Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Fithero 08-23-07, 11:10 PM	I just got Fiendish Codex II (Devils), and alot of the content in there is great (love the Hellbred race) but it got me thinking. Why the *hell* would anyone actually follow these evil forces? If you follow an evil god as a cleric, he/she grants you spells and gives you the random boon but then you have to spend all eternity under his control being tortured. If you make a pact with a devil, you get something that is never worth your soul, most likely end up getting murdered by the devil you made the pact with then end up being tortured until all traces of your personality are gone and you become a lemure. Meanwhile, if you follow a goodly god and become a cleric, you get spells, get the odd boon and end up living in paradise along side him/her for eternity. So... why the heck would anyone follow the bad guys when the good guys give you just as much but without the eternity of suffering? Has anyone had any evil divine characters? How did they justify following an devil/evil god and an eternity of suffer? Cheers
hekate 08-24-07, 02:37 AM	There could be many role-playing reasons. Too many to list, but a few ideas could be: fear or intimidation by the devil, veneration or reverence by the player, ignorance by the player, deceit of greater things to come (or than can even be granted) by the devil, etc etc. I think the crux of this question brings in an element outside role-playing, though: meta-gaming. Anyone who reads the books knows that devils and demons ask for more than they deliver, but to bring this to the character's realm of knowledge has an aura of meta-gaming. In general, most characters (starting out) do not really know what a devil or demon can or can't actually do. In fact, logistically, there are many very high level characters with all kinds of Knowledge: Religion and Arcana who have no clue. Exposure is part of knowledge and wisdom; if your character never faces many demons/devils or delves into direct knowledge of them, then how could they know? Also, going back to a role-playing rationale, it is possible that a less powerful demon or devil could cajole assistance from a particularly savvy player by promising "if you help me rise to the top and overthrow [insert demon/devil lord here], then I will make all your greatest wishes come true." Just some thoughts. :)
JulesCARV 08-24-07, 06:46 AM	There's some discussion of this on this old mature topics thread (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=11897237). My view is that most worshippers of evil gods worship them because that's what their parents worshipped and what they grew up with and are used to. They aren't necessarily very devout and committed in their faith (just as most worshippers of good or neutral gods aren't), but when they do pray, that's whom they pray to. (The same is true of good and neutral gods; for most people who don't have a particularly strong internal moral or theological compass, who you end up worshipping is something of a matter of luck -- who your parents were, what area you grew up in, etc.) As for the converts, who became followers of devils or evil gods later in life, they're a different matter, and are generally nasty pieces of work, but no generalized motivation can be ascribed to them. It all depends on the god or fiend they decide to follow. The motivations of a convert to Erythnul worship are likely quite different from the motivations of a convert to Vecna worship. Of course, some might join an evil church without really being into the deity. (For instance, they're lonely, depressed, and isolated in a new town, and there are no good churches around, so they go to a local church of Nerull (or whatever) to meet friends and such (some evil churches use "love bombing" tactics to gain converts), and then later become sincere beleivers.)
hekate 08-24-07, 04:15 PM	I forgot to add, I have only played one "evil deity" devoutee. It was a half-elf Cleric of Shar. The reason for his devotion came from the way the town he grew up in (Human) treated him: as an outcast. It is exactly in line with what JulesCARV stated: he was alone and needed some reason to feel he belonged and the promise of any "power" or "control" over his environment was enough to tempt him.
Murg 08-25-07, 08:30 AM	As a DM I got around this by the simple expedient of saying that evil people don't automatically get converted into demon/devil fodder when they die, and the evil gods don't generally torture their followers for all eternity when they end up in hell. In my campaigns the evil gods are primarily interested in gaining more power for themselves. So if a follower of an evil god of thieves died their spirit would end up in a "hell" run by their diety where everything would be oriented towards thievery. This would not generally include torturing the thief for being a thief, as the deity would not gain many followers if he mistreated his followers in the mortal life or afterlife. As to why people would be evil, one thing I stressed in my campaigns in that evil is the path to power at the expense of humanity. It should be harder to be a hero than a villain. It's easy for a villain to sack a defenseless village (and get lots of XP and loot from it). It's much harder for a hero to hunt down the well-armed brigands who sacked the village and bring them to justice (all the while dealing with the "evil" tactics of the brigands like using captured villagers as human shields). This is one way how I explained why my campaigns had many more high level evil characters than high level good ones.