Character concept, any tips? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Character concept, any tips? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Nephite
11-14-04, 11:55 AM It's kinda lengthy, but I bolded all the important stuff so you should be able to skip what you don't want to read.

The Basics

Norm "Fnipper" Nackle
1st level Gnomish Rogue

Alignment: CN
God: Olidammara

Age: 54
Gender: M

Height: 3'3"
Weight: 43 pounds
Eyes: Various shades of blue. They tend to be deeper colors when he is relaxed, but they get brighter when he is excited. Usually this constitutes when he is about to play a prank or the like.
Hair: Light brown, wavy
Skin: Brown, close to the color of a tree in spring

Ability scores:
Str: 12 +1
Dex: 16 +3
Con: 15 +2
Int: 15 +2
Wis: 12 +1
Cha: 15 +2

Skills (all have 4 ranks, includes ability scores and miscellaneous modifiers):
Bluff: +6
Craft (alchemy): +8
Diplomacy: +8
Escape Artist: +7
Hide: +7
Intimidate: +6
Move Silently: +7
Sense Motive: +7
Sleight of Hand: +7
Tumble: +7

Weapons/Armor/Gear (Gear only shown where it differs from Rogue starting package):
Long sword (+2 attack, d6+1 damage)
Dagger (+2 attack, d3+1 damage)
Leather Armor (+2 AC, 0 ACP, Max Dex 6)
10 candles
No hooded lantern, oil, or thieves tools
82 GP
2 SP

Feats:
Negotiator

Languages:
Gnome, Common, Dwarven, Goblin

Personality/History:

Norm (pronounced in the "Gnomish" way, Putting a "Ga" sound in front of all N's that start a word, so it sounds like Ga-Norm) is an urban rogue in all meanings of the word. Instead of working for a living, he lives off the "gratitude" of others, as he calls it. He has worked on perfecting both his pick-pocketing skills; to receive this "gratitude", and his ability to lie and talk others out of what they think happened; in the rare chance that they notice what he has done. So enthralled is he in dealing with others that he has shunned the "typical" rogue skills of being able to find and disable traps and open locks.

Norm delights in confusion and chaos. He will often begin speaking in another language, sometimes using multiple ones in the same sentence, merely to confuse people (particularly those he is bartering with). If he feels someone is being idiotic, he will use his "Speak with burrowing mammal" ability on a person.

Norm talks fondly of his childhood, which he left behind to make his living in the city. Often times his twin brother, Dimple (Rogue 1, Paladin 2), will be the butt of many of his jokes; for the simple sake that Norm sees no use in being pious or the ideals of good and law. Despite his words, he loves his brother fondly. While growing both himself and his brother worked together on the rogue skills Norm (and in effect, Dimple) now have. This often got them in trouble with the local authorities, but their parents, their temple and their leadership (all Gnomes) all respected a good practical joke, so more often than not they were let off the hook (thanks, in part, to Norm and Dimple's ability to talk their way out of nearly anything).

Shortly before Norm left his home village for the town he now inhabits, Dimple received a "call to glory" of some sorts. Immediately he converted to the God Heironeous and set out, hoping to start a "Holy Crusade" against all evil. It is this that Norm often makes fun of his brother about.

Future character development:

I want to keep Norm as a rogue until 3rd level (2d6 for sneak attack). During this time he will often have dreams of various sorts, usually calling him to take up a call to join his brother in battle. His original reply will be "I told that fool where to shove it", but eventually he will have a strong dream that will convert him to Heironeous and LG, and his next level will be paladin (in effect making him Rogue 3 Paladin 1). Since this will be at 4th level, I'll be able to bump up his Charisma to 16 and give him a bonus to his paladin abilities (as well as Diplomacy, which is basically what he's built around).

I have this set up so I should be able to get a diplomacy of +15 at second level, and at third I am going to take either TWF or SF (Diplomacy) to give him an even bigger bonus.

Eventually I want him to be able to use his dagger and longsword at the same time, though when he converts to paladin I'll drop the dagger and pick up a scimitar, as well as buying a masterwork longsword (called Smighter), and, eventually, a masterwork scimitar (not sure of the name, I'm thinking something along the line of "Pig-sticker").

Occasionally, Norm will drop back into his "old" habits. This may involve things such as picking something off a person to "donate" to his cause, bluffing his way out of a bad situation, or sneaking around to take advantage of his sneak attack.

Since I plan on doing this, Norm will need a few atonement spells, and eventually will convert to Carl Glittergold to have a God that doesn't "Have a stick up his rear end".

And of course he'll eventually be kicked out of paladin entirely. When that happens I'll either send him back to rogue, or perhaps dip into Shadow Dancer. Hell, maybe I'll make him become a Monk until he gets kicked out of that.

One last note. While he’s a paladin, he will constantly have detect evil on. Everytime he senses something evil, he’ll yell “SMIGHT” and attack.

Things I'm thinking of changing:

Strength vs Intelligence:
I haven't exactly built Norm for combat, but there are some things I can change to make him slightly better off. The score in strength is actually a 14, so I could switch strength and intelligence and still have the same modifiers. This way, however, I can add a skill point into strength at 8th level to give him +2, instead of adding to intelligence as I planned.

Dexterity vs Charisma:
This is one I've been debating over for a while. Dexterity is what makes up most of his rogue-ish abilities, and what I want to build his early character around (Sleight of hand). However, Charisma is what I want to build his character around from the beginning to the end (Diplomacy), just not as much sleight of hand until he reaches 4th level. He isn't built to fight, he is built to smack someone then convince them it wasn't him.

Beginning feat:
I have several choices here. These are what I'm thinking of taking:
-Negotiator (currently)
-Skill Focus (Diplomacy)
-Deft Hands
-Skill Focus (Sleight of hand)
-Two weapon fighting (If not now, at third level. If at first, then Negotiator or SF (Diplomacy) at third.)

I'm really not sure how to go on this.

Skill choice:
I'm really not sure on the several of the skills. The only ones I know for a fact I want are diplomacy and sleight of hand (and sense motive if I take the Negotiator feat). Craft (alchemy) seems a little out of place on the list. I could switch it to knowledge (nobility). That skill wouldn't make sense either, but it's something I need if I want my +15 in diplomacy. I'm sure with a little work, though, I could put either in his back-story.

Also I've thought of switching some of my skills for open lock and forgery, merely for the fact that faking signatures would be something he would do, and I can see him breaking into an attic to sleep in it at night, then leaving the next morning without letting them know.

Last words:
All right, I'm finally done. Tell me what you think, I really want to make this character good!

(Note: I traded some starting items in and couldn't find anything else I wanted, hence how I have 82gp at the very start)

(Last note: Read it all and you get a quarter)
MetalGemini
11-14-04, 04:10 PM Story sounds great.

As far as the mechanics go, I'd suggest maybe checking out Bard as a first class instead of Rogue. You'll lose some skill points, but gain some fun spells and bardic music to "coax" the people into being liberal with the gratitude. (i.e fascinate) Bard utilizes Charisma better than Rogues as well.
Sorry, but your feats make me cringe. Unless your campaign will be totally lacking combat, you're going to be better off with feats like Dodge, TWF, or Weapon Finesse. Especially if you go paladin, take weapon finesse and a rapier or short sword for better results. The only stats I might change are Con & Wis. Swap those and get paladin spells or monk bonus to AC.

Hope that helps a bit.
Raziel_Brokodar
12-06-04, 06:56 PM GTLGB
Got To Love Gnome Backgrounds!!!!
Good stuff!!!!!!

The names are brilliant!!! AH HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! :D

As MetalGemini said, your feats are your only bad thing. They aren't useful in the long term. Sure they boost you in the beginning, but pick more useful feats, ones that can be built upon and used in the later levels.

Other than that, it's great.
MonkeyPaladin
12-07-04, 04:22 PM Nice background. Wouldn't it be Gnorm, pronounced Norm, since the G is silent in gnome, not the other way around?

Switching Int and Str might be good. Adding a point to Int isn't really that good unless you're a wizard, since you don't retroactively pick up skill points. Adding to strength would be more beneficial, especially if you're going for a paladin later on. Dex and Charisma I would leave alone, you can bump Chr later to make it even, and dexterity is more beneficial right now. Leave Con where it is.

Metal Gemini has a point. First off, if you multiclass the way you are now, you'll get penalized, whereas with bard you have your racial favored class and that's not an issue. You don't have any rogue exclusive skills like Open Locks or Disable Device anyway, so the only thing you'd really give up is sneak attacks, which would just have maxed out at 2d6 anyway, so no major loss. As a bard you'd get spells, some charisma abilities to go with your con man concept, and a better will save (which would otherwise be an issue for several levels as neither rogues nor paladins have good will saves.) You replace intimidate with perform and drop Craft: alchemy (you can buy that stuff anyway) and maybe drop escape artist for now.

I also agree about the feats. I'd recommend point blank shot, dodge, or improved initiative. Negotiator is not really worth it considering you already have good ranks in those skills, and you need some kind of combat ability. I don't think you can take weapon finesse without a point of base attack though, Gemini.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nephite 11-14-04, 11:55 AM	It's kinda lengthy, but I bolded all the important stuff so you should be able to skip what you don't want to read. The Basics Norm "Fnipper" Nackle 1st level Gnomish Rogue Alignment: CN God: Olidammara Age: 54 Gender: M Height: 3'3" Weight: 43 pounds Eyes: Various shades of blue. They tend to be deeper colors when he is relaxed, but they get brighter when he is excited. Usually this constitutes when he is about to play a prank or the like. Hair: Light brown, wavy Skin: Brown, close to the color of a tree in spring Ability scores: Str: 12 +1 Dex: 16 +3 Con: 15 +2 Int: 15 +2 Wis: 12 +1 Cha: 15 +2 Skills (all have 4 ranks, includes ability scores and miscellaneous modifiers): Bluff: +6 Craft (alchemy): +8 Diplomacy: +8 Escape Artist: +7 Hide: +7 Intimidate: +6 Move Silently: +7 Sense Motive: +7 Sleight of Hand: +7 Tumble: +7 Weapons/Armor/Gear (Gear only shown where it differs from Rogue starting package): Long sword (+2 attack, d6+1 damage) Dagger (+2 attack, d3+1 damage) Leather Armor (+2 AC, 0 ACP, Max Dex 6) 10 candles No hooded lantern, oil, or thieves tools 82 GP 2 SP Feats: Negotiator Languages: Gnome, Common, Dwarven, Goblin Personality/History: Norm (pronounced in the "Gnomish" way, Putting a "Ga" sound in front of all N's that start a word, so it sounds like Ga-Norm) is an urban rogue in all meanings of the word. Instead of working for a living, he lives off the "gratitude" of others, as he calls it. He has worked on perfecting both his pick-pocketing skills; to receive this "gratitude", and his ability to lie and talk others out of what they think happened; in the rare chance that they notice what he has done. So enthralled is he in dealing with others that he has shunned the "typical" rogue skills of being able to find and disable traps and open locks. Norm delights in confusion and chaos. He will often begin speaking in another language, sometimes using multiple ones in the same sentence, merely to confuse people (particularly those he is bartering with). If he feels someone is being idiotic, he will use his "Speak with burrowing mammal" ability on a person. Norm talks fondly of his childhood, which he left behind to make his living in the city. Often times his twin brother, Dimple (Rogue 1, Paladin 2), will be the butt of many of his jokes; for the simple sake that Norm sees no use in being pious or the ideals of good and law. Despite his words, he loves his brother fondly. While growing both himself and his brother worked together on the rogue skills Norm (and in effect, Dimple) now have. This often got them in trouble with the local authorities, but their parents, their temple and their leadership (all Gnomes) all respected a good practical joke, so more often than not they were let off the hook (thanks, in part, to Norm and Dimple's ability to talk their way out of nearly anything). Shortly before Norm left his home village for the town he now inhabits, Dimple received a "call to glory" of some sorts. Immediately he converted to the God Heironeous and set out, hoping to start a "Holy Crusade" against all evil. It is this that Norm often makes fun of his brother about. Future character development: I want to keep Norm as a rogue until 3rd level (2d6 for sneak attack). During this time he will often have dreams of various sorts, usually calling him to take up a call to join his brother in battle. His original reply will be "I told that fool where to shove it", but eventually he will have a strong dream that will convert him to Heironeous and LG, and his next level will be paladin (in effect making him Rogue 3 Paladin 1). Since this will be at 4th level, I'll be able to bump up his Charisma to 16 and give him a bonus to his paladin abilities (as well as Diplomacy, which is basically what he's built around). I have this set up so I should be able to get a diplomacy of +15 at second level, and at third I am going to take either TWF or SF (Diplomacy) to give him an even bigger bonus. Eventually I want him to be able to use his dagger and longsword at the same time, though when he converts to paladin I'll drop the dagger and pick up a scimitar, as well as buying a masterwork longsword (called Smighter), and, eventually, a masterwork scimitar (not sure of the name, I'm thinking something along the line of "Pig-sticker"). Occasionally, Norm will drop back into his "old" habits. This may involve things such as picking something off a person to "donate" to his cause, bluffing his way out of a bad situation, or sneaking around to take advantage of his sneak attack. Since I plan on doing this, Norm will need a few atonement spells, and eventually will convert to Carl Glittergold to have a God that doesn't "Have a stick up his rear end". And of course he'll eventually be kicked out of paladin entirely. When that happens I'll either send him back to rogue, or perhaps dip into Shadow Dancer. Hell, maybe I'll make him become a Monk until he gets kicked out of that. One last note. While he’s a paladin, he will constantly have detect evil on. Everytime he senses something evil, he’ll yell “SMIGHT” and attack. Things I'm thinking of changing: Strength vs Intelligence: I haven't exactly built Norm for combat, but there are some things I can change to make him slightly better off. The score in strength is actually a 14, so I could switch strength and intelligence and still have the same modifiers. This way, however, I can add a skill point into strength at 8th level to give him +2, instead of adding to intelligence as I planned. Dexterity vs Charisma: This is one I've been debating over for a while. Dexterity is what makes up most of his rogue-ish abilities, and what I want to build his early character around (Sleight of hand). However, Charisma is what I want to build his character around from the beginning to the end (Diplomacy), just not as much sleight of hand until he reaches 4th level. He isn't built to fight, he is built to smack someone then convince them it wasn't him. Beginning feat: I have several choices here. These are what I'm thinking of taking: -Negotiator (currently) -Skill Focus (Diplomacy) -Deft Hands -Skill Focus (Sleight of hand) -Two weapon fighting (If not now, at third level. If at first, then Negotiator or SF (Diplomacy) at third.) I'm really not sure how to go on this. Skill choice: I'm really not sure on the several of the skills. The only ones I know for a fact I want are diplomacy and sleight of hand (and sense motive if I take the Negotiator feat). Craft (alchemy) seems a little out of place on the list. I could switch it to knowledge (nobility). That skill wouldn't make sense either, but it's something I need if I want my +15 in diplomacy. I'm sure with a little work, though, I could put either in his back-story. Also I've thought of switching some of my skills for open lock and forgery, merely for the fact that faking signatures would be something he would do, and I can see him breaking into an attic to sleep in it at night, then leaving the next morning without letting them know. Last words: All right, I'm finally done. Tell me what you think, I really want to make this character good! (Note: I traded some starting items in and couldn't find anything else I wanted, hence how I have 82gp at the very start) (Last note: Read it all and you get a quarter)
MetalGemini 11-14-04, 04:10 PM	Story sounds great. As far as the mechanics go, I'd suggest maybe checking out Bard as a first class instead of Rogue. You'll lose some skill points, but gain some fun spells and bardic music to "coax" the people into being liberal with the gratitude. (i.e fascinate) Bard utilizes Charisma better than Rogues as well. Sorry, but your feats make me cringe. Unless your campaign will be totally lacking combat, you're going to be better off with feats like Dodge, TWF, or Weapon Finesse. Especially if you go paladin, take weapon finesse and a rapier or short sword for better results. The only stats I might change are Con & Wis. Swap those and get paladin spells or monk bonus to AC. Hope that helps a bit.
Raziel_Brokodar 12-06-04, 06:56 PM	GTLGB Got To Love Gnome Backgrounds!!!! Good stuff!!!!!! The names are brilliant!!! AH HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! :D As MetalGemini said, your feats are your only bad thing. They aren't useful in the long term. Sure they boost you in the beginning, but pick more useful feats, ones that can be built upon and used in the later levels. Other than that, it's great.
MonkeyPaladin 12-07-04, 04:22 PM	Nice background. Wouldn't it be Gnorm, pronounced Norm, since the G is silent in gnome, not the other way around? Switching Int and Str might be good. Adding a point to Int isn't really that good unless you're a wizard, since you don't retroactively pick up skill points. Adding to strength would be more beneficial, especially if you're going for a paladin later on. Dex and Charisma I would leave alone, you can bump Chr later to make it even, and dexterity is more beneficial right now. Leave Con where it is. Metal Gemini has a point. First off, if you multiclass the way you are now, you'll get penalized, whereas with bard you have your racial favored class and that's not an issue. You don't have any rogue exclusive skills like Open Locks or Disable Device anyway, so the only thing you'd really give up is sneak attacks, which would just have maxed out at 2d6 anyway, so no major loss. As a bard you'd get spells, some charisma abilities to go with your con man concept, and a better will save (which would otherwise be an issue for several levels as neither rogues nor paladins have good will saves.) You replace intimidate with perform and drop Craft: alchemy (you can buy that stuff anyway) and maybe drop escape artist for now. I also agree about the feats. I'd recommend point blank shot, dodge, or improved initiative. Negotiator is not really worth it considering you already have good ranks in those skills, and you need some kind of combat ability. I don't think you can take weapon finesse without a point of base attack though, Gemini.