Feats and Skill selections [Archive] - Wizards Community

Feats and Skill selections [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Larielle Moonwhisper
11-06-04, 05:35 PM I am in a long term campaign playing two characters. Both characters are 7th level moving on to 8th in about 500 XP. I am going to "rest" one of the characters and substitute another one into the party for a few levels while the "resting" character develops more on the sidelines. The new character is going to be an 8th level elven rogue. I will have a total of 132 skill points to spend and I believe 3 feats to choose. I want this new character to be more of a behind the scenes, deceptive personality. I want her to be accomplished in sneaking around. She'll also be a serious type. I need to have her ready in a couple of weeks. Any ideas on which skills I should pay give more attention to? Also, since I have never played a pure rogue, which feats might be better for this character? I do want to concentrated skills becasue I want her to be successful in specific tasks like scouting, eavesdropping, breaking and entering...

I posted on another board (skills and feats) and it was suggested I ask around onthis board. Someone did suggest picking mobility feats to help with sneak attacks.

Thanks for any advice.
SpellMaster
11-06-04, 07:52 PM For skills, go with those that help your character concept: Balance, Bluff, Climb, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Sense Motive, Spot, and Tumble. These will help you be the sneak you want to be.

For feats, some nice ones are Stealthy, Acrobatic, Improved Initiative, Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, Improved Feint, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, and Weapon Finesse.

Hope this helps! Good luck! Rogues are great, but remember: they don't need to be thieves. That's an old 2E stereotype.
Dispeyr
11-10-04, 02:11 AM Tumble is incredibly useful for sneak attacking. The DC to move through enemy-occupied squares without provoking AoO's is only 25 with that skill, which means getting into a flanking position opposite the party fighter, or better yet, another rogue, isn't usually a problem. 8th level means 11 possible ranks, plus most likely a Dex modifier of 3 or better, given the elf bonus...you'll make that check roughly 50% of the time, and if you don't need to move through an enemy but can go around or between them, drop the DC for that check by 5 or more.

Beyond that, Bluff, Diplomacy, and Disguise make for an excellent combo for an infliltrator, while Hide and Move Silently are indispensable for anyone who would just generally prefer not to be seen at all. Listen and Spot are good skills to take up to at least middling ranks, the better to not be caught unawares, and if your DM allows, they can be used for extras such as eavesdropping or scanning written pages from a short distance away. If you wish to go with a rogue that uses Disguise to help with infiltration, you may also want to ask your DM if they would consider granting synergy bonuses for such things as Perform (Acting), or see if Perform (Impressions/Mimicry) could be used for vocal impersonation. If your campaign has you going into incredibly nonhuman territory, the whole disguise route may not be an option at all, however.

For the more technical rogues, Open Lock, Disable Device, and Search are handy things to have, the moreso if you'll be needed as a trapfinder or saboteur, and I'd suggest putting a decent amount of ranks in each. Sleight of Hand can probably be safely ignored by this character; it doesn't sound like a pickpocket or an assassin, and those are the two types that get the most benefit from that skill. Escape Artist is handy only if you're captured, in which case you'll wind up needing it at insanely high levels if your captors are at all competent (we're talking able to beat DC 30+ here), or if you get grappled often. It would be an all-or-nothing skill; if you've got an extra skill you can max, go for it, but otherwise, a few points won't help you. Heck, just using it to worm through a tight sewage duct is at DC 30. Also, depending on the specific game, Use Magic Device is either the best skill you can buy, or the most useless. If you don't have any means of getting some useful scrolls or wands, don't bother with it, but if you do, a few scrolls of Gaseous Form are quite possibly the most useful thing ever to a mid-level sneak rogue.

Balance, Jump, and Climb are fair skills to have, and I'd recommend getting your Balance and Jump modifiers to roughly +10 or so, with perhaps a bit more in Climb. There's no real need to max it out, though.

Useful feats might include Expertise and Improved Disarm/Trip, or Two-Weapon Fighting for that extra sneak attack at nearly your full BAB. Dash is also handy to increase your base movement rate. Improved Initiative isn't incredibly useful to you if you already have a high Dex mod, which you most likely do as an elven rogue; with a +4 or better, you're already a couple points above the vast majority of enemies, and the extra boost just ensures that you will go first all the time instead of most of the time. Improved Feint is a good idea if you intend the character to be away from the rest of the party fairly often, as well as Run: tumble the heck away from the enemies you accidentally alerted, and then sprint like crazy for the party. :P

If you provide some more details as far as what the campaign is like, I could probably tailor some better advice.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Larielle Moonwhisper 11-06-04, 05:35 PM	I am in a long term campaign playing two characters. Both characters are 7th level moving on to 8th in about 500 XP. I am going to "rest" one of the characters and substitute another one into the party for a few levels while the "resting" character develops more on the sidelines. The new character is going to be an 8th level elven rogue. I will have a total of 132 skill points to spend and I believe 3 feats to choose. I want this new character to be more of a behind the scenes, deceptive personality. I want her to be accomplished in sneaking around. She'll also be a serious type. I need to have her ready in a couple of weeks. Any ideas on which skills I should pay give more attention to? Also, since I have never played a pure rogue, which feats might be better for this character? I do want to concentrated skills becasue I want her to be successful in specific tasks like scouting, eavesdropping, breaking and entering... I posted on another board (skills and feats) and it was suggested I ask around onthis board. Someone did suggest picking mobility feats to help with sneak attacks. Thanks for any advice.
SpellMaster 11-06-04, 07:52 PM	For skills, go with those that help your character concept: Balance, Bluff, Climb, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Sense Motive, Spot, and Tumble. These will help you be the sneak you want to be. For feats, some nice ones are Stealthy, Acrobatic, Improved Initiative, Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, Improved Feint, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, and Weapon Finesse. Hope this helps! Good luck! Rogues are great, but remember: they don't need to be thieves. That's an old 2E stereotype.
Dispeyr 11-10-04, 02:11 AM	Tumble is incredibly useful for sneak attacking. The DC to move through enemy-occupied squares without provoking AoO's is only 25 with that skill, which means getting into a flanking position opposite the party fighter, or better yet, another rogue, isn't usually a problem. 8th level means 11 possible ranks, plus most likely a Dex modifier of 3 or better, given the elf bonus...you'll make that check roughly 50% of the time, and if you don't need to move through an enemy but can go around or between them, drop the DC for that check by 5 or more. Beyond that, Bluff, Diplomacy, and Disguise make for an excellent combo for an infliltrator, while Hide and Move Silently are indispensable for anyone who would just generally prefer not to be seen at all. Listen and Spot are good skills to take up to at least middling ranks, the better to not be caught unawares, and if your DM allows, they can be used for extras such as eavesdropping or scanning written pages from a short distance away. If you wish to go with a rogue that uses Disguise to help with infiltration, you may also want to ask your DM if they would consider granting synergy bonuses for such things as Perform (Acting), or see if Perform (Impressions/Mimicry) could be used for vocal impersonation. If your campaign has you going into incredibly nonhuman territory, the whole disguise route may not be an option at all, however. For the more technical rogues, Open Lock, Disable Device, and Search are handy things to have, the moreso if you'll be needed as a trapfinder or saboteur, and I'd suggest putting a decent amount of ranks in each. Sleight of Hand can probably be safely ignored by this character; it doesn't sound like a pickpocket or an assassin, and those are the two types that get the most benefit from that skill. Escape Artist is handy only if you're captured, in which case you'll wind up needing it at insanely high levels if your captors are at all competent (we're talking able to beat DC 30+ here), or if you get grappled often. It would be an all-or-nothing skill; if you've got an extra skill you can max, go for it, but otherwise, a few points won't help you. Heck, just using it to worm through a tight sewage duct is at DC 30. Also, depending on the specific game, Use Magic Device is either the best skill you can buy, or the most useless. If you don't have any means of getting some useful scrolls or wands, don't bother with it, but if you do, a few scrolls of Gaseous Form are quite possibly the most useful thing ever to a mid-level sneak rogue. Balance, Jump, and Climb are fair skills to have, and I'd recommend getting your Balance and Jump modifiers to roughly +10 or so, with perhaps a bit more in Climb. There's no real need to max it out, though. Useful feats might include Expertise and Improved Disarm/Trip, or Two-Weapon Fighting for that extra sneak attack at nearly your full BAB. Dash is also handy to increase your base movement rate. Improved Initiative isn't incredibly useful to you if you already have a high Dex mod, which you most likely do as an elven rogue; with a +4 or better, you're already a couple points above the vast majority of enemies, and the extra boost just ensures that you will go first all the time instead of most of the time. Improved Feint is a good idea if you intend the character to be away from the rest of the party fairly often, as well as Run: tumble the heck away from the enemies you accidentally alerted, and then sprint like crazy for the party. :P If you provide some more details as far as what the campaign is like, I could probably tailor some better advice.