DM Dilemma [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

DM Dilemma [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
cirathorn
07-12-03, 09:25 AM ** If this should be somewhere else let me know**
Hola mi Amigo's,

Well here I am getting ready to run another game and each time I dm it seems a problem I have gets larger and larger. My players are completely into their characters, which is awesome, and I get a ton of emails on a constant basis from them, which is also awesome. But when game time day comes everyone sems to be at each others throats and they all need me to justify why xactly they would all work together for more then one game.
Now a basic starting justification is not a problem for me to come up with, but, after the game starts should I be responsible for keeping the party together for every hour of every session or should I expect the cooperation that I used to get from them? This problem has lead to PvP on more then one occasion and its starting to sound to me that thats what they want, but when I give them an outlet to beat the snot out of each other, no one is up for it.
inci
07-12-03, 11:21 AM slap them a bit :smirk:

why dont they make their characters together as a group ?
if they are really that creative and love to make backgrounds&stuff that shouldnt be a problem at all.
sure, they need to make compromises, but who doesnt ?

It should not be your job as DM to hold them together.
Roleplaying is about being a group in the most cases. So let your players come up with a reason why they stick together and why the NE necromancer adventures together with the paladin and another good cleric (had that once, it can work with the right motivation).
but if they just want to play their character without caring what others create ... soloadventures anyone ? :) its fun too, and you wont have the PKing.

just my 2 cents
Skrimshaw
07-12-03, 03:34 PM allow only LG NG CG LN and N

helps when i DM
ShadeGirl
07-12-03, 05:04 PM But is incrediby restrictive! What if through events in the story and roleplaying, someone's character shifts to that 'banned' alignment! Then that is even more problems...

I would talk to each of the group individually cirathorn. Tell them that you aren't having fun when their chars constanty fighting. Make sure you tell them that they NEED to speak to the other players and come up with ways that the chars would be able to get along. The chars don't have to be the best of friends mind you, just be able to tolerate one another.

Honestly, this is happened in my group and every time the players talk to one another before introducing characters so we know in advance if there will be a major personality conflict and come up with ways to avoid it. It works rather well.

-ShadeGirl
Talmariel
07-13-03, 12:27 AM It doesn't sound like a case of imcompatible alignments to me, it sounds like a bunch of players who are playing their characters as the 'who-are-these-jerks-and-why-do-I-even-bother' types. There's only one cure for uncooprative players: tough love. You definately need to beat them into submission, but everyone wants fun so you can't be mean about it. There are two roads to travel, and it all depends on which one your group will respond to.

The first is the obvious, stop trying to hold them together. If they ask why they're sticking around out of character, shut them up. They don't go to you for answers about their character's motivations, it's their character. Tell them straight out, if your character doesn't want to stay, they can leave. It's not a threat, it's not mean, it's honest. Matter-of-fact attitudes work wonders here. If they decide to leave, it will either make you run two scenarios until that player decides the action sucks alone, or it will snap the rest of the party in line and they'll actually try to get the departing to stay.

Method number two, turn up the volume. If your players have time to whine about each other's company, you need to put the focus elsewhere. For adventurers (especially these, from the sound of it), there is only one thing more important than how cool they're looking by standing out of the crowd (like everyone else), and that's survival. Go for the throat. Kill someone, that gets attention real fast. You have to concoct a threat that is constant. Evil wizards with constant access to scry spells and demonic summonings go for the kill when the party's guard is down, and they'll know it. If they're in a country that doesn't need to be friendly towards them for the story to still work, work it around so they become hunted throughout the land. Get them to irritate an assassins' guild. Anything that puts them in mortal fear at all hours of the day and night. One of my favorite campaigns was a Legend of the Five Rings game where everyone hated each other, that is until they were ordered by their respective daimyos to go hunting a felon in the Shadowlands. After the third day they were literally running full-tilt for the Kaiu Wall, and they were bonded for life to each other. The point is, they spent those three days fearing for their lives and depending on one another to keep them from dying. They learned to like each other by the first oni that put one of them into negative, and nobody knew the Heal skill (they all wanted to give it a try though! That poor character took about five more damage, and got down to -9, before someone rolled high enough to stabilize them).

The point is, it isn't your responsibility to keep them cooprative out of game, but it is your responsibility to create a motivating story. If they won't meet you halfway, you are not responsible for covering the rest of the distance. You give them a kick in the balls, and either they take the hint or you give the game up and start over.

Best of luck.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
cirathorn 07-12-03, 09:25 AM	If this should be somewhere else let me know Hola mi Amigo's, Well here I am getting ready to run another game and each time I dm it seems a problem I have gets larger and larger. My players are completely into their characters, which is awesome, and I get a ton of emails on a constant basis from them, which is also awesome. But when game time day comes everyone sems to be at each others throats and they all need me to justify why xactly they would all work together for more then one game. Now a basic starting justification is not a problem for me to come up with, but, after the game starts should I be responsible for keeping the party together for every hour of every session or should I expect the cooperation that I used to get from them? This problem has lead to PvP on more then one occasion and its starting to sound to me that thats what they want, but when I give them an outlet to beat the snot out of each other, no one is up for it.
inci 07-12-03, 11:21 AM	slap them a bit :smirk: why dont they make their characters together as a group ? if they are really that creative and love to make backgrounds&stuff that shouldnt be a problem at all. sure, they need to make compromises, but who doesnt ? It should not be your job as DM to hold them together. Roleplaying is about being a group in the most cases. So let your players come up with a reason why they stick together and why the NE necromancer adventures together with the paladin and another good cleric (had that once, it can work with the right motivation). but if they just want to play their character without caring what others create ... soloadventures anyone ? :) its fun too, and you wont have the PKing. just my 2 cents
Skrimshaw 07-12-03, 03:34 PM	allow only LG NG CG LN and N helps when i DM
ShadeGirl 07-12-03, 05:04 PM	But is incrediby restrictive! What if through events in the story and roleplaying, someone's character shifts to that 'banned' alignment! Then that is even more problems... I would talk to each of the group individually cirathorn. Tell them that you aren't having fun when their chars constanty fighting. Make sure you tell them that they NEED to speak to the other players and come up with ways that the chars would be able to get along. The chars don't have to be the best of friends mind you, just be able to tolerate one another. Honestly, this is happened in my group and every time the players talk to one another before introducing characters so we know in advance if there will be a major personality conflict and come up with ways to avoid it. It works rather well. -ShadeGirl
Talmariel 07-13-03, 12:27 AM	It doesn't sound like a case of imcompatible alignments to me, it sounds like a bunch of players who are playing their characters as the 'who-are-these-jerks-and-why-do-I-even-bother' types. There's only one cure for uncooprative players: tough love. You definately need to beat them into submission, but everyone wants fun so you can't be mean about it. There are two roads to travel, and it all depends on which one your group will respond to. The first is the obvious, stop trying to hold them together. If they ask why they're sticking around out of character, shut them up. They don't go to you for answers about their character's motivations, it's their character. Tell them straight out, if your character doesn't want to stay, they can leave. It's not a threat, it's not mean, it's honest. Matter-of-fact attitudes work wonders here. If they decide to leave, it will either make you run two scenarios until that player decides the action sucks alone, or it will snap the rest of the party in line and they'll actually try to get the departing to stay. Method number two, turn up the volume. If your players have time to whine about each other's company, you need to put the focus elsewhere. For adventurers (especially these, from the sound of it), there is only one thing more important than how cool they're looking by standing out of the crowd (like everyone else), and that's survival. Go for the throat. Kill someone, that gets attention real fast. You have to concoct a threat that is constant. Evil wizards with constant access to scry spells and demonic summonings go for the kill when the party's guard is down, and they'll know it. If they're in a country that doesn't need to be friendly towards them for the story to still work, work it around so they become hunted throughout the land. Get them to irritate an assassins' guild. Anything that puts them in mortal fear at all hours of the day and night. One of my favorite campaigns was a Legend of the Five Rings game where everyone hated each other, that is until they were ordered by their respective daimyos to go hunting a felon in the Shadowlands. After the third day they were literally running full-tilt for the Kaiu Wall, and they were bonded for life to each other. The point is, they spent those three days fearing for their lives and depending on one another to keep them from dying. They learned to like each other by the first oni that put one of them into negative, and nobody knew the Heal skill (they all wanted to give it a try though! That poor character took about five more damage, and got down to -9, before someone rolled high enough to stabilize them). The point is, it isn't your responsibility to keep them cooprative out of game, but it is your responsibility to create a motivating story. If they won't meet you halfway, you are not responsible for covering the rest of the distance. You give them a kick in the balls, and either they take the hint or you give the game up and start over. Best of luck.