Cleric of Erythnul [Archive] - Wizards Community

Cleric of Erythnul [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Deadlion
12-23-05, 05:11 PM I had an idea recently to play as a cleric of Erythnul, seeing as Chaotic Neutral is a valid alignment for his clerics.

However, I find it hard to imagine in what ways a non-evil cleric would uphold the principles of such a violent and depraved god as Erythnul.

Does anyone have any ideas to help me?
Otogi
12-24-05, 11:01 AM To do that is quite easy. You just have to want to battle recklessly and without stop, just trying to enjoy the fun of hitting things, but not feel like you have to diembody or something the person. Just want to battle, not butcher.
JohntheDM
12-24-05, 11:14 PM The problem with that is that Erythnul is THE god of combatants who want to butcher their foes. He is the self-described god of slaughter, and while it's an interesting concept playing a cleric of Erythnul without the idea of slaughtering your foes mercilessly (and reveling in it) is a bit like playing a cleric of grummush but saying that you don't want to be racist against elves.
foxylady
12-24-05, 11:27 PM a bit like playing a cleric of grummush but saying that you don't want to be racist against elves.
I'd say it's more like playing a cleric of Gruumsh but saying you don't want to kill elves. You still want nothing to do with them, of course.
Deadlion
12-25-05, 09:07 AM First, thanks for helping me out...

However, I knew a kind of battle-lust and bloodthirstiness would be involved, and I didn't think this would be too difficult (after all, how many Chaotic Neutral Barbarians revel in bloodshed without being dubbed "evil"?)... I was more interested in a sort of non-combat stance... as in the Cleric's philosophy on the world. The dogma of Erythnul is pretty brutal - mutilate the beautiful, steal what you want, kill those you dislike, etc. etc.

So any help on how my Cleric might follow such principles without being truly evil?

[Edit] Answering my own question here, somewhat - I suppose the Cleric could have found the worship of Erythnul through a love of battle, and simply be following his other teachings by rote... i.e. he steals, tortures and kills because it is what Erythnul says he should do, not because it is actually in his nature.
General_Ridley
12-25-05, 04:08 PM I'd take, on the philosophical side, a closer look at Death. Erythnul hates the living, so you could take a more tactile approach to your life focusing on life after death and unlife in particular.

Reading Libris Mortis, it states that openly proclaiming your allegiance to Erythnul just gets his attention and makes you worthy of being destroyed by him. So secretiveness would be key to ensuring you a long life.

hope that helps a little.
Pandaemoni
12-25-05, 04:58 PM First, thanks for helping me out...

However, I knew a kind of battle-lust and bloodthirstiness would be involved, and I didn't think this would be too difficult (after all, how many Chaotic Neutral Barbarians revel in bloodshed without being dubbed "evil"?)... I was more interested in a sort of non-combat stance... as in the Cleric's philosophy on the world. The dogma of Erythnul is pretty brutal - mutilate the beautiful, steal what you want, kill those you dislike, etc. etc.

So any help on how my Cleric might follow such principles without being truly evil?

[Edit] Answering my own question here, somewhat - I suppose the Cleric could have found the worship of Erythnul through a love of battle, and simply be following his other teachings by rote... i.e. he steals, tortures and kills because it is what Erythnul says he should do, not because it is actually in his nature.

It is possible to view evil as having the same sort of crusading zeal that is sometimes associated with good. Clerics of Erythnul typically do more than just approve of slaughter, they proactively create it, not merely to attain their goals, but just because. A Chaotic Neutral cleric of Erythnul, imo, would have a similar love of battle, but would be far less likely to go out of his way to slaughter people (innocent or deserving alike). Pain and conflict may be a fact of the world that he recognizes and reveres for their pervasiveness, perhaps even seeing some greater purpose that slaughter and random violence serve in strengthening species as a whole, without necessarily reveling in that pain.

Such a person would likely see struggle and bloody competition as a necessary and salutary thing, so long as that competition is free and unfettered by rules. That can be generalized out beyond simple combat as well, because competition is itself pervasive in society on many levels (and society has many rules that your character would likely abhor designed to limit such competition--such as legal bans on dueling, assault, murder, adventuring without a license, etc., laws or edicts establishing monopolies in the name of the king, or even just social rules that have much the same effect--such as having "formal" duels, or the belief that that it's not okay to hit girls.) The role of competition would be to produce a clear and decisive victor and, by analogy to the concept of slaughter, to eliminate defeated opponents. "Elimination" in some contexts (say the economic or business context) does not necessarily mean literally killing them.

I think it is always hard to play a cleric of a deity when your alignment differs from theirs, and especially hard when the difference is on the good/evil axis. In many respects, I always see those clerics as the ones likely to ruffle feathers of those within their organization. In the real world, every religion has its dissident priests that chafe against some of the teachings and annoy those in the higher ranks, think Martin Luther. I think it makes sense to think of at least some of those more cantankerous clerics as the one's whose alignments differed from the standard one for that religion. The issue, though is that sometimes those priests get chastised for their differences (or even excommunicated, again think Martin Luther). The Church of Erythnul likely would simply have you killed (indeed I'd think that religion likely sees a lot of internal murder amongst the ranks over far less), which makes being a dissident cleric of Erythnul a possible challenge.

Anyway, those are my views off the top of my head.
Deadlion
12-26-05, 12:30 PM Thanks again, everyone, you've given me some great stuff to go on, especially Pandaemoni's idea of the dissident Cleric.
Grizzled Gryphon
12-27-05, 08:57 AM Play your cleric as a realist. All this goody two shoes baloney isn't going to win the fight against the enemies of man. If humanity is to win, we have to do EVERYTHING it takes. Lie, cheat, steal, maim, whatever it takes. No holds barred. If the way of Paladins and others like them actually worked, we wouldn't have the problems we do today. With devotion to Erythnul, you can acheive victory!! It is the only way!!

Thats how I would play him.
Sosthenes
12-27-05, 10:44 AM Victory? Pshaw, that's for Hextor. Erythnul doesn't care about the end, he cares about the means: bloody, gory means. Let's repeat the canon of Conan: Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the women. You revel in destruction.

Playing a non-evil cleric of Big E isn't very easy. One way to approach it is pure optimism. Hey, look at the world. Chaos is winning, everything is created just to be destroyed. In the end, Erythnul wins. Praise the god for it, help speed it along. No need to go into upper management, commanding hordes and that stuff. Wreak your own little havoc and set a good example for the little ones out there.

That's exaggerating a little, but in the end you're not much worse than the average adventurer. A raging barbarian? Come one, in what regard is he better than you? Hair styling? A cleric of the oh-so-good Kord "The Brawler"? He wants to win, you just want someone else to loose. In the end...
Grizzled Gryphon
12-27-05, 11:01 AM Well, my version is fully aware that victory is not really an option. But, if people THINK it is, that will get them fighting more, won't it? Ahh, the carnage...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Deadlion 12-23-05, 05:11 PM	I had an idea recently to play as a cleric of Erythnul, seeing as Chaotic Neutral is a valid alignment for his clerics. However, I find it hard to imagine in what ways a non-evil cleric would uphold the principles of such a violent and depraved god as Erythnul. Does anyone have any ideas to help me?
Otogi 12-24-05, 11:01 AM	To do that is quite easy. You just have to want to battle recklessly and without stop, just trying to enjoy the fun of hitting things, but not feel like you have to diembody or something the person. Just want to battle, not butcher.
JohntheDM 12-24-05, 11:14 PM	The problem with that is that Erythnul is THE god of combatants who want to butcher their foes. He is the self-described god of slaughter, and while it's an interesting concept playing a cleric of Erythnul without the idea of slaughtering your foes mercilessly (and reveling in it) is a bit like playing a cleric of grummush but saying that you don't want to be racist against elves.
foxylady 12-24-05, 11:27 PM	a bit like playing a cleric of grummush but saying that you don't want to be racist against elves. I'd say it's more like playing a cleric of Gruumsh but saying you don't want to kill elves. You still want nothing to do with them, of course.
Deadlion 12-25-05, 09:07 AM	First, thanks for helping me out... However, I knew a kind of battle-lust and bloodthirstiness would be involved, and I didn't think this would be too difficult (after all, how many Chaotic Neutral Barbarians revel in bloodshed without being dubbed "evil"?)... I was more interested in a sort of non-combat stance... as in the Cleric's philosophy on the world. The dogma of Erythnul is pretty brutal - mutilate the beautiful, steal what you want, kill those you dislike, etc. etc. So any help on how my Cleric might follow such principles without being truly evil? [Edit] Answering my own question here, somewhat - I suppose the Cleric could have found the worship of Erythnul through a love of battle, and simply be following his other teachings by rote... i.e. he steals, tortures and kills because it is what Erythnul says he should do, not because it is actually in his nature.
General_Ridley 12-25-05, 04:08 PM	I'd take, on the philosophical side, a closer look at Death. Erythnul hates the living, so you could take a more tactile approach to your life focusing on life after death and unlife in particular. Reading Libris Mortis, it states that openly proclaiming your allegiance to Erythnul just gets his attention and makes you worthy of being destroyed by him. So secretiveness would be key to ensuring you a long life. hope that helps a little.
Pandaemoni 12-25-05, 04:58 PM	First, thanks for helping me out... However, I knew a kind of battle-lust and bloodthirstiness would be involved, and I didn't think this would be too difficult (after all, how many Chaotic Neutral Barbarians revel in bloodshed without being dubbed "evil"?)... I was more interested in a sort of non-combat stance... as in the Cleric's philosophy on the world. The dogma of Erythnul is pretty brutal - mutilate the beautiful, steal what you want, kill those you dislike, etc. etc. So any help on how my Cleric might follow such principles without being truly evil? [Edit] Answering my own question here, somewhat - I suppose the Cleric could have found the worship of Erythnul through a love of battle, and simply be following his other teachings by rote... i.e. he steals, tortures and kills because it is what Erythnul says he should do, not because it is actually in his nature. It is possible to view evil as having the same sort of crusading zeal that is sometimes associated with good. Clerics of Erythnul typically do more than just approve of slaughter, they proactively create it, not merely to attain their goals, but just because. A Chaotic Neutral cleric of Erythnul, imo, would have a similar love of battle, but would be far less likely to go out of his way to slaughter people (innocent or deserving alike). Pain and conflict may be a fact of the world that he recognizes and reveres for their pervasiveness, perhaps even seeing some greater purpose that slaughter and random violence serve in strengthening species as a whole, without necessarily reveling in that pain. Such a person would likely see struggle and bloody competition as a necessary and salutary thing, so long as that competition is free and unfettered by rules. That can be generalized out beyond simple combat as well, because competition is itself pervasive in society on many levels (and society has many rules that your character would likely abhor designed to limit such competition--such as legal bans on dueling, assault, murder, adventuring without a license, etc., laws or edicts establishing monopolies in the name of the king, or even just social rules that have much the same effect--such as having "formal" duels, or the belief that that it's not okay to hit girls.) The role of competition would be to produce a clear and decisive victor and, by analogy to the concept of slaughter, to eliminate defeated opponents. "Elimination" in some contexts (say the economic or business context) does not necessarily mean literally killing them. I think it is always hard to play a cleric of a deity when your alignment differs from theirs, and especially hard when the difference is on the good/evil axis. In many respects, I always see those clerics as the ones likely to ruffle feathers of those within their organization. In the real world, every religion has its dissident priests that chafe against some of the teachings and annoy those in the higher ranks, think Martin Luther. I think it makes sense to think of at least some of those more cantankerous clerics as the one's whose alignments differed from the standard one for that religion. The issue, though is that sometimes those priests get chastised for their differences (or even excommunicated, again think Martin Luther). The Church of Erythnul likely would simply have you killed (indeed I'd think that religion likely sees a lot of internal murder amongst the ranks over far less), which makes being a dissident cleric of Erythnul a possible challenge. Anyway, those are my views off the top of my head.
Deadlion 12-26-05, 12:30 PM	Thanks again, everyone, you've given me some great stuff to go on, especially Pandaemoni's idea of the dissident Cleric.
Grizzled Gryphon 12-27-05, 08:57 AM	Play your cleric as a realist. All this goody two shoes baloney isn't going to win the fight against the enemies of man. If humanity is to win, we have to do EVERYTHING it takes. Lie, cheat, steal, maim, whatever it takes. No holds barred. If the way of Paladins and others like them actually worked, we wouldn't have the problems we do today. With devotion to Erythnul, you can acheive victory!! It is the only way!! Thats how I would play him.
Sosthenes 12-27-05, 10:44 AM	Victory? Pshaw, that's for Hextor. Erythnul doesn't care about the end, he cares about the means: bloody, gory means. Let's repeat the canon of Conan: Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the women. You revel in destruction. Playing a non-evil cleric of Big E isn't very easy. One way to approach it is pure optimism. Hey, look at the world. Chaos is winning, everything is created just to be destroyed. In the end, Erythnul wins. Praise the god for it, help speed it along. No need to go into upper management, commanding hordes and that stuff. Wreak your own little havoc and set a good example for the little ones out there. That's exaggerating a little, but in the end you're not much worse than the average adventurer. A raging barbarian? Come one, in what regard is he better than you? Hair styling? A cleric of the oh-so-good Kord "The Brawler"? He wants to win, you just want someone else to loose. In the end...
Grizzled Gryphon 12-27-05, 11:01 AM	Well, my version is fully aware that victory is not really an option. But, if people THINK it is, that will get them fighting more, won't it? Ahh, the carnage...