Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Noriass Gato 11-11-04, 08:39 AM	Ok, lets first describe a situation. Group is high level - 1im 17th, will level to 18th soon. Others are already 18th. We fought (and won) against a dangerous demon lord and his two pet balors (several PC died, but were resurrected without level loss). Said demonlord had stolen kids of my PC and another PC and was blackmailing us to do bad things, so we decided instead to deal with blackmailer once and for all... One of PC had a means to send him a call, and last time he did so, said lord threatened next time depart with said PC's head - minus body. so a call, a dimensional anchor, several walls of force, and a pitched balle later, we prevailed. After all this, my PC received highest awards of local lords orden, he and other PC are part of, making him highest ranking in the party. After returning home, we found out, that the king was killed on a duel. Seems, he had wronged one of lords, said lord had challened him, and king had accepted. After others found them, king was dead, and lord claiming being one who did the deed. Local law claims, that the killer, and his family up to seven generations must be killed. All the family, children, grandchildren, up to the todlers... Other PC is saddled with the order to carry execution out. Now there comes the problem. I dont like "kill all and let Gods sort out" approach in life, and my PC ( NG bard) doesn't either. The more with all the quest, we just did - saving our own children from Hell. Then again, a law is a law. Going right against it will mean of my PC being outlaved as well, along with my family. I (as a PC) did some attempts to dig up the loopholes in lav, that would allow noncombatants to be spared, but have failed so far. It doesnt really matter, who did killing, as the victim had confessed himself guilty. One loophoile was adoption, but.. my PC could adopt one, max two or three... But not all children... Any ideas, since otherwise, i feel that my PC will end his carrier as either a partykiller and an outlaw, waiting in his castle for the executioners to come, or just lays his life down defending said children for others of party. Please?
Persephone Imytholin 11-11-04, 08:55 AM	Just reading that as it's written, I'd imagine that regicide conviction wouldn't hold if you could prove that the king had accepted such a challenge. This could be tricky - you'd need to be able to find a witness to prove that there was, indeed, an honorable challenge made and accepted. Failing that, you'd have to find whoever's ruling the place and have them pardon the killer. Your last resort, if you didn't want to pen them all in the dead-book, would be to have them leg it.
Noriass Gato 11-11-04, 09:36 AM	Challenge was made and accepted in front of several vitnesses. Tried to reason that and failed. Law is a law, and killer is a killer. Basically, said victim was put in a no-win situation - he had to make a challenge or loose a face. And then king made it worse by accepting. Only way out and saving family now would have been for the victim to die from king's hand, which he somehow failed... The pardoning thing is out of question since there isnt anybody ruling country yet. The gathering of lords will decide on the new ruler, king being like in France before absolutism - just the first from equals. No succession law. Since it could be several months before the gathering comes together... it will be too late, since if not us, then some other appointed will do the deed. The last option - i will try it, but so far GM is pointing lord as a fatalist - locked in his castle, awaiting executors. He will resist, of course - not resisting will be bad thing for remaining honor he has. And as law claims, if one fails, there will be next lord, and after that next one, until there will be no more lords left, or the killer is executed together with all of his kin... Scouting surroundings of castle revealed that all non-family members vere already send away - traders, masters, servants etc. Only family remains holed in...
Fnep Wigglesworth 11-11-04, 08:10 PM	I know this might be a stupid suggestion that you tried already or something but since you're lvl 17 bard, couldn't a few diplomacy rolls or a suggestion songs or spell with an audience smooth over a few rough edges, or at least delay the whole thing until there is an appointed ruler?
warpdragon 11-11-04, 09:34 PM	Why dont you use a Teleportation Circle? Sneak in at night, draw one, get them all out, knock out all resistors, and wait 10 minutes for it to close, leave.
Ahnehnois 11-12-04, 08:53 AM	If you just got yourselves resurrected, why can't the king be resurrected? If he's not dead, that's a good loophole.
Captain Casualty 11-12-04, 10:02 AM	The adoption idea seems a good route - but why do it all yourself? As a level 17 bard you must be able to sell snow to eskimo's so get them all adopted by someone else! If no one else will do it Have them "adopted" into a religous order. It might be semantics but if these folks really are uber lawful RAW types the ensuing arguments should last long enough to find an actual ruler and brainwas.... er convince him to give a pardon. if only to stop the constsant arguing of these ultra **** lawyer types.
Noriass Gato 11-13-04, 04:20 AM	Thank You all for a good suggestions. Especially about using bard abilities to charm some hardliners... sometimes i forgot about them. Plus, my PC is not using the charms as often as he could... Keeping into good graces. Im only afraid, that i may be forced to charm entire country... but slow and a lord at a time... Why not? I will try some of your suggestions this week, will tell about results then. Thanks again.
Darth Teddybear 11-24-04, 03:33 PM	Allo, allo. :) Keep in mind also that if a law is evil (as a law requiring the death of innocents generally is), it is a good act to oppose such a law. Also, your character is NG, right? Why does he care what the law says if it is doing an evil thing? As warpdragon suggested, you should just get those people out of there. If the lord wants to stick around for the execution, that's his problem; I highly doubt he'd complain if you rescued his family. Just my 2 cp.
eudas 11-24-04, 04:20 PM	you don't have to charm the whole country, just charm the few key political figures who can enact a change in the law and let the rest of the country grumble about it. after all, they're not in charge, the lords are. charm the lords and the rest will follow. but the situation is absurd, anyway, and your DM needs to know that. no society that has laws providing for a death penalty for murder is going to fail to include exceptions for dueling if duels to the death are allowed. so, either you've been unclear in your post (and duels to the death are not allowed, thus making the duel and the killing illegal and therefore punishable by law), or the DM has misrepresented it to you and the lord should be excepted from the punishment due to the fact that it was a legal, accepted duel (provided witnesses can corroborate the claims that it was a duel). eudas
Noriass Gato 11-29-04, 09:32 AM	Ok, further development of situation... Missed start of the next session, and when arrived foirst call was: "Alarik, it's your turn and Amidar is dying again!" :D Turns out, the group had teleported into lords holl, and talks had gone for some time, but since main diplomat was absent, they eventually broke down, someone said this, someone said that, and in the end lord said "Ok, you creatures have anything else you want to say? No? Then..." And the battle started out. In the result, we are now with dead lord and his bodyguard on hands, inside his castle, in his arcane-locked throne room, our teleporting/restoration casting spellcaster has been drained down to able cast magic missiles only, and the session over on cliffhanger...
Noriass Gato 12-17-04, 01:25 PM	Ok, for those interested how it went, the situation had been resolved. "Vidam Alarik fon Knabenhauzen, an 11th level bard/2nd level virtuoso/5th level spellsinger, vinner of Ferona bardic festival, a guest of evil faery court who escaped and led out all his party members, winner of battle with demon lord Grakh and his two pet Balors, has put down his three silver stars - highest mark of the dergraks kingdom aristocracy, and is currenly going into emigration along with his family. After a year and a day, any vidam who meets him, has right to kill him on the spot. This is the deal with someone who goes against the laws of dergraks." It was fun to play, and lot of role play and talk, but in the end my hero lost. I only saved five newborns... Lost my influence, my status in society, and has to go far far away to escape death penalty, but at least kept alignment and conscience free. Rest of party carried out execution of the family. Thanks everybody who gave me suggestions. Anyone knows of a good character form to go with following group - psi-warrior, ranger, druid and sorcerer/bard? :D
Faustus von Kai 12-23-04, 05:20 PM	Give yourself a challenge. Try Paladin.