Gray Guard's code [Archive] - Wizards Community

Gray Guard's code [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Timespike
04-05-08, 03:54 PM I really liked the (admittedly controversial) Gray Guard prestige class in Complete Scoundrel, and I've come up with a revised code to better reflect the Gray Guard's outlook. Tell me what you think.

1. Innocent life is important beyond all else. You are one of the good guys. You do not hurt innocent people, or by inaction allow them to be harmed if you can at all prevent it. If it comes down to saving the innocent or punishing the guilty, you must chose the former over the latter.

2. Wicked life is worthless. Those who would willingly, knowingly, and intentionally harm innocent people for personal gain, to show homage to some dark force, for pleasure, or for some other, darker purpose have irrevocably forfeited every right they have ever possessed as a consequence of their actions. They may be blackmailed, tortured, lied to, intimidated, harmed, or killed outright. These actions should not be taken lightly or for their own sake, but when it is necessary to do so, do not shrink from what must be done.

3. Justice is superior to mercy. Forgiveness is for the afterlife. If there is no way to undo the actions that have drawn your attention, there can be no forgiveness for them. Do not be swayed by pleas for mercy. Think of the victims and dispense justice, not mercy.

4. Know before acting. Those who mistake the innocent for the wicked can swiftly become wicked themselves. Should this happen to you, your former brethren will show you no special treatment.

5. Be implacable. No evildoer should ever achieve more than a temporary victory against you. If they prevail or escape and you yet live, marshall whatever resources are necessary and hunt them down.

6. Honor is discipline. Rather than devoting yourself to some abstract and limiting code of fair play or chivalrous combat, develop your self into the most finely-honed weapon you can. Condition your body, mind, and soul to be the perfect weapon against those who would oppress and destroy. Never allow yourself to forget what it is that you are sworn to preserve, or allow cynicism to cloud the distinction between those who need protection and those they must be protected from.

7. Win. Your job is to keep the wolves away from the sheep. Do what you have to and lose no sleep over it. Keep yourself in top fighting condition and do not allow mysticism, ritual, comfort or tradition to interfere with your singularity of purpose. Against the foes you face, there is no room for fairness. They will not show it to you. Use whatever tactics and resources you have at your disposal to achieve victory, for if they win, the result will be much worse.
The_Shaman
04-05-08, 05:39 PM You know, I thought the entire purpose of the Grey guard is that you tend to break the rules a bit too often and become a bit too good at it. This sounds more like the code of the Shadowbane inquisitors, instead. It could work for GGs, I guess, but I have my own - low - opinion on the viability of execution of the GG and it probably colors my judgement.

One thing, though: their arguably most controversial ability is being able to smite - anyone, not just evil characters. Try to ensure Pt. 2 works with that.
Timespike
04-05-08, 06:11 PM You know, I thought the entire purpose of the Grey guard is that you tend to break the rules a bit too often and become a bit too good at it. This sounds more like the code of the Shadowbane inquisitors, instead. It could work for GGs, I guess, but I have my own - low - opinion on the viability of execution of the GG and it probably colors my judgement.

One thing, though: their arguably most controversial ability is being able to smite - anyone, not just evil characters. Try to ensure Pt. 2 works with that.

Truthfully, I feel no compulsion to reconcile the ability to smite anyone with #2. In fact, I think the increased functionality of their smite ability is covered well by #4. If someone is wholly controlled by evil, such as a irretrievably possessed person, for instance, that's where you use the generic smite.

In addition, I'm not entirely convinced the Shadowbanes would admonish their followers not to feel the weight of what they've had to do. I would picture veteran Shadowbane Inquisitors as broken, tragic heroes, nearly crushed under the enormity of what they've been made to do in the name of the greater good and resigned that they will never know peace, even in the afterlife, but resolute and willing to die for what they believe in if it comes to that. Grey guards, on the other hand, are probably possessed of so much righteous anger that it insulates them somewhat. Oh, and the Shadowbane inquisitors can smite anyone they want, right out of the proverbial gates. It just doesn't stack with the paladin smite the way the GG's does.
The_Shaman
04-05-08, 07:12 PM Not quite. Actually, I imagine veteran gray guards like that, not necessarily Shadowbanes. To be honest, Shadowbane inquisitors can be like what you said, but can be pretty much like standard paladins - if somewhat less bound by their code. OTOH, the way I understood the GG prestige is that it was for characters who, likewise, don't feel so bound by the paladin oaths. Remember, however, that by CScoundrel they still respect the same oaths and it is these oaths that determine if they stand or fall - until level 10, at least. Self-righteous fury may will probably be present to some degree in both classes, but I don't think either character has any monopoly on it.

My biggest issue with Smite anything is that it allows you the option to use your divine-granted powers against any foe, no matter how vile or sacrosanct. That presumes a certain level of uncaring, both yours or your patrons. If you are willing to accept a power to hurt anyone, then how can innocent life be worth more than anything for you? If it were, you would not accept such power, nor use it. That's one of the biggest issues I have with the GG: in order to more efficiently hunt down evil characters, you learn how to smite CNs and CGs. Right, and the best way to hurt Levistus would be to kill his slaad underlings?

The possession case is tricky. Technically, the person you are fighting is controlled by an outside force, by definition they are innocent: they can not be guilty of what they have no control of. They can be held responsible, but there's another thing. If they have been tempted, and accept this force, then they are no longer innocent. Killing an innocent may be unavoidable, but I can't help but that if you truly value them so much, you would do everything in your power - and try even that which is beyond it - to avoid it. Same way for, say, certain ways to get to the bad guys. If you value innocent lives over all, some roads are going to be closed to you - such as taking his daughter hostage (presuming she is innocent, of course - she might be as much of a b...h as him) or using other innocents, which he may care about, to get at him. That is why I had a problem with #1 and #2.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Timespike 04-05-08, 03:54 PM	I really liked the (admittedly controversial) Gray Guard prestige class in Complete Scoundrel, and I've come up with a revised code to better reflect the Gray Guard's outlook. Tell me what you think. 1. Innocent life is important beyond all else. You are one of the good guys. You do not hurt innocent people, or by inaction allow them to be harmed if you can at all prevent it. If it comes down to saving the innocent or punishing the guilty, you must chose the former over the latter. 2. Wicked life is worthless. Those who would willingly, knowingly, and intentionally harm innocent people for personal gain, to show homage to some dark force, for pleasure, or for some other, darker purpose have irrevocably forfeited every right they have ever possessed as a consequence of their actions. They may be blackmailed, tortured, lied to, intimidated, harmed, or killed outright. These actions should not be taken lightly or for their own sake, but when it is necessary to do so, do not shrink from what must be done. 3. Justice is superior to mercy. Forgiveness is for the afterlife. If there is no way to undo the actions that have drawn your attention, there can be no forgiveness for them. Do not be swayed by pleas for mercy. Think of the victims and dispense justice, not mercy. 4. Know before acting. Those who mistake the innocent for the wicked can swiftly become wicked themselves. Should this happen to you, your former brethren will show you no special treatment. 5. Be implacable. No evildoer should ever achieve more than a temporary victory against you. If they prevail or escape and you yet live, marshall whatever resources are necessary and hunt them down. 6. Honor is discipline. Rather than devoting yourself to some abstract and limiting code of fair play or chivalrous combat, develop your self into the most finely-honed weapon you can. Condition your body, mind, and soul to be the perfect weapon against those who would oppress and destroy. Never allow yourself to forget what it is that you are sworn to preserve, or allow cynicism to cloud the distinction between those who need protection and those they must be protected from. 7. Win. Your job is to keep the wolves away from the sheep. Do what you have to and lose no sleep over it. Keep yourself in top fighting condition and do not allow mysticism, ritual, comfort or tradition to interfere with your singularity of purpose. Against the foes you face, there is no room for fairness. They will not show it to you. Use whatever tactics and resources you have at your disposal to achieve victory, for if they win, the result will be much worse.
The_Shaman 04-05-08, 05:39 PM	You know, I thought the entire purpose of the Grey guard is that you tend to break the rules a bit too often and become a bit too good at it. This sounds more like the code of the Shadowbane inquisitors, instead. It could work for GGs, I guess, but I have my own - low - opinion on the viability of execution of the GG and it probably colors my judgement. One thing, though: their arguably most controversial ability is being able to smite - anyone, not just evil characters. Try to ensure Pt. 2 works with that.
Timespike 04-05-08, 06:11 PM	You know, I thought the entire purpose of the Grey guard is that you tend to break the rules a bit too often and become a bit too good at it. This sounds more like the code of the Shadowbane inquisitors, instead. It could work for GGs, I guess, but I have my own - low - opinion on the viability of execution of the GG and it probably colors my judgement. One thing, though: their arguably most controversial ability is being able to smite - anyone, not just evil characters. Try to ensure Pt. 2 works with that. Truthfully, I feel no compulsion to reconcile the ability to smite anyone with #2. In fact, I think the increased functionality of their smite ability is covered well by #4. If someone is wholly controlled by evil, such as a irretrievably possessed person, for instance, that's where you use the generic smite. In addition, I'm not entirely convinced the Shadowbanes would admonish their followers not to feel the weight of what they've had to do. I would picture veteran Shadowbane Inquisitors as broken, tragic heroes, nearly crushed under the enormity of what they've been made to do in the name of the greater good and resigned that they will never know peace, even in the afterlife, but resolute and willing to die for what they believe in if it comes to that. Grey guards, on the other hand, are probably possessed of so much righteous anger that it insulates them somewhat. Oh, and the Shadowbane inquisitors can smite anyone they want, right out of the proverbial gates. It just doesn't stack with the paladin smite the way the GG's does.
The_Shaman 04-05-08, 07:12 PM	Not quite. Actually, I imagine veteran gray guards like that, not necessarily Shadowbanes. To be honest, Shadowbane inquisitors can be like what you said, but can be pretty much like standard paladins - if somewhat less bound by their code. OTOH, the way I understood the GG prestige is that it was for characters who, likewise, don't feel so bound by the paladin oaths. Remember, however, that by CScoundrel they still respect the same oaths and it is these oaths that determine if they stand or fall - until level 10, at least. Self-righteous fury may will probably be present to some degree in both classes, but I don't think either character has any monopoly on it. My biggest issue with Smite anything is that it allows you the option to use your divine-granted powers against any foe, no matter how vile or sacrosanct. That presumes a certain level of uncaring, both yours or your patrons. If you are willing to accept a power to hurt anyone, then how can innocent life be worth more than anything for you? If it were, you would not accept such power, nor use it. That's one of the biggest issues I have with the GG: in order to more efficiently hunt down evil characters, you learn how to smite CNs and CGs. Right, and the best way to hurt Levistus would be to kill his slaad underlings? The possession case is tricky. Technically, the person you are fighting is controlled by an outside force, by definition they are innocent: they can not be guilty of what they have no control of. They can be held responsible, but there's another thing. If they have been tempted, and accept this force, then they are no longer innocent. Killing an innocent may be unavoidable, but I can't help but that if you truly value them so much, you would do everything in your power - and try even that which is beyond it - to avoid it. Same way for, say, certain ways to get to the bad guys. If you value innocent lives over all, some roads are going to be closed to you - such as taking his daughter hostage (presuming she is innocent, of course - she might be as much of a b...h as him) or using other innocents, which he may care about, to get at him. That is why I had a problem with #1 and #2.