Challenge: Half-orc druid/sorc/AH [Archive] - Wizards Community

Challenge: Half-orc druid/sorc/AH [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sybill
12-09-06, 12:03 PM Well, the title basically sums it up... for roleplaying reasons I want to play a half-orc druid/sorc going into AH. I'm looking for ideas on how to get past the cha hit, as well as how to effectively play the character (never played a druid or ah before).

The character won't be very melee-centered, as the party has quite a bit of that already... more a support character and some backup healing.

Thanks in advance
Reversefigure4
12-09-06, 11:44 PM The CHA hit won't really matter as long as you can still get a high enough number in CHA before adjustments. Put a 15 in there, it lowers to 13 - easily playable. 18 goes down to 16, still a very powerful casting stat.
TheAnthroDM
12-10-06, 12:43 AM The CHA hit won't really matter as long as you can still get a high enough number in CHA before adjustments. Put a 15 in there, it lowers to 13 - easily playable. 18 goes down to 16, still a very powerful casting stat. Did you just call 13 Cha easily playable for a sorcerer? :eek:
Fithero
12-10-06, 08:01 AM Yeah... i gotta agree with TheAnthroDM, i think 14 is the lowest casting stat that you can have, yet still be able to get 9th lvl spells (at 20th lvl)

But, if your playing it for role playing reasons, a weaker character shouldnt matter too much.

As long as you have fun, i say :P

Peace
Reversefigure4
12-10-06, 04:08 PM Did you just call 13 Cha easily playable for a sorcerer? :eek:

Why not? Assuming you put your ability score increases into Cha, you'll have 14 at lvl 4, 15 at 8th, 16 at 12th (the same time you learn to cast level 6 spells).

The first place you run into a problem is level 14, where you qualify for 7th levels spells but lack the 17 Cha required to cast them. By this stage, you really should have some sort of Charisma boosting item which compensates.

Admittedly, if you're running a game where you have no access to stat boosting magical items by level 14, you'll have a problem. But if that's the case, your game is out of whack with the CR system anyway and the DM will need to make adjustments.

I like the idea of a druid sorceror, too - "I draw on the world within me and the world without for my power".
TheAnthroDM
12-10-06, 05:30 PM The first place you run into a problem is level 14, where you qualify for 7th levels spells but lack the 17 Cha required to cast them. By this stage, you really should have some sort of Charisma boosting item which compensates.
Yeah... I hate to break this to you, but you can't use magic items to get grant you access to higher levels of spells. Just like having that headband on Int doesn't give your rogue more skill point when he levels up.

EDIT: Also do you just like to Nuke your spellcasting DCs?

"I cast Charm Person on the Fighter!"
"What DC"
"uhh.. lets see I have a +1 bonus and the spell level's 1, so DCs 12"
"..... you fail"
"but you didn't roll"
"I don't need to.. you fail"
Reversefigure4
12-10-06, 10:04 PM Yeah... I hate to break this to you, but you can't use magic items to get grant you access to higher levels of spells. Just like having that headband on Int doesn't give your rogue more skill point when he levels up.

Really? Then I've misunderstood the spellcasting system. Apologies. My understanding was that a 14 in the casting stat would allow you 4th level spells when you gained access to them (and so forth to 19 for 9th level) - and that it didn't matter how this stat had been reached (natural, item, Eagle's Splendor, etc).

Got a page ref to were it states only natural ability scores count to spellcasting capability? I'll need to point it out to my DM.

In that case, I think a 14 CHA is the minimum needed (fast math, possibly wrong), which will be a 16 for your half-orc. Much harder to get.

I'm not saying it's the greatest build of all time or anything, but it's quite possible.
FeceMan
12-10-06, 10:27 PM Really? Then I've misunderstood the spellcasting system. Apologies. My understanding was that a 14 in the casting stat would allow you 4th level spells when you gained access to them (and so forth to 19 for 9th level) - and that it didn't matter how this stat had been reached (natural, item, Eagle's Splendor, etc).

Got a page ref to were it states only natural ability scores count to spellcasting capability? I'll need to point it out to my DM.
I believe this constitutes a "lol, pwned" moment.

In order to effectively play this character, you need to roll stats or have a ridiculously high point buy game.

Why? Because, in order to have a playable casting stat--I agree that 14 is the minimum for a straight caster--you have to spend ten points to get your CHA score feasible rather than the normal six. (Again, talking bare minimums here.) Not to mention that you'll also need to bolster your INT score due to the idiotic statistical "balances" the half-orc suffers. Furthermore, you have to concentrate on TWO casting stats rather than one, hurting your viability even more.

If you are dead-set on sorcerer, I would recommend grabbing battlefield control spells such as Evard's black tentacles as well as looking through some of the new sorcerer-only spells in CMage. If you want to heal, I would suggest the "spontaneous healer" feat from CDivine.
Taureus_Drakken
12-11-06, 01:21 AM The desert variant from UA has no Cha penalty...Dex instead.

Hope that isn't too much of a slap in the face for your build...just put a higher stat in Dex than in Int or Str...if you focus on the spellcasting this won't be a problem.
TheAnthroDM
12-11-06, 01:22 AM Really? Then I've misunderstood the spellcasting system. Apologies. My understanding was that a 14 in the casting stat would allow you 4th level spells when you gained access to them (and so forth to 19 for 9th level) - and that it didn't matter how this stat had been reached (natural, item, Eagle's Splendor, etc).

Got a page ref to were it states only natural ability scores count to spellcasting capability? I'll need to point it out to my DM.

In that case, I think a 14 CHA is the minimum needed (fast math, possibly wrong), which will be a 16 for your half-orc. Much harder to get.

I'm not saying it's the greatest build of all time or anything, but it's quite possible.

14 is correct, unfortunately I can't point out an exact page for reference, but for some reference check out the text of Eagles Splendor, and it should not the inability to reach the minimum stat with that an enhancment bonus(Only inheret bonuses like those from wish, the normal stat, and the one you get from leveling count)
Zolvanas
12-11-06, 05:44 AM I also allow permanent magical items to let characters access bonus spells and higher spell levels and have a higher spell save DC, as I don't know of any source stating that it's not allowed.
Eagle's splendor shouldn't give you any bonus spells as long as you don't meditate for them, but still boosts your spell save DCs.

Another way to substitute for your low charisma is taking the Spellcasting Prodigy feat from Player's Guide to the Forgotten Realms. It doesn't improve your save DCs, but at least you get extra bonus spells.

If your DM doesn't allow you access higher spell levels through magic item enhancement bonuses only, maybe he's at least nice enough to bring in some special quest for a certain tome or set of tomes; or let you come across some creature ready to spend a wish or its divine power on you, if you do it a favor. ;-)

---

Also chose arcane spells which do not allow saves such as magic missile. You could also focus on ray and ranged touch spells (maybe going for a 14 dex score), which also rarely ask for saves in addition to the ranged touch attack.
Daxen
12-11-06, 10:22 PM Talk to your DM an see if you can take a 2 point hit in strength for two more points if you are using point buy.

The way I read the requirements you would have to be 5th level in each to qualify anyway which would limit you to a max of 15th caster in each which tops out at 7th level for Sorcerers and 8th level Druid for spells. If there is a way to do it before then I am sure someone will mention it.

Aquisition of 9th level spells is often considered paramount for a spell caster, but you will certainly be versatile. It's all how you want to play it.

Getting a 17 and 18 respectivey is possible, but it will come at the sacrifice of utility in almost any other facet.

Str:8
Dex:8
Con:8
Int:13
Wis:16
Cha:15

4th level: INT (you need the skill points)
8th level: CHA
12th level:WIS
14th level:WIS
16th level:CHA
20th level: Whatever you want

Ouch I say.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sybill 12-09-06, 12:03 PM	Well, the title basically sums it up... for roleplaying reasons I want to play a half-orc druid/sorc going into AH. I'm looking for ideas on how to get past the cha hit, as well as how to effectively play the character (never played a druid or ah before). The character won't be very melee-centered, as the party has quite a bit of that already... more a support character and some backup healing. Thanks in advance
Reversefigure4 12-09-06, 11:44 PM	The CHA hit won't really matter as long as you can still get a high enough number in CHA before adjustments. Put a 15 in there, it lowers to 13 - easily playable. 18 goes down to 16, still a very powerful casting stat.
TheAnthroDM 12-10-06, 12:43 AM	The CHA hit won't really matter as long as you can still get a high enough number in CHA before adjustments. Put a 15 in there, it lowers to 13 - easily playable. 18 goes down to 16, still a very powerful casting stat. Did you just call 13 Cha easily playable for a sorcerer? :eek:
Fithero 12-10-06, 08:01 AM	Yeah... i gotta agree with TheAnthroDM, i think 14 is the lowest casting stat that you can have, yet still be able to get 9th lvl spells (at 20th lvl) But, if your playing it for role playing reasons, a weaker character shouldnt matter too much. As long as you have fun, i say :P Peace
Reversefigure4 12-10-06, 04:08 PM	Did you just call 13 Cha easily playable for a sorcerer? :eek: Why not? Assuming you put your ability score increases into Cha, you'll have 14 at lvl 4, 15 at 8th, 16 at 12th (the same time you learn to cast level 6 spells). The first place you run into a problem is level 14, where you qualify for 7th levels spells but lack the 17 Cha required to cast them. By this stage, you really should have some sort of Charisma boosting item which compensates. Admittedly, if you're running a game where you have no access to stat boosting magical items by level 14, you'll have a problem. But if that's the case, your game is out of whack with the CR system anyway and the DM will need to make adjustments. I like the idea of a druid sorceror, too - "I draw on the world within me and the world without for my power".
TheAnthroDM 12-10-06, 05:30 PM	The first place you run into a problem is level 14, where you qualify for 7th levels spells but lack the 17 Cha required to cast them. By this stage, you really should have some sort of Charisma boosting item which compensates. Yeah... I hate to break this to you, but you can't use magic items to get grant you access to higher levels of spells. Just like having that headband on Int doesn't give your rogue more skill point when he levels up. EDIT: Also do you just like to Nuke your spellcasting DCs? "I cast Charm Person on the Fighter!" "What DC" "uhh.. lets see I have a +1 bonus and the spell level's 1, so DCs 12" "..... you fail" "but you didn't roll" "I don't need to.. you fail"
Reversefigure4 12-10-06, 10:04 PM	Yeah... I hate to break this to you, but you can't use magic items to get grant you access to higher levels of spells. Just like having that headband on Int doesn't give your rogue more skill point when he levels up. Really? Then I've misunderstood the spellcasting system. Apologies. My understanding was that a 14 in the casting stat would allow you 4th level spells when you gained access to them (and so forth to 19 for 9th level) - and that it didn't matter how this stat had been reached (natural, item, Eagle's Splendor, etc). Got a page ref to were it states only natural ability scores count to spellcasting capability? I'll need to point it out to my DM. In that case, I think a 14 CHA is the minimum needed (fast math, possibly wrong), which will be a 16 for your half-orc. Much harder to get. I'm not saying it's the greatest build of all time or anything, but it's quite possible.
FeceMan 12-10-06, 10:27 PM	Really? Then I've misunderstood the spellcasting system. Apologies. My understanding was that a 14 in the casting stat would allow you 4th level spells when you gained access to them (and so forth to 19 for 9th level) - and that it didn't matter how this stat had been reached (natural, item, Eagle's Splendor, etc). Got a page ref to were it states only natural ability scores count to spellcasting capability? I'll need to point it out to my DM. I believe this constitutes a "lol, pwned" moment. In order to effectively play this character, you need to roll stats or have a ridiculously high point buy game. Why? Because, in order to have a playable casting stat--I agree that 14 is the minimum for a straight caster--you have to spend ten points to get your CHA score feasible rather than the normal six. (Again, talking bare minimums here.) Not to mention that you'll also need to bolster your INT score due to the idiotic statistical "balances" the half-orc suffers. Furthermore, you have to concentrate on TWO casting stats rather than one, hurting your viability even more. If you are dead-set on sorcerer, I would recommend grabbing battlefield control spells such as Evard's black tentacles as well as looking through some of the new sorcerer-only spells in CMage. If you want to heal, I would suggest the "spontaneous healer" feat from CDivine.
Taureus_Drakken 12-11-06, 01:21 AM	The desert variant from UA has no Cha penalty...Dex instead. Hope that isn't too much of a slap in the face for your build...just put a higher stat in Dex than in Int or Str...if you focus on the spellcasting this won't be a problem.
TheAnthroDM 12-11-06, 01:22 AM	Really? Then I've misunderstood the spellcasting system. Apologies. My understanding was that a 14 in the casting stat would allow you 4th level spells when you gained access to them (and so forth to 19 for 9th level) - and that it didn't matter how this stat had been reached (natural, item, Eagle's Splendor, etc). Got a page ref to were it states only natural ability scores count to spellcasting capability? I'll need to point it out to my DM. In that case, I think a 14 CHA is the minimum needed (fast math, possibly wrong), which will be a 16 for your half-orc. Much harder to get. I'm not saying it's the greatest build of all time or anything, but it's quite possible. 14 is correct, unfortunately I can't point out an exact page for reference, but for some reference check out the text of Eagles Splendor, and it should not the inability to reach the minimum stat with that an enhancment bonus(Only inheret bonuses like those from wish, the normal stat, and the one you get from leveling count)
Zolvanas 12-11-06, 05:44 AM	I also allow permanent magical items to let characters access bonus spells and higher spell levels and have a higher spell save DC, as I don't know of any source stating that it's not allowed. Eagle's splendor shouldn't give you any bonus spells as long as you don't meditate for them, but still boosts your spell save DCs. Another way to substitute for your low charisma is taking the Spellcasting Prodigy feat from Player's Guide to the Forgotten Realms. It doesn't improve your save DCs, but at least you get extra bonus spells. If your DM doesn't allow you access higher spell levels through magic item enhancement bonuses only, maybe he's at least nice enough to bring in some special quest for a certain tome or set of tomes; or let you come across some creature ready to spend a wish or its divine power on you, if you do it a favor. ;-) --- Also chose arcane spells which do not allow saves such as magic missile. You could also focus on ray and ranged touch spells (maybe going for a 14 dex score), which also rarely ask for saves in addition to the ranged touch attack.
Daxen 12-11-06, 10:22 PM	Talk to your DM an see if you can take a 2 point hit in strength for two more points if you are using point buy. The way I read the requirements you would have to be 5th level in each to qualify anyway which would limit you to a max of 15th caster in each which tops out at 7th level for Sorcerers and 8th level Druid for spells. If there is a way to do it before then I am sure someone will mention it. Aquisition of 9th level spells is often considered paramount for a spell caster, but you will certainly be versatile. It's all how you want to play it. Getting a 17 and 18 respectivey is possible, but it will come at the sacrifice of utility in almost any other facet. Str:8 Dex:8 Con:8 Int:13 Wis:16 Cha:15 4th level: INT (you need the skill points) 8th level: CHA 12th level:WIS 14th level:WIS 16th level:CHA 20th level: Whatever you want Ouch I say.