Greedy Healer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Greedy Healer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
jukar
07-16-05, 11:53 AM I'm playing my first CN character... or at least I was. Last session, the DM informed me my character has made the jump to CG. Now, this isn't a problem mechanically... the problem is that I ALWAYS end up playing a CG character. I was wondering what I could do to play this character better as a CN character-

Campaign Setting- Homebrew 3.5 D&D
Campaign Details- The situation: The desert nation of Uradon is slowly expanding, both politically and geographically. As the Uradon Empire grows in power, so too the desert creeps beyond it's ancient borders, spilling out into the greener lands around it, turning them to waste. This phenomenon, called the Creeping, knows no boundary- crossing rivers, mountains, even oceans, and leaving nothing but arid desert in it's wake.

The crunchy details: All core classes and Complete series allowed, also using the Expanded Psionics Handbook a great deal. Also using the Traits/Flaws and Action Points systems from Unearthed Arcana, and using houseruled versions of the Sorcerer and Shugenja classes that allow for bonus feats (metamagic and item creation for both, plus draconic feats for the sorc)

The character in question-

Kurt Albrecht (Classes: Favored Soul of Alaric 2/Sorcerer 2, planning on progressing into Mystic Theurge)
Alignment: Originally CN, but now CG.
Race: Human Male
Age: 24
Hair: Blonde
Eyes: Blue
Height: 6'1"
Weight: 170 lbs.

STR: 10
DEX: 12
CON: 18
INT: 16
WIS: 14
CHA: 21

Equipment: Masterwork Warhammer, Mithral Shirt, Amulet of Natural Armor +1, Cloak of Charisma + 2

Familiar: White wildcat familiar, named Weiss.
Trait: Greedy (homebrewed trait- +4 on Search checks when searching for valuables, +2 to Appraisal checks, and -4 on Diplomacy checks when dealing with merchants or matters of money)
Flaw: Hesitant (homebrewed flaw- -1 penalty on Initiative checks)

Deity: Alaric- a homebrewed deity. Alaric is the principle deity in the nation of Vonnegenland. Alaric is a deity of freedom and liberation, and hails from a plane called Utopia. Alaric's followers share a desire to see persecution and adveristy stamped out altogether, and believe that no person should be oppressed because of the circumstances of their birth, race, or human condition. Every generation, Alaric selects a person to serve as a leader for his clergy, a favored soul called the Pathcarver. The Pathcarver gives up their own happiness and freedom in order to help the oppressed gain their own.

Bio: Kurt was chosen at a young age as the Pathcarver of Alaric, but ran away because he did not want to sacrifice himself and give up his freedom for other people. Kurt believes that no one can have happiness and freedom handed to them, that you have to earn it for yourself. Kurt also has the talent for sorcery, and prefers to use those powers, although he will tap into his divine powers as needed to keep himself alive. He has often prayed to Alaric to revoke his abilities, but the deity has never acknowledged these requests. Kurt is unsure why he retains his ability despite turning his back on his responsibilities.

Kurt is exceptionally selfish, caring for little more than his own prosperity. His greed even outclasses his own instincts of self-preservation. Because of this, Kurt has been known to clash with others (party members included) over issues of money, division of loot, and expenditure of funds.

He is a powerful, if not somewhat unreliable ally. Kurt provides backup to his other companions (namely Mica, a half-giant psychic warrior, and Jigen, a shugenja from the island nation of Nihori), but often at the request of compensation. In battle, Kurt oftens runs to safety, leaving his companions to deal with the immediate threats, and then blasts the enemies from a safe distance with area of effect spells (often not caring who gets caught in the crossfire). If an ally needs healed, he has his familiar Weiss rush into the fray in order to deliver touch spells such as Cure Light Wounds.

Weiss is often Kurt's foil, and the sorcerer has suffered many a bite and scratch from the cat when he has said something out of line or acted in an embarassingly selfish way. Weiss and Kurt have a sort of love-hate relationship because of this.

Recently, Kurt separated from his companions in Olspir, the capital of Uradon Empire. However, when he recieved word of their capture, he snuck into the palace dungeons and freed them (for a nominal fee, of course :D ), and ended up becoming a wanted criminal for his actions. He is now trying to flee Uradon with his companions, and is frustrated at being caught up in such a complicated matter.

It was at this time that the DM said Kurt made the shift from CN to CG, because he went out of the way to save his allies.

Personally, as another DM, I don't think that sort of action makes him CG. After all, CN doesn't mean you can't have friends or do nice things for people.

However, I'm not the DM in this case, so I was wondering... is there anything I could do to roleplay him in a more CN way? I don't mind him growing a bit as a character, but I really wanted to play a ne'er do well for a change, instead of some irreverent hero. My DM states also that since Alaric is a CG deity, eventually Kurt will become CG anyway (my response to this is :eek: - since when do deities reformat the alignment and personality of the follower?). I've even told him that if it's inappropriate for Kurt to use his Favored Soul class features and spells as he stands now, he can feel free to revoke them- he's only a FS for story purposes anyway. However, he keeps giving me the okay on that too. I feel like I'm being forced to play a good character when I never intended to.

Anyway, any help would be appreciated.
Pryrates
07-17-05, 02:50 PM Id say just keep playing him how you were before your DM forced you to become CG. Im currently playing a CN character and your DM's reason for making you CG doesnt make much sense to me. My character has friends and he's willing to help them he just tend to also be a bit of an ***hole to them at the same time. He's also more then willing to cheat them out of money if he can but at the same time he has their back when they need it. Id say play your character as you see fit, if your DM says your not playing as a CG character then tell him you guess he just made an alignment shift to CN.
letsbefrank
07-18-05, 11:03 AM I'd agree that you are CN not CG.

The only thing i can think off is that maybe to be N for your DM you need to be a bit more E. So add something else into the mix other than greed and cowardice.

Killing prisoners who surrender (because they could hurt you later). Or point blank refusing to heal / help anyone that doesn't agree to further your own ambitions would also definately not be good.

Just pointing out that the party owes you big time and that you expect to get all the best stuff from now on should also help.

But at the end of the day if the rest of the party is good, and the DM wants a good campaign then he may just keep nudging you in that direction.
jukar
07-18-05, 02:52 PM I'd agree that you are CN not CG.

The only thing i can think off is that maybe to be N for your DM you need to be a bit more E. So add something else into the mix other than greed and cowardice.

Killing prisoners who surrender (because they could hurt you later). Or point blank refusing to heal / help anyone that doesn't agree to further your own ambitions would also definately not be good.

Just pointing out that the party owes you big time and that you expect to get all the best stuff from now on should also help.

But at the end of the day if the rest of the party is good, and the DM wants a good campaign then he may just keep nudging you in that direction.

Oh, believe me, I try. Example: Party wanders into the den of a mated pair of dire weasels and gets attacked. Party gets attacked by the weasels, and kills them in self defense, only to discover they are defending two dire weasel cubs. The other party members are saddened by this, and take the cubs with them as sort of an act of retribution for their blind violence- except for Kurt, who throws a fit about how none of them know how to care for an animal, that they will be a huge drain on their food supply (the party was at the moment stranded in the midst of a great mountain range with very limited supplies outside what was readily available in the environment for them to consume), and then argues that when they grow up they will inevitably attack someone. He then attempts to kill the cubs, saying that it would be foolish to keep them and best to put them out of their misery rather than let starve to death in the mountains. The other PCs and even his familiar object to this, and knock him on his ass.

Example 2: Party is in the middle of an ancient tomb. Kurt decides to do a little graverobbing, much to the protest of everyone else. He rationalizes his behavior, stating that they need the supplies to survive. The party reluctantly admits he is right (he has high Charisma, and is very persuasive), but when it is all said and done, Kurt divvies the treasure up 80/20, keeping 80 percent of the goods for himself because "if everyone else is so squeamish about stealing discarded goods, then they shouldn't object to getting a smaller share". This wasn't done out of greed on my part as a player, but because we are using the Greedy trait, and because Kurt also has the Draconic Heritage feat (White Dragon, to be specific), and is neurotically motivated by material gain. When a group from a local village see the activity in the tombs, they send a group of warriors to chase off the intruders. The rest of the party was glad to have been found, and was more than willing to lead (because that meant getting out of the tombs they had been lost in), but Kurt was unwilling to part with his newfound money, so he uses his magic to collapse the hallway near the entrance, thus sealing the warriors out and the party in. The party escaped through another exit, but not before kocking Kurt around a bit until he apologized and then having to trek through 4 more floors of dungeon to find a secret exit.

Other not so nice things include being somewhat abusive to his familiar (nothing cruel, just kicking him around a bit, swearing at him, and jokingly threatening to make him into a pair of mittens) and being stingy with the party's food supply, which he has been put in his charge. Of course, he does the occasional good things (such as rescuing his companions, and healing his companions)- his one redeeming quality is his hatred of persecution of others- in this campaign world, both half giants and sorcerers are treated badly and feared (both for different reasons), and Kurt becomes incensed by displays of intolerance towards people for the condition of their birth or their race- a cause he claims to shun as part of his forced position of Pathcarver, but ends up inadvertantly supporting whenever he gets too emotional.

All in all, I'd say I've been playing him pretty damn CN (at least to the best of my ability), but at the end of the day, there's a glaring CG on his character sheet. I think it may be because I have told my DM that although Kurt is disruptive and irresponsible, I would eventually like him to be redeemed and make a little turn-around, and I think he may be trying to fill that request- however, just saying he is CG doesn't actually mean he is, and he hasn't been put into a situation that would make him see the error of his selfishness yet. After hearing those suggestions, I'm just going to chalk it up to my DM trying to accomodate my background, and continue playing him as is.
Zorminster
07-19-05, 09:29 AM yea, your definately playing a CN "Free spirit". Take your PHB to the DM, shove it in his face, and tell him to list the reasons you are CG instead of CN. Then, you hand him a nice typed out list of reasons your actually CN. Make them short

1) Wouldnt care for the weasels- pain in the arse
2) Grave robbing - wanted to find some goods
3) Rescued party to complete quest for MY REWARD
4) Slapping the @#$@# outta the DM

If he is insistent that your CG, then go radically opposite just to **** him off go CE. Something i seem to recall is in the DMG talking about alignment shifts it talks about OVER TIME. One session (in your case, 1 ACTION) cannot make an alignment shift.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jukar 07-16-05, 11:53 AM	I'm playing my first CN character... or at least I was. Last session, the DM informed me my character has made the jump to CG. Now, this isn't a problem mechanically... the problem is that I ALWAYS end up playing a CG character. I was wondering what I could do to play this character better as a CN character- Campaign Setting- Homebrew 3.5 D&D Campaign Details- The situation: The desert nation of Uradon is slowly expanding, both politically and geographically. As the Uradon Empire grows in power, so too the desert creeps beyond it's ancient borders, spilling out into the greener lands around it, turning them to waste. This phenomenon, called the Creeping, knows no boundary- crossing rivers, mountains, even oceans, and leaving nothing but arid desert in it's wake. The crunchy details: All core classes and Complete series allowed, also using the Expanded Psionics Handbook a great deal. Also using the Traits/Flaws and Action Points systems from Unearthed Arcana, and using houseruled versions of the Sorcerer and Shugenja classes that allow for bonus feats (metamagic and item creation for both, plus draconic feats for the sorc) The character in question- Kurt Albrecht (Classes: Favored Soul of Alaric 2/Sorcerer 2, planning on progressing into Mystic Theurge) Alignment: Originally CN, but now CG. Race: Human Male Age: 24 Hair: Blonde Eyes: Blue Height: 6'1" Weight: 170 lbs. STR: 10 DEX: 12 CON: 18 INT: 16 WIS: 14 CHA: 21 Equipment: Masterwork Warhammer, Mithral Shirt, Amulet of Natural Armor +1, Cloak of Charisma + 2 Familiar: White wildcat familiar, named Weiss. Trait: Greedy (homebrewed trait- +4 on Search checks when searching for valuables, +2 to Appraisal checks, and -4 on Diplomacy checks when dealing with merchants or matters of money) Flaw: Hesitant (homebrewed flaw- -1 penalty on Initiative checks) Deity: Alaric- a homebrewed deity. Alaric is the principle deity in the nation of Vonnegenland. Alaric is a deity of freedom and liberation, and hails from a plane called Utopia. Alaric's followers share a desire to see persecution and adveristy stamped out altogether, and believe that no person should be oppressed because of the circumstances of their birth, race, or human condition. Every generation, Alaric selects a person to serve as a leader for his clergy, a favored soul called the Pathcarver. The Pathcarver gives up their own happiness and freedom in order to help the oppressed gain their own. Bio: Kurt was chosen at a young age as the Pathcarver of Alaric, but ran away because he did not want to sacrifice himself and give up his freedom for other people. Kurt believes that no one can have happiness and freedom handed to them, that you have to earn it for yourself. Kurt also has the talent for sorcery, and prefers to use those powers, although he will tap into his divine powers as needed to keep himself alive. He has often prayed to Alaric to revoke his abilities, but the deity has never acknowledged these requests. Kurt is unsure why he retains his ability despite turning his back on his responsibilities. Kurt is exceptionally selfish, caring for little more than his own prosperity. His greed even outclasses his own instincts of self-preservation. Because of this, Kurt has been known to clash with others (party members included) over issues of money, division of loot, and expenditure of funds. He is a powerful, if not somewhat unreliable ally. Kurt provides backup to his other companions (namely Mica, a half-giant psychic warrior, and Jigen, a shugenja from the island nation of Nihori), but often at the request of compensation. In battle, Kurt oftens runs to safety, leaving his companions to deal with the immediate threats, and then blasts the enemies from a safe distance with area of effect spells (often not caring who gets caught in the crossfire). If an ally needs healed, he has his familiar Weiss rush into the fray in order to deliver touch spells such as Cure Light Wounds. Weiss is often Kurt's foil, and the sorcerer has suffered many a bite and scratch from the cat when he has said something out of line or acted in an embarassingly selfish way. Weiss and Kurt have a sort of love-hate relationship because of this. Recently, Kurt separated from his companions in Olspir, the capital of Uradon Empire. However, when he recieved word of their capture, he snuck into the palace dungeons and freed them (for a nominal fee, of course :D ), and ended up becoming a wanted criminal for his actions. He is now trying to flee Uradon with his companions, and is frustrated at being caught up in such a complicated matter. It was at this time that the DM said Kurt made the shift from CN to CG, because he went out of the way to save his allies. Personally, as another DM, I don't think that sort of action makes him CG. After all, CN doesn't mean you can't have friends or do nice things for people. However, I'm not the DM in this case, so I was wondering... is there anything I could do to roleplay him in a more CN way? I don't mind him growing a bit as a character, but I really wanted to play a ne'er do well for a change, instead of some irreverent hero. My DM states also that since Alaric is a CG deity, eventually Kurt will become CG anyway (my response to this is :eek: - since when do deities reformat the alignment and personality of the follower?). I've even told him that if it's inappropriate for Kurt to use his Favored Soul class features and spells as he stands now, he can feel free to revoke them- he's only a FS for story purposes anyway. However, he keeps giving me the okay on that too. I feel like I'm being forced to play a good character when I never intended to. Anyway, any help would be appreciated.
Pryrates 07-17-05, 02:50 PM	Id say just keep playing him how you were before your DM forced you to become CG. Im currently playing a CN character and your DM's reason for making you CG doesnt make much sense to me. My character has friends and he's willing to help them he just tend to also be a bit of an ***hole to them at the same time. He's also more then willing to cheat them out of money if he can but at the same time he has their back when they need it. Id say play your character as you see fit, if your DM says your not playing as a CG character then tell him you guess he just made an alignment shift to CN.
letsbefrank 07-18-05, 11:03 AM	I'd agree that you are CN not CG. The only thing i can think off is that maybe to be N for your DM you need to be a bit more E. So add something else into the mix other than greed and cowardice. Killing prisoners who surrender (because they could hurt you later). Or point blank refusing to heal / help anyone that doesn't agree to further your own ambitions would also definately not be good. Just pointing out that the party owes you big time and that you expect to get all the best stuff from now on should also help. But at the end of the day if the rest of the party is good, and the DM wants a good campaign then he may just keep nudging you in that direction.
jukar 07-18-05, 02:52 PM	I'd agree that you are CN not CG. The only thing i can think off is that maybe to be N for your DM you need to be a bit more E. So add something else into the mix other than greed and cowardice. Killing prisoners who surrender (because they could hurt you later). Or point blank refusing to heal / help anyone that doesn't agree to further your own ambitions would also definately not be good. Just pointing out that the party owes you big time and that you expect to get all the best stuff from now on should also help. But at the end of the day if the rest of the party is good, and the DM wants a good campaign then he may just keep nudging you in that direction. Oh, believe me, I try. Example: Party wanders into the den of a mated pair of dire weasels and gets attacked. Party gets attacked by the weasels, and kills them in self defense, only to discover they are defending two dire weasel cubs. The other party members are saddened by this, and take the cubs with them as sort of an act of retribution for their blind violence- except for Kurt, who throws a fit about how none of them know how to care for an animal, that they will be a huge drain on their food supply (the party was at the moment stranded in the midst of a great mountain range with very limited supplies outside what was readily available in the environment for them to consume), and then argues that when they grow up they will inevitably attack someone. He then attempts to kill the cubs, saying that it would be foolish to keep them and best to put them out of their misery rather than let starve to death in the mountains. The other PCs and even his familiar object to this, and knock him on his ass. Example 2: Party is in the middle of an ancient tomb. Kurt decides to do a little graverobbing, much to the protest of everyone else. He rationalizes his behavior, stating that they need the supplies to survive. The party reluctantly admits he is right (he has high Charisma, and is very persuasive), but when it is all said and done, Kurt divvies the treasure up 80/20, keeping 80 percent of the goods for himself because "if everyone else is so squeamish about stealing discarded goods, then they shouldn't object to getting a smaller share". This wasn't done out of greed on my part as a player, but because we are using the Greedy trait, and because Kurt also has the Draconic Heritage feat (White Dragon, to be specific), and is neurotically motivated by material gain. When a group from a local village see the activity in the tombs, they send a group of warriors to chase off the intruders. The rest of the party was glad to have been found, and was more than willing to lead (because that meant getting out of the tombs they had been lost in), but Kurt was unwilling to part with his newfound money, so he uses his magic to collapse the hallway near the entrance, thus sealing the warriors out and the party in. The party escaped through another exit, but not before kocking Kurt around a bit until he apologized and then having to trek through 4 more floors of dungeon to find a secret exit. Other not so nice things include being somewhat abusive to his familiar (nothing cruel, just kicking him around a bit, swearing at him, and jokingly threatening to make him into a pair of mittens) and being stingy with the party's food supply, which he has been put in his charge. Of course, he does the occasional good things (such as rescuing his companions, and healing his companions)- his one redeeming quality is his hatred of persecution of others- in this campaign world, both half giants and sorcerers are treated badly and feared (both for different reasons), and Kurt becomes incensed by displays of intolerance towards people for the condition of their birth or their race- a cause he claims to shun as part of his forced position of Pathcarver, but ends up inadvertantly supporting whenever he gets too emotional. All in all, I'd say I've been playing him pretty damn CN (at least to the best of my ability), but at the end of the day, there's a glaring CG on his character sheet. I think it may be because I have told my DM that although Kurt is disruptive and irresponsible, I would eventually like him to be redeemed and make a little turn-around, and I think he may be trying to fill that request- however, just saying he is CG doesn't actually mean he is, and he hasn't been put into a situation that would make him see the error of his selfishness yet. After hearing those suggestions, I'm just going to chalk it up to my DM trying to accomodate my background, and continue playing him as is.
Zorminster 07-19-05, 09:29 AM	yea, your definately playing a CN "Free spirit". Take your PHB to the DM, shove it in his face, and tell him to list the reasons you are CG instead of CN. Then, you hand him a nice typed out list of reasons your actually CN. Make them short 1) Wouldnt care for the weasels- pain in the arse 2) Grave robbing - wanted to find some goods 3) Rescued party to complete quest for MY REWARD 4) Slapping the @#$@# outta the DM If he is insistent that your CG, then go radically opposite just to **** him off go CE. Something i seem to recall is in the DMG talking about alignment shifts it talks about OVER TIME. One session (in your case, 1 ACTION) cannot make an alignment shift.