most people hunted game either ritually or to supplement their diets in hard times, rather than as their primary source of sustenance. Meat would have come primarily from cattle which tended to be kept communally by villages or clans. 3) Assuming a Beowulf mentality - what alignment would he be? Hard to say. There was a definite and strong sense of "honor" as being important (which seems like a lawful trait), but they were not a society of "laws" in the sense we are, and also appeared to regularly exaggerate their own accomplishments which suggests a great degree of personal autonomy and a chaotic nature. Like people today, I'm sure they ran the gamut. Beowulf himself seemed to be pretty itinerant--wandering around doing what he wanted when he wanted--though he demanded he be shown great respect form those around him (and offered it in return to those he saw as his equals or betters). If I had to classify him I'd guess he was Neutral leaning Neutral Good, but mainly because he didn't think a great deal about his own morality. He was more about slaughtering monsters. 4) Should be a straight Barbarian class - or multi-classed with Scout, Ranager, Druid etc. I put that down to preference. Certainly Beowulf was more of a Barbarian type. You could probably fit any core character class into that tradition. Certainly there were references to others noting the "tracks" of enemies in Beowulf. In legend there were also certainly sorcerers/wizards (actually more likely the former I'd think than the book learning latter, since the Celts had no written language). They had trade, and trade breeds thieves, hence rogues. Celtic bards are probably the most famous variety of Celt thanks to the likes of Ossian. Celtic druids actually existed and at least some of them definitely worshipped and acted as intermediaries to the pantheon of Celtic gods (hence, though called "druids" many were no doubt very much like "clerics").
BadCatMan 12-30-05, 02:02 AM	In one of the ancient sources on Alexander the Great (Arrian, I think), the local Celtic tribes swear fealty to Alexander, and mention that they are afraid of nothing except the sky falling on their heads. The Asterix comics are surprisingly well-versed in the classics, so feel free to steal from them. The Magic Potion is good replacement for Rage too. :D Of course, you don't want to be too cartoony, but you get the idea. If you're not playing in a historical campaign, then grab whatever seemed coolest from whatever era or location to you (which is standard procedure in D&D). And go into battle completely naked, covered only in woad, whose prime ingredients are woad berries and your own semen. Your character, I mean, not you. Unless that is your thing. :p Work out some woad stats with your DM, unless its already been done somewhere. Woad paint has odd reflective properties that cause a warrior to shimmer, so I think it should should give miss chances / concealment in low-light conditions. And some sort of morale bonus to attack. Increases the bonuses if you go naked, and more if you use semen. Also throw in a morale bonus to dodge AC when naked. Then woad rage.