Post/Author/DateTime	Post
texaskron 06-18-03, 01:22 PM	See subject. For some reason this strikes me as a fun idea... there's another thread about personality traits that set characters apart, what about concepts-in-themselves? --texaskron
LaegolasGreenleaf 06-18-03, 02:27 PM	A very good idea that really breaks the norm of all paladins.
The Deceiver 06-18-03, 02:32 PM	Smack stereotypes in the face. Thus shalt thou make thy characters memorable ;)
texaskron 06-18-03, 03:20 PM	Originally posted by LaegolasGreenleaf A very good idea that really breaks the norm of all paladins. Well, just think: half-orc with a heart of gold who has lots of inner beauty (Wis & high for a 1/2orc Cha) but with his obviously horrendous exterior. He's into courtly love and art and poetry and other aspects of chivalric beauty but also possesses a brutal rage just underneath the surface. That whole Beauty and the Beast duality thing. Maybe even a level of ex-Barbarian to represent this inner turmoil and the tempting power of letting go to the Beast and Chaos. Maybe throw in an aspiring Cavalier feel (not necessarily the PrC) or a kinda Black Knight (not a blackguard) that fights for a lady's honor... only to be found out as a half-orc. You know, all those stereotypes about someone breaking all the stereotypes. :)
PyroMancyr 06-18-03, 04:18 PM	the Paladin rule was one I never really liked to begin with.....I personally think that all gods should have paladins... and the alignments of the paladins should match the gods they serve..... think on this.. a paladin of Vecna leading an army of Undead against an army led by your Half-Orc paladin of Sune.... can see the ugliness brewing... and it is good.....:cool:
texaskron 06-18-03, 04:48 PM	Thing is though, as you are probably aware, Sune has Paladins (F&P pg. 65), so its more of being a different kind than is expected for a paladin into defending things of beauty. Paladins of every alignment can be fun and a lot of people have made variants on the boards and in published stuff. I like the idea of them being prestige classes, too. But within the core rules and the FR setting playing a half-orc pally of Sune seems to be calling me.... :)
PyroMancyr 06-18-03, 05:26 PM	hmmm... you know, i think i can live with the paladin bein made into a prestige class....would make things that much more interesting.... expanding on my last post... that paladin of Vecna being perhaps, a lich? with an skeletal horse...or a Bodak horse... as a mount... vs. a half-orc barbarian Paladin of Sune....give him maybe a sabertooth tiger.... or a dire wolf...as a mount... yea..i think that could work.......and maybe give my own campaign a new twist or two.....
LaegolasGreenleaf 06-19-03, 05:33 PM	Wouldn't it be a Blackguard of Vecna?
Arilou_skiff 06-20-03, 09:19 AM	Remember, orcish (and half-orcish) beauty probably has different standards than human beauty.
PyroMancyr 06-20-03, 10:21 PM	Originally posted by LaegolasGreenleaf Wouldn't it be a Blackguard of Vecna? Not really.....I know a Blackguard does gain abilities with the more Paladin levels it had before it fell....and i do see the similarities... what i also see is that there are some Paladin-like abilities that are barred from a Blackguard who holds no (or few) paladin levels this would essentially BE a Paladin of Vecna..with the same abilities...tweaked appropriately of course.....as a normal Paladin...with no barred abilities...and no prerequisites aside from what it takes to become a Paladin of <insert god of choice here> will it eliminate Blackguards from the game? dunno...maybe...it depends on the DM....
KaeYoss 06-21-03, 01:00 PM	I don't think Sune will allow ugly orcs as her Paladins, but that might only be my PoV.
PyroMancyr 06-21-03, 04:11 PM	Originally posted by KaeYoss I don't think Sune will allow ugly orcs as her Paladins, but that might only be my PoV. Well, KaeYoss, Arilou_skiff did have a point when she said: "Remember, orcish (and half-orcish) beauty probably has different standards than human beauty." it is all in the POV of the race....and...like you said, it might only be my POV...but, I've always played Sune, when I'm DMing, as not caring what the outer skin looks like...and i did have one Paladin character in a game I was running..butt-ugly..shrek ugly.... but with this chr that you wouldna believe by lookin at him
KaeYoss 06-22-03, 04:43 PM	Orc beauty might be different from human beauty, but I doubt Sune cares, for she's not an orc deity. While people who are only beautiful within may worship sune, I doubt that she will allow a member of her clergy be less than stunningly beautiful (by human standards), for everything else is bad PR.
Eldermount 06-23-03, 01:54 AM	While people who are only beautiful within may worship sune, I doubt that she will allow a member of her clergy be less than stunningly beautiful (by human standards), for everything else is bad PR. I'd have problems seeing a half-orc paladin of Sune for the same reason. However, I could see it with stipulations. The half-orc, being raised among humans, wishes to look more human. He prays to Sune to make him less ugly. Sune takes pity on him, and tells him that if he proves himself to be a worthy champion, she'll grant him his desire. In the meantime, he must follow one simple rule. He must wear a visored helmet, and always hide his face. Only his closest companions and the church of Sune are exempt from this. Then, if and when the DM deems it appropriate, one day when he removes his helmet, his companions can react in awe that he has become handsome.
PyroMancyr 06-23-03, 04:18 AM	we know Sune is not an orcish deity... but, whats to stop a human barbarian tribe from worshiping Gruumsh? or halflings worshipping Garl Glittergold? or even Drow worshipping Pelor? thing is..at least this is how I, and any other DM that I played with, have portrayed the Gods: the Gods are above mortal understanding of beauty...or for that matter, anything materialistic...therefore, if a servant, a worshipper, shows that they are devout in their heart, which is what the Gods do see above their outer coverings, then they would be welcome into the fold.... From the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book: Sune Dogma: Beauty issues from the core of one's being and reveals one's true face to the world, fair or foul. as for the paladin question... Chr does not always translate to physical attractiveness...by human, elvish, dwarven, or orcish standards....one of the 2nd ed rules we used was treating physical attractiveness as a separate stat...comliness... remember the Shrek-ugly Paladin I mentioned in an earlier post? that's how it happened.... amazing Chr (think it was a 17 or 18)....and a botched comliness roll (let's leave it as less than 6).... and it proved to have very interesting RP reprecussions... of course, i can see a half-orc paladin wanting to cover up, for no other reason than past experience....racial bias....perhaps a village believing that he killed and stole the trappings he wears that marks him as a servant of Sune...just because he is not what they would expect a paladin of any human God, much less Sune, would look like... and that is the big thing...yes, he is half orc...but the other half is human...so why not let one who has truely mastered his feral side become a servant to Sune?
KaeYoss 06-23-03, 06:35 AM	Originally posted by KaeYoss I don't think Sune will allow ugly orcs as her Paladins, but that might only be my PoV. As I said: It's my opinion. But you can always create a weird story and character background ("weird" as in "good weird", not in "bad weird") to make that one work. But I do think that he will have some problems with people, and with other clerics and paladins of sune (except those in the very order he serves, for they might know him better). It can indeed be interesting, but it's not exactly my shtick.
texaskron 06-24-03, 01:18 AM	Does anyone reading this thread have Savage Species? Flip to the back where the Half-Ogre is... Half-Ogres get a penalty to Charisma and such but take a gander at the Half-Ogre pic. Now, is that a guy that has low charisma or of someone who just looks a little odd? Looking at it made me think that this particular Half-Ogre was a goof-ball jock type. Hardly worthy of the fear expressed by the man with his hand on the hilt of his blade. Now, the Half-Orc would be on the same wavelength, at character creation the highest stats rolled would go to Charisma, Wisdom, and Strength, in that order. Here's a rough sketch of the idea: As for a background, maybe he was orphaned and taken in by a few devotees of Sune. As crafts people and ardent followers they would have exposed him to the worship ways of their deity. The local temple would be familar with the circumstances of his birth and abandonment but would still harbor some misgivings no matter how much of a good-hearted loner the young half-orc would be.... Due to his strength, purity of heart, deep sense of justice and devotion to Sune, and the fact that he acted as a Cyrano for a young would-be, but tongue-tied, lover (a successful one, too), not to mention his nearly daily visits to the temple, led his parents and the local clergy to decide to send the young half-orc off to paladin training. There, he was derided by his fellow trainees, but did not lose heart. With acts of courage, his perseverance in the face of obvious obstacles, and such he quickly was acclaimed by the more liberal members of his order. But, he also made enemies. ... Both ashamed and mindful of his appearance, after graduation, the half-orc asked to be given a roaming billet, one that allowed him to travel guarding dignitaries of the faith. Of late however, he has been selected by his order to accompany a party of adventurers in the retrieval of an ancient, and beautiful, sculpture that was stolen from Sune's temple by a church dedicated to "deity X". ---- Thoughts?
PyroMancyr 06-24-03, 02:50 AM	Well.... nicely done... I'll hae to reread it again later on to see if there's anything missing........