Drow Paladin [Archive] - Wizards Community

Drow Paladin [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Napoleon98
05-14-07, 07:31 PM Ok, this is starting to bug me because I can't figure out how I want to play this guy OoC. Originally I was going to play him as sort of the merciless Paladin, obviously fights for what is just and good in the world, but has no quams about being judge jury and executioner all in a single round... But it just doesn't feel... right.
I mean I still want that to play a big part of him, just need to flesh out the details... As a Background, the campaign is set in Cormyr, and long sotry short hell has broken loose, the King is a kid, and his general is hiring adventurers to bring control back to the land as demons, zentarims, and other evil SOB's try to take a peice for themselves.
It's supposed to take us from lvl 1-20, and theres me, a Human ranger/assassin (and DM allowed him to wave the LE alignment req, so hes LN), a Human warmage, Human Cleric, and Human Sorcerer/Mindbender... We're probably going to die because theres not much synergy between us, but w/e .
The ranger is essentially a professional demon hunter who will kill anything for money. Cleric is.. well, run of the mill good guy / heal bot (he never really has a background), warmage is essentially a veteran soldier of cormyr who is going to put his destructive skills to good use and help his people. and hte sorc/mindbender... an a-hole who's used magic to compel people to do what he wants since, well as long as he's been able to.

So the main problem comes into how I'm going to play my guy, so that a)I don't want to kill the assassin for killing people and being a general dick. And not want to kill the mindbender for taking away peoples free will and using other people and manipulating them to meet his own selfish needs...

Oh, and I'm a Paladin of Kelemvor atm (though thats just because I picked the first one I saw with Bastard Sword as a favored weapon...lol) But there are Rp possibilities from that... but yea, anyhting at all to help make my character come to life would be greatly appreciated. And sorry this is so long, I just like to give a full picture so you can see every angle of it as I can.
DojiHoturi
05-15-07, 01:13 AM There is nothing wrong with your character development.

There is soemthing wrong with your party development. The GM and players should have gotten together when you were all making your characters to ensure that your group would be able to work together.

We all have cool character concepts we want to play, but if that concept is going to be disruptive to the group as a whole, it will affect the game negatively and people will not enjoy themselves as much as they should (if at all).

I like your paladin concept, a lot, in fact. There is nothing wrong with playing Lawful Good as a kind of judge/jury/executioner type. The other PCs in your group sound interesting, too. The problem is they do not belong with each other.

I think your party is doomed to eventually fall apart unless some of you are willing to alter your PCs concept.

2 pennies,

Doji
Prom
05-15-07, 02:56 AM Hi Napoleon98,

I agree with DojiHoturi, you have characters with potential party conflicts. Is a Paladin the right character at this time. First level characters die very easily, put this Paladin on hold. Wait for the Sorcerer/Mindbender and Ranger/Assassin to get themselves killed. Then when a shift in character is possible, wheel out the Paladin.

Prom
Napoleon98
05-15-07, 04:51 AM I agree with the fact that our party doens't really "mesh well" and sort of figured changing myself would be the easiest way to go, but I sort of like the idea of just waiting to take my pally lvls.
Westbound
05-15-07, 06:17 AM I have to disagree with Doji-san and Prom there on one point. You're going to have a long wait before those guys kill themselves off somehow, and even if they do, it's likely they're going to roll up the same type of character again. You could appeal to the other players to make characters that would appreciate the assistance of a Paladin, but my experience tells me that would not work out so well because those guys want to play "bad-asses," and if they're in that frame of mind, they're going to look at your Paladin, drow or not, as an impediment to their fun.

You're fighting against an age-old prejudice against Paladins, brought on by improper role-playing of just what Paladin's are. As I've stated on other posts, Paladin's aren't preachers, they're the example. You are part of a greater conflict that makes whatever problems and strife other characters are going through look paltry in comparison. Unfortunately, some people who've played Paladins in the past have made them out to be sanctimonious, preachy, self-righteous and holier-than-thou in general attitude and demeanor - and all of these are inappropriate behaviors for any Paladin. A Paladin might indeed be such a person, but he won't have his powers for very long because all of those attitudes are self-serving, used to elevate the Paladin's (and the player's) own self-esteem at the expense of others. Such a thing is not the hallmark of what a Paladin should be.

You have to tell your fellow players your intentions to play a Paladin and how you intend to play him. The vision of sanctimonious self-righteousness has to be shattered, but you have to give them a premise to go by. However, at the same time, do not let them bully you. If they are doing something that you would object to, by all means object. Tell them to cease and desist, and protect the innocent as much as you can. It's likely that they'll try to wave your intention to play a Paladin as the example rather than as a self-righteous preacher in your face to get you to back down somehow, but don't relent. A Paladin is a person of principle first and foremost. Relenting in the face of evil, even if it's something petty, is not what a Paladin should ever do.

I would have a discussion at the table about it. It's a prejudice that has to be broken. It could very well be that your players are going through the "I want to be a bad-guy" phase, and to play a Paladin during that phase is not likely going to win you any allies.
EpicEvokerElf
05-15-07, 04:06 PM I've seen that phase. I quit DMing because one of my players was PERMANENTLY stuck in that phase. He always played drow that didn't care about anything but the numbers. They killed my helpful NPCs and ignored my hooks, let the prisoners die and of course robbed everyone blind. I was sick of it, so I quit.

You might not have to do anything so drastic, but ask your DM about it. Chances are he won't let the others die, so a paladin might not be your best bet right now. Wait until they get bored for the above reasons, then make your paladin and say, "Let's be good guys now." It might work.

Just my 2cp.
Westbound
05-15-07, 10:50 PM I've seen that phase. I quit DMing because one of my players was PERMANENTLY stuck in that phase. He always played drow that didn't care about anything but the numbers. They killed my helpful NPCs and ignored my hooks, let the prisoners die and of course robbed everyone blind. I was sick of it, so I quit.

You might not have to do anything so drastic, but ask your DM about it. Chances are he won't let the others die, so a paladin might not be your best bet right now. Wait until they get bored for the above reasons, then make your paladin and say, "Let's be good guys now." It might work.

Just my 2cp.

It's a shame you decided to quit DMing because of this guy. I've ran into these people before, and I just kill their characters off. Your world can be a cruel place. This is the only time I ever fudge die rolls, because I know that this guy isn't playing the game, he's playing you as the DM. He's trying to push you and the other players around; and it's times like that that it's time to bring down the thunder.

Most morons like that never learn, and it's my intention to sour his entire experience to the pleasure of the other players. I want him to quit my table, and I want him to storm off in a huff. If he changes his ways, he will do so at the point where he's rolling up his second character; hopefully, he'll think long and hard as to why and how his first character died. If not, it's truly a sign of immaturity along with his other shenanigans. And you have to draw the line somewhere.

Usually, I don't mind when players steal from others within the context of role-playing. But if I'm dealing with the "Spoiler," it's a whole different issue. The Spoiler is trying to ruin other people's fun, particularly yours. That may not entirely be his intent, but that's his result. At my table, you don't mess with the DM. Not unless you want to lose your character.

Remember, you have all the power as DM. It's partly your job to ensure that the other players are having a good time. If some idiot is messing things up, it's time to bring him down in humiliation. Make him understand that RPGs aren't just about numbers, but role-playing and courtesy are factors as well.
Terjon of the Blue Rose
05-18-07, 03:29 AM Alright I'm dealing with the paladin question first since thats what the thread is here for.

Your group can work out quite well actually. You've got a stealth, a healer, 2 mages, and you get to be tank. Alignment wise you aren't even too bad off.

The key, I think, is going to be the fact that all hell broke loose. You are a paladin and you have a job to do. With this much going on you probably have taken a view of tools at hand in regards to your allies. They aren't people you want to associate with. They aren't people you trust. They are here now and what you have to work with. Kelemvor can further your compatability since he is a pretty good guy (god) for a god of death. You're a drow too and that means that unless you had truly exceptional circumstances you've seen what happens when evil runs rampant through civilization. You don't want to see it happen again. You've probably seen drow noble houses obliterated in bids for power. You saw innocents die meaningless deaths. Now you will do whatever it takes to stop it from happening here where evil is not so ingrained.

Treat your allies as allies rather than friends... at least at first. You don't need to like them but should show respect to the fact that they are working towards a respectable goal regardless of their motivations.

As for synergy... well thats a matter of playing and learning what works for the group. You may find that some old tricks don't work but if both you and the others are willing to work together then you'll find new ones to make up for it.

NOW It's a shame you decided to quit DMing because of this guy. I've ran into these people before, and I just kill their characters off. Your world can be a cruel place. This is the only time I ever fudge die rolls, because I know that this guy isn't playing the game, he's playing you as the DM. He's trying to push you and the other players around; and it's times like that that it's time to bring down the thunder.

Most morons like that never learn, and it's my intention to sour his entire experience to the pleasure of the other players. I want him to quit my table, and I want him to storm off in a huff. If he changes his ways, he will do so at the point where he's rolling up his second character; hopefully, he'll think long and hard as to why and how his first character died. If not, it's truly a sign of immaturity along with his other shenanigans. And you have to draw the line somewhere.

Usually, I don't mind when players steal from others within the context of role-playing. But if I'm dealing with the "Spoiler," it's a whole different issue. The Spoiler is trying to ruin other people's fun, particularly yours. That may not entirely be his intent, but that's his result. At my table, you don't mess with the DM. Not unless you want to lose your character.

Remember, you have all the power as DM. It's partly your job to ensure that the other players are having a good time. If some idiot is messing things up, it's time to bring him down in humiliation. Make him understand that RPGs aren't just about numbers, but role-playing and courtesy are factors as well.

WOW.:eek:

That may well be the worst DMing I've ever heard of.:yuck:

You intentionally ruined the game for someone!:weep: I hate to break it to ya but the DM does NOT have all the power. He makes the setting the villians and the npcs. He crafts the plot and does more work than anyone else. HE DOES NOT have the right, though, to ruin the game for anyone. Spoilers may need to be removed from the game but not if its a conflict between you and them... only if its a conflict between them and everyone. Most of the time the guy with no BG just doesn't find that part of the game fun. You want to teach a guy what role-playing games are about you do it by letting him seeing others having fun. Yeah many of these guys never do learn but they have a right to be there too. If they are acting like an npc follower then treat them like one and if they don't like it they have an easy route to a fix. I respected your other talk on paladins even though I see your view as somewhat limited. Even though I disagreed with you I am willing to let you have your own oppinion. Why then can you not see that if the guy is at the table its because he is enjoying himself. Maybe he doesn't want what you want out of the game but that doesn't mean you kill him off till he leaves. It means you look for a compromise. phew.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Napoleon98 05-14-07, 07:31 PM	Ok, this is starting to bug me because I can't figure out how I want to play this guy OoC. Originally I was going to play him as sort of the merciless Paladin, obviously fights for what is just and good in the world, but has no quams about being judge jury and executioner all in a single round... But it just doesn't feel... right. I mean I still want that to play a big part of him, just need to flesh out the details... As a Background, the campaign is set in Cormyr, and long sotry short hell has broken loose, the King is a kid, and his general is hiring adventurers to bring control back to the land as demons, zentarims, and other evil SOB's try to take a peice for themselves. It's supposed to take us from lvl 1-20, and theres me, a Human ranger/assassin (and DM allowed him to wave the LE alignment req, so hes LN), a Human warmage, Human Cleric, and Human Sorcerer/Mindbender... We're probably going to die because theres not much synergy between us, but w/e . The ranger is essentially a professional demon hunter who will kill anything for money. Cleric is.. well, run of the mill good guy / heal bot (he never really has a background), warmage is essentially a veteran soldier of cormyr who is going to put his destructive skills to good use and help his people. and hte sorc/mindbender... an a-hole who's used magic to compel people to do what he wants since, well as long as he's been able to. So the main problem comes into how I'm going to play my guy, so that a)I don't want to kill the assassin for killing people and being a general dick. And not want to kill the mindbender for taking away peoples free will and using other people and manipulating them to meet his own selfish needs... Oh, and I'm a Paladin of Kelemvor atm (though thats just because I picked the first one I saw with Bastard Sword as a favored weapon...lol) But there are Rp possibilities from that... but yea, anyhting at all to help make my character come to life would be greatly appreciated. And sorry this is so long, I just like to give a full picture so you can see every angle of it as I can.
DojiHoturi 05-15-07, 01:13 AM	There is nothing wrong with your character development. There is soemthing wrong with your party development. The GM and players should have gotten together when you were all making your characters to ensure that your group would be able to work together. We all have cool character concepts we want to play, but if that concept is going to be disruptive to the group as a whole, it will affect the game negatively and people will not enjoy themselves as much as they should (if at all). I like your paladin concept, a lot, in fact. There is nothing wrong with playing Lawful Good as a kind of judge/jury/executioner type. The other PCs in your group sound interesting, too. The problem is they do not belong with each other. I think your party is doomed to eventually fall apart unless some of you are willing to alter your PCs concept. 2 pennies, Doji
Prom 05-15-07, 02:56 AM	Hi Napoleon98, I agree with DojiHoturi, you have characters with potential party conflicts. Is a Paladin the right character at this time. First level characters die very easily, put this Paladin on hold. Wait for the Sorcerer/Mindbender and Ranger/Assassin to get themselves killed. Then when a shift in character is possible, wheel out the Paladin. Prom
Napoleon98 05-15-07, 04:51 AM	I agree with the fact that our party doens't really "mesh well" and sort of figured changing myself would be the easiest way to go, but I sort of like the idea of just waiting to take my pally lvls.
Westbound 05-15-07, 06:17 AM	I have to disagree with Doji-san and Prom there on one point. You're going to have a long wait before those guys kill themselves off somehow, and even if they do, it's likely they're going to roll up the same type of character again. You could appeal to the other players to make characters that would appreciate the assistance of a Paladin, but my experience tells me that would not work out so well because those guys want to play "bad-asses," and if they're in that frame of mind, they're going to look at your Paladin, drow or not, as an impediment to their fun. You're fighting against an age-old prejudice against Paladins, brought on by improper role-playing of just what Paladin's are. As I've stated on other posts, Paladin's aren't preachers, they're the example. You are part of a greater conflict that makes whatever problems and strife other characters are going through look paltry in comparison. Unfortunately, some people who've played Paladins in the past have made them out to be sanctimonious, preachy, self-righteous and holier-than-thou in general attitude and demeanor - and all of these are inappropriate behaviors for any Paladin. A Paladin might indeed be such a person, but he won't have his powers for very long because all of those attitudes are self-serving, used to elevate the Paladin's (and the player's) own self-esteem at the expense of others. Such a thing is not the hallmark of what a Paladin should be. You have to tell your fellow players your intentions to play a Paladin and how you intend to play him. The vision of sanctimonious self-righteousness has to be shattered, but you have to give them a premise to go by. However, at the same time, do not let them bully you. If they are doing something that you would object to, by all means object. Tell them to cease and desist, and protect the innocent as much as you can. It's likely that they'll try to wave your intention to play a Paladin as the example rather than as a self-righteous preacher in your face to get you to back down somehow, but don't relent. A Paladin is a person of principle first and foremost. Relenting in the face of evil, even if it's something petty, is not what a Paladin should ever do. I would have a discussion at the table about it. It's a prejudice that has to be broken. It could very well be that your players are going through the "I want to be a bad-guy" phase, and to play a Paladin during that phase is not likely going to win you any allies.
EpicEvokerElf 05-15-07, 04:06 PM	I've seen that phase. I quit DMing because one of my players was PERMANENTLY stuck in that phase. He always played drow that didn't care about anything but the numbers. They killed my helpful NPCs and ignored my hooks, let the prisoners die and of course robbed everyone blind. I was sick of it, so I quit. You might not have to do anything so drastic, but ask your DM about it. Chances are he won't let the others die, so a paladin might not be your best bet right now. Wait until they get bored for the above reasons, then make your paladin and say, "Let's be good guys now." It might work. Just my 2cp.
Westbound 05-15-07, 10:50 PM	I've seen that phase. I quit DMing because one of my players was PERMANENTLY stuck in that phase. He always played drow that didn't care about anything but the numbers. They killed my helpful NPCs and ignored my hooks, let the prisoners die and of course robbed everyone blind. I was sick of it, so I quit. You might not have to do anything so drastic, but ask your DM about it. Chances are he won't let the others die, so a paladin might not be your best bet right now. Wait until they get bored for the above reasons, then make your paladin and say, "Let's be good guys now." It might work. Just my 2cp. It's a shame you decided to quit DMing because of this guy. I've ran into these people before, and I just kill their characters off. Your world can be a cruel place. This is the only time I ever fudge die rolls, because I know that this guy isn't playing the game, he's playing you as the DM. He's trying to push you and the other players around; and it's times like that that it's time to bring down the thunder. Most morons like that never learn, and it's my intention to sour his entire experience to the pleasure of the other players. I want him to quit my table, and I want him to storm off in a huff. If he changes his ways, he will do so at the point where he's rolling up his second character; hopefully, he'll think long and hard as to why and how his first character died. If not, it's truly a sign of immaturity along with his other shenanigans. And you have to draw the line somewhere. Usually, I don't mind when players steal from others within the context of role-playing. But if I'm dealing with the "Spoiler," it's a whole different issue. The Spoiler is trying to ruin other people's fun, particularly yours. That may not entirely be his intent, but that's his result. At my table, you don't mess with the DM. Not unless you want to lose your character. Remember, you have all the power as DM. It's partly your job to ensure that the other players are having a good time. If some idiot is messing things up, it's time to bring him down in humiliation. Make him understand that RPGs aren't just about numbers, but role-playing and courtesy are factors as well.
Terjon of the Blue Rose 05-18-07, 03:29 AM	Alright I'm dealing with the paladin question first since thats what the thread is here for. Your group can work out quite well actually. You've got a stealth, a healer, 2 mages, and you get to be tank. Alignment wise you aren't even too bad off. The key, I think, is going to be the fact that all hell broke loose. You are a paladin and you have a job to do. With this much going on you probably have taken a view of tools at hand in regards to your allies. They aren't people you want to associate with. They aren't people you trust. They are here now and what you have to work with. Kelemvor can further your compatability since he is a pretty good guy (god) for a god of death. You're a drow too and that means that unless you had truly exceptional circumstances you've seen what happens when evil runs rampant through civilization. You don't want to see it happen again. You've probably seen drow noble houses obliterated in bids for power. You saw innocents die meaningless deaths. Now you will do whatever it takes to stop it from happening here where evil is not so ingrained. Treat your allies as allies rather than friends... at least at first. You don't need to like them but should show respect to the fact that they are working towards a respectable goal regardless of their motivations. As for synergy... well thats a matter of playing and learning what works for the group. You may find that some old tricks don't work but if both you and the others are willing to work together then you'll find new ones to make up for it. NOW It's a shame you decided to quit DMing because of this guy. I've ran into these people before, and I just kill their characters off. Your world can be a cruel place. This is the only time I ever fudge die rolls, because I know that this guy isn't playing the game, he's playing you as the DM. He's trying to push you and the other players around; and it's times like that that it's time to bring down the thunder. Most morons like that never learn, and it's my intention to sour his entire experience to the pleasure of the other players. I want him to quit my table, and I want him to storm off in a huff. If he changes his ways, he will do so at the point where he's rolling up his second character; hopefully, he'll think long and hard as to why and how his first character died. If not, it's truly a sign of immaturity along with his other shenanigans. And you have to draw the line somewhere. Usually, I don't mind when players steal from others within the context of role-playing. But if I'm dealing with the "Spoiler," it's a whole different issue. The Spoiler is trying to ruin other people's fun, particularly yours. That may not entirely be his intent, but that's his result. At my table, you don't mess with the DM. Not unless you want to lose your character. Remember, you have all the power as DM. It's partly your job to ensure that the other players are having a good time. If some idiot is messing things up, it's time to bring him down in humiliation. Make him understand that RPGs aren't just about numbers, but role-playing and courtesy are factors as well. WOW.:eek: That may well be the worst DMing I've ever heard of.:yuck: You intentionally ruined the game for someone!:weep: I hate to break it to ya but the DM does NOT have all the power. He makes the setting the villians and the npcs. He crafts the plot and does more work than anyone else. HE DOES NOT have the right, though, to ruin the game for anyone. Spoilers may need to be removed from the game but not if its a conflict between you and them... only if its a conflict between them and everyone. Most of the time the guy with no BG just doesn't find that part of the game fun. You want to teach a guy what role-playing games are about you do it by letting him seeing others having fun. Yeah many of these guys never do learn but they have a right to be there too. If they are acting like an npc follower then treat them like one and if they don't like it they have an easy route to a fix. I respected your other talk on paladins even though I see your view as somewhat limited. Even though I disagreed with you I am willing to let you have your own oppinion. Why then can you not see that if the guy is at the table its because he is enjoying himself. Maybe he doesn't want what you want out of the game but that doesn't mean you kill him off till he leaves. It means you look for a compromise. phew.