Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Wizard Weatherwax 01-15-06, 04:25 PM	First of all thank you for your time and patience. I am, what you may call, a noob on this Forum, but not a noob in terms of D&D and Fantasy. I have come here, to this Forum, lots of times, in order to read your opinions and remarks. The fact that you guys seem to know so much, always amazes me. And you guys usually have the right answer, if the question is right and interesting. I am going to be honest with you, since I don´t want to start with the wrong foot here. I am not a D&D player, meaning that I don´t play the board or miniatures games. I read the books (Drizzt, Elminster, Cleric Quintet) and play lots of D&D Video Games. One of the games that I play the most is Neverwinter Nights. My question is based on a character from that game. That´s it! I don´t know if I am making a mistake since I am not a Player, but the truth is that I need your opinion. This is my story… I am a lover of Wizards and Dwarves, mainly because of the Discworld books. The powerful Arcane Lore of the Wizards and the dwarven way of seeing things (such as honour, friendship, Elves…) always seemed interesting to me. Alas, in the Second Edition that combo was impossible. I understand why! Dwarves don´t like Magic very much and don´t trust Wizards. So I had to play as a Gnome Illusionist or a Dwarf Fighter. It depended on my mood. But now… After all this years, I am given a chance of actually play a Dwarven Wizard. A Dwarven Wizard! And it is considered normal! Normal? Since when? I was happy and started to make a character right away! I even had a great source for making a quite interesting Dwarven Wizard. I would make a Dwarf Wizard that could melee! A bit of Strength, the right Feats, a good weapon… But a Pure Wizard, nonetheless! So I would try out a Dwarven Wizard that was somewhat good in melee. A Dwarven Wizard that could fight and break a Goblin´s skull! I even found a Deity for my character! Dugmaren Brightmantle (CG): The Gleam in the Eye, the Errant Explorer. Symbol: Open book. Worshipers: Artisans, dwarves, loremasters, runecasters, scholars, tinkers, wizards. Cleric Alignments: CG, CN, NG. Domains: Chaos, Craft, Dwarf, Good, Knowledge, Rune. Favored Weapon: "Sharptack" (short sword). It was all going fine! I had a Raven as a Familiar, a warhammer as my weapon and a little Bio for the other Players to read (It is a Video Game, so small Bios are easier to read). … “When Dlog Ironaxe was young he showed much interest in Magic. With time his curiosity and hunger for more Arcane Knowledge led him to a Church of Dugmaren Brightmantle, where the Wizards accepted him amongst their ranks. After many demanding years of studying Magic he became a Wizard. His final test was to summon his Familiar which, in this case, was a Raven. At last, during the ceremony that would make him officially become a Wizard and a follower of Dugmaren Brightmantle, Ironaxe received his own Spellbook. He now works as an Emissary, sent to sort whatever problems and conflicts that may trouble the Church.” … But then the unthinkable happened! My perfect build, my long time dream… Didn’t feel right! At least to me! I like RP… I really do! But that character didn’t seem… dwarfish! A Wizard? He had a Deity, a purpose… But it didn’t seem right! Some of my friends told me to relax, because my reaction was normal! It was my first time with a Dwarven Wizard! I would get used to the idea! But I didn’t… I was already ready to give up this character, and start a new one… But I couldn’t! Isn’t the purpose of the game to RP a character? To create unique characters? To break the stereotypes and become a Legend? It worked for Drizzt Do´Urden! It worked for Pikel Bouldershoulder, the Dwarven Druid! So, that’s why I am here. That’s why I am bothering you… I need your help! I need you to help me get used to this build, this idea, this combination… But I know that I am not a Player… That since I only play D&D Video Games, my request seems insignificant and pointless… But it just… Matters to me… I like to RP, I like to enjoy my character! And I just can’t get used to this idea, that was a dream of mine! So here I am… Asking you guys for advice and suggestions! Again, thank you for your time. Wizard Weatherwax P.S: Just a question, though… Where is the Search Function? I can’t seem to locate it! Every time that I search this Forum I have to look it all up! Thanks in advance!
redragonx 01-15-06, 07:59 PM	Hey, nothing is wrong with being a dwarf wizard. If you really don't like it, don't be it! But, it is kinda wierd. :D
Harrow Blade 01-15-06, 08:27 PM	I can feel your passion about your topic in the way that you write so let me share with you my views on dwarven wizards. Dwarves on a whole are a stubborn bunch and if you tell them they can't do something then they will do it just to prove they can, even if it takes a hundred years. I mean no one said orcs can't be wizards and no green skinned pig face is going to be better at anything than a dwarf. right? Sure dwarves tend to be distrustful of magic but I thik that stems from the fact there are very few dwarven 'wizards'. Magic however has long been a part of dwarven life, usually clerical magic but there have been Dwarves who weild magic through the creation of Runes. they tend to take a long time to create but can be powerful. You may have read the Forgotten Realms books with the Firbolg Ranger. One of his companions used rune magic (although not a dwarf). When it comes to your dwarf and his magic see it as some exotic tool, but not something alien to your race entirely. When choosing spells I imagine that they would not be flashy or colourful but practical and effective, perhaps tied closely to the earth dwarves are so fond of. Perhaps even a Earth elementalist (speciality mage), this would increase the likelyhood of being accepted by even the most sceptical dwarves. For example, Stone Shape, the spell is both a clerical and wizard spell. It may have been seen before but can shape a tunnel, barricade, Door frame, stairs etc out of stone in seconds where it might take a team of dwarven artisans all day. When it comes to magic and dwarves, don't subscribe to human ideals of magic and it's users, make it dwarven in approach and application. You will start to feel right about it all. As wellas that you are one of the best candidates for making magical weaponry like none other. Hope this helps Harrow Blade
Zasheir 01-16-06, 02:35 AM	I mostly play PnP D&D now, but I've drifted in and out of NWN in my time, and I actually remember your presence on those boards WW. Nice post on wizard builds btw. Anyway, my advice to you is to consider the difference subraces can make in these cases. The shield dwarves of the north are far more accustomed to patriarchal warrior societies and the idea of wizards are somewhat repulsive to their cultural conciousness. But this isn't true of the Gold dwarves of the rift. I'd say go with a gold dwarf wizard. If you read the entry for the great rift in the FRCS, or about the race as a whole in Races of Faerûn, you'll find that their more matriarchal and magic based society is far more open to wizardry, and actually specifically mentions the respect that wizards, runecasters and other spell casters have in the society. I've actually played a gold dwarf wizard specifically in a campaign not too long ago and she was a very satisfying character in the RP'ing sense.
Shaggy_Shaggs 01-16-06, 06:55 AM	I played a dwarf wizard once (hill dwarf, if it matters), and I had the same issue, struggling to make it real when it didn't feel right. What ended up doing the trick for me was to keep my focus on the fact that he was a dwarf first and a wizard second. I thought about things like respect of heritage (and always introduced himself as Khazar, son of Owin, son of Ebekar, son of Taraggor, of the clan Guldanzar), and gave him a military family (his dwarven defender father Owin, his fighter brothers Khazinbalad, Andul, Brator, Baligar, and Zurigar) that, while loyal and supportive, found his choice strange, untraditional and consequently, uncomfortable. I worked in a little bit more awareness of how likely this path was to cause friction (his mother, Hilda, had been a wizard in her 'youthful' eighties, but chose to give it up when she wed Owin, specifically because of the warrior's discomfort with it). I worked more of his heritage into his background and abilities - he'd gone to work at metalworking in his late 30's, and his primary downtime hobby was stonesculpting, I reflected the hard labor in his score layout (suboptimal Dex for a mage, but you should see his Str and Con). I even tied his discovery of wizardry in with his racial tendencies - he first became interested in the craft when he found an old, damaged spellbook hidden in a false bottom of a salvaged crate of raw silver he'd been emptying into a smelter at the forge. His perspective on magic wasn't enthrallment with its mysteries like an elf, nor arrogant powermongering like a human - rather he looked at it as a tool to improve upon his metal and stonecraft. When he got to the surface, Khazar limited the jobs he took on to the sorts of things that appealed to his personality, rather than his class. Running off to the swamp out in the boonies to pick a fight with the undead that'd been appearing was right out, but guarding and assisting a supply caravan to a quarry that had suffered goblin attacks, or signing on as a foreman at the construction site of a new guildhall, were the kinds of jobs he'd go for. It's a shame that game didn't last longer than it did, I've been thinking I may have to try to work him into another game if I can talk a DM into it. If you're curious about how I set this character up mechanically to reflect the RP qualities, here it is. Khazar Guldanzar, Dwarf, LG, Wizard 2 Str 16, Dex 13, Con 18, Int 18, Wis 10, Cha 9 Skill ranks: Appraise 2, Concentration 2, Craft (armorsmithing) 4, Craft (sculpting) 5, Craft (blacksmithing) 4, Knowledge (arcana) 4, Knowledge (architecture & engineering) 1, Spellcraft 4, Spot 1 Feat: Martial Weapon Proficiency (dwarven waraxe) Cantrips Known: All Level 1 Spells Known: Mage Armor, Shield, Sleep, Magic Missile, Grease, Feather Fall, Burning Hands, True Strike, Alarm, Repair Light Damage Spells Typically Prepared: Cantrips: Mage Hand x2, Mending x2. Level 1: Mage Armor, Grease x2 (good for moving big blocks of valuable rare stone without damaging them or the floor) Familiar: Toad ("Mortar") Good luck with your own dwarf wizard.
Wizard Weatherwax 01-16-06, 04:45 PM	Hey, nothing is wrong with being a dwarf wizard. If you really don't like it, don't be it! But, it is kinda wierd. :D Hello, Mr. redragonx! I like the combination! But the truth is that am having a difficult time adjusting to these new rules. But, like you wisely said, if it is troubling me so much, then I should forget it and move over. But the truth is that I want to continue developing this character. I have read that D&D Players should try to create unique and complex characters. What can be more unique than a Dwarven Wizard? Or a Half-Orc Paladin, for that matter… Thank you, Mr. redragonx! I can feel your passion about your topic in the way that you write so let me share with you my views on dwarven wizards. Thank you for those words, Mr. Harrow Blade! Dwarves on a whole are a stubborn bunch and if you tell them they can't do something then they will do it just to prove they can, even if it takes a hundred years. I mean no one said orcs can't be wizards and no green skinned pig face is going to be better at anything than a dwarf. right? Those are indeed charismatic and inspiring words, Mr. Harrow Blade! If a smelly Orc can do it, why shouldn’t a Dwarf do it? Makes sense! Sure dwarves tend to be distrustful of magic but I thik that stems from the fact there are very few dwarven 'wizards'. Magic however has long been a part of dwarven life, usually clerical magic but there have been Dwarves who weild magic through the creation of Runes. they tend to take a long time to create but can be powerful. You may have read the Forgotten Realms books with the Firbolg Ranger. One of his companions used rune magic (although not a dwarf). I know of this. I know that there are lots of Dwarven Clerics and some Dwarven Runecasters and Runesmiths. And I know that Giants usually share some Classes and techniques (stone work mostly) with Dwarves. When it comes to your dwarf and his magic see it as some exotic tool, but not something alien to your race entirely. When choosing spells I imagine that they would not be flashy or colourful but practical and effective, perhaps tied closely to the earth dwarves are so fond of. Perhaps even a Earth elementalist (speciality mage), this would increase the likelyhood of being accepted by even the most sceptical dwarves. I see… Adapting the Wizard Class in the Dwarven Society and Views? Battle Spells, such as Buffs? Transmutation and Evocation Spells? Yes… A Dwarven Wizard should be viewed as different from a Human Wizard or an Elven Wizard. Maybe more eager to go into battle or more stubborn than the run-of-the-mill Wizard. And why not? Do all Wizards have to be elderly and weak? Must all Wizards fear melee or the heat of a battle? Is it a requisite that a Wizard must look like and think like all the other Wizards? I agree with you, my friend! For example, Stone Shape, the spell is both a clerical and wizard spell. It may have been seen before but can shape a tunnel, barricade, Door frame, stairs etc out of stone in seconds where it might take a team of dwarven artisans all day. And the Stoneskin Spell! And the Petrifaction Spell! I see your point! A great way to RP a Dwarven Wizard! When it comes to magic and dwarves, don't subscribe to human ideals of magic and it's users, make it dwarven in approach and application. You will start to feel right about it all. As wellas that you are one of the best candidates for making magical weaponry like none other. Your perspective is quite refreshing and creative! Thank you for sharing it! Hope this helps Harrow Blade It did! Thank you for your time and ideas! I mostly play PnP D&D now, but I've drifted in and out of NWN in my time, and I actually remember your presence on those boards WW. Nice post on wizard builds btw. Oh, my! Thank you, Mr. Zasheir! Hope that I wasn´t too boring, mate! Anyway, my advice to you is to consider the difference subraces can make in these cases. The shield dwarves of the north are far more accustomed to patriarchal warrior societies and the idea of wizards are somewhat repulsive to their cultural conciousness. But this isn't true of the Gold dwarves of the rift. I have thought of that, my friend! But the truth is that I prefer the good old Shield Dwarf! Many of the books that I have read and am eager to read are about Shield Dwarves, and I have yet to have the pleasure of meeting a Gold Dwarf in a book. So, I feel more comfortable and pleased with a Shield Dwarf. There was a time, thought, that I thought to play a Duegar Rogue, and to create a Dwarfish version of Drizzt. The project never became a reality, however… I'd say go with a gold dwarf wizard. If you read the entry for the great rift in the FRCS, or about the race as a whole in Races of Faerûn, you'll find that their more matriarchal and magic based society is far more open to wizardry, and actually specifically mentions the respect that wizards, runecasters and other spell casters have in the society. I have read that much, yes… Especially regarding Runecasters. But my reasons were explained in the above answer. But I want to stress that your idea is most welcome, and the fact that you have referred that there are Dwarven Societies that respect Magic is quite refreshing. It made me feel that my character may not be so out of place, after all. I've actually played a gold dwarf wizard specifically in a campaign not too long ago and she was a very satisfying character in the RP'ing sense. A “she”? Now that is music for my ears! You must have enjoyed that character very much indeed, seeing how it is quite unique. Thank you, Mr. Zasheir! I played a dwarf wizard once (hill dwarf, if it matters), and I had the same issue, struggling to make it real when it didn't feel right. Hello, Mr. Shaggy_Shaggs! I don´t want to seem dumb or anything, but it good to know that I am not the only one to feel a bit strange by playing a Dwarven Wizard. But truth be told, I am feeling more at ease with the idea. Thanks to you guys! I played a dwarf wizard once (hill dwarf, if it matters), and I had the same issue, struggling to make it real when it didn't feel right. What ended up doing the trick for me was to keep my focus on the fact that he was a dwarf first and a wizard second. I thought about things like respect of heritage (and always introduced himself as Khazar, son of Owin, son of Ebekar, son of Taraggor, of the clan Guldanzar), and gave him a military family (his dwarven defender father Owin, his fighter brothers Khazinbalad, Andul, Brator, Baligar, and Zurigar) that, while loyal and supportive, found his choice strange, untraditional and consequently, uncomfortable. My character usually hangs with his cousin a run-of-the-mill Dwarven Fighter. True to his family and Clan, and a follower of the Dwarven Lore. Strangely enough, since they were both such great friends, he respects my character a lot and doesn’t complain about his chosen profession. In fact, even if it troubles him, he won´t say a thing, because he really treasures that friendship. But here is the “but” part… But he really hates Magic and other Wizards. He really does! He complains about Magic, Wizards in general, how they are all mad as a Troll in love… But he never, ever says that to his friend. He even stands up for him, when others say bad things about my character. I worked in a little bit more awareness of how likely this path was to cause friction (his mother, Hilda, had been a wizard in her 'youthful' eighties, but chose to give it up when she wed Owin, specifically because of the warrior's discomfort with it). I worked more of his heritage into his background and abilities - he'd gone to work at metalworking in his late 30's, and his primary downtime hobby was stonesculpting, I reflected the hard labor in his score layout (suboptimal Dex for a mage, but you should see his Str and Con). That is also my idea! My Dwarven Wizard isn´t weak and doesn´t run from a fight! He has trained as a sort of Warrior, in order to help his comrades in arms. But if a powerful foe appears, then it is time to resort to Magic in order to better protect his friends and companions. I even tied his discovery of wizardry in with his racial tendencies - he first became interested in the craft when he found an old, damaged spellbook hidden in a false bottom of a salvaged crate of raw silver he'd been emptying into a smelter at the forge. His perspective on magic wasn't enthrallment with its mysteries like an elf, nor arrogant powermongering like a human - rather he looked at it as a tool to improve upon his metal and stonecraft. Yes, I agree! It is a brilliant idea to adapt the Wizard Class to the Dwarven ways. When he got to the surface, Khazar limited the jobs he took on to the sorts of things that appealed to his personality, rather than his class. Running off to the swamp out in the boonies to pick a fight with the undead that'd been appearing was right out, but guarding and assisting a supply caravan to a quarry that had suffered goblin attacks, or signing on as a foreman at the construction site of a new guildhall, were the kinds of jobs he'd go for. It's a shame that game didn't last longer than it did, I've been thinking I may have to try to work him into another game if I can talk a DM into it. If you're curious about how I set this character up mechanically to reflect the RP qualities, here it is. A quite interesting character, my friend! Thank you for sharing it with such detail and thought! Good luck with your own dwarf wizard. Thank you, my dear friend!
Wizard Weatherwax 01-16-06, 04:49 PM	Well, I want to thank everyone that shared their views and perspectives! I think that I am now ready to start a new adventure with my new character, a Dwarven Wizard! If anyone else wants to share their view on the subject at hand, please do! It is always great to hear you guys out! And to learn something new everyday! Cheers, mates!
Minister_for_Moral_Truth 01-18-06, 12:01 PM	My immediate thought would be to have a dwarf wizard specialising in either magic centering around the plane of earth or arounddivination. In the first instance, you have a dwarven scholar, learned in the ways of planar interaction and the nature of the link between dwarf and stone. Augment summoning and knowlege (the planes) would feature heavily. In the other case, a master of the lines of fate and the path of history. The dwarves have great respect for the past, and for their ancestors, and learning more about these in order to better predict the future and help your fellows would be a good dwarvish endeavour. Knowlege (history) and (nobility and royalty) would be good choices, and the Loremaster would be a nice choice too. A magical weaponsmith would work too, but I've always seen clerics as suiting the role better amongst the dwarves. In any case, you don't have to worry about having lots of encumberance slowing you down, so be sure to carry about as much arcane junk as possible. A crossbow is also appropriate. A rather good article on dwarves, by the way: http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/columns/archetypology18oct01.html Touches on the subject of wizardry.
richardharrison 01-19-06, 08:32 PM	I DM a FR campaign including a Dwarven Wizard. We decided that dwarves view wizards as a necessary evil. A child showing wizard potential is taken away from the family and raised separately by the clan's wizards. They tend to be extremely serious and intense and spend most of their time studying or being called out to fight in battles (the more martially inclined). My campaign revolves around the rediscovery of lost magic so the PC was sent out as a journeyman to learn all he could about other races' magic. So far he's played the character as a bit of an outcast and a wanderer - feeling more at home among other races than his own and having a voracious curiosity for lore (he's ended up as a Loremaster, unsurprisingly).
Wizard Weatherwax 01-20-06, 03:23 PM	My immediate thought would be to have a dwarf wizard specialising in either magic centering around the plane of earth or arounddivination. Hello, Mr. Minister_for_Moral_Truth! First of all, thank you for sharing your ideas and perspectives! Again, the idea of adapting the Class to the Race is brilliant! A Dwarven Wizard should be different from a Halfling Wizard or a Half-Orc Wizard. So having a Dwarven Wizard with an Axe/ Hammer is, for example, a nice touch. Even in terms of Spells… There are Spells that are linked to Stone and Fire, that in my opinion, seem a nice a choice for a Dwarf Wizard. In the first instance, you have a dwarven scholar, learned in the ways of planar interaction and the nature of the link between dwarf and stone. Augment summoning and knowlege (the planes) would feature heavily. A nice idea! Again, adapting the Wizard Class to the Dwarven Race is brilliant! In the other case, a master of the lines of fate and the path of history. The dwarves have great respect for the past, and for their ancestors, and learning more about these in order to better predict the future and help your fellows would be a good dwarvish endeavour. Knowlege (history) and (nobility and royalty) would be good choices, and the Loremaster would be a nice choice too. Indeed… A sort of “Keeper of Dwarven Knowledge”? He could even be a sort of Wiseman that the traditional Dwarves ask for advices and suggestions. A magical weaponsmith would work too, but I've always seen clerics as suiting the role better amongst the dwarves. But it is still a great idea! Just imagine... Dwarven Wizards and Dwarven Clerics working together, in order to create powerful weapons and armors. Aye! The Dwarves would be unstoppable in terms of Army and Commerce. In any case, you don't have to worry about having lots of encumberance slowing you down, so be sure to carry about as much arcane junk as possible. A crossbow is also appropriate. Again, thank you for the ideas! A rather good article on dwarves, by the way: http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/columns/archetypology18oct01.html Touches on the subject of wizardry. The link didn´t work. But I found the site on the Google. http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/columns/archetypology18oct01.html Thank you! It was a very useful and interesting site, with tons of cool ideas and information! I DM a FR campaign including a Dwarven Wizard. We decided that dwarves view wizards as a necessary evil. Hello, Mr. richardharrison! Straight to the point, I see! Since I asked you guys about Dwarven Wizards, I am more at ease with the concept! Although the majority of Dwarves distrust Magic, I can believe that some would be curious about it. Look at Pikel Bouldershoulder! He is a Dwarven Druid! A Druid!!! And if he was accepted as a fellow Dwarf, I don´t see any reasons why shouldn´t a Dwarven Wizard be also accepted. A child showing wizard potential is taken away from the family and raised separately by the clan's wizards. They tend to be extremely serious and intense and spend most of their time studying or being called out to fight in battles (the more martially inclined). I like that idea! A bit like a Jedi, no? Sorry for bringing Star Wars to this topic, but I just want to make a point! When someone in touch and skilled in the ways of the Force was discovered, he was taken to the Jedi Academy. And if he proved worthy, he would train to become a Jedi. So we could view Dwarven Wizards as a bit of “special” amongst their fellow Dwarves. They would train separately and acquire different techniques and knowledge. My campaign revolves around the rediscovery of lost magic so the PC was sent out as a journeyman to learn all he could about other races' magic. Ah! Meaning that he looking for ancient knowledge that will bring more honour and power to his clan! So the Dwarven Wizard shouldn’t be viewed only as a Dwarf that couldn’t fit in the Dwarven Society. He could be a Sage, a Consulter, a Smith, a Supporter in Battle (Battle Mage) and even a sort of Agent/ Emissary for the Clan. So far he's played the character as a bit of an outcast and a wanderer - feeling more at home among other races than his own and having a voracious curiosity for lore (he's ended up as a Loremaster, unsurprisingly). I can see now that the Dwarven Wizard has many ways to be RP. Thank you for the ideas!
cerberuspuppy 01-20-06, 06:26 PM	Dwarf Wizards are cool, and totally appropriate. In any game I run, no race is around that long without accumulating at least some arcane knowledge. The most basic ways to do a Dwarf Wizard and have it make sense are Item Creation and an Earth or "builder" based theme. Item creation makes sense to me as something a Dwarf would do. Just write him up as a smith who enchants his own items. Maybe he's out to make some money, or a name for himself, or maybe he just wants to make orc bane axes for the clan. I realize that clerics can do item creation too, but wizards can do things clerics can't and they also get bonus feats that can be used for item creation. Only a wizard can get Craft Arms & Armor at 5th level. The other idea is a Dwarf who is studying the arcane mysteries of earth and stone. Seems natural enough to me, and useful to his clan if he can fortify defenses or blast all the goblins in half the time it would take the crossbowmen to do it.