Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Erloas 06-23-06, 10:26 AM	I'm getting ready to start a game with some players that have very little or no experience with the game. I also have only limited experience. So I figure I'll start them off right and define RP as part of the game before we even start, don't give them the chance to get used to the game as a rollplaying game. So to help things along I think I need to find some characters that they will be familar with that I can use to help define the various aspects of roleplaying. So I want to take well known movie/tv/comic characters and define their alignement and int/wis/char sort of stats. Kelso from 'That 70's Show' seems like a perfect example of high Charisma with low int and Wis. Hyde also from 'That 70's Show' seems somewhere between true neutral and chaotic neutral. Wolverine from X-Men (in various incarnations) started out as chaotic neutral but the longer he is with the X-Men the more chaotic good he gets. He seems like he has a decent Wis, average Int, and average Cha. Magneto seems somewhere between neutral Evil and Chaotic Evil. He also tends to have high Cha, pretty good Wis, and average Int. I know its a bit subjective and especially for characters that have been around a long time it tends to change. So what are other peoples takes on various characters? I think by giving them good examples of what each type is like I can help them define their characters better.
Stormbrand 06-23-06, 04:56 PM	Disagree about the X-men examples. Wolverine was one of the most popular of the X-men in part because of his exciting personality - High charisma. I'd also guess good INT because of his military/tactical background. Magneto, depends on which series - film, comic, cartoon, cartoon variation. Think of fantasy sources and characters if you are doing D&D. Druss the Legend, average int, mid-high wis and cha. Drizzt Do'urden, very high int and wis, good cha. For d20 modern we could try Jason Bourne. Exceptional int, very good wis, fair charisma.
Erloas 06-23-06, 06:54 PM	Well I was specifically looking for more well known (common to the general public) sort of examples. Especially since I don't think any of the players I'm trying to teach have extensive knowledge of common fantasy characters. (I'm not actually familiar with your examples myself, I only know Drizzt second hand, Jason Bourne from the Bourne Identity movie? and I assume probably a book too) As for wolverine, I thought lower Cha because he doesn't seem to get along with anyone else, he doesn't get people to agree with him by talking to them, he is not a diplomat. He has a strong personality, but not necessarily one that is easy to get along with. He can be influencial and intimitading, but it comes from his strength and deadliness rather then charm. Readers have a much different view of him then the other characters he interacts with. But then again the effects of charisma is a big subjective. I would have places tactics more along the line of Wis, it comes from practice and surroundings rather then from studying and researching it. But I am fairly new at RP too, so my definitions of abilities probably differ from many other people. Mostly looking for good examples of personality types so if someone asks... well what exactly does a chaotic neutral person act like, or what does a high cha, high wis, low int person act like I can give an example they will know and recongize without extensive explaination.
Fithero 06-23-06, 08:30 PM	Ok, from the TV show "Scrubs"... (sorry, its on atm) John Dorian - NG, High int and cha, low wis (kinda goofy and likeable, but very smart,) Doctor Cox - CG, High int and wis, low cha (knows alot, been around and done almost every thing, comes off as an ass sometimes though, more than willing to bend the rules for the greater good.) Bob Kelso - LN, high int and wis, low cha (pretty much the same as Dr Cox, but prefers to stick to the rules, even if it means someone will die. As for wolverine, id say he is CG with high wis, low int and cha, he is a standoffish, rage filled loner... not very likelable. He isnt that smart (when compared to others) he is more the fighter, of the group... tactics and all that he is an ace at.. but put him in front of a computer and uuhh.... :confused: Magneto would be LE, he has a plan that he follows, he isnt eratic at all, id say all his stats are high. Hulk would be CG, but his int, cha and wis would all be low... he has a general "good" motive... but hes just a big baby. Super man, LG, all his stats are high... just cos DC comics suck..... (ok, low blow :P) Just dont start them off on anything too complex, let them be humans, and keep classes to a minimum for a while till they get the hang of it. Later
herceg 06-28-06, 07:22 AM	Magneto: high intelligence (good planning) , avarage wisdom (no empathy for/with humanity; it also has a root in his background, ect. overall avarage). I don't see Superman with that high mental scores (all right, big charisma, that's all). But as Clark Kent he is a clumsy, goofy-kind of person (low charisma) Batman: high int, low wis (genious but mostly cold, detached, without compassion - ok, its a self-imposed attitude, but nonetheless). Superheroes often have cover-identity, their scores are "different" somewhat Charisma is the hardest of all: it means charm/appeal _and_ self-confidence (for society and for inner self) in one, so Batman could be both low and high (as bruce wayne he has definetely high charisma) My favorite example for Charisma is definetely John Malkovich. He's really ugly but many women find him attractive nonetheless (charm/panache). He has very high charisma. I'm afraid I'm just ranting or whatever :) (no self-confidence for me -> low charisma :D )
asurademon 06-30-06, 01:39 AM	hmm I'd call Magneto Neutral, probably true neutral, as he has no problem breaking the law, but doesn't strike me as particularly chaotic either. For one in The Secret Wars he was on the side of good, not evil (no I didn't read it, that's what I've been told by those who have though) . He will resort to violence if he thinks it's necessary, but he doesn't slaughter innocent people, and isn't particularly cruel (though certainly a jerk and a racist). He's basically a militant revolutionary that will do what he needs to acheive his goal but he's not without boundaries. Well, that's at least the impression I get from what comics with him in it I've read. The Magneto in the X-Men movies on the other hand would be evil, he had no problem with the idea of slaughtering innocent people, or the entire human race for that matter.
Fithero 06-30-06, 01:55 AM	ok people, lets just get off the xmen, we cannot seem to come to a sound answer on any of their alignments. Lets just give some examples of characters (or actions) that suit each alignment, that would make things easier. Later
asurademon 06-30-06, 04:45 PM	Star Wars characters are very good examples of alignments, especially since most everyone is familiar with them. For lawful evil, Emperor Palpatine seems like the perfect example to me. The Jedi Order would be a lawful good order. Han Solo: chaotic good Luke Skywalker: probably neutral in the law/chaos axis, definately good Yoda: I'm torn between lawful good, and neutral good on Yoda. He probably had an alignment change from lawful good (before the empire rose) to neutral good (after the empire rose).
Otogi 07-04-06, 06:55 PM	There is one character that always gave me chanllenge (and, to my dismay, the finger): The Monarch (of the Venture Bros.) I can't really catagorize hi. He runs a monarcy (no pun intended), but seems to be above the Manga Carta. He willingly offers to scare kids straight from being super villains, but to ironicly is one. He thinks of his henchmen as his children and his assitant is his (ex)girlfriend: Dr. Girlfriend. However, he still is more involved in his plans of evil than to care about love and dispposes of his henchmen like the public dose of Bubba Sparxxx CD's. He runs over 32 men and is king of his own coccoon. However, he can't get one person of just above average status to notice him (Dr. Venture). Plus, his new henchmen locked him in a cell after they asked him to give them they're guns (that also seems to be a question his intelligence; trying to get 9-millimeter guns with a like 16-darts).
Exquisite_Flopilidopilies 07-05-06, 06:22 PM	RPGs are sort of a fiction all their own, I'm not sure how easy it is to explain abstract abilities. Charisma measures not only literal charisma but also looks (sometimes), how well you disguise yourself, how well you lie, etc. Dexterity includes not only actual dexterity but agility as well. I would explain stats by grouping the skills (which actually are understandable to non-initiates) under each stat. It makes it obvious what a "high-Charisma" person is supposed to be able to do, etc. (and might prompt the player to decide what kinds of things they want to do, giving them a clue about class as well). Go back to the old D&D notion of the prime requisite ability for each class and mention them, too. For the alignment question: honestly, I wouldn't introduce more complication than just what it says in the PHB. Possibly, have them take the Wizards online test for their characters and write down the result as their alignment. I wouldn't introduce examples because you actually want to avoid a drawn-out discussion of what alignment means, since opinions vary. Tell them not to worry about alignment right now--in a few sessions, you can explain to them what alignment they've actually been playing.
Eidolon Faer 07-06-06, 03:31 PM	Sigh. My advice is that if you're new to the game and your players are new to the game you should deliberately downplay mental stats and alignment. They only tend to confuse things and get in the way. Instead, focus on developing the characters' PERSONALITIES and let the stats fall where they may. It's easier to go from understanding roleplaying to understanding alignment than it is to go the other way. ESPECIALLY with the AD&D Alignment System. Just look at the above thread. Everyone here can tell you how Han Solo or Wolverine or Magneto would probably react to a given scenario. The characters have well-defined personalities. But no two people here are likely to agree on their exact ALIGNMENT. This tells me that the AD&D Alignment stat, despite the label on the package, does not map to a character's personality, goals, or values, in any useful or straightforward way that anyone can agree on. For a far better introduction to roleplaying, personality archetypes, and party dynamics, I suggest you get your group together and watch an episode of Firefly or Buffy the Vampire Slayer, both series written by Joss Whedon, before every gaming session.