Draft of paladin code, please comment [Archive] - Wizards Community

Draft of paladin code, please comment [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Puskara
07-22-06, 07:25 PM I am going to be playing a paladin for the first time and I want to start creating the character by forming his code. I think this is one of those things that people often save to the last minute but for me the code is the character. So please give me all the comments and criticism you can.

First a few details:

Race = Human
Gender = Male
Age = 20 something
Character Theme = Humanism, Benevolence, Redemption, Moral Philosopher

Basically the idea is to create a paladin who is dedicated to the greater good of all sentient beings, without regard to the wills of the Powers (gods). Essentially things like politics and religion are and aside to him, if they serve the greater good then so be it, if not, then they must be ammended or done away with. This not only puts him at odds with evil forces but potentially with the forces of good and their agenda is usually colored by the will of some Power.

Without further ado...

Noblesse Oblige: A Paladins Creed

A paladin lives an ethical life and recognizes that ethical values are derived from the needs and interests of sentient beings as tested by experience. A paladin grounds values in the welfare of sentient beings as shaped by circumstances, interests, and concerns and understands that this extends from the individual to the entirety of the Material Plane. A paladin is committed to treating all sentient beings as having inherent worth and dignity and to make informed choices in a context of freedom consonant with responsibility and the common good.

A paladin’s fulfillment emerges from individual participation in the service of benevolent ideals. A paladin aims to create the fullest and most meaningful life, full of a deep sense of purpose, finding wonder and joy in the beauty of sentient existence, its joys and tragedies, and even in the inevitability of death. A paladin relies upon benevolent culture to provide comfort in times of want and encouragement in times of plenty.

A paladin recognizes that all sentient beings are entitled to the right of self-determination and are not obligated to serve the will of the Powers. Regardless of the origin of a creature’s race or of their supposed “nature”, a paladin understands that all sentient creatures are the sum of their physical forms and their minds or souls and that these are forged over a lifetime by their heredity, personal choices, and their environment. A paladin accepts this life fully as being sufficient for happiness and purpose and that obedience to a Power is not required for such. A paladin understands that by choosing to serve the greater good for all sentient beings regardless of the whims and wills of the Powers that an afterlife, much less a happy one, is not assured. Despite this a paladin moves forward confidently into the future, undaunted, and unafraid, knowing that the legacy of an ethical life is more valuable that any celestial pleasure.

A paladin is social by nature and finds meaning in relationships. A paladin longs for and strives toward a world of mutual care and concern, free of cruelty and its consequences, where differences are resolved cooperatively without resorting to violence. A paladin recognizes the right of individuality and the fact of interdependence and how this leads to a rich and meaningful life, encourages us to enrich the lives of others, and inspires the hope of attaining peace, justice, and opportunity for all sentient beings. To this end the paladin upholds just laws and societies with the understanding that they exist purely to benefit sentient beings.

A paladin works to benefit society, thus maximizing individual happiness. A paladin recognizes that culture has, to some extent, removed the burdens or mere survival from many sentient beings. As culture has the power to reduce suffering in this way a paladin strives to improve society and to develop both the local community and the community that is the whole of the Material Plane. A paladin seeks to minimize the inequities of circumstance and ability and supports a just distribution of nature’s resources and the fruits of all sentient beings effort so that as many as possible may enjoy a good life.

A paladin is concerned for the well being of all, is committed to value the variety of all sentient life, and to respect those of differing yet benevolent views. A paladin works to uphold the equal enjoyment and liberty of all sentient beings. A paladin cooperates and tolerates those whose views are different as long as these views are also directed to the mutual happiness and benefit of all sentient beings. To this end a paladin intervenes to thwart or turn to good any efforts made to harm, always employing diplomacy and reason. As a last resort a paladin will employ force for the protection or the rights and happiness of sentient beings. To a paladin the use of force can never constitute a victory, even if violence is unavoidable; to a paladin it is always lamentable.

Puskara
TheDanishCartoonist
07-24-06, 07:33 AM I like it. It gives you some freedom and discretion in the application of force. You don't have to "detect and smite," based on my reading of your code, and in fact, it seems like that would go against many of the precepts. A character that followed this code would be a strong force for good. It should be doable to roleplay this character without causing all the "paladin problems" that are so often posted about on these boards.

However, I believe that it is an important part of a paladin's code to not condone evil acts. A couple questions you might want to consider:

1.) Does force always have to be a last resort? Say a band of schoolchildren are attacked by marauders (or something), would you have to try to talk them down first, or could you use force to protect innocents, without attempting diplomacy?

2.) Say you are attacked by another good character (for whatever reason). Can you use force to defend yourself if necessary? Could you use lethal force?

3.) Can you associate with evil characters, or tolerate minor evil, to bring about a greater good or prevent a greater evil?

4.) Do you have a personal code of honor or conduct, such as a chivalric code, or can you use any means necessary in the name of good?
Yuri_Zhivago
07-24-06, 11:14 AM Oh, goodness...

Your paladin doesn't happen to belong to a Unitarian Universalist congregation, hmm? :rofl:

Go here and you'll see what I mean... UUA.org (http://www.uua.org/)
Derren S.
07-24-06, 11:49 AM A paladin lives an ethical life and recognizes that ethical values are derived from the needs and interests of sentient beings as tested by experience. A paladin grounds values in the welfare of sentient beings as shaped by circumstances, interests, and concerns and understands that this extends from the individual to the entirety of the Material Plane. A paladin is committed to treating all sentient beings as having inherent worth and dignity and to make informed choices in a context of freedom consonant with responsibility and the common good.

What? Sorry but english is not my first language and I have no idea what you want to say here. Try to make it less technical

A paladin’s fulfillment emerges from individual participation in the service of benevolent ideals. A paladin aims to create the fullest and most meaningful life, full of a deep sense of purpose, finding wonder and joy in the beauty of sentient existence, its joys and tragedies, and even in the inevitability of death. A paladin relies upon benevolent culture to provide comfort in times of want and encouragement in times of plenty.

The bolded part sounds good, the explanation imo doesn't. I don't see why a paladin have to like everything he does. Don't forget that Paladins are very lawful which their code should reflect.

A paladin recognizes that all sentient beings are entitled to the right of self-determination and are not obligated to serve the will of the Powers. Regardless of the origin of a creature’s race or of their supposed “nature”, a paladin understands that all sentient creatures are the sum of their physical forms and their minds or souls and that these are forged over a lifetime by their heredity, personal choices, and their environment. A paladin accepts this life fully as being sufficient for happiness and purpose and that obedience to a Power is not required for such. A paladin understands that by choosing to serve the greater good for all sentient beings regardless of the whims and wills of the Powers that an afterlife, much less a happy one, is not assured. Despite this a paladin moves forward confidently into the future, undaunted, and unafraid, knowing that the legacy of an ethical life is more valuable that any celestial pleasure.

Standard anti racism clause. It might leed to some problems with creatures which do not follow the "forged over a lifetime" concept (always evil outsiders)

A paladin is social by nature and finds meaning in relationships. A paladin longs for and strives toward a world of mutual care and concern, free of cruelty and its consequences, where differences are resolved cooperatively without resorting to violence. A paladin recognizes the right of individuality and the fact of interdependence and how this leads to a rich and meaningful life, encourages us to enrich the lives of others, and inspires the hope of attaining peace, justice, and opportunity for all sentient beings. To this end the paladin upholds just laws and societies with the understanding that they exist purely to benefit sentient beings.

Sorry, but why has "beeing social" to be in a code? The normal text is good but the bolded part is misleeding

A paladin works to benefit society, thus maximizing individual happiness. A paladin recognizes that culture has, to some extent, removed the burdens or mere survival from many sentient beings. As culture has the power to reduce suffering in this way a paladin strives to improve society and to develop both the local community and the community that is the whole of the Material Plane. A paladin seeks to minimize the inequities of circumstance and ability and supports a just distribution of nature’s resources and the fruits of all sentient beings effort so that as many as possible may enjoy a good life.

The bolded part contradicts itself. Individual happines and social benefit might conflict.

A paladin is concerned for the well being of all, is committed to value the variety of all sentient life, and to respect those of differing yet benevolent views. A paladin works to uphold the equal enjoyment and liberty of all sentient beings. A paladin cooperates and tolerates those whose views are different as long as these views are also directed to the mutual happiness and benefit of all sentient beings. To this end a paladin intervenes to thwart or turn to good any efforts made to harm, always employing diplomacy and reason. As a last resort a paladin will employ force for the protection or the rights and happiness of sentient beings. To a paladin the use of force can never constitute a victory, even if violence is unavoidable; to a paladin it is always lamentable.

Sounds ok.

A question, why is that the code of a paladin? It sounds more like a code of a pecifistic cleric. Paladins are warriors first and formost but that aspect isn't covered by the code.
Kendrik
07-24-06, 03:06 PM You mention that it is not required for individuals to submit to the will of the powers. I assume that means no-one is 'required' to follow a particular religion, or any religion.
But, does an individual have to submit to the will of the society they live in?
Is robbing from the rich and giving to the poor evil? It redistributes the bounty and goods (of nature or otherwise) for the better enjoyment by the masses, but I just worked 15 years to accumulate a comfortable life to have it all taken from me by some upstart 'Paladin' to feed a bunch of lazy slobs!
Will you try to take prisoners when ever possible, using subdual and such? Or kill them outright. Do you care?
Will you backstab and ambush as good tactics, or give everyone 'one last chance.' Do evil doers deserve a chance?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Puskara 07-22-06, 07:25 PM	I am going to be playing a paladin for the first time and I want to start creating the character by forming his code. I think this is one of those things that people often save to the last minute but for me the code is the character. So please give me all the comments and criticism you can. First a few details: Race = Human Gender = Male Age = 20 something Character Theme = Humanism, Benevolence, Redemption, Moral Philosopher Basically the idea is to create a paladin who is dedicated to the greater good of all sentient beings, without regard to the wills of the Powers (gods). Essentially things like politics and religion are and aside to him, if they serve the greater good then so be it, if not, then they must be ammended or done away with. This not only puts him at odds with evil forces but potentially with the forces of good and their agenda is usually colored by the will of some Power. Without further ado... Noblesse Oblige: A Paladins Creed A paladin lives an ethical life and recognizes that ethical values are derived from the needs and interests of sentient beings as tested by experience. A paladin grounds values in the welfare of sentient beings as shaped by circumstances, interests, and concerns and understands that this extends from the individual to the entirety of the Material Plane. A paladin is committed to treating all sentient beings as having inherent worth and dignity and to make informed choices in a context of freedom consonant with responsibility and the common good. A paladin’s fulfillment emerges from individual participation in the service of benevolent ideals. A paladin aims to create the fullest and most meaningful life, full of a deep sense of purpose, finding wonder and joy in the beauty of sentient existence, its joys and tragedies, and even in the inevitability of death. A paladin relies upon benevolent culture to provide comfort in times of want and encouragement in times of plenty. A paladin recognizes that all sentient beings are entitled to the right of self-determination and are not obligated to serve the will of the Powers. Regardless of the origin of a creature’s race or of their supposed “nature”, a paladin understands that all sentient creatures are the sum of their physical forms and their minds or souls and that these are forged over a lifetime by their heredity, personal choices, and their environment. A paladin accepts this life fully as being sufficient for happiness and purpose and that obedience to a Power is not required for such. A paladin understands that by choosing to serve the greater good for all sentient beings regardless of the whims and wills of the Powers that an afterlife, much less a happy one, is not assured. Despite this a paladin moves forward confidently into the future, undaunted, and unafraid, knowing that the legacy of an ethical life is more valuable that any celestial pleasure. A paladin is social by nature and finds meaning in relationships. A paladin longs for and strives toward a world of mutual care and concern, free of cruelty and its consequences, where differences are resolved cooperatively without resorting to violence. A paladin recognizes the right of individuality and the fact of interdependence and how this leads to a rich and meaningful life, encourages us to enrich the lives of others, and inspires the hope of attaining peace, justice, and opportunity for all sentient beings. To this end the paladin upholds just laws and societies with the understanding that they exist purely to benefit sentient beings. A paladin works to benefit society, thus maximizing individual happiness. A paladin recognizes that culture has, to some extent, removed the burdens or mere survival from many sentient beings. As culture has the power to reduce suffering in this way a paladin strives to improve society and to develop both the local community and the community that is the whole of the Material Plane. A paladin seeks to minimize the inequities of circumstance and ability and supports a just distribution of nature’s resources and the fruits of all sentient beings effort so that as many as possible may enjoy a good life. A paladin is concerned for the well being of all, is committed to value the variety of all sentient life, and to respect those of differing yet benevolent views. A paladin works to uphold the equal enjoyment and liberty of all sentient beings. A paladin cooperates and tolerates those whose views are different as long as these views are also directed to the mutual happiness and benefit of all sentient beings. To this end a paladin intervenes to thwart or turn to good any efforts made to harm, always employing diplomacy and reason. As a last resort a paladin will employ force for the protection or the rights and happiness of sentient beings. To a paladin the use of force can never constitute a victory, even if violence is unavoidable; to a paladin it is always lamentable. Puskara
TheDanishCartoonist 07-24-06, 07:33 AM	I like it. It gives you some freedom and discretion in the application of force. You don't have to "detect and smite," based on my reading of your code, and in fact, it seems like that would go against many of the precepts. A character that followed this code would be a strong force for good. It should be doable to roleplay this character without causing all the "paladin problems" that are so often posted about on these boards. However, I believe that it is an important part of a paladin's code to not condone evil acts. A couple questions you might want to consider: 1.) Does force always have to be a last resort? Say a band of schoolchildren are attacked by marauders (or something), would you have to try to talk them down first, or could you use force to protect innocents, without attempting diplomacy? 2.) Say you are attacked by another good character (for whatever reason). Can you use force to defend yourself if necessary? Could you use lethal force? 3.) Can you associate with evil characters, or tolerate minor evil, to bring about a greater good or prevent a greater evil? 4.) Do you have a personal code of honor or conduct, such as a chivalric code, or can you use any means necessary in the name of good?
Yuri_Zhivago 07-24-06, 11:14 AM	Oh, goodness... Your paladin doesn't happen to belong to a Unitarian Universalist congregation, hmm? :rofl: Go here and you'll see what I mean... UUA.org (http://www.uua.org/)
Derren S. 07-24-06, 11:49 AM	A paladin lives an ethical life and recognizes that ethical values are derived from the needs and interests of sentient beings as tested by experience. A paladin grounds values in the welfare of sentient beings as shaped by circumstances, interests, and concerns and understands that this extends from the individual to the entirety of the Material Plane. A paladin is committed to treating all sentient beings as having inherent worth and dignity and to make informed choices in a context of freedom consonant with responsibility and the common good. What? Sorry but english is not my first language and I have no idea what you want to say here. Try to make it less technical A paladin’s fulfillment emerges from individual participation in the service of benevolent ideals. A paladin aims to create the fullest and most meaningful life, full of a deep sense of purpose, finding wonder and joy in the beauty of sentient existence, its joys and tragedies, and even in the inevitability of death. A paladin relies upon benevolent culture to provide comfort in times of want and encouragement in times of plenty. The bolded part sounds good, the explanation imo doesn't. I don't see why a paladin have to like everything he does. Don't forget that Paladins are very lawful which their code should reflect. A paladin recognizes that all sentient beings are entitled to the right of self-determination and are not obligated to serve the will of the Powers. Regardless of the origin of a creature’s race or of their supposed “nature”, a paladin understands that all sentient creatures are the sum of their physical forms and their minds or souls and that these are forged over a lifetime by their heredity, personal choices, and their environment. A paladin accepts this life fully as being sufficient for happiness and purpose and that obedience to a Power is not required for such. A paladin understands that by choosing to serve the greater good for all sentient beings regardless of the whims and wills of the Powers that an afterlife, much less a happy one, is not assured. Despite this a paladin moves forward confidently into the future, undaunted, and unafraid, knowing that the legacy of an ethical life is more valuable that any celestial pleasure. Standard anti racism clause. It might leed to some problems with creatures which do not follow the "forged over a lifetime" concept (always evil outsiders) A paladin is social by nature and finds meaning in relationships. A paladin longs for and strives toward a world of mutual care and concern, free of cruelty and its consequences, where differences are resolved cooperatively without resorting to violence. A paladin recognizes the right of individuality and the fact of interdependence and how this leads to a rich and meaningful life, encourages us to enrich the lives of others, and inspires the hope of attaining peace, justice, and opportunity for all sentient beings. To this end the paladin upholds just laws and societies with the understanding that they exist purely to benefit sentient beings. Sorry, but why has "beeing social" to be in a code? The normal text is good but the bolded part is misleeding A paladin works to benefit society, thus maximizing individual happiness. A paladin recognizes that culture has, to some extent, removed the burdens or mere survival from many sentient beings. As culture has the power to reduce suffering in this way a paladin strives to improve society and to develop both the local community and the community that is the whole of the Material Plane. A paladin seeks to minimize the inequities of circumstance and ability and supports a just distribution of nature’s resources and the fruits of all sentient beings effort so that as many as possible may enjoy a good life. The bolded part contradicts itself. Individual happines and social benefit might conflict. A paladin is concerned for the well being of all, is committed to value the variety of all sentient life, and to respect those of differing yet benevolent views. A paladin works to uphold the equal enjoyment and liberty of all sentient beings. A paladin cooperates and tolerates those whose views are different as long as these views are also directed to the mutual happiness and benefit of all sentient beings. To this end a paladin intervenes to thwart or turn to good any efforts made to harm, always employing diplomacy and reason. As a last resort a paladin will employ force for the protection or the rights and happiness of sentient beings. To a paladin the use of force can never constitute a victory, even if violence is unavoidable; to a paladin it is always lamentable. Sounds ok. A question, why is that the code of a paladin? It sounds more like a code of a pecifistic cleric. Paladins are warriors first and formost but that aspect isn't covered by the code.
Kendrik 07-24-06, 03:06 PM	You mention that it is not required for individuals to submit to the will of the powers. I assume that means no-one is 'required' to follow a particular religion, or any religion. But, does an individual have to submit to the will of the society they live in? Is robbing from the rich and giving to the poor evil? It redistributes the bounty and goods (of nature or otherwise) for the better enjoyment by the masses, but I just worked 15 years to accumulate a comfortable life to have it all taken from me by some upstart 'Paladin' to feed a bunch of lazy slobs! Will you try to take prisoners when ever possible, using subdual and such? Or kill them outright. Do you care? Will you backstab and ambush as good tactics, or give everyone 'one last chance.' Do evil doers deserve a chance?