Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Arturius1 10-01-07, 09:29 AM	I'm working on a character build that specializes in slaying mages. The idea is that he feels arcana (if not all magic) is inherently evil, and should be destroyed. I'm nearly finished, but the build includes Vow of Poverty, so I need a patron deity for him that would actually support his ideals. Kord might work, but I'm not sure. Could someone render assistance?
Karish 10-01-07, 10:02 AM	Well Pelor's a bright and shining example of a good God who's probably actually a false action created by some demon king or Nerull or something. I'd just say you take the Burning Hate there, and have at it.
Uberwoot 10-01-07, 10:30 AM	Among the standard player's handbook deities, none actively support mage slaying, and I don't believe any deity in the forgotten realms espouses this ideal either. My question is: does Vow of Poverty definitively mean you are religious? Perhaps you're an atheist who believes in the strength of Man, the power of humankind to overcome all adversity. This would work nicely alongside a dislike for magic- it's just a crutch, after all. /woot
The_Shaman 10-01-07, 11:12 AM	I'm working on a character build that specializes in slaying mages. The idea is that he feels arcana (if not all magic) is inherently evil, and should be destroyed. I'm nearly finished, but the build includes Vow of Poverty, so I need a patron deity for him that would actually support his ideals. Kord might work, but I'm not sure. Could someone render assistance? The thing is, if he kills mages indiscriminately, he would have a serious problem retaining a good alignment, much less even touching exalted material. I don't imagine an exalted character killing the king's NG oracle (diviner), as simple as that. I hope I don't need to tell you that as far as exalted goes, killing is something one does rarely and only for a very, very good reason. Apart from that, I think it would depend mostly on why s/he's killing mages, and which ones. Heironeous might have no quarter with a champion who bravely confronts and defeats evil masterminds. Pelor would be behind nearly anyone who opposes necromancy, and the racial deities would sponsor a champion who defeats mages that harass the respective race.
JulesCARV 10-01-07, 03:52 PM	As The_Shaman mentioned, Vow of Poverty doesn't require a supportive god. It requires something more difficult: exalted status. If you're going to kill any mages you see, that's an evil character, thus ruling out Vow of Poverty. If you have a generally anti-magic attitude, but actually only attack mages who are harming you or others, then the character is a possibiltiy. That brings up a kinda interesting idea for a god, though: an anti-magic god, who wouldn't grant clerical (or favored soul, or any other spells) spells, and thus would not have clerics as his champions, but rather exclusively barbarians, fighters, monks, rogues, and the like (possibly not barbarians and monks for the same deity). A high priest might be a rogue or monk with good diplomacy, perform (oratory), and sense motive. I don't imagine this religion would get very many adherents in D&D, but it certainly might exist, somewhat like how the Amish exist in spite of their avoidance of using most industrial technology.
Alodar_Advo 10-01-07, 05:27 PM	Big Caveat: Buddhism is a religion built on peaceful means. I'm not making a value judgment about Religion, nor espousing one belief's merits, here Buddhism is used only as an example. As others described... what if your guy believed strongly in reasoning and sanity and took a Zen like approach to life... For instance, Buddhism doesn't place power into an almighty God, but rather into the individual person and their desire to obtain a higher state of existence through actions and non-actions...vis a vis meditation. Perhaps your guy belongs to a radical group who believe magic is against the sanity of the world, and is preventing it from enlightment. Two problems however with an anti-magic character... How are you going to handle magic users in the group Who is going to heal you? I hope that helps.
Arturius1 10-01-07, 10:32 PM	1. He won't kill them indescriminately, but he won't be too keen on being nice to them. And if they step out of line, he'll see that as reason enough to either slay or bring them to the proper authority. 2. While you don't need to worship a god, a god still foots the bill for divine abilities. If none of them want to support you, you don't get powers. A cleric may follow an ideal, but the powers don't come from nowhere. 3. He'll heal with a PrC that has Fast Healing. 4. Not travel with a magic-user if at all possible.
INeedNoSalt 10-01-07, 10:48 PM	2. While you don't need to worship a god, a god still foots the bill for divine abilities. If none of them want to support you, you don't get powers. A cleric may follow an ideal, but the powers don't come from nowhere. I am pretty sure that is not the case. Playing a character that hates a group of people indiscriminately is probably not a Good character, especially if he takes any slight as a reason to 'slay them.'
Arturius1 10-01-07, 10:59 PM	Isn't that the complete basis of rangers? They get bonuses against specific creatures. If an elf hates humans and makes them a favored enemy, and worships Correllon Larethian, would they be immediately considered evil?
Think0028 10-01-07, 11:14 PM	Well, if they don't have a better reason, kinda, yeah. They're saying "I'm gonna train and train to kill humans." If they're something like a policeman who has to deal with humans every day, then yeah, they could be good, but if they're focusing on killing every human they meet: that's evil. It's like the difference between a SWAT guy and a mobster: both end up fighting (other) criminals a lot, but one is likely good and the other is very very unlikely to be good.
INeedNoSalt 10-01-07, 11:46 PM	Isn't that the complete basis of rangers? They get bonuses against specific creatures. If an elf hates humans and makes them a favored enemy, and worships Correllon Larethian, would they be immediately considered evil? They sure would if they killed humans at the drop of a hat.
JulesCARV 10-02-07, 12:13 AM	You could talk to your DM about allowing Vow of Poverty to non-good, non-exalted characters so long as they have an appropriate deity. Pholtus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pholtus) might be a good supportive deity; I think that he's into the whole "witch hunting" thing. Many consider the Vow of Poverty to be underpowered regardless. Some might say "the Book of Exalted Deeds should never be used as an interchangeable splatbook with adaptable feats! It should only be used by ultra-serious, ultra-mature gamers dedicated to upholding the BoED vision of righteousness 100%!" Still, so long as you understand what you're going for -- an ascetic, morally dubious anti-magic character who is independent of expensive magical equipment -- I see no reason some adaptation of the Vow of Poverty to a non-exalted character wouldn't work, as long as DM and player are in concord about how this adaptation will work.
The_Shaman 10-02-07, 03:53 AM	Isn't that the complete basis of rangers? They get bonuses against specific creatures. If an elf hates humans and makes them a favored enemy, and worships Correllon Larethian, would they be immediately considered evil? I'm with think on that one. The ranger focuses his training against certain creatures, but it need not be motivated by pure hatred. A human ranger might have trained to fight human poachers or brigands and not hate all humanity. This extensive training can be motivated by racial hatred, but need not be.
Arturius1 10-02-07, 08:43 PM	You could talk to your DM about allowing Vow of Poverty to non-good, non-exalted characters so long as they have an appropriate deity. Pholtus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pholtus) might be a good supportive deity; I think that he's into the whole "witch hunting" thing. Many consider the Vow of Poverty to be underpowered regardless. Some might say "the Book of Exalted Deeds should never be used as an interchangeable splatbook with adaptable feats! It should only be used by ultra-serious, ultra-mature gamers dedicated to upholding the BoED vision of righteousness 100%!" Still, so long as you understand what you're going for -- an ascetic, morally dubious anti-magic character who is independent of expensive magical equipment -- I see no reason some adaptation of the Vow of Poverty to a non-exalted character wouldn't work, as long as DM and player are in concord about how this adaptation will work. Thanks Jules! That helped big time :D