Post/Author/DateTime	Post
technodemon 08-01-03, 10:54 AM	Hi all, I need some help with alternate character. I am wanting to a dark/ant-hero with some oddness or stangeness to him. I am thinking doing a spellcaster that he deals in to the darker aspect of the magical. This not going to a necromancer just in case you are thinking it but more infernal. Think a fantasy/medieval style Batman, Spawn or something similar to these icon characters. Any ideas or suggestions for classes and prestige classes?
Eyes in the Darkness 08-01-03, 03:31 PM	Well, I've been toying with this idea in my head for a while, and it sounds like you could at least use an idea. The concept goes like this: the character suffers from some sort of birth defect so that part of his dietary requirement is a significant amount of human, and only human, flesh and blood. This isn't vampirism or anything, just some strange disease that requires the character to kill and consume human beings for survival. Now, this character could be somewhat arrogant because humans are just prey to him or her. However, this character still has a moral compass and perhaps something bad in this person's life has made them only hunt out those that they deem to be detriments to society. As far as the darker aspects of magic, well the enchantment school in the wrong hands is a dangerous thing. Basically, you could have either a specialist wizard who is arrogant and haughty, always planning and scheming to destroy the thieves guild and eat the membership, or a lone sorcerer who prowls the streets. This concept works best in a large urban area where the violent deaths of some street trash would go unnoticed.
The One and Only... 08-01-03, 04:11 PM	This is a character I've been thinking about playing for a while. I'll assume FR, and insert your characters name wherever you see *. Long ago, on another world, there was a great kingdom under the purveyance of the deity * (LG - Paladin). He was a fair and just god, who had started as a mortal member of a race quite similar to humans. Under his guidance, the kingdom thrived as a trade hub of the surrounding lands. This was largely because the security force was dedicated and had a knack for their job; that is, to uphold the laws. Merchants felt secure within the kingdoms borders. However, it was not to last. A great war started, one that involved all of the people of the continent. The kingdoms economy plummeted into dismal proportions, as few traded in times of war. The military was in peril, and soon the kingdom collapsed after a successful campaign by the orcs. * saw this, and what was happening to the world in general. He saw people cut into bloody pieces. He saw women raped and sold as slaves. He saw soldiers eat the dead to conserve rations. He saw suffering, and learned the ultimate law of the universe: to live is to offer a chance to suffer, and this is a possibility he simply cannot allow happen to the good hearted. Mercifully eliminating those with a kind heart and torturing those with evil, * started his killing spree. His followers were his agents, and he waged war personally on all the gods of his world. Eventually, they closed in on him. Knowing he was going to be destroyed, he stored some of his divine essense in an artifact on a demiplane. A seperate relic would trigger his rebirth millenia later. This rebirth is your character. He suddenly appeared on Faerun in a human shell, born to mundane parents. Upholding the true law, * is on a crusade to spare everyone the pain of life and punish those who might cause it. His divine powers are granted by the first relic that holds some of his essense (spells, etc.) He has general knowledge of his past, but was weakened heavily in his rebirth. Thus, he is a X level human paladin, and little more.
Barrid 08-01-03, 04:45 PM	I'd personally do a Human Ranger/Rogue who dual-wields daggers. He'd have some all over his body, two in belt sheaths, neck sheath, armpit sheath, two ankle sheaths...etc. I'd make him LE and have favored enemy Human. He'd be a bounty hunter by "trade." I'd also get those Gnomish wrist sheaths for magic rods and wand tokeep handy magic at his fingertips (without having to put down his daggers). I'd play him like a cross between Will Scarlet, Mad Max and Boba Fett (to use popular examples anyways). You could also add a lil Man With No Name to his character to mystery him up and still have the aura of hero/anti-hero about him.
technodemon 08-01-03, 07:31 PM	Originally posted by Eyes in the Darkness Well, I've been toying with this idea in my head for a while, and it sounds like you could at least use an idea. The concept goes like this: the character suffers from some sort of birth defect so that part of his dietary requirement is a significant amount of human, and only human, flesh and blood. This isn't vampirism or anything, just some strange disease that requires the character to kill and consume human beings for survival. Now, this character could be somewhat arrogant because humans are just prey to him or her. However, this character still has a moral compass and perhaps something bad in this person's life has made them only hunt out those that they deem to be detriments to society. As far as the darker aspects of magic, well the enchantment school in the wrong hands is a dangerous thing. Basically, you could have either a specialist wizard who is arrogant and haughty, always planning and scheming to destroy the thieves guild and eat the membership, or a lone sorcerer who prowls the streets. This concept works best in a large urban area where the violent deaths of some street trash would go unnoticed. I like the idea but no urban setting in our campagin, yet since we not found any yet. Right now we are on an island so not much and we found jungle, forests, some caves and beach. That is about it for now. So are much in and outdoor setting. Of course there is a town but not what were aiming for.
Eyes in the Darkness 08-01-03, 11:26 PM	While it theoretically works best in an urban setting, a jungle version could work equally well for you. In fact, perhaps the jungle is where the disease originally came from. Perhaps normally a sort of "Jungle Blood Fever" causes severe fever and decay of the blood, so by the end of the disease's course the victims are raving mad and their blood is like jelly. Perhaps someone happened to have a partial immunity that prevents the thickening of the blood but not the madness unless they can suppliment their diet with human blood. Through isolation they are pretty much insane right now but still retain enough shred of humanity to only hunt those that they deem to be unworthy of life. I don't know the specifics of your campaign of course, but are there any local non-evil humanoids on this island? If there are perhaps they fear this character as some sort of mad jungle spirit, sort of like a hot climate wendigo. The other characters might occasionally see a glimpse of something prowling too deep in the foliage to track and hear of the stories. Perhaps an introduction could be with some sort of minor evil character who is threatening the characters only to be dragged off by some shadowy figure. As they follow the screams they eventually come to the bag guy strung up in a tree, a scraggly humanoid feasting on his flesh and then dropping to the ground twitching in agony, frothing at the mouth. Best part is if he or she has an Int score above 14 because once the madness is temporarily flushed from his or her system from the infusion of human blood, because then the character can start eloquently explaining just what is going on. Just image the looks on the other player's faces if they find out evil jungle spirit that everyone fears turns out to be a wizard with more brains than all of them put together. Motivation for joining could be both altruistic and practical: no one kills more evil humans than adventurers. However, this concept cannot be a straight primary caster, a few levels of ranger would be necessary for flavour.
Daniel _the_Zodiac 08-03-03, 01:17 AM	I'm playing sort of a dark anti-hero atm. Here's the lowdown: He's a dhampir (half-vampire template from Ravenloft's Denizens of Darkness d20) On the outside he appears as a human unaccepting of other races or peoples faults. The reason is he secretly hates himself because of his need for blood and because he wishes to be fully human. Since he is not fully human he takes it out on people who aren't either. Also since his mother was raped and died in childbirth he dedicates himself to hunting vampires and undead creatures with extreme vengence. He's blurring the line between good and evil since he's starting not to care if innoncents get in the way of the slaughter of the undead. So I hope that my inspire you. I think a good thing for an anti-hero is a tragic event like in the Crow, Batman, etc. that causes the character to reach a new low and he/she can either rise from it and try to better themselves or run away from it. Sometimes you can't tell which is which.
technodemon 08-03-03, 01:10 PM	Well I having think adding some type dak priestly type class: Cleric, Paladin or a Monk to add some flavor to the character concept. Think Pinhead from Hellraiser for a sample. Any ideas?
The One and Only... 08-03-03, 05:18 PM	My post had a paladin idea. You might need to refine some aspects to fit your game world, however.
Warskull 08-03-03, 06:37 PM	One evil cleric coming up: Starting out as a disciple of a healing god the character served at a remote temple in the wilds. It was well known of by the locals, but due to location it was rarely visited. This was intentional however as a number of powerful relics were also at the temple for safekeeping. Their previous owner was a powerful warlord in service of a dark god. His spirit was so strong that even after death he remained bound to these relics making them sentient. Unfortunately no one told our priest why these relics were being held, just that they were powerful and were to be protected. As time passes the grandson of this warlord mounts an attack on the temple. After the first two raids things are looking truely desperate as the head cleric of the temple has been slain and only a few poorly armed defenders remains. Remembering that there were powerful relics within the temple our goodly disciple went to the inner sanctum and dawned them. The relics: A suit of platemail in the shape of an eagle. The spirit of the former warlord still taints the armor. The most impressive part is the set of massive wings on the back which actually move . A set of claws that go with the armor. Their powers have yet to be discovered, but evil radiates from them. A helmet resembling an eagle's head. They are said to give the wearer the hunting sight of a hawk. Dawning the relics our disciple fought with everything he had to protect the temple, but ultimately was forced to flee. Unknown to him he had foiled the plans of his attackers to secure these relics when he fled with them. Current status: The disciple has taken the name "Iron Eagle" upon himself and wears the relics at almost all times. It has been years since the temple has fallen and the extended contact has permanently melded the mind within the armor and the mind of the disciple. He is now a creature bent purely on vengence and has fallen in service of one of the darker gods. He has also developed clerical powers as a result of his new relationships. He is very machavelian in his behavior. He will travel or work with anyone if he believes it will help him achieve his goals and will not hesitate to utterly destroy anything in his path. The powers of the relics have pretty much become his powers at this point (the clerical abilities and the darker attitude.)
Strife 08-05-03, 12:31 PM	Not really a tip on classes/PrC but someone might be intrested. Checkout (borrow, steal - wahtever, possibly even buy) Champions of Darkness (a Ravenloft d20 book). It contains ideas of how to create a anti-hero (duh!:D).
technodemon 08-07-03, 09:48 AM	How would a Pirate work for this concept? I could see some interesting roleplay and maybe an interesting background plus some quirks for he character. Any thoughts for this version?
technodemon 08-18-03, 02:30 AM	Well my DM has given me a chance to play a half-fiend character and looking for good prestge class. The concept for this character is that hi will be an investigator of the occult. He knows that more of him is out there and he has seen he do more good than chaotic. He is Lawful Evil and any good starting classes for this character?
PhaedrusXY 08-20-03, 01:52 AM	I'm not sure at all what kind of character you're wanting to play. Do you want cleric builds? Mage? Fighter? Rogue? A mix of some of these? Ranger? Once you figure out what you basically want, you might want to try asking for advice on the character optimization board. An occult investigator could go several different ways. He could use mundane tactics, in which case ranger and rogue levels would be good, and maybe the Bloodhound or Watch Detective prestige classes from Masters of the Wild. Or he could use magic to ferret evil out. A wizard specializing in diviner or cleric might be a good place to start for this. I don't really have any experience putting together this kind of build. Again, the CO board is probably where you'd get the most help, once you've got a basic idea of what you want.
Israfel666 08-20-03, 06:08 AM	If you are playing in the FR, a Shadow Adept is a natural choice. Darker than darkness itself, and can be evil (any kind of) or just dispassionate, cynical and detouched (neutral). I am hoping to play one such character btw, a druid.
Leap 08-20-03, 08:53 AM	Or perhaps just a Cleric of Bane who, dispairing at the chaos and 'waste' in the world seeks to impose order to "make it all work properly". Maybe he was a lawyer to begin with but found that "law breakers" would slip through legal bindings that were in his mind "not tight enough"....... Bane offered him the power to bring order to the world...... Maybe he is a Cleric / Blackguard of Bane..... [cue imperial march from Star Wars] ;)
gen_tora 08-21-03, 01:11 AM	Falon Stormwinds Ftr5 CN Feats 2 wpn fighting focus long sword Acrbatic expertise Specialized long sword Uses Twin MW Longswords Mighty Comp Longbow +3 "Batman belt" Pouches 8 1- Antidotes 2- Acid 3-Caltrops 4 to 8-oil flasks rigged as bombs Background- Born the son of a 9th generation paladin with 4 older brothers taking up the mantle of Pelor. Falon was given a choice to serve Pelor, because serving as a god's champion is path one must choose. Falon chose to be a fighter instead seeking fortune and fame as a mercenary. His Father and brothers died at the hands of a Black Guard name Synn Rokkar. Falon saw their deaths as acts of stupidity serving an uncaring god who used them as pawns. He set out to claim revenge, and instead found hope among the elves who trained him to use his speed and dexterity as weapons as much as his power. He soon found the teaching of the elven god to his favor. Not being a pawn in a gods' game but being a creature of freedom of choice unbound by rules and fruitless honor. Falon made up for his lack mystic powers with savage and well understoof methods, using ambushes, traps and oil flasks (moltov cocktails) to soften his enemies before attacking head on. Falon soon controled a mercenary unit that was known for brutal tacts and stealth ambushes. Falon has destoried entire towns with sinster traps then halted and stopped many over whelming odds.
horndgod 08-21-03, 02:09 AM	Well, you could browse the Book of Vile Darkness for a lot of possible material. The Alienist or Acolyte of the Skin PrCs from Tome and Blood might be good choices. You might want to consider Nar Demonbinder from Unapproachable East. It's a PrC that basically lets you lay the smackdown on all sorts of outsiders.
technodemon 08-27-03, 09:26 AM	Would a Bard work for my occult/arcane investigator? I am worried about the Bardic Music and which perform skill to pick for this path. If a Bard, any ideas for which perform skill?
Israfel666 08-27-03, 09:38 AM	A dark bard? Uhmm... as a Perform skill, I'd suggest to choose an instrument with a haunting tone, such as a violin or flute. Since you will deal with occult, I really recommend the feat "Requiem" from Song and Silence.
technodemon 08-27-03, 09:47 AM	Originally posted by Israfel666 A dark bard? Uhmm... as a Perform skill, I'd suggest to choose an instrument with a haunting tone, such as a violin or flute. Since you will deal with occult, I really recommend the feat "Requiem" from Song and Silence. Why dose it have to an instrument? Even though this is a dark hero type, I am a Lawful Neutral. Even ththough I am lawful, I can still have a dark atitude.
Israfel666 08-27-03, 02:09 PM	Originally posted by technodemon Why dose it have to an instrument? Even though this is a dark hero type, I am a Lawful Neutral. Even ththough I am lawful, I can still have a dark atitude. Well, it does not have to be an instrument, but IMO a violin or flute has a very dark sound/flavour (an electric bass would be the best, but they do not exist in fantasy games). Poetic/tragic speech is an alternative, but you risk becoming too angsty and ultimately cartoonish, IMO. I don't see why you need to remember me about your alignment. I don't think I supposed you were evil, chaotic or something. However, since you brought that up, remember that there is a stupid (really stupid) rule that bards cannot be lawful. You should tell your DM about this.
Lord of the Ninth 08-27-03, 06:07 PM	If you go Dark Bard, especially with a violin, try this PrC. I would like to strongly stress that I did not make it, it was made by a genius on the PrC boards, whose name I cannot remember. If anyone does know who made it please tell me so I can give them credit. Here it is: The Fiddler of the Damned And he pulled the bow across the strings, and it made an evil hiss, and then a band of demons joined in, and it sounded somethin' like this. -- Charlie Daniels, "The Devil Went Down to Georgia" Folklore and legend speak often of love affairs between bards and wild nature spirits, of musicians whose virtuoso performances seemed touched by the finger of a god. And, too, they detail darker stories -- tales of midnight contests in which legendary bards matched soul, song, and skill against demons and devils, tempting fate in search of everlasting fame. The darkest tales of all enumerate the harrowing biographies of those rare individuals to whom music is more valuable than their own souls. Fireside whispers recall the prodigous talent and tormented eyes of those who bargained their souls away in trade for infernal tutelage. They, the fiddlers of the damned, begin in obscurity, sizzle through life with the brilliance of a flaming arrow, and end in torment, the eternal victims of their own folly. Most of these tormented souls began their stories as bards, but a few sorcerers and rogues are also drawn to the dark power of the class. Hit Die: d6 Requirements: Alignment: Any non-good Skills: Perform(fiddle) 8 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 4 ranks, Knowledge(the planes) 4 ranks Feats: Skill Focus (perform), Obscure Lore (from Song and Silence) Spells: Able to cast 2nd-level arcane spells, including a spell from the Conjuration school with the (summoning) descriptor. Special: The character must make peaceful contact with an evil outsider, and sign a contract in his or her own blood trading his soul for command of the pinnacle of mortal achievement in the performance of music. Special: Must own a masterwork fiddle Class Skills: The fiddler of the damned's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Perform (Cha), Speak Language, and Spellcraft (Int). See Chapter 4 in the Player's Handbook for skill descriptions. Skill Points at Each Level: 4+Int modifier. BAB: as Bard Saves: as Bard Spellcasting: +1 level of spellcasting class, every odd level Class . . . Special Level 1 . . . . . Bardic music . . . devilish speed . . . infernal bargain 2 . . . . . Disguise spell 3 . . . . . Infernal harmonics 4 . . . . . Flashing eyes, floating hair 5 . . . . . Bend the soul 6 . . . . . ------ 7 . . . . . Death's fiddle 8 . . . . . ------ 9 . . . . . Song of the pit 10 . . . . Draw out the soul Class Features: All the following are class features of the fiddler of the damned prestige class. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Fiddlers of the damned gain no new weapon or armor proficiencies. Spells per Day/Spells Known: At every odd-numbered fiddler of the damned level gained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class he belong to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (improved chance of controlling or rebuking undead, metamagic or item creation feats, hit points beyond those he receives from the prestige class, etc.) besides an increased effective level of spellcasting. If a character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a fiddler of the damned, he must decide to which class he adds new levels. Bardic Music: At 1st level, a fiddler of the damned gains the bardic music ability if he did not already have it from a previous class. All the bardic music effects (countersong, fascinate, inspire competence, et al) become available to him immediately, subject to their usual Perform skill requirements (as per the Bard section in Chapter 3 of the Player's Handbook). Countersong requires either a musical or a poetical performance; all others may be produced through any performance type. Each bardic music effect except for suggestion expends a daily use of the bardic music ability. Suggestion does not require a daily use, but the subject must first be fascinated. Infernal Bargain: The fiddler of the damned is bound by a contract with an evil outsider. His soul is no longer his own, and upon its departure from his body as a result of death, it passes directly into the custody of the holder of his contract. As a result, the fiddler of the damned is no longer eligible to be the recipient of the raise dead, resurrection, or true resurrection spells. A wish or miracle can still restore him to life, but such an act would be certain to attract the attention of the outsider with whom the fiddler made his bargain, possibly prompting retribution from the creature. Additionally, a handful of fiddlers manage to cheat their demonic or devilish masters through other means -- by forstalling death with a transition to undeath, for instance. Fiddlers who beat their dark masters at their own game in this fashion often find themselves forced to a life of stealth and flight to avoid demonic and mundane assassins dispatched in an attempt to collect on their employer's investment, however, and generally die a final death at their hands after a greater or lesser period of time. Devilish Speed: The fiddler of the damned's unholy bargain with dark powers bears its first fruits in a preternatural sharpening of the musician's reflexes as they pertain to the performance with the fiddle. The fiddler of the damned may apply his Dexterity modifier in addition to his Charisma modifier to Perform(fiddle) checks, and to the DC to saves versus fiddle-based bardic music effects. Disguise Spell: At 2nd level, the fiddler of the damned grows in subtlety as he slips deeper under the influence of the dark forces with which he has partnered himself, learning to incorporate magic seamlessly into the fabric of his performances. In effect, he gains the Disguise Spell metamagic feat as per Song and Silence. Infernal Harmonics (Sp): At 3rd level, continued tutelage from his otherworldly allies develops the fiddler of the damned's musical prowess that his musicianship can reach across the planes of existence. By making a Perform(fiddle) check against a DC of 16, he can enact an effect identical to the Summon Monster IV spell from the Player's Handbook as cast by a sorcerer of his character level, except that he can only call on creatures of a non-good alignment. This ability expends two daily uses of the bardic music class ability. Flashing Eyes, Floating Hair (Ex): Continued delving into secrets not meant for mortal eyes begins to take its toll on the character, slightly unhinging his mind. His Wisdom score is reduced by 2 points. In return, the fiddler of the damned gains a +2 profane bonus to Charisma as it affects Perform(fiddle) checks and a +1 profane bonus to Will saves. Furthermore, the fiddler of the damned's intense, haunting otherworldliness can unhinge members of his audience. While engaged in a performance with the fiddle, the character gains a +2 insanity bonus to Intimidate checks. At level 6, this bonus increases to +4, and at level 8 it grows to +6. Bend the Soul (Sp): At 5th level, the fiddler of the damned has mastered music that mortal ears were never meant to hear. Once per day, he is capable of wrenching such screeching, dissonant wails from his fiddle that all listeners within earshot of it must make a Will save with a DC equal to 14 plus 1 for every 5 points by which the fiddler of the damned's Perform(fiddle) check exceeds 15, or suffer a Confusion effect for as long as the music is audible to them. There is no upper limit to the number of rounds that the fiddler of the damned can sustain his demonic performance, save one: for every round that he continues his performance past the first, he suffers 2d6 points of subdual damage as a result of the infirmity of his mortal body and its inability to stand up under the preternatural demands of such musicianship. Note that the fiddler can also use a bardic music effect through vocal performance concurrent with this ability, if he so desires. Death's Fiddle (Su): Through his sullen art, the fiddler of the damned learns to subvert the chain of causation itself. Once per day, he can cause the recently dead to rise again and fight on his behalf. This ability affects a number of corpses equal to half the fiddler of the damned's class level, rounded down, and only works on corpses that have been dead for up to 1 round per fiddler of the damned level. The raised corpses are alive (not undead) for the duration of the effect, and can be healed as normal. They do not lose a level, and have half of their normal hit points. Corpses within a 15ft. radius spread from the fiddler of the damned are affected. The corpses of unwilling creatures are allowed a Will save against a DC of 14 + the fiddler of the damned's Cha modifier to negate the effect. Activity of this sort is intensely draining; the fiddler of the damned suffers 1 point of temporary Constitution damage for every round that he continues to perform after the first three. While most fiddlers of the damned prefer to use their fiddle performance as the vehicle for this ability, it is possible for them to create this effect with vocals, another instrument, or any other performance technique. Note that a fiddler of the damned can maintain this ability with a fiddle or his voice while using a second means of performance to enact another bardic music effect or a Bend the Soul effect. Song of the Pit (Sp): As the fiddler of the damned approaches the nadir of his descent into the roils of the infernal powers from whom he draws his dark gifts, he acquires near-perfect communion with the heart of his dark masters' discipline. Once per day as a full-round action, he can invoke a Blasphemy effect, as a cleric of his character level. As with Death's Fiddle, the fiddler of the damned is not obliged to perform with a fiddle in order to invoke this effect, but most feel more comfortable doing so. Because this ability is a full-round action, it cannot be combined with a bardic music effect or with the Death's Fiddle or Bend the Soul abilities. Draw Out the Soul (Su): At the pinnacle of his powers, the fiddler of the damned can now draw a sort of dark vitality from his music. He ceases to accrue penalties from natural aging, and becomes immune to magical aging and the temporal stasis spell. Note that he does not actually gain the ability to stave off the coming of death when the allotted span of his life is measured out; extreme old age still results in death.
Feallmharaigh 08-30-03, 07:48 PM	technodemon, also, bards can't be lawful, they have to be chaotic.
Lord of the Ninth 08-30-03, 08:49 PM	Feallmharaigh, bards can also be neutral, the requirement is non-lawful, so neutral alignments are still cool. I'd go true neutral if you want to be a dark hero. Although I suppose CG or NG might also work, but then you generally have to be nice to almost everyone... Plus you couldn't be a Fiddler of the Damned. Oh yeah, Feallmharaigh I take it you haven't seen Reloaded, because there when Neo gets to Zion a kid there gives him a spoon, it was my favorite part of the whole movie (see my sig). Well, actually it was all pretty cool...:cool:
Feallmharaigh 08-31-03, 12:07 AM	Lord of the Ninth, touche. I hadn't remembered that scene. I thought I was almost vaguely approaching something that closely resembled wit.
gen_tora 09-02-03, 09:25 AM	Chaotic Evil all the way... This way your character can hang between sanity and insanty, has the good ol' emotional conflicts of dealing with a darker nature. Think of the movies, Mad Max, Dark Man both men where driven by desteration and revenge and had little thought for others in their way. Even, Desperato is a good example even though he leaned more toward CG...