Post/Author/DateTime	Post
richardharrison 12-08-05, 09:45 PM	I'm normally pretty flush with ideas for characters but this one has got me stumped. I'm playing a Dwarf for the first time and also a Sorcerer for the first time. I want to make him fairly Charismatic (obviously) so he'll have 16 Charisma to start. As a result, I wanted to make him a fairly likeable type. At 2nd level, he'll be taking a level of Fighter for heavy armor proficiency so that he can become a Runesmith at around 6th level and cast spells in full armor. So: - he's likeable - I decided to stay away from dragon blood as the origin of his powers, preferring something earth-related as he's taking the Dwarf substitution level at 1st, giving him a bond with the earth instead of a familiar. Other than that, I have no idea what to do with him. He'l be travelling with a Barbarian and a Rogue, both Dwarves (and potentially from the same place) and he's a stonemason by trade. Anybody got any thoughts? Richard
WarDragon 12-09-05, 03:37 AM	Since you will almost certainly have the highest Charisma in the group, you'll be the party "face," unless the Rogue devotes a lot of his skill points to being so. Plan accordingly. Also, decide exactly where your character believes his powers come from; simply a connection with the power of the Earth, bargaining with spirits, a gift from Moradin? Whatever it is, play it to the hilt.
SuperTKO 12-09-05, 03:45 AM	Also, make sure to take a good look at the spells. 1st level spells may not be much, but make sure you pick the best ones you can think for at the time, because unlike Wizard, you can't change them until around level 5. Take something that will benifit yourself for the road ahead, especially if you don't plan on taking sorcerer all the way. I've always had it in my head that Dwarven Sorcerers tend to go with the spells that enhance Defense. Such as Shield, Mage Armor are good. If your wanting to be more Melee focus, definately take True Strike and the Classic Magic Missle.
Setherial 12-09-05, 05:55 AM	There is a first level feat in the book AEG feats (Alderac Entertainment Group) that allows you to use Con instead of Charisma to cast your spells. It's ideal for dwarven sorcerers. Ofcourse it's not a WOTC book and it's up to your DM to allow this. taking spells to enhance defense doesn't sound very efficient for a sorcerer, more something for a divine caster. A sorcerer is good at blowing things up, with a small arsenal of offensive spells. An illusionist sorcerer works as well since you can improvise a lot and you have access to all your spells. You could focus on summoning and have low power creatures aid the other in the group, it's great for bonusses. A good starting spell is sleep, it is very effective at low level.
Terjonwh 12-12-05, 05:14 PM	Also see if your DM will allow subraces. You may be able to avoid a hit to your CHA that way.
richardharrison 12-12-05, 05:58 PM	Also see if your DM will allow subraces. You may be able to avoid a hit to your CHA that way. Hmm...it's doubtful, this campaign is a direct follow-on from the current one and he restricted us to PHB only for this one. Which Dwarven subraces forego the Charisma hit?
richardharrison 01-16-06, 09:11 PM	Decided to go as follows: S1 Combat Casting (racial sub) F1 Exotic Shield Proficiency Shield Gauntlet (or Parrying Shield if DM allows me to swap Tower Shield for Shield Gauntlet) S2 Scribe Scroll S3 +1 WIS S4 RS1 Dwarven Armor Proficiency RS2 RS3 +1 CHA RS4 Craft Magic Arms & Armor RS5 S5 (racial sub) S6 Shielded Casting +1CHA S7 S8 S9 Heavy Armor Optimization (racial sub) Thinking that the racial subs at 5th and 9th might not be worth wasting all those levels on Sorcerer, especially considering I won't even have a familiar to get increased abilities from. Any other suggestions for Prestige Classes or maybe spell choices? As you can see, I'm concentrating on the armor, taking Dwarven Mountain Plate as soon as I can afford it.
Tasmar 01-16-06, 10:49 PM	Decided to go as follows: S1 Combat Casting (racial sub) F1 Exotic Shield Proficiency Shield Gauntlet (or Parrying Shield if DM allows me to swap Tower Shield for Shield Gauntlet) S2 Scribe Scroll S3 +1 WIS S4 RS1 Dwarven Armor Proficiency RS2 RS3 +1 CHA RS4 Craft Magic Arms & Armor RS5 S5 (racial sub) S6 Shielded Casting +1CHA S7 S8 S9 Heavy Armor Optimization (racial sub) Thinking that the racial subs at 5th and 9th might not be worth wasting all those levels on Sorcerer, especially considering I won't even have a familiar to get increased abilities from. Any other suggestions for Prestige Classes or maybe spell choices? As you can see, I'm concentrating on the armor, taking Dwarven Mountain Plate as soon as I can afford it. Aren't you suppose to be asking those type of questions on other boards such as the optimization board for example or if they are too power hungry for you the what's a player to do board would be helpful. Shouldn't you be asking questions like what kind of personality should I play him as. I'm going to pretend you asked the second kind and answer that way. I'm really not trying to bash or anything like that I just think you're using this board in the wrong direction. When I think of Dwarven Sorcerer I ususally think of a Dwarven Master craftsman that uses his arcane spells to help his cause of that. Maybe he's a grand architect and so much of an artist that his last structure he built angered the local church and now has to reinstate his name in a crusade for Moradin. The only problem is that there aren't many spells especially first level spell that would help him with building. Maybe mage hand to bring the hammer over to you with having to walk or so you can hold a building while doing it. Featherfall: to prevent fatal falls from scafelding. Arcane mark: to mark a project as your own. Which Dwarven subraces forego the Charisma hit? Shield (or was it Gold) is in the DMG there's very small change between core and this subrace, but the foregoing the CHA hit is one. Also: Dream Dwarf from Races of Stone. Lots of unique ablities one with the earth, but loses the bonus to craft that normal dwarves get.
richardharrison 01-16-06, 11:41 PM	Aren't you suppose to be asking those type of questions on other boards such as the optimization board for example or if they are too power hungry for you the what's a player to do board would be helpful. Sorry, realised after I posted it which board I was on - that post was for the opt. board, I meant to talk about the personality stuff here. I had a mess about with the tables in the old Hero Builder's Guidebook and ended up with a mish-mash that I cobbled into a backstory. I threw this bit in as a hook for the DM, if he wants it: "One of Dolon’s earliest memories is of a long journey as a child, possibly lasting several months. However, his parents claim no such journey ever took place and his three elder siblings confirm this story so Dolon has mostly dismissed this as a childhood fancy. However, he frequently dreams of a place he has never visited." and put this in because I liked the idea of a mentor figure: "His great-grandfather (just known as The Clansman) is a Sorcerer of some massive power and repute and he showed Dolon the ways to fight monsters and battle against the influence of black magic. He also assisted Dolon in crafting a magical bond to the earth, allowing him to draw on its power for combat and awareness." I was having trouble coming up with a personality but I like your craftsman idea - he's going to be taking maximum possible ranks in Craft (Stonemason) as it's required for Runesmith and also because I like the idea of him being, in essence, a builder and creator of things. I like Mage Hand for tools and the like, especially as I can cast them a ton of times a day. I'm also going with the notion that Sorcerers are a bit of a stigma for a Dwarven family and so he's doing his best to promote a good, stable name for his family. Unfortunately, he's also Chaotic so he's prone to doing a bit too much adventuring on the side. Thanks, I think I'm getting somewhere!
Tasmar 01-17-06, 04:02 PM	Since you are going Runesmith, do you have any idea when you are taking that level of fighter because if take it at first then you can go with you trained in the dwarven army, but soon after your latten sorcerer powers appeared. Doesn't quite work as much if you start at first level, but it'll help the backstory / help survivalability for a couple levels.
WarDragon 01-17-06, 04:11 PM	Regarding PrCs; since you're already taking the Fighter level, and you can cast freely in armor, you've got a perfect lead-in for Eldritch Knight. Or, if you want to play up the craftsman aspect, see if the DM will let you take Maester (a usually gnome-exclusive item-creation PrC in Complete Adventurer).
richardharrison 01-17-06, 05:15 PM	Since you are going Runesmith, do you have any idea when you are taking that level of fighter because if take it at first then you can go with you trained in the dwarven army, but soon after your latten sorcerer powers appeared. Doesn't quite work as much if you start at first level, but it'll help the backstory / help survivalability for a couple levels. I contemplated taking it at first both for background purposes and also the max on the hit points but I think I'll start Sorcerer as I want that to be the focus of the character and suddenly using a waraxe at second level won't be as jarring as suddenly being able to cast spells. I'm still having him be militia-trained, mostly using a crossbow and club.
richardharrison 01-17-06, 05:19 PM	Regarding PrCs; since you're already taking the Fighter level, and you can cast freely in armor, you've got a perfect lead-in for Eldritch Knight. Or, if you want to play up the craftsman aspect, see if the DM will let you take Maester (a usually gnome-exclusive item-creation PrC in Complete Adventurer). I think I might go with the Eldritch Knight suggestion, keeps up with the warrior mage aspect I'm going for without sacrificing much in the way of spell power. And I could possibly make up on some of that loss by taking the Practiced Spellcaster feat. Cheers!
Tasmar 01-17-06, 05:45 PM	I contemplated taking it at first both for background purposes and also the max on the hit points but I think I'll start Sorcerer as I want that to be the focus of the character and suddenly using a waraxe at second level won't be as jarring as suddenly being able to cast spells. I'm still having him be militia-trained, mostly using a crossbow and club. so are you starting at first level? In my mind I see picking up wizard spells mid-campaign weird, but sorcerer spells are innate in nature and can't be controlled when they come. I see fighter not something easy to pick up mid-campaign without some kind of back story. Going from being unable to swing an ax, but can cast spells to swinging that axe and being able to cast the spells less realistic than swinging that ax in the militia and suddenly spells are popping out of your fingers without your knowledge of being cable of that.
richardharrison 01-17-06, 06:14 PM	so are you starting at first level? Going from being unable to swing an ax, but can cast spells to swinging that axe and being able to cast the spells less realistic than swinging that ax in the militia and suddenly spells are popping out of your fingers without your knowledge of being cable of that. Sorry, should have said that first, we'll be starting at first. If I started as a Fighter, it would mean I'd have to make more of my Sorcerer abilities suddenly kicking in at 2nd whereas if I build the Sorcerer into my background and say he was with the militia but never actually bother to use my axe in combat for the first adventure, it doesn't seem as odd. I think I'll rely on the crossbow for level 1 and then shift to the waraxe at level 2 - the reason he never used the waraxe was simply because he hadn't bought himself one yet, having spent all his money on the crossbow/spell components/etc.
Tasmar 01-17-06, 06:32 PM	that'll work...and if want to pretend that you could use the ax the whole time that would work. I guess. Its your character. I would try to develop your spells in a particular theme because it'll make your character more real and less of a compiled jumble of math and words.
richardharrison 01-17-06, 08:33 PM	I would try to develop your spells in a particular theme because it'll make your character more real and less of a compiled jumble of math and words. Yeah, that's the next thing to do. I've never played a Sorcerer before so I could afford to go nuts as a Wizard choosing all kinds of weird and useless spells. I'd like to take a fair amount of combat spells as I see him as a bit of a soldier and, as he's going to be encased in a fair amount of armour eventually, I thought I'd use a bunch of touch spells. So this pile of metal ambles up and touches you with a zap, chill, explosion, whatever. I always think Sorcerers are so much better with a theme so I might think about going with many touch range spells and concentrating the magic in his hands. Works with the 'craftsman' concept, being 'hands-on', I think.
Tasmar 01-18-06, 10:33 AM	I pulled out my RoS today and I think your character contains a flaw that can only be worked around by a houserule. The Rune Magic feature of the Runesmith lets you prepare spells on an object rather than your mind which since you are a sorcerer you don't prepare spells at all unless you take the arcane preparation feat which would kill your character if you had to prepare all your sorcerer spells through that feat. So this means by RAW you can't cast your spells in heavy armor. BUT since this the character development board I believe you could easily talk to your DM around this by for example you sketch the shape of a run on a solid object as part of you spell requiring little movement so still no ASF. Or you could have tons of runes sketched all over all the metal/stone apperal you have you each covering a different spell known and therefore count as having no ASF. Sorry to disappoint, but the best things in life are not easy to come by so you'll have to work this one out with your DM.
richardharrison 01-18-06, 11:20 AM	I pulled out my RoS today and I think your character contains a flaw that can only be worked around by a houserule. The Rune Magic feature of the Runesmith lets you prepare spells on an object rather than your mind which since you are a sorcerer you don't prepare spells at all Thanks for spotting that - I had noticed that it said that but wasn't 100% sure it meant I was restricted to wizard-style preparing. What it says is that you "prepare spells as normal" which, for a Sorcerer is not at all. I'll check with my DM before we start out but I was under the impression I could just make a bunch of runes of each spell and I could still spontaneously cast.
WarDragon 01-18-06, 12:14 PM	Eldritch Knight only costs one caster level, and Runesmith (if you take more than 3 levels) costs another, then one more for Fighter... since you're already losing 9th level spells as a Sorc, and taking Practiced Spellcaster, might as well toss another Fighter level in there.
richardharrison 01-18-06, 12:37 PM	Eldritch Knight only costs one caster level, and Runesmith (if you take more than 3 levels) costs another, then one more for Fighter... since you're already losing 9th level spells as a Sorc, and taking Practiced Spellcaster, might as well toss another Fighter level in there. Runesmith costs a caster level? I thought it was full progression? I'll have to trek over to my friend's place today and check that out.
Tasmar 01-18-06, 03:31 PM	Runesmith costs a caster level? I thought it was full progression? I'll have to trek over to my friend's place today and check that out. no, WarDragon is wrong on this count. Runesmith is full caster class. I would only go Eldritch Knight if you entend to enter melee, but if you plan on sitting in the back and in heavy armor and cast spells I would forgo EK and go sorcerer for more sub levels, both of the remaining ones are juicy in power and going with the Spells-Earth-Moradin-Whatever connection to fill out your character more. It all depends on your dwarf's out look on life. Slay them with my spells or let my ax be my word(and use spells for utility/stuff an ax could never do).
richardharrison 01-18-06, 04:00 PM	no, WarDragon is wrong on this count. Runesmith is full caster class. I would only go Eldritch Knight if you entend to enter melee, but if you plan on sitting in the back and in heavy armor and cast spells I would forgo EK and go sorcerer for more sub levels, both of the remaining ones are juicy in power and going with the Spells-Earth-Moradin-Whatever connection to fill out your character more. It all depends on your dwarf's out look on life. Slay them with my spells or let my ax be my word(and use spells for utility/stuff an ax could never do). I think I might go fairly melee as we're a three-man party with a Barbarian and a Rogue so I'll probably be needed on the front line. I figure that my HP and BAB won't be that great but I'll probably be OK AC wise so I can stand toe-to-toe with the bad guys firing off touch spells and True Strikes.
Tasmar 01-18-06, 10:02 PM	I think I might go fairly melee as we're a three-man party with a Barbarian and a Rogue so I'll probably be needed on the front line. I figure that my HP and BAB won't be that great but I'll probably be OK AC wise so I can stand toe-to-toe with the bad guys firing off touch spells and True Strikes. Ok then Eldritch Knight might just be the thing for you. One tatic you should think about is trying to provide your buddies a flanking partner. It'll really help out the rogue and the Barbarian will out damage you if you try melee range and he can benifit from flanking too. One thing you'll be worrying a lot about especially since you the sorcerer will be on the front line is healing. Convince your rogue to take lots of UMD which after a while will be helpful for wands of CLW. Besides all that tatic stuff...What do you got so far for this dwarf's backstory. Do you even have a name yet?
richardharrison 01-19-06, 11:04 AM	Besides all that tatic stuff...What do you got so far for this dwarf's backstory. Do you even have a name yet? Dolon of Azgak Delve. Used the tables in Races of Stone. It means Sword Raider of Rock Homeland.
Tasmar 01-19-06, 07:23 PM	Ok you've got a name. Do you have a past or are you going to use the I washed on a beach and don't remember where I'm from cliche?
richardharrison 01-19-06, 08:12 PM	Ok you've got a name. Do you have a past or are you going to use the I washed on a beach and don't remember where I'm from cliche? Here it is as I've jotted it down so far: Raised in Azgak Delve (2000 people, mine, forge - fairly large community) in the rugged Highlands. Dolon’s branch of Clan Azgak is a moderately well-off lower class family (labourers, servants, etc). Early life was fairly violent with an ongoing danger of attack, and Dolon’s family have always been highly focussed on combat training. His family have a reputation as being untrustworthy or strange mostly due to the high number of Ravers they have in the family (partially insane burned-out Sorcerers). For generations, some of his family have fought against this by being hard workers, being highly active in the Citadel militia and taking care of the mentally ill as best they could. Other members of the family have done their best to live up to the contempt. Historically, the family worships Mya. However, this has lapsed in more recent centuries and religious commitments aren’t consistently observed. Politically, the family has no specific political stance. One of Dolon’s earliest memories is of a long journey as a child, possibly lasting several months. However, his parents claim no such journey ever took place and his three elder siblings confirm this story so Dolon has mostly dismissed this as a childhood fancy. However, he frequently dreams of a place he has never visited. In his early years, Dolon showed an aptitude for book learning, learning how to read and write from, unusually, a captured goblin slave who taught him stories of Dwarven warrior-heroes. In his “teenage” years, an ongoing war broke out with a nearby Duergar clan. Dolon participated in his community’s defence and, during one such encounter, his powers activated explosively. After the incident that activated his powers, Dolon was removed from ordinary schooling and trained by his great-grandfather in the use of his sorcery with the occasional lesson by one or the other of his parents in the arts of combat. His great-grandfather (just known as The Clansman) is a Sorcerer of some massive power and repute and he showed Dolon the ways to fight monsters and battle against the influence of black magic. He also assisted Dolon in crafting a magical bond to the earth, allowing him to draw on its power for combat and awareness. Despite his odd abilities, Dolon was always a popular teenager and maintained many pleasant relationships. He was tremendously successful with the young ladies, many of whom found it risqué to associate with a sorcerer. This made him unpopular with some of the male dwarves as he stole more than a few hearts. As he came of age, Dolon’s parents thought it appropriate he learn a trade so as to fit in with the community and he apprenticed with his father, a stonemason which is how Dolon usually presents himself when among people who aren’t fond of arcane magic. When Dolon passed through the shock of coming into his sorcerous powers at a young age and maintained his sanity, his parents were both dismayed at another spell-touched in the family and yet relieved that he had come through essentially unharmed. Dolon hopes that his actions will bring more respect to his family’s name.
Tasmar 01-19-06, 10:08 PM	sounds like a pretty typical sorcerer background story with the twist of being a dwarf and the long walk thing. Please don't take that the wrong way. Its pretty good. A few things that'll expand the character 1)His family has a history of sorcerers. His grandfather teaches him to harness the natural dwarven contection with the Earth to strengthen and control his sorcerer powers, but where did the powers orginally come from, it seems there has to be some kind of powerful magical creature somewhere way up the bloodline. 2)I like the long walk thing. It could be a reoccuring thing through out your adventures and really develop the character. Have you decided if that trip was real and if so what was it and if not why is he having those dreams?
richardharrison 01-20-06, 04:03 AM	sounds like a pretty typical sorcerer background story with the twist of being a dwarf and the long walk thing. Please don't take that the wrong way. Its pretty good. A few things that'll expand the character 1)His family has a history of sorcerers. His grandfather teaches him to harness the natural dwarven contection with the Earth to strengthen and control his sorcerer powers, but where did the powers orginally come from, it seems there has to be some kind of powerful magical creature somewhere way up the bloodline. 2)I like the long walk thing. It could be a reoccuring thing through out your adventures and really develop the character. Have you decided if that trip was real and if so what was it and if not why is he having those dreams? No insult taken, I wouldn't be on this board if I had all the answers - I just had the beginning. 1) Good point, I'll definitely look into that. My DM has a Dragon magazine with bloodline information for Earth creatures. It costs a feat to get the extra abilities but I'll read over it and see if it fits the character. 2) That was a bit of a random throwaway thing I threw in. I was considering leaving it for my DM, to see if he wants to tie it to the campaign. But I could see myself adding to that as time goes by. Maybe I get vague hints of the place and I start looking for it?
Tasmar 01-20-06, 04:32 PM	No insult taken, I wouldn't be on this board if I had all the answers - I just had the beginning. 1) Good point, I'll definitely look into that. My DM has a Dragon magazine with bloodline information for Earth creatures. It costs a feat to get the extra abilities but I'll read over it and see if it fits the character. I wouldn't bother with a bloodline feat but a story of how the sorcerer blood started in the family EX: said Magical creature fell in love with said ancient dwarven ancestor and said sorcerer bloodline was born. 2) That was a bit of a random throwaway thing I threw in. I was considering leaving it for my DM, to see if he wants to tie it to the campaign. But I could see myself adding to that as time goes by. Maybe I get vague hints of the place and I start looking for it? I think you should keep it and develop it. I like it. It might be something that you'll have to work closely with your DM to fit it into your campaign. Maybe it could be the reason your character isn't going insane for instance. Every DM I've met would be happy for a player to help give ideas for adventures.
richardharrison 01-22-06, 07:55 PM	I wouldn't bother with a bloodline feat but a story of how the sorcerer blood started in the family EX: said Magical creature fell in love with said ancient dwarven ancestor and said sorcerer bloodline was born. Yeah, I'll dig through that magazine, check if it's applicable. Whatever the creature is, I've established that a lot of dwarven sorcerers burn out and go crazy so it'd have to be something that didn't care or didn't understand this. Maybe whatever it is can't breed normally and this is it's (or their) only way of breeding? Maybe the ones that get left behind are the unsuccessful offspring, the ones that work out okay (similar to the magical creature parent) get taken away? More stuff to think on.