Does this actually work? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Does this actually work? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
nerdling10
03-10-08, 11:11 PM Monk 1/Kensai 2/Fighter 7

All information is irrelevant except for what is mentioned (skills, feats, etc)

Can I use the Kensai's Signature Weapon ability to Enchant my unarmed strike as a Throwing, Returning weapon? The kensai class description says that I can enchant my unarmed strike using that ability, but can I actually throw my fists at people?

Just a random musing...
Drackthor
03-10-08, 11:15 PM Monk 1/Kensai 2/Fighter 7

All information is irrelevant except for what is mentioned (skills, feats, etc)

Can I use the Kensai's Signature Weapon ability to Enchant my unarmed strike as a Throwing, Returning weapon? The kensai class description says that I can enchant my unarmed strike using that ability, but can I actually throw my fists at people?

Just a random musing...

If there isn't a rule somewhere that says you can't enchant your fists, I'm going to be very, very upset.
Neveroth
03-10-08, 11:23 PM Heavens. RAW aside, I'd never allow it. :(
Drackthor
03-10-08, 11:27 PM Heavens. RAW aside, I'd never allow it. :(

I'd allow it on two conditions:

1. Con or Str of 15 or Higher
2. You can only do this for one fist, as the other hand will be used to remove your striking hand from the wrist.

Is the idea that a Monk devoted his life to learning a combat style that basically equated to ripping his arm off insane? Yes it is. Is it more insane then fighting large jell-O cubes that for some reason are sentient enough to not like you? Well, that's where the line gets blurry.
Mad_Jack
03-10-08, 11:51 PM Unless you have some way of re-attaching or regrowing your fist, this wouldn't be very efficient. By RAW, the returning enchantment would return your severed hand to your other hand, it wouldn't reattach it. You'd need Quick Draw to take your hand out of your pocket, lol.

You should make the character Warforged, and name him Gadget.
Nox_Noctis
03-11-08, 03:24 AM Unless you have some way of re-attaching or regrowing your fist, this wouldn't be very efficient. By RAW, the returning enchantment would return your severed hand to your other hand, it wouldn't reattach it. You'd need Quick Draw to take your hand out of your pocket, lol.

You should make the character Warforged, and name him Gadget.

And take the Master Inquisitive Prestige Class... >_> Call yourself an inspector though... It has a ring to it.
nerdling10
03-11-08, 06:42 PM So DM allowing, this actually works? Awesome! Now, does anybody know of any feats or something that allows you to reattach severed body parts (possible warforged?)
Firaeki
03-11-08, 08:21 PM So DM allowing, this actually works? Awesome! Now, does anybody know of any feats or something that allows you to reattach severed body parts (possible warforged?)

You could just be a troll or something else with regeneration. o_O
StackingZerglings
03-11-08, 10:06 PM :heehee :heehee :heehee
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Ripping off your own limbs and throwing them at enemies is so funny. I still think that enchanting that halfling that you have living in your bag of holding and using HIM as your weapon would be even more funny.
CrimsonDeath
03-12-08, 01:13 AM So DM allowing, this actually works?

DM allowing, anything works. The trouble is finding a DM who'll allow this.

Now, does anybody know of any feats or something that allows you to reattach severed body parts (possible warforged?)

There's a feat somewhere (Dragon Magazine, I think) called Troll-Blooded that gives the character Regeneration 1, with fire and acid dealing normal damage. Just about every creature I've seen with Regeneration can reattach a severed limb instantly by holding it to the stump. However, I'm pretty sure the feat also makes you Fatigued in sunlight, so you'd probably also want a level of Horizon Walker for Desert Terrain Mastery. Also, I forget what the prerequisites are, and I doubt a Warforged can actually take the feat.
Terjon of the Blue Rose
03-13-08, 01:23 AM Personally I would allow it as a DM. I would require that you take both throwing and returning at once (so actually level 3 kensai) and simply make it into a blast of concussive force similar to the effect of a bloodwind spell (keeping bludeoning and NOT making it sonic).
Zodiaq7
03-15-08, 09:43 PM I agree with Terjon on this one.
Heliomance
03-17-08, 05:41 PM If you do this, make sure you have a really big nose and a purple top, and wear white gloves.

If you've figured out a way to make Rayman in D&D, I will love you forever.
playswithfire
03-20-08, 02:43 PM Personally, I'd say that throwing, returning firsts worked like Dhalsim (http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/6645/Dhalsim.gif) from Street fighter

An odder alternative:
Monk 1/Fighter 2/Warblade 2/Bloodstom Blade 4/Kensai 2

Kensai 2 to make them throwing, Bloodstorm Blade 4 makes them ricochet back as free actions
Drackthor
03-21-08, 02:27 AM The Street Fighter reference made me think of another possibility. He doesn't need to remove a limb to use the enchants, but in fact extend them a decent length, and then have them snap back to normal, a la Necro, a Street Fighter character.
elliott20
03-21-08, 02:29 PM dahlsim, necro, same thing. so does this mean prior to taking the returning ability, their fists would sort of extend out and just... stay limp out there?
Drackthor
03-21-08, 02:57 PM dahlsim, necro, same thing. so does this mean prior to taking the returning ability, their fists would sort of extend out and just... stay limp out there?

I suppose if you didn't activate the returning then they would stay extended, yes.
elliott20
03-21-08, 03:07 PM that's such a funny image in my head.

just imagine it. guy throws his punch out, and then realizes he needs to spend time reeling his now extremely long arm back into it's sockets....
Drackthor
03-23-08, 07:28 PM that's such a funny image in my head.

just imagine it. guy throws his punch out, and then realizes he needs to spend time reeling his now extremely long arm back into it's sockets....

Fishing would be the newest X-treme sport.
ApollyonsChosen
04-05-08, 03:31 PM Yeah you can throw your hands....why not just blow fireballs out your ass while your at it?It doesn't say in the rules you can't.
This is retarded i am sorry,allow it if your cheesy.
The_Shaman
04-05-08, 05:51 PM The thing is, Apollyonschosen, by any normal logic your fists can't cause an undead to disintegrate or have your arrows split in mid-flight, carry a 110 V current, and blast through an enemy like a railgun despite flying at a much lower speed than would make it possible, but a Kensai can do that. Terjon's idea would be the most fitting - make their fists have a concussive blast effect a la Bloodwind. I'm pretty sure Wuxia movies have already done that more than a few times.
ApollyonsChosen
04-05-08, 11:12 PM Ok since you can enchant your fists,and they do lethal damage,they are still not a "melee weapon" and i don't think you could apply the throwing special quality to them in the first place.Yes your fists qualify you as armed and yadda yadda,but they are not "melee weapons".Just my interpretation mind you.
And even if you could,it sounds silly.But hey i am also not the serious police so feel free.Maybe you should post this on the CO board i am sure they could answer this question better over there.
But you might be better served imbuing an actual weapon or using some other property..mechanically anyway.But if thats the flavor you want well hey why not.Sorry if my above post made me seem like an ass,i am much off the time.
runestar
04-05-08, 11:44 PM Ok since you can enchant your fists,and they do lethal damage,they are still not a "melee weapon"

Unarmed strike is listed in the weapon table in the PHB, so technically, it is a melee weapon.

My interpretation is a bit more unorthodox. Technically, you are your own unarmed strike (since you can make unarmed strikes with any part of your own body). This means that your whole body is one giant throwing, returning melee weapon, because you are actually enchanting your whole body, and not just your fists...

So you wouldn't need to detach your fists or anything. You could just hurl yourself at your foe (but you still do only your unarmed strike damage), and at the end of your round, you would automatically be returned to your starting square...:P
Mad_Jack
04-06-08, 04:59 AM My interpretation is a bit more unorthodox. Technically, you are your own unarmed strike (since you can make unarmed strikes with any part of your own body). This means that your whole body is one giant throwing, returning melee weapon, because you are actually enchanting your whole body, and not just your fists...

So you wouldn't need to detach your fists or anything. You could just hurl yourself at your foe (but you still do only your unarmed strike damage), and at the end of your round, you would automatically be returned to your starting square...:P

Well, hell, while we're at it, just throw on the brilliant energy ability and you're now either a DC Comics superhero or a character from a fighting game... :D
lamrar
04-06-08, 07:09 AM Monk 1/Kensai 2/Fighter 7

All information is irrelevant except for what is mentioned (skills, feats, etc)

Can I use the Kensai's Signature Weapon ability to Enchant my unarmed strike as a Throwing, Returning weapon? The kensai class description says that I can enchant my unarmed strike using that ability, but can I actually throw my fists at people?

Just a random musing...

I'm so going to play rayman as my next character. Rejoice! :D
Jacob_Crowe
04-07-08, 02:25 PM Unarmed strike is listed in the weapon table in the PHB, so technically, it is a melee weapon.

My interpretation is a bit more unorthodox. Technically, you are your own unarmed strike (since you can make unarmed strikes with any part of your own body). This means that your whole body is one giant throwing, returning melee weapon, because you are actually enchanting your whole body, and not just your fists...

So you wouldn't need to detach your fists or anything. You could just hurl yourself at your foe (but you still do only your unarmed strike damage), and at the end of your round, you would automatically be returned to your starting square...:P

that sounds good, except that in the kensai entry in CW it states that you must choose a specific part of your body to imbue with power... so while you could have yourself a +5 throwing returning mighty cleaving headbutt you cannot make yourself into a +3 impact thundering shocking burst throwing returning wrecking ball as much fun as that sounds... although you'd have to be a dwarf to really pull that off :plotting:
ApollyonsChosen
04-11-08, 09:38 PM And i don't think if you gaze at this question through the lens of common sense,you realise "this sounds kind of stupid".Can characters do amazing ,reality bending things?Of course.
But do you really think anyone intended for this to work?Does it make sense?Aren't there much better enchantments,with better effects,and that make at least a little bit of sense?What if your thrown fist were to enter an anti magic field,or dead magic zone?What if you miss?Is it possible to lose it or have it destroyed?Why am i pondering this if i think it's ridiculous?All interesting questions indeed......
ApollyonsChosen
04-11-08, 09:39 PM Funny maybe,awesome ,not really.Useful...no not really.Kid stuff.
Heliomance
04-11-08, 11:27 PM But of course the ultimate question is "Is it funny (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfFunny) and/or awesome (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool)?" And the answer to that is a resounding "Yes!"
taylors005
04-14-08, 11:35 PM if you throw in some warlock levels i think it would definitely work as long as you take disembodied hand

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
nerdling10 03-10-08, 11:11 PM	Monk 1/Kensai 2/Fighter 7 All information is irrelevant except for what is mentioned (skills, feats, etc) Can I use the Kensai's Signature Weapon ability to Enchant my unarmed strike as a Throwing, Returning weapon? The kensai class description says that I can enchant my unarmed strike using that ability, but can I actually throw my fists at people? Just a random musing...
Drackthor 03-10-08, 11:15 PM	Monk 1/Kensai 2/Fighter 7 All information is irrelevant except for what is mentioned (skills, feats, etc) Can I use the Kensai's Signature Weapon ability to Enchant my unarmed strike as a Throwing, Returning weapon? The kensai class description says that I can enchant my unarmed strike using that ability, but can I actually throw my fists at people? Just a random musing... If there isn't a rule somewhere that says you can't enchant your fists, I'm going to be very, very upset.
Neveroth 03-10-08, 11:23 PM	Heavens. RAW aside, I'd never allow it. :(
Drackthor 03-10-08, 11:27 PM	Heavens. RAW aside, I'd never allow it. :( I'd allow it on two conditions: 1. Con or Str of 15 or Higher 2. You can only do this for one fist, as the other hand will be used to remove your striking hand from the wrist. Is the idea that a Monk devoted his life to learning a combat style that basically equated to ripping his arm off insane? Yes it is. Is it more insane then fighting large jell-O cubes that for some reason are sentient enough to not like you? Well, that's where the line gets blurry.
Mad_Jack 03-10-08, 11:51 PM	Unless you have some way of re-attaching or regrowing your fist, this wouldn't be very efficient. By RAW, the returning enchantment would return your severed hand to your other hand, it wouldn't reattach it. You'd need Quick Draw to take your hand out of your pocket, lol. You should make the character Warforged, and name him Gadget.
Nox_Noctis 03-11-08, 03:24 AM	Unless you have some way of re-attaching or regrowing your fist, this wouldn't be very efficient. By RAW, the returning enchantment would return your severed hand to your other hand, it wouldn't reattach it. You'd need Quick Draw to take your hand out of your pocket, lol. You should make the character Warforged, and name him Gadget. And take the Master Inquisitive Prestige Class... >_> Call yourself an inspector though... It has a ring to it.
nerdling10 03-11-08, 06:42 PM	So DM allowing, this actually works? Awesome! Now, does anybody know of any feats or something that allows you to reattach severed body parts (possible warforged?)
Firaeki 03-11-08, 08:21 PM	So DM allowing, this actually works? Awesome! Now, does anybody know of any feats or something that allows you to reattach severed body parts (possible warforged?) You could just be a troll or something else with regeneration. o_O
StackingZerglings 03-11-08, 10:06 PM	:heehee :heehee :heehee :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Ripping off your own limbs and throwing them at enemies is so funny. I still think that enchanting that halfling that you have living in your bag of holding and using HIM as your weapon would be even more funny.
CrimsonDeath 03-12-08, 01:13 AM	So DM allowing, this actually works? DM allowing, anything works. The trouble is finding a DM who'll allow this. Now, does anybody know of any feats or something that allows you to reattach severed body parts (possible warforged?) There's a feat somewhere (Dragon Magazine, I think) called Troll-Blooded that gives the character Regeneration 1, with fire and acid dealing normal damage. Just about every creature I've seen with Regeneration can reattach a severed limb instantly by holding it to the stump. However, I'm pretty sure the feat also makes you Fatigued in sunlight, so you'd probably also want a level of Horizon Walker for Desert Terrain Mastery. Also, I forget what the prerequisites are, and I doubt a Warforged can actually take the feat.
Terjon of the Blue Rose 03-13-08, 01:23 AM	Personally I would allow it as a DM. I would require that you take both throwing and returning at once (so actually level 3 kensai) and simply make it into a blast of concussive force similar to the effect of a bloodwind spell (keeping bludeoning and NOT making it sonic).
Zodiaq7 03-15-08, 09:43 PM	I agree with Terjon on this one.
Heliomance 03-17-08, 05:41 PM	If you do this, make sure you have a really big nose and a purple top, and wear white gloves. If you've figured out a way to make Rayman in D&D, I will love you forever.
playswithfire 03-20-08, 02:43 PM	Personally, I'd say that throwing, returning firsts worked like Dhalsim (http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/6645/Dhalsim.gif) from Street fighter An odder alternative: Monk 1/Fighter 2/Warblade 2/Bloodstom Blade 4/Kensai 2 Kensai 2 to make them throwing, Bloodstorm Blade 4 makes them ricochet back as free actions
Drackthor 03-21-08, 02:27 AM	The Street Fighter reference made me think of another possibility. He doesn't need to remove a limb to use the enchants, but in fact extend them a decent length, and then have them snap back to normal, a la Necro, a Street Fighter character.
elliott20 03-21-08, 02:29 PM	dahlsim, necro, same thing. so does this mean prior to taking the returning ability, their fists would sort of extend out and just... stay limp out there?
Drackthor 03-21-08, 02:57 PM	dahlsim, necro, same thing. so does this mean prior to taking the returning ability, their fists would sort of extend out and just... stay limp out there? I suppose if you didn't activate the returning then they would stay extended, yes.
elliott20 03-21-08, 03:07 PM	that's such a funny image in my head. just imagine it. guy throws his punch out, and then realizes he needs to spend time reeling his now extremely long arm back into it's sockets....
Drackthor 03-23-08, 07:28 PM	that's such a funny image in my head. just imagine it. guy throws his punch out, and then realizes he needs to spend time reeling his now extremely long arm back into it's sockets.... Fishing would be the newest X-treme sport.
ApollyonsChosen 04-05-08, 03:31 PM	Yeah you can throw your hands....why not just blow fireballs out your ass while your at it?It doesn't say in the rules you can't. This is retarded i am sorry,allow it if your cheesy.
The_Shaman 04-05-08, 05:51 PM	The thing is, Apollyonschosen, by any normal logic your fists can't cause an undead to disintegrate or have your arrows split in mid-flight, carry a 110 V current, and blast through an enemy like a railgun despite flying at a much lower speed than would make it possible, but a Kensai can do that. Terjon's idea would be the most fitting - make their fists have a concussive blast effect a la Bloodwind. I'm pretty sure Wuxia movies have already done that more than a few times.
ApollyonsChosen 04-05-08, 11:12 PM	Ok since you can enchant your fists,and they do lethal damage,they are still not a "melee weapon" and i don't think you could apply the throwing special quality to them in the first place.Yes your fists qualify you as armed and yadda yadda,but they are not "melee weapons".Just my interpretation mind you. And even if you could,it sounds silly.But hey i am also not the serious police so feel free.Maybe you should post this on the CO board i am sure they could answer this question better over there. But you might be better served imbuing an actual weapon or using some other property..mechanically anyway.But if thats the flavor you want well hey why not.Sorry if my above post made me seem like an ass,i am much off the time.
runestar 04-05-08, 11:44 PM	Ok since you can enchant your fists,and they do lethal damage,they are still not a "melee weapon" Unarmed strike is listed in the weapon table in the PHB, so technically, it is a melee weapon. My interpretation is a bit more unorthodox. Technically, you are your own unarmed strike (since you can make unarmed strikes with any part of your own body). This means that your whole body is one giant throwing, returning melee weapon, because you are actually enchanting your whole body, and not just your fists... So you wouldn't need to detach your fists or anything. You could just hurl yourself at your foe (but you still do only your unarmed strike damage), and at the end of your round, you would automatically be returned to your starting square...:P
Mad_Jack 04-06-08, 04:59 AM	My interpretation is a bit more unorthodox. Technically, you are your own unarmed strike (since you can make unarmed strikes with any part of your own body). This means that your whole body is one giant throwing, returning melee weapon, because you are actually enchanting your whole body, and not just your fists... So you wouldn't need to detach your fists or anything. You could just hurl yourself at your foe (but you still do only your unarmed strike damage), and at the end of your round, you would automatically be returned to your starting square...:P Well, hell, while we're at it, just throw on the brilliant energy ability and you're now either a DC Comics superhero or a character from a fighting game... :D
lamrar 04-06-08, 07:09 AM	Monk 1/Kensai 2/Fighter 7 All information is irrelevant except for what is mentioned (skills, feats, etc) Can I use the Kensai's Signature Weapon ability to Enchant my unarmed strike as a Throwing, Returning weapon? The kensai class description says that I can enchant my unarmed strike using that ability, but can I actually throw my fists at people? Just a random musing... I'm so going to play rayman as my next character. Rejoice! :D
Jacob_Crowe 04-07-08, 02:25 PM	Unarmed strike is listed in the weapon table in the PHB, so technically, it is a melee weapon. My interpretation is a bit more unorthodox. Technically, you are your own unarmed strike (since you can make unarmed strikes with any part of your own body). This means that your whole body is one giant throwing, returning melee weapon, because you are actually enchanting your whole body, and not just your fists... So you wouldn't need to detach your fists or anything. You could just hurl yourself at your foe (but you still do only your unarmed strike damage), and at the end of your round, you would automatically be returned to your starting square...:P that sounds good, except that in the kensai entry in CW it states that you must choose a specific part of your body to imbue with power... so while you could have yourself a +5 throwing returning mighty cleaving headbutt you cannot make yourself into a +3 impact thundering shocking burst throwing returning wrecking ball as much fun as that sounds... although you'd have to be a dwarf to really pull that off :plotting:
ApollyonsChosen 04-11-08, 09:38 PM	And i don't think if you gaze at this question through the lens of common sense,you realise "this sounds kind of stupid".Can characters do amazing ,reality bending things?Of course. But do you really think anyone intended for this to work?Does it make sense?Aren't there much better enchantments,with better effects,and that make at least a little bit of sense?What if your thrown fist were to enter an anti magic field,or dead magic zone?What if you miss?Is it possible to lose it or have it destroyed?Why am i pondering this if i think it's ridiculous?All interesting questions indeed......
ApollyonsChosen 04-11-08, 09:39 PM	Funny maybe,awesome ,not really.Useful...no not really.Kid stuff.
Heliomance 04-11-08, 11:27 PM	But of course the ultimate question is "Is it funny (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfFunny) and/or awesome (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool)?" And the answer to that is a resounding "Yes!"
taylors005 04-14-08, 11:35 PM	if you throw in some warlock levels i think it would definitely work as long as you take disembodied hand