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| ManTimeForgot03-26-06, 08:13 AM | Exalted Warriors should be respectful and polite to those who are deserved of such. Exalted Warriors should not seek to upset the social order unless said order is based upon a violation of the dignity or rights of those governed. Exalted Warriors should seek out and bring to justice those who are deserved of such. Exalted Warriors should seek out the innocent and the victimized and ensure their protection and redress of wrongs. Exalted Warriors must be Dedicated without being obsessed, Vigilant without being invasive, Compassionate without being merciful to those who would likely perform evil if given the chance, Love without becoming blinded by desire, and unwilling to use more harm than necessary to deal with any situation. Exalted Warriors should avoid keeping company of those who are not trustworthy and wholesome in the eyes of the Good. Exalted Warriors should seek to reform those who have strayed from the path of righteousness. Enslavement and Tyranny are wrong; forcing people to follow the principles of Good does not endear them to the cause. Conspiring with, befriending, or aiding in the actions of those with evil motives is wrong. Actions performed while under duress or magical manipulation which would have been evil had one been fully cognizant or in control of ones activities necessitate atonement within 7 days time or the Exalted Warrior will lose access to their supernatural and spell-like abilities until they do atone. Duress for the purposes of Exalted Conduct is any state in which coercion or lack of time did not allow for or made extremely remote the possibility of a more wholesome/pure course of action. The Exalted Warrior must have carried out the act with deep reprehension and a desire to avoid having to cause whatever suffering was caused as a result of the action taken under duress. Exalted Warriors are not to engage in behavior which reflects poorly upon the cause of Good (after all they are the champions of the cause of Good in the world), which includes but is not limited to: use of torture, poisons, diseases, cheating, habitual lying, slander, libel, or any act which would cause a person to feel neglected or taken advantage of. An Exalted Warrior who violates the latter tenet does not lose the Exalted Status but loses the ability to use the supernatural and spell-like abilities of the Exalted Warrior for 1 day or until she atones for her misdeeds (the Exalted Warrior should atone anyway, but the effects do wear off after a day). Exalted Warriors are charged with the highest calling by Good. The goal of every Exalted Warrior is to stave off the effects of Evil on the world, and to do so at every step of life. While the Exalted Warrior should never pass up the opportunity to do minor acts of good, the true purpose of the Exalted Warrior is to combat the many forms of evil which are beyond the ability of normal people to fend off (fiends, liches, etc), thus the Exalted Warrior should not spend their entire life performing minor acts of kindness in a village. A character possessing Exalted Status who performs an evil act is immediately stripped of Exalted Status. In order to regain Exalted Status a character must atone, whereupon she is issued a quest to cleanse herself and this world of evil. If the character completes the quest they regain Exalted Status and the use of Exalted Warrior abilities (The DM is free to determine that some actions are simply too heinous for the Good to allow a character's return to Exalted Status. I.E. “A character who in a fit of rage burns a village to the ground with helpless people trapped inside it” is probably not worthy to return to Exalted Status ever). A character who loses Exalted Status loses access to all Supernatural and Spell-like Exalted Warrior powers and abilities. (For the purposes of the Exalted Status an evil act is any act that results in the Exalted Warrior's alignment shifting towards evil). (Note: The Exalted Warrior is my current idea for a replacement for the paladin: which can be found on the class boards and on the character optimization boards currently) So what do you all think? Too much? Not explicit enough? MTF |
| aleshandre03-26-06, 08:55 AM | It goes into too much detail, while simultaneously clouding the issues somewhat. I'm going to kindof break it down and make it bullet pointed to give it a more clear format and rephrase some to make it sound more appropriate (in my oppinion) to a holy warrior. Exalted Warriors should be respectful and polite to all people until they prove that they do not deserve such. Exalted Warriors should not seek to upset the social order unless said order is based upon a violation of the dignity or rights of those governed. Exalted Warriors should seek out and bring to justice those who have violated just laws. Exalted Warriors should seek out the innocent and the victimized and ensure their protection and redress of wrongs. Exalted Warriors must be Dedicated without being obsessed, Vigilant without being invasive. Exalted Warriors should avoid associating with those who act contrary to their moral standards and who teach things contrary to their beliefs. Exalted Warriors should seek to redeem those who have strayed from the path of righteousness. Love, Compassion and Mercy should be tools to bring redemtion to those who have fallen, but can be redeemed. Enslavement and Tyranny are wrong. Conspiring with or aiding those with evil motives is wrong. Evil actions performed while under duress necessitate atonement or the Exalted Warrior loses their supernatural and spell-like abilities until she do atone. Exalted Warriors are not to engage in behavior which reflects poorly upon the warrior, her faith and her fellows. An Exalted Warrior who violates the latter tenet does not lose the Exalted Status but loses the ability to use the supernatural and spell-like abilities of the Exalted Warrior until she atones for her misdeeds. Exalted Warriors are charged with the highest calling. The goal of every Exalted Warrior is to stave off the effects of Evil on the world, and to do so at every step of life. While the Exalted Warrior should never pass up the opportunity to do minor acts of good, the true purpose of the Exalted Warrior is to combat the many forms of evil, which are beyond the ability of normal people, thus the Exalted Warrior should not spend their entire life performing minor acts of kindness in a village. A character possessing Exalted Status who performs an evil act is immediately stripped of Exalted Status. In order to regain Exalted Status a character must atone, whereupon she is issued a quest to cleanse herself and this world of evil. If the character completes the quest they regain Exalted Status and the use of Exalted Warrior abilities (The DM is free to determine that some actions are simply too heinous to allow a character's return to Exalted Status. I.E. “A character who in a fit of rage burns a village to the ground with helpless people trapped inside it” is probably not worthy to return to Exalted Status ever). A character who loses Exalted Status loses access to all Supernatural and Spell-like Exalted Warrior powers and abilities. (For the purposes of the Exalted Status an evil act is any act that results in the Exalted Warrior's alignment shifting towards evil). In my oppinion, spells that force a person to act contrary to alignment remove the target's personal responsibility for the act, if they were unable to resist the effect. On the other hand, a spell that only influences them to act contrary to alignment does require atonement. |
| Need_A_Life03-26-06, 03:19 PM | Exalted Warriors are not to engage in behavior which reflects poorly upon the warrior, her faith and her fellows. There goes the beer, the music, the jokes, the quirky personality and a lot of other things. Seriously, if this violates their code of conduct, I wouldn't want to play a paladin EVER. If you meant that this is the stricter, more expanded version of 'cannot use poison or other dishonorable means' then good, just try to write that inthere somewhere. |
| aleshandre03-26-06, 05:16 PM | Exactly what it means for something to reflect poorly is between the character and his/her deity and if the character is a member of a holy order of some kind, then that order can set additional strictures. In general, anything taken to excess reflects poorly on a paladin, including zealously attacking any sentient being that is evily aligned. In other words, if your paladin drinks the common intoxicants, because such things are not restricted by his personal code, then fine. If on the other hand, he drinks to excess and is often found drunk off his rear end, then that reflects poorly, even if his code does not prohibit it. |
| JulesCARV03-26-06, 11:39 PM | I came up with something a bit like the Vampire "Humanity/Path" system, except that ratings are from 0-3, rather than 0-10, and a person is considered to be on all paths simultaneously (although she may have high ratings in some and low ratings in others. I called it a system of "Obligation Ratings." My original post (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=601148) on the Mature Boards didn't get much response, but here's a copy, below the dashes: --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The basic idea here is to look at various issues that are thought to have moral aspects, and then find degrees of devotion to moral probity on that issue. I don't want this to really have a game mechanics effect, or at least not until I think about this more, but I'm just wondering if it would be useful as a guideline. In all cases, an obligation rating of 0 represents no obligations. A high rating in these obligation ratings is indicative of a good character. A character with mostly 3s might be exalted. A character with mostly 2s is probably good. Most neutral people have a rating in about 1. However, this is variable, and some neutrals might have a mix of 2s and 0s, for instance. Although these obligation ratings generally follow the pattern of higher ratings indicating good, there could also be obligation ratings in which higher ratings indicate chaos, evil, or law. Pursuit of Retreating Enemies: 1. Using lethal force on enemies as they retreat is acceptable, but if they take the initiative to surrender, let them surrender alive. 2. Take the initiative to offer fleeing foes the oppurtunity to surrender, not attacking them as they flee until they either answer negatively or not at all after a reasonable timeframe (say, one round); once you have made sure that they are fleeing in spite of the clearly stated oppurtunity to surrender, use of lethal force is acceptable. 3. Do not use lethal force on fleeing forces, unless they resist violently (as opposed to just trying to get away). Use of nonlethal force to slow them and capture them alive, such as tanglefoot bags, rays of fatigue, saps, bolas, nets, and whips, is still acceptable. Treatment of Prisoners: 1. Provide prisoners with adequate food and shelter so long as you are also able to adequately supply your own forces. Do not kill them without cause. 2. Do not use torture on prisoners when interrogating them. Do not use them as hostages, threatening to execute them if enemy forces that are still at large do not cooperate. Do not use them as living shields, such as by interspersing them among your own troops on battlements so at to discourage the enemy from firing at them for fear of hitting their own troops. 3. Protect them with your own life. Place the life of prisoners -- so long as they are not in open revolt or attempting to escape -- ahead of one's own. Do not force them to work (although providing them with only minimal humane -- although still human -- accomodations if they don't work, and more privileges if they do work, is acceptable) Protection of Civilians: 1. Do not deliberately destroy civilians or their possessions, even if you believe, but without proof in individual cases, that they are sympathetic to the enemy or supply them. Relocation of civilians believed to supply enemies is acceptable, provided that their internment is of limited duration and not marked by excessive material privations. 2. Take extensive (although not unlimited) measures to avoid killing civilians in the crossfire, such as with seige weaponry, area-effect spells, etc, even at the expense of tactical advantage. 3. Take extensive measure to prevent the enemy from killing civilians, even at the expense of tactical advantage, and do not categorically intern civilians who are suspected of aiding the enemy; civilians who aid the enemy can still be imprisoned on an individual basis, after a fair trial. Charity: 1. Help others when there is an oppurtunity to do so that does not greatly inconvenience you (for instance, if you notice a lost child in a market, take a few minutes to take her to whoever can make an announcement calling her mother). 2. Donate approximately 10% of earnings to charitable causes. 3. Devote life to helping others. This is not the same as a Vow of Poverty, and certainly characters at this obligation rating wouldn't be afraid to accept a masterwork longsword as a gift if they are warriors, but a character at this level of obligation might be expected to follow one of two paths: either going into some very non-lucrative vocation that helps the poor directly, such as being a healer in a remote, impoverished village, or going into a more lucrative profession, but only if it doesn't harm people (even if it doesn't directly help them like the previously mentioned alternative), and give approximately 50% of earnings from this more lucrative profession to charitable causes. Teh sexx0rs: 1. Don't rape people; don't coerce people into having sex, and don't have sex with people who lack the capacity for consent (i.e., unconscious people). 2. Do not have sex under false pretenses, implicit or explicit. Don't let one night stands think that they're going to get into a committed relationship. Take full responsibility for any reasonably forseeable consequences for sexual actions, such as providing for children and ensuring one's own health to avoid spreading disease. 3. Don't have sex with someone who is (willingly) already in a monogamous, closed relationship. Don't have sex with anyone other than your partner if YOU are (willingly) in a monogamous, closed, relationship. The (willingly) caveats apply to clear cases in which someone is in a forced, wrongful monogamous relationship (i.e., one's partner is someone else's sex slave), not cases in which, for example, one's partner married someone willingly and now regrets it, but doesn't want to leave, fearing that the spouse would gain custody of their children. Animal Welfare 1. Do not be cruel to animals for the sake of amusement or curiousity. Do not harm them unnecessarily. 2. Avoid engaging in or financing gratuitously cruel practices with regard to animal husbandry, hunting and trapping, and other practices. Avoid sources of products that do not afford a minimal degree of dignity to the animals used in their products (usually leather, meat, etc). (The production process of, for instance, veal, might violate this.) 3. Avoid killing or contributing to the killing or painful treatment of animals generally, even conventional, non-gratuitous ones. Do not wear leather, fur or hide (exceptions might be made for loot). Do not eat meat, dairy, or eggs. Avoid mount-dealers who do not raise their mounts kindly, or procure them from wholesalers who don't. Do not subject mounts to lethal forced marches. Submit your own obligation rating systems, for other types of stuff! |
| ManTimeForgot03-27-06, 03:34 AM | The actual phraseology is as follows: "Exalted Warriors are not to engage in behavior which reflects poorly upon the cause of Good (after all they are the champions of the cause of Good in the world), which includes but is not limited to: use of torture, poisons, diseases, cheating, habitual lying, slander, libel, or any act which would cause a person to feel neglected or taken advantage of" I intended this line of the code to protect the reputation of exalted warriors (read paladins for those who would apply this to base campaigns) and subsequently Good in general. If the exemplars of good behavior go around habitually cheating, lying, or slandering people, then this makes people question not only the veracity of good, but also the intentions of all that is Good. Quite simply that is something that cannot be abided for a servant of Good. Beer, Music, Carousing, etc are not strictly prohibited, but yes excess of any of the listed behaviors could probably violate the ethical clause. If you drink beer to the point that you are no longer able to rescue innocents should they become endangered, then you have shirked your responsibility and made people think less of you and your cause. Essentially the same holds true in roughly the same way for any "recreational" activity. Taking an ethical approach to establishing a base of "exalted" (read pure good) conduct, is interesting, but I always find that they are lacking in some way. Situations will always vary to some degree, and so while a listed choice might be "good" or "evil;" What happens when it differs slightly? My original idea for forming the basis of the "paladin" code of conduct was the establishment of core virtues: that is to say certain qualities which form the basis of what Good seeks to establish qualititatively within people. The 7 virtues were: Dedication, Love, Peace, Innocence, Justice, Honor, and Benevolence. Accordingly the goal of all Exalted Warriors was to possess the above qualities in abundance. I never bore this out to fruition though, and opted for a much more simplistic code for the Exalted Warrior because I did not want to infringe upon a players or DMs right to make additions or their own clarifications and still have it be consistent. MTF |