Character Growth. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Character Growth. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
albinomonkeyking
09-24-07, 11:21 PM I see a lot of threads on here with backgrounds that are... extensive. I understand developing backstories, I'm always most in favor of it in my group, however, I usually lean towards motivations for future development.

For me most of who my character is doesn't really happen until I'm tested in the DM's world with the other players, then I end up with a feel for him.

Anyone else believe this? Or any of you with huge backstories ever have your expectations change once you play?
CrimsonDeath
09-25-07, 04:36 AM I usually don't get a feel for how my character thinks, feels, or talks until I'm at the table. One character, I actually changed his alignment because how I was playing him didn't really jive with the alignment I'd listed for him.

Occasionally, though, I'll have a personality in mind for a character and manage to remain true to it. Usually, those are the ones that I'll be somewhere else-- stuck in traffic, in a boring class-- and come up with hypothetical situations for the character to react to.
Karsil_Draken
09-25-07, 04:39 AM My current Star Wars character had 4-6 lines of text when I started playing him. something like "A Jayne and Mal inspired gunslinger that don't take good and evil for face value. He doesn't like when people decides over him, and he hates owing anyone anything.

Now, as we started to play I thought more about it... and now I got 4 pages, plus ½ about his homeworld. And its not because he is chanced... now I just know more precisely how he is and why...

...Karsil
KIDS
09-25-07, 08:27 AM Yes, I prefer shorter backgrounds like you said; a long one sometimes has its place but I often see huge backgrounds just because someone feels compelled to write them (there is a mistaken belief that writing a lot is automatically good, it can be, but not automatically). So I'd mostly agree with your thoughts and it's quite natural to see characters changing or discarding their prewritten plans.
CrimsonDeath
09-25-07, 03:03 PM A long background story can also lead to the "wall of text" and "tl;dr" problems. In my experience, people come to D&D to play a role or beat up monsters, not read a story.
Uberwoot
09-25-07, 11:28 PM Actually, I would say that there is a significant player base that plays the game to participate in a story. Call it role playing if you will, but I personally think there's a slight difference, even if I can't really explain it.

That being said, I think writing a character background is extremely helpful for two reasons. First, it gives the DM a basis to develop hooks that specifically target your character and adventures that dredge up your character's past. Very little is more satisfying than a conflict from the past being resolved with the help of newfound friends and better-developed skills. Second, it helps the player have a better idea of how to roleplay the character. Realism is in the details, and a well-developed background story can help a player answer questions such as "what kind of meal would this character be most likely to ask for?" or "does this character prefer seedy or reputable places, public (like a market) or semi-private (like a bar), for gather information checks?" Of course, the DM should have a somewhat shorter version of a background than the player has.

Character evolution as the game progresses? Sure. That's what adventures are for, right?

/woot
CrimsonDeath
09-26-07, 04:10 AM Actually, I would say that there is a significant player base that plays the game to participate in a story. Call it role playing if you will, but I personally think there's a slight difference, even if I can't really explain it.
There's a big difference between being part of a story and listening to one. Being part of the story is basically what I meant when I said "play a role".
Winged_Edge
09-26-07, 10:02 PM I'll try to limit a characters background to about 2 well-developed paragraphs, give or take.

That gives me enough time to explain basic personality, outward appearance, philosophy on (insert important thing to character here), and why said character is out to adventure (goals, motives, etc). Maybe one traumatic event in the past (because seriously, what character ~isn't~ emo? :) )

Now, that's not to say I haven't written those oh-so-grand backstories that put the length of some novels to shame; but I tend to avoid it. I don't like to write huge pasts as a rule of thumb as I've found that it gives people (not necessarily the character, but they usually follow suit) a very egocentric attitude to the plot.

Quite a bit of effort is put into the story, and most players want to see something come out of it. As a DM, here's what I've found what happens with big stories.
A) The player writes something that has a fairly solid conclusion with perhaps a few strings left missing. If the loose strings are never given attention, the character still functions just fine.
B) The player writes something that seems like a work in progress. They toss themselves into your campaign as just a 'segway' between 'their' big plot.* They expect it to be resolved somehow and if it isn't addressed the character has a very difficult time functioning in the campaign.

A is good; B is not.

So, when it comes down to it. - Don't make your DM forced** to deal with your plot, give him/her a few loose strings to incorporate but don't ride your entire character's functionality on the fact that the DM will pick it up.

*Usually this is accomplished through the following line [or similar]: "And so (character) left all those behind him/her to train so (s)he might one day defeat (their bbeg)."

** I know it's impossible to "force" a DM to do anything. I'll explain quickly. Some DM's work their hardest to make sure everyone is having fun. If the next arch could be for the one character, they'll sometimes work on that despite their own creative urges. Also, aany players find it unsatisfactory to hear the phrase - "(their bbeg) was killed by (uber-powerful DM character) ... you won't have to avenge yourself anymore."
Kindof a lose-lose.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
albinomonkeyking 09-24-07, 11:21 PM	I see a lot of threads on here with backgrounds that are... extensive. I understand developing backstories, I'm always most in favor of it in my group, however, I usually lean towards motivations for future development. For me most of who my character is doesn't really happen until I'm tested in the DM's world with the other players, then I end up with a feel for him. Anyone else believe this? Or any of you with huge backstories ever have your expectations change once you play?
CrimsonDeath 09-25-07, 04:36 AM	I usually don't get a feel for how my character thinks, feels, or talks until I'm at the table. One character, I actually changed his alignment because how I was playing him didn't really jive with the alignment I'd listed for him. Occasionally, though, I'll have a personality in mind for a character and manage to remain true to it. Usually, those are the ones that I'll be somewhere else-- stuck in traffic, in a boring class-- and come up with hypothetical situations for the character to react to.
Karsil_Draken 09-25-07, 04:39 AM	My current Star Wars character had 4-6 lines of text when I started playing him. something like "A Jayne and Mal inspired gunslinger that don't take good and evil for face value. He doesn't like when people decides over him, and he hates owing anyone anything. Now, as we started to play I thought more about it... and now I got 4 pages, plus ½ about his homeworld. And its not because he is chanced... now I just know more precisely how he is and why... ...Karsil
KIDS 09-25-07, 08:27 AM	Yes, I prefer shorter backgrounds like you said; a long one sometimes has its place but I often see huge backgrounds just because someone feels compelled to write them (there is a mistaken belief that writing a lot is automatically good, it can be, but not automatically). So I'd mostly agree with your thoughts and it's quite natural to see characters changing or discarding their prewritten plans.
CrimsonDeath 09-25-07, 03:03 PM	A long background story can also lead to the "wall of text" and "tl;dr" problems. In my experience, people come to D&D to play a role or beat up monsters, not read a story.
Uberwoot 09-25-07, 11:28 PM	Actually, I would say that there is a significant player base that plays the game to participate in a story. Call it role playing if you will, but I personally think there's a slight difference, even if I can't really explain it. That being said, I think writing a character background is extremely helpful for two reasons. First, it gives the DM a basis to develop hooks that specifically target your character and adventures that dredge up your character's past. Very little is more satisfying than a conflict from the past being resolved with the help of newfound friends and better-developed skills. Second, it helps the player have a better idea of how to roleplay the character. Realism is in the details, and a well-developed background story can help a player answer questions such as "what kind of meal would this character be most likely to ask for?" or "does this character prefer seedy or reputable places, public (like a market) or semi-private (like a bar), for gather information checks?" Of course, the DM should have a somewhat shorter version of a background than the player has. Character evolution as the game progresses? Sure. That's what adventures are for, right? /woot
CrimsonDeath 09-26-07, 04:10 AM	Actually, I would say that there is a significant player base that plays the game to participate in a story. Call it role playing if you will, but I personally think there's a slight difference, even if I can't really explain it. There's a big difference between being part of a story and listening to one. Being part of the story is basically what I meant when I said "play a role".
Winged_Edge 09-26-07, 10:02 PM	I'll try to limit a characters background to about 2 well-developed paragraphs, give or take. That gives me enough time to explain basic personality, outward appearance, philosophy on (insert important thing to character here), and why said character is out to adventure (goals, motives, etc). Maybe one traumatic event in the past (because seriously, what character ~isn't~ emo? :) ) Now, that's not to say I haven't written those oh-so-grand backstories that put the length of some novels to shame; but I tend to avoid it. I don't like to write huge pasts as a rule of thumb as I've found that it gives people (not necessarily the character, but they usually follow suit) a very egocentric attitude to the plot. Quite a bit of effort is put into the story, and most players want to see something come out of it. As a DM, here's what I've found what happens with big stories. A) The player writes something that has a fairly solid conclusion with perhaps a few strings left missing. If the loose strings are never given attention, the character still functions just fine. B) The player writes something that seems like a work in progress. They toss themselves into your campaign as just a 'segway' between 'their' big plot.* They expect it to be resolved somehow and if it isn't addressed the character has a very difficult time functioning in the campaign. A is good; B is not. So, when it comes down to it. - Don't make your DM forced** to deal with your plot, give him/her a few loose strings to incorporate but don't ride your entire character's functionality on the fact that the DM will pick it up. Usually this is accomplished through the following line [or similar]: "And so (character) left all those behind him/her to train so (s)he might one day defeat (their bbeg)." * I know it's impossible to "force" a DM to do anything. I'll explain quickly. Some DM's work their hardest to make sure everyone is having fun. If the next arch could be for the one character, they'll sometimes work on that despite their own creative urges. Also, aany players find it unsatisfactory to hear the phrase - "(their bbeg) was killed by (uber-powerful DM character) ... you won't have to avenge yourself anymore." Kindof a lose-lose.