Detect Evil Bane... Need Help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Detect Evil Bane... Need Help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Zodd1888
03-20-05, 11:03 PM I need arguments and ways of foiling detect evil at level 1 (he is a level 5 pally, just started campaign). I am quite obviously an evil character and he is role playing a LG Paladin that attacks and kills any evil character he sees. Obviously this foils the paladins true morality and what he should be, but I dout I can win a argument contest with him. So I am looking for the deep seeded ways of evading it at level 1, or even just making it so I cannot be ganked by him. Please help me.
Rathis Darkwielder
03-21-05, 01:39 AM Be a bard and cast undetectable alignment every day?

Or else you could try to have someone else cast it of course (lvl3 cleric or lvl1 bard).
SD
03-21-05, 01:50 AM Wear a suit of body-covering armor at all times, including helmet and gauntlets and neck guards. It'll cost a pretty penny, but if this armor has steel on the inside and outside with a thin layer of lead in the middle, detect evil can't bypass it. Stories are full of characters whose faces have never been seen by mere mortals; your char is just getting a head start. Sensory input, however, will be an issue.

This works poorly if you're not proficient in heavy armor, though.

Oh, or slay the paladin. Tell the party that you were sent by his deity to kill him because he was being totally ridiculous.
Platinumwarlock
03-22-05, 02:22 PM There seem to be two major ways to deal with this:

First, there's out of game: Talk to him about how the party dynamic is currently working, and why you feel that his character shouldn't kill you upon finding out that you're evil. You may also want to explain to him that simply charging anything that pings on his evil-radar will only end up leading to his demise. It seems that he's playing a very "Stupid Good" character, to quote another thread, which is definitively not how one should be running a paladin. Alternatively, you can talk to your DM to work out a solution.

Second, you can deal with things in game: Undetectable Alignment will foil Detect Evil, as will many minor magical items. Beyond this, just make yourself indesposable to the party. Volunteer for missions. Do things that will make yourself valuable in their eyes. They'd be loathe to kill you if you were a useful contributing member of the party.

If you want to dispose of him, lead him into a situation where his zealotry will take him in over his head. Put him head to head against that 16th level necromancer that he doesn't know about. If he charges headlong into battle, he'll be one dead paladin.

Also, gain alliances within the party. Make sure that there are people that like you and are willing to support you if the paladin just decides to off you one day. I've done this myself, as I played a NE Telepath in a group with a LG Fighter/Cleric and a LG Paladin. By getting enough supporters within the party to join me, they'd have had to take on all the rest in order to get to me. There's strength in numbers.

Hope that gave you some help.
sirmeatball
03-22-05, 03:12 PM The problem is that it specifies in the paladin code that they will not knowingly adventure with an evil person. You need to hide it, you don't get the option of saying "Yea, I'm evil, but you need me". Someone will have to leave the party, and more than likely that someone will be you.
Zodd1888
03-22-05, 04:34 PM *reads description* not it doesn't, it just says they won't openly commit any evil acts or participate with them. If they don't see me do it, not a problem :D
SD
03-25-05, 09:29 AM Associates: While she may adventure with characters of any good or neutral alignment, a paladin will never knowingly associate with evil characters, nor will she continue an association with someone who consistently offends her moral code. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good.Wah wah wah wahhhhh...

This bit even made it into the SRD, too, so it's not like it's hidden in the back of flavor text. I hate paladins so much.
revaar
03-27-05, 07:32 PM ive him the idea that he could serve the purpose of good somuch more if he "converted" you to good, and just play him for a fool by having him think that he's changing you until you ca get a rind of mind-sheilding or somthing similar
LiXinjian
03-29-05, 09:11 AM Or buy the fanciest-looking head gear available. Something of masterwork quality, with gold and jewels if possible. Have someone from the outside cast Nystul's Magic Aura on it, then hide it from the rest of the party.

When the paladin detects your evil nature, pretend to collapse and show him the helmet. Pretend the helmet was part of a treasure you found, and that ever since you put it on, your views of good and evil have been skewed dramatically. Sob a bit, and go on and on about how hard it is to mend your ways without guidance, that you feel ashamed of liking those evil things you actually do, that your upbringing was flawless and that now you feel you've wasted it all simply by putting this stupid helmet on, etc. Use Bluff alot. Obviously, you need to make sure this scenario takes place before the cleric has access to Zone of Truth and Detect Lie. Provoke things if necessary.

Then tell him you adventure to find some mean to revert the process, and play the part when meeting NPCs of an arcane inclination. If the paladin threatens to go separate ways, tell him that's a surefire way of making sure you never see the light ever again.

Then, as revaar mention, play him for a fool until you get the means to permanently shield your alignment from his vision. Keep in mind the paladin might have doubts if he attempts a detect evil and finds your alignment doesn't register at all. He'll realize you're up to no good. That is why a Misdirection spell (or item) is better than a ring of mind-shielding, which will simply mask your alignment, not pass it for something more acceptable.

That's the advice you wanted. Here's the one you didn't request: Don't play an evil character in a good party, especially if there is a paladin who's been around longer than you have. That's usually needlessly disruptive to the game.
Steelthorn
03-30-05, 11:19 AM Teach him a lesson. You will have to run a expendable character. Make a character that by some twist of fate radiates evil but his actually LG or NG or even better CG. Chances are he won't beleive you that you are good and kill you anyway. If you have a solid DM he will strip the paladin of his powers and hopefully the player will learn to think things through in the future. So when you bring in your evil char. he may not be so eager to take you out (that is of course if atones and manages to gain back his paladinship). Also if he is a strong role-player being stripped of his paladinship could lead to some cool character development.

One more thing, if you guys read dragonlance, explain to him the the Kingpriest of Ishtar wanted to imprison or execute anyone or anything that detected evil and we all know how that turned out.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zodd1888 03-20-05, 11:03 PM	I need arguments and ways of foiling detect evil at level 1 (he is a level 5 pally, just started campaign). I am quite obviously an evil character and he is role playing a LG Paladin that attacks and kills any evil character he sees. Obviously this foils the paladins true morality and what he should be, but I dout I can win a argument contest with him. So I am looking for the deep seeded ways of evading it at level 1, or even just making it so I cannot be ganked by him. Please help me.
Rathis Darkwielder 03-21-05, 01:39 AM	Be a bard and cast undetectable alignment every day? Or else you could try to have someone else cast it of course (lvl3 cleric or lvl1 bard).
SD 03-21-05, 01:50 AM	Wear a suit of body-covering armor at all times, including helmet and gauntlets and neck guards. It'll cost a pretty penny, but if this armor has steel on the inside and outside with a thin layer of lead in the middle, detect evil can't bypass it. Stories are full of characters whose faces have never been seen by mere mortals; your char is just getting a head start. Sensory input, however, will be an issue. This works poorly if you're not proficient in heavy armor, though. Oh, or slay the paladin. Tell the party that you were sent by his deity to kill him because he was being totally ridiculous.
Platinumwarlock 03-22-05, 02:22 PM	There seem to be two major ways to deal with this: First, there's out of game: Talk to him about how the party dynamic is currently working, and why you feel that his character shouldn't kill you upon finding out that you're evil. You may also want to explain to him that simply charging anything that pings on his evil-radar will only end up leading to his demise. It seems that he's playing a very "Stupid Good" character, to quote another thread, which is definitively not how one should be running a paladin. Alternatively, you can talk to your DM to work out a solution. Second, you can deal with things in game: Undetectable Alignment will foil Detect Evil, as will many minor magical items. Beyond this, just make yourself indesposable to the party. Volunteer for missions. Do things that will make yourself valuable in their eyes. They'd be loathe to kill you if you were a useful contributing member of the party. If you want to dispose of him, lead him into a situation where his zealotry will take him in over his head. Put him head to head against that 16th level necromancer that he doesn't know about. If he charges headlong into battle, he'll be one dead paladin. Also, gain alliances within the party. Make sure that there are people that like you and are willing to support you if the paladin just decides to off you one day. I've done this myself, as I played a NE Telepath in a group with a LG Fighter/Cleric and a LG Paladin. By getting enough supporters within the party to join me, they'd have had to take on all the rest in order to get to me. There's strength in numbers. Hope that gave you some help.
sirmeatball 03-22-05, 03:12 PM	The problem is that it specifies in the paladin code that they will not knowingly adventure with an evil person. You need to hide it, you don't get the option of saying "Yea, I'm evil, but you need me". Someone will have to leave the party, and more than likely that someone will be you.
Zodd1888 03-22-05, 04:34 PM	reads description not it doesn't, it just says they won't openly commit any evil acts or participate with them. If they don't see me do it, not a problem :D
SD 03-25-05, 09:29 AM	Associates: While she may adventure with characters of any good or neutral alignment, a paladin will never knowingly associate with evil characters, nor will she continue an association with someone who consistently offends her moral code. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good.Wah wah wah wahhhhh... This bit even made it into the SRD, too, so it's not like it's hidden in the back of flavor text. I hate paladins so much.
revaar 03-27-05, 07:32 PM	ive him the idea that he could serve the purpose of good somuch more if he "converted" you to good, and just play him for a fool by having him think that he's changing you until you ca get a rind of mind-sheilding or somthing similar
LiXinjian 03-29-05, 09:11 AM	Or buy the fanciest-looking head gear available. Something of masterwork quality, with gold and jewels if possible. Have someone from the outside cast Nystul's Magic Aura on it, then hide it from the rest of the party. When the paladin detects your evil nature, pretend to collapse and show him the helmet. Pretend the helmet was part of a treasure you found, and that ever since you put it on, your views of good and evil have been skewed dramatically. Sob a bit, and go on and on about how hard it is to mend your ways without guidance, that you feel ashamed of liking those evil things you actually do, that your upbringing was flawless and that now you feel you've wasted it all simply by putting this stupid helmet on, etc. Use Bluff alot. Obviously, you need to make sure this scenario takes place before the cleric has access to Zone of Truth and Detect Lie. Provoke things if necessary. Then tell him you adventure to find some mean to revert the process, and play the part when meeting NPCs of an arcane inclination. If the paladin threatens to go separate ways, tell him that's a surefire way of making sure you never see the light ever again. Then, as revaar mention, play him for a fool until you get the means to permanently shield your alignment from his vision. Keep in mind the paladin might have doubts if he attempts a detect evil and finds your alignment doesn't register at all. He'll realize you're up to no good. That is why a Misdirection spell (or item) is better than a ring of mind-shielding, which will simply mask your alignment, not pass it for something more acceptable. That's the advice you wanted. Here's the one you didn't request: Don't play an evil character in a good party, especially if there is a paladin who's been around longer than you have. That's usually needlessly disruptive to the game.
Steelthorn 03-30-05, 11:19 AM	Teach him a lesson. You will have to run a expendable character. Make a character that by some twist of fate radiates evil but his actually LG or NG or even better CG. Chances are he won't beleive you that you are good and kill you anyway. If you have a solid DM he will strip the paladin of his powers and hopefully the player will learn to think things through in the future. So when you bring in your evil char. he may not be so eager to take you out (that is of course if atones and manages to gain back his paladinship). Also if he is a strong role-player being stripped of his paladinship could lead to some cool character development. One more thing, if you guys read dragonlance, explain to him the the Kingpriest of Ishtar wanted to imprison or execute anyone or anything that detected evil and we all know how that turned out.