FOUNDING an order for Fists of Raziel....how? [Archive] - Wizards Community

FOUNDING an order for Fists of Raziel....how? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Nicholas the Paladin
12-16-04, 04:26 PM Hi all,

I'm considering in taking the Fist of Raziel PrC for my paladin in Thetyr. Besides that I'm considering not 'joining' this elite force of Paladins and Clerics...but actually 'founding' the order or organisation that is in the forefront against evil and evil outsiders in particular.

This will be done around level 9 orso and my paladin is already part of a paladin order that worships the Traid (Torm, Tyr and Ilmater = FR).

How would this come into place?

I'm thinking about being 'just' a heavenly 'smiter' around level 9 and later on beginning to recruit others around me and setting up an organisation (this will be mostly roleplaying, that hopefully doesn't interfere with te interest of my group of fellow PC's)..... that will 'become' the Order of Fists.

Just some thoughts:
- Would this require a special sort of initiation of myself and others, with the help of celestials? If yes, what and how?
- What kind of vow or sacrifice would it take?
- What particular enemies would this order take..... besides the obvious demons and devils (etc)?
- What would be the NATURE of this organisation?
- What would be typical missions?
- What kind of persons (personalities/races) would this order attract?
- I'm playing a country in which nobility is important part (Thetyr). Would I need to be a Sir or a Lord in order to found an organisation like this?
- Do I need special, seperate keep/fort for this order or can I still be part of my Triad Order?

You get the point. Some roleplaying įnd practical tips are needed.

Thanks for your help.
Kingside_Bishop
12-16-04, 07:52 PM I love founding orders. It can be huge fun. I don't know anything about the Fist of Razial, though. Could you maybe fill me in on the specs?

- Would this require a special sort of initiation of myself and others, with the help of celestials? If yes, what and how?I think that depends on the PrC. If there's a special requirement of any kind, and you're starting an order based on that PrC, all members would need to take that vow some point prior to taking levels. From a rooleplay perspective, if the order is a good order of some kind (and I'm assuming it is), it would help your credibility to swear an oath to a celestial of some kind, and recieve some kind of gift from him declaring your legitimacy as a good order. The GP cost of this gift could be taken out of your stronghold fund (which I'll cover later).

- What kind of vow or sacrifice would it take?Oh, something similar to what paladins take. This also largely depends on the nature of the PrC. A little info on the PrC would again be helpful, flavor wise and all.

- What particular enemies would this order take..... besides the obvious demons and devils (etc)?Need info on the PrC...

- What would be the NATURE of this organisation?same ol' same ol'

- What would be typical missions?...

- What kind of persons (personalities/races) would this order attract?...

- I'm playing a country in which nobility is important part (Thetyr). Would I need to be a Sir or a Lord in order to found an organisation like this?Probably, yes you should be a knight in order to establish an order where knights are highly respected -- unless you want your order to be the exception to the rule (i.e. you'll except anyone of good heart, regardless of social standing).

- Do I need special, seperate keep/fort for this order or can I still be part of my Triad Order?How about this: you can found a new sub-branch of your order, you know, a place that specializes in one kind of action. This seems to be what you're looking for, anyway (your questions about what kind of missions, who would come, favored enemies, etc.). Then, take the Leadership and Landlord feats. Have your cohort run the stronghold. This way, your status as head of an organization won't interfere with your adventuring. Your stronghold doesn't even have to be seperate from your order's, you could just build a whole new wing.

Incidentally, Landlord is from the Stronghold Builder's Guide, a WotC paperback supplement (similar to the splatbooks), that has everything you ever wanted/needed to know about building strongholds. It's an awesome book. Landlord is a feat that you can take if you have at an 8th level character. With the approval of some order (in your case, the Triad Order), you get money to build a stronghold. Take the feat, you get free money to build a stronghold. It's good stuff.

So, here's a bulleted list of my recomendations:
Give us more info on the specs (flavor and statwise) of this PrC.
Select a specific function of your Triad Order for your new order to specialize in.
Petition the leaders of your Triad Order to start the new order.
Take Leadership and Landlord, and begin construction of your order's stronghold.
Leave your cohort in charge of the stronghold, with your followers as lieutenants.
Continue adventuring.
Nicholas the Paladin
12-17-04, 08:24 AM I love founding orders. It can be huge fun. I don't know anything about the Fist of Razial, though. Could you maybe fill me in on the specs?
The FoR is a PrC from the Book of Exalted Deeds. Mostly paladins and priests join this order that follows (i think) Raziel, some celestial higher being....which in case of Forgotten Realms could very likely be the gods Torm or Tyr.
The main feature of the PrC is that he-she gets a lot more Holy Smites (like a paladin) , that become more powerfull overt time and continues her spellcasting level.
IIRC, it requires a feat in POwerattack and “servant of the heavens“.....which is a waste for a featslot...but the PrC is worth it. This Servant feat requires the FoR to make a vow of allegiance to some celestial being (it gives a meager plus 1 bonus to one save, once per day)

In my point of view this celestial being could be the God Tyr himself...since he also resides on the celestial plane the BoED mentions. This fits my paladin of Tyr perfectely.

How about this: you can found a new sub-branch of your order, you know, a place that specializes in one kind of action. This seems to be what you're looking for, anyway (your questions about what kind of missions, who would come, favored enemies, etc.). Then, take the Leadership and Landlord feats. Have your cohort run the stronghold. This way, your status as head of an organization won't interfere with your adventuring. Your stronghold doesn't even have to be seperate from your order's, you could just build a whole new wing.
good idea
Hammer_of_Moradin
01-10-05, 09:19 PM I'm in the process of doing something similar myself. Taking the FoR PrC and turning it into the basis of The Sacred Order of the Hammers of Moradin for my Dwarven Paladin. (We don't play Forgotten Realms, I just learned of the HoM PrC the other day when I joined here.) Their brother Order is the Sacred and Diligent order of the Shields of Moradin, a take on the Dwarven Defender/Defender of Sealtiel PrCs.

Would this require a special sort of initiation of myself and others, with the help of celestials? If yes, what and how? What kind of vow or sacrifice would it take?

A vow is completely appropriate and called for. Using the Servant of the Heavens feat requirement as the game mechanic of taking the vow is a great way of doing it, as was already mentioned.

- What particular enemies would this order take..... besides the obvious demons and devils (etc)?

What enemies does the order have naturally in their home nation? I see the FoR PrC as being the offensive arm of the religion and see it as their duty to go forth and actively defend the defensless. Being Lawful Good in orientation perhaps their "natural" enemies are tyrant states that use the letter of the law to subjugate their populace instead of using it to enhance the quality of their lives. I'm not up on 3e religion in FR, but in 2e Cyric/Bane/Mask were the natural enemies of Tyr and the Triad. Their respective churches would be a good enemy organization. Does their homeland have a problem with organized crime? Powerful Thieve's and Assassin's Guilds are excellent foes for an order of Paladins.

What would be the NATURE of this organisation?

See above. :)

What would be typical missions?

Going forth and defeating the above, along with the usual fare for knightly orders.

What kind of persons (personalities/races) would this order attract?

Probably those people who are pro-active and feel very strongly about their beliefs. They would also need to be very gentle and kind to be able to provide care and succor to those they're rescued.

I'm playing a country in which nobility is important part (Thetyr). Would I need to be a Sir or a Lord in order to found an organisation like this?

Chances are good that those who are in the order will be come Sirs or Lords in their own right, though they may not necessarily start out as nobility. No doubt that members of such a visible and active order would easily be eligible for entitlement although they may be required by vows to sign the land over to the care of the church....

Do I need special, seperate keep/fort for this order or can I still be part of my Triad Order?

Chances are good that most major fortresses to the Triad will have chapterhouses for the order in them. It's also likely that there is some sort of headquarters keep somewhere out there, even if it's an annexed building of a larger complex.

Best,
Phil

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nicholas the Paladin 12-16-04, 04:26 PM	Hi all, I'm considering in taking the Fist of Raziel PrC for my paladin in Thetyr. Besides that I'm considering not 'joining' this elite force of Paladins and Clerics...but actually 'founding' the order or organisation that is in the forefront against evil and evil outsiders in particular. This will be done around level 9 orso and my paladin is already part of a paladin order that worships the Traid (Torm, Tyr and Ilmater = FR). How would this come into place? I'm thinking about being 'just' a heavenly 'smiter' around level 9 and later on beginning to recruit others around me and setting up an organisation (this will be mostly roleplaying, that hopefully doesn't interfere with te interest of my group of fellow PC's)..... that will 'become' the Order of Fists. Just some thoughts: - Would this require a special sort of initiation of myself and others, with the help of celestials? If yes, what and how? - What kind of vow or sacrifice would it take? - What particular enemies would this order take..... besides the obvious demons and devils (etc)? - What would be the NATURE of this organisation? - What would be typical missions? - What kind of persons (personalities/races) would this order attract? - I'm playing a country in which nobility is important part (Thetyr). Would I need to be a Sir or a Lord in order to found an organisation like this? - Do I need special, seperate keep/fort for this order or can I still be part of my Triad Order? You get the point. Some roleplaying įnd practical tips are needed. Thanks for your help.
Kingside_Bishop 12-16-04, 07:52 PM	I love founding orders. It can be huge fun. I don't know anything about the Fist of Razial, though. Could you maybe fill me in on the specs? - Would this require a special sort of initiation of myself and others, with the help of celestials? If yes, what and how?I think that depends on the PrC. If there's a special requirement of any kind, and you're starting an order based on that PrC, all members would need to take that vow some point prior to taking levels. From a rooleplay perspective, if the order is a good order of some kind (and I'm assuming it is), it would help your credibility to swear an oath to a celestial of some kind, and recieve some kind of gift from him declaring your legitimacy as a good order. The GP cost of this gift could be taken out of your stronghold fund (which I'll cover later). - What kind of vow or sacrifice would it take?Oh, something similar to what paladins take. This also largely depends on the nature of the PrC. A little info on the PrC would again be helpful, flavor wise and all. - What particular enemies would this order take..... besides the obvious demons and devils (etc)?Need info on the PrC... - What would be the NATURE of this organisation?same ol' same ol' - What would be typical missions?... - What kind of persons (personalities/races) would this order attract?... - I'm playing a country in which nobility is important part (Thetyr). Would I need to be a Sir or a Lord in order to found an organisation like this?Probably, yes you should be a knight in order to establish an order where knights are highly respected -- unless you want your order to be the exception to the rule (i.e. you'll except anyone of good heart, regardless of social standing). - Do I need special, seperate keep/fort for this order or can I still be part of my Triad Order?How about this: you can found a new sub-branch of your order, you know, a place that specializes in one kind of action. This seems to be what you're looking for, anyway (your questions about what kind of missions, who would come, favored enemies, etc.). Then, take the Leadership and Landlord feats. Have your cohort run the stronghold. This way, your status as head of an organization won't interfere with your adventuring. Your stronghold doesn't even have to be seperate from your order's, you could just build a whole new wing. Incidentally, Landlord is from the Stronghold Builder's Guide, a WotC paperback supplement (similar to the splatbooks), that has everything you ever wanted/needed to know about building strongholds. It's an awesome book. Landlord is a feat that you can take if you have at an 8th level character. With the approval of some order (in your case, the Triad Order), you get money to build a stronghold. Take the feat, you get free money to build a stronghold. It's good stuff. So, here's a bulleted list of my recomendations: Give us more info on the specs (flavor and statwise) of this PrC. Select a specific function of your Triad Order for your new order to specialize in. Petition the leaders of your Triad Order to start the new order. Take Leadership and Landlord, and begin construction of your order's stronghold. Leave your cohort in charge of the stronghold, with your followers as lieutenants. Continue adventuring.
Nicholas the Paladin 12-17-04, 08:24 AM	I love founding orders. It can be huge fun. I don't know anything about the Fist of Razial, though. Could you maybe fill me in on the specs? The FoR is a PrC from the Book of Exalted Deeds. Mostly paladins and priests join this order that follows (i think) Raziel, some celestial higher being....which in case of Forgotten Realms could very likely be the gods Torm or Tyr. The main feature of the PrC is that he-she gets a lot more Holy Smites (like a paladin) , that become more powerfull overt time and continues her spellcasting level. IIRC, it requires a feat in POwerattack and “servant of the heavens“.....which is a waste for a featslot...but the PrC is worth it. This Servant feat requires the FoR to make a vow of allegiance to some celestial being (it gives a meager plus 1 bonus to one save, once per day) In my point of view this celestial being could be the God Tyr himself...since he also resides on the celestial plane the BoED mentions. This fits my paladin of Tyr perfectely. How about this: you can found a new sub-branch of your order, you know, a place that specializes in one kind of action. This seems to be what you're looking for, anyway (your questions about what kind of missions, who would come, favored enemies, etc.). Then, take the Leadership and Landlord feats. Have your cohort run the stronghold. This way, your status as head of an organization won't interfere with your adventuring. Your stronghold doesn't even have to be seperate from your order's, you could just build a whole new wing. good idea
Hammer_of_Moradin 01-10-05, 09:19 PM	I'm in the process of doing something similar myself. Taking the FoR PrC and turning it into the basis of The Sacred Order of the Hammers of Moradin for my Dwarven Paladin. (We don't play Forgotten Realms, I just learned of the HoM PrC the other day when I joined here.) Their brother Order is the Sacred and Diligent order of the Shields of Moradin, a take on the Dwarven Defender/Defender of Sealtiel PrCs. Would this require a special sort of initiation of myself and others, with the help of celestials? If yes, what and how? What kind of vow or sacrifice would it take? A vow is completely appropriate and called for. Using the Servant of the Heavens feat requirement as the game mechanic of taking the vow is a great way of doing it, as was already mentioned. - What particular enemies would this order take..... besides the obvious demons and devils (etc)? What enemies does the order have naturally in their home nation? I see the FoR PrC as being the offensive arm of the religion and see it as their duty to go forth and actively defend the defensless. Being Lawful Good in orientation perhaps their "natural" enemies are tyrant states that use the letter of the law to subjugate their populace instead of using it to enhance the quality of their lives. I'm not up on 3e religion in FR, but in 2e Cyric/Bane/Mask were the natural enemies of Tyr and the Triad. Their respective churches would be a good enemy organization. Does their homeland have a problem with organized crime? Powerful Thieve's and Assassin's Guilds are excellent foes for an order of Paladins. What would be the NATURE of this organisation? See above. :) What would be typical missions? Going forth and defeating the above, along with the usual fare for knightly orders. What kind of persons (personalities/races) would this order attract? Probably those people who are pro-active and feel very strongly about their beliefs. They would also need to be very gentle and kind to be able to provide care and succor to those they're rescued. I'm playing a country in which nobility is important part (Thetyr). Would I need to be a Sir or a Lord in order to found an organisation like this? Chances are good that those who are in the order will be come Sirs or Lords in their own right, though they may not necessarily start out as nobility. No doubt that members of such a visible and active order would easily be eligible for entitlement although they may be required by vows to sign the land over to the care of the church.... Do I need special, seperate keep/fort for this order or can I still be part of my Triad Order? Chances are good that most major fortresses to the Triad will have chapterhouses for the order in them. It's also likely that there is some sort of headquarters keep somewhere out there, even if it's an annexed building of a larger complex. Best, Phil