Help developing Elven Necromancer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Help developing Elven Necromancer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gralphid Blackstripe
12-03-05, 07:11 PM So I really like making characteers that defy stereotypes, so not to long ago I thought I would make an elven necromancer. I have played several sessions with him and while he is interesting, I am coming to feel he is somewhat flat, and so would appreciate help fleshing him out. Here's what I have so far.

He has an Int of 18, Wis of 10, Cha of 8. He's really smart, but doesn't interact well with "normals"
He thinks that positive and negative energy are neutral forces, and thinks people who eschew one weaken themselves. Whether this is actually the way the world works is unclear, and rather irelevant.
He thinks most mortals (PC races) are ignorant fools.
Unlike other elves, he doesn't see "life" as inherently valuable, only what is done with it.

Anyways, so far I have been playing him as a dark, brooding character. I intended to play him as a basically good person who is cynical about humanity (not just humans, elves, dwarves, etc as well), and believes that the ends justify the means, as well as using powers most consider uncomfortable at best. I also imagined him to be something of a misunderstood good person - he does evil things, and is always feared or mistrusted, but deep inside he is basically good.
what's been lacking is the core (deep) inside him that makes him fight for good, and perhaps can come out in roleplaying. Any ideas as to how to flesh out the above character to make him deeper? Note that ideas have to be somewhat subtle (or at least not immediately apparent), since I've already started playing him and don't want to mess with the continuity of the story.

Thanks in advacne for the help!
Morka
12-05-05, 11:27 AM This sound for a great Neutral Character. You might say he's good, but necromancy (at least, what D&D is making of necromancy) is usually evil. I know a character in a fantasy book who is a good necromancer, but it's more fluff than really creating undeads. For example, when she cast an Healing spell, a spirit appears and actually heals the injured character, or when she cast a divination spell, it's a ghost who appears and answers her questions. In fact, she's more a Spirit Shaman. I know those examples aren't good in your case since you already started to play the character.

What are your character usual tactics?

You could have the ghost of a friend or parent who appears from time to time to give you an advice. You could also cast Speak with death every time you see a dead animal, just to know how it was killed; if it was killed for a wrong reason, then try to find who killed the animal and give him a correction.
The Sinister Rogue
12-07-05, 04:30 AM The elven necro wants to make the world a better place. But can only look upon this in the big picture. So that's why he think of mortals as rather ignorant fools, because they only look after themselfs or there kin at best. This also explains why he uses dark powers: The means justify the ends when making a paradise on earth.
But this approach also makes him dark, brooding character. Because he has (not yet) the powers to bring paradise to all. This understanding annoys him and makes him sad.

Nice character and good luck!
Gralphid Blackstripe
12-07-05, 07:49 PM Character's usual tactics are casting Fear or blindness spells, or firing my longbow when out of spells.

Sinister Rogue - I like it. Thanks.

Any other ideas?
Morka
12-08-05, 03:52 PM Character's usual tactics are casting Fear or blindness spells, or firing my longbow when out of spells.

Sinister Rogue - I like it. Thanks.

Any other ideas?

I think as long as you are not actively animating corpse and creating undeads, you can pretend to be good without any problems.
Pan_Ai_Khan
12-09-05, 08:56 AM The only Elven Necromancer I've ever played was Drow, and evil to the core.
His only reason for aligning with the rest of the party was survival - in vowing to serve them and their causes, he had their promise not to cut him down where he stood.
A character can fight Evil without being Good in themselves. Where a Good character thinks "One less Evil in the world" after a victory, an Evil character thinks "One less Rival in the world". The result is the same - only the motivation changes.
Eidolon Faer
12-09-05, 09:13 PM Given that you're an Elf of rather scholarly bent, the best way to explain using dark magic to fight for good is that there's something FAR WORSE out there, and you're using the most effective tools at your disposal to fight it, despite the cost to your own conscience and soul.

Necromancers are extremely effective at finding things out. Perhaps the lore you seek to oppose the darkness was guarded from conventional divination and could only be extracted by interrogating the dead.

*shrug* The broody dark hero is, of course, nothing new. Maybe you can give it a bit of spice by moving away from Salvatore and a bit more towards Lovecraft.

On that note, you might consider looking at the Keeper of the Cerulean Sign PrC from Lords of Madness. Legions of the walking dead are actually a reasonable tool with which to oppose the Tsochari and their master, the Nine-Tongued Worm.

(edit)

If it helps, imagine knowing about something so scary that the act of creating a vampire and attempting to bind it to your will actually starts to feel reasonable as a way to fight it instead of being suicidally foolhardy.
Setherial
12-12-05, 09:38 AM if I were to make a good necromancer I would start with some basic questions like what on earth drives a sane person to start messing around with rotting corpses and use them as companions ?

Since I'm an Eberron player I could use the war as a good reason. During war people are forced to research paths they would normally not concider. Rising your fallen enemies and have them fight their former allies is a valuable thing to any commander. Getting information from the dead can be crucial. Even healing is the domain of the necromancer, when all else fails one who understands death is capable of prolonging life.

Over time (centuries in case of an elf) this character could have come accustomed to being around death, this would somehow have nummed his senses. He reacts differently to death then normal individuals but it doesn't really reflect on his alignment.
He realises now the war is over his trade is shunned and despised, his services are no longer needed or even wanted and he must search for another path in life (adventuring). He will hide his past as much as possible as well as his particular skills dealing with necromancy.
When the need is high however he will use his arts to protect himself and those around him once more.

This all would make this character very secretive and excentric. He knows he doesn't fit in but he tries to adjust....
sauriel
12-13-05, 08:49 AM if u need information on a necromancer of any kind i am whats good right now.
u said your character sees + and - energy as opposite ends of a spectrum which is what keeps him in the middle right. well he feels this way because through his studies hes come to see some of the true horrors of true necromancy. he now decides to use the powers of death to fight death simply it is againts his own beliefs to have such vile entitys in existance. this roll of fight evil with evil works over a long time making it good for an elf. but if this isn't much help sorry im used to my character who is an evil necromancer(epic level :king:) well if u ever need help with an evil character e-mailo me at bigpopwood@aol.com
The Brat Prince
12-13-05, 02:06 PM As an Eberron player, any time i think of Elf+Necromancy my mind jumps straight to Aerenal.

The Aereni elves are by and large NG, but still practice Necromancy to their heart's delight. Why? They believe that keeping their ancestors around as Undying (rather than Undead) they are honoring them and allowing them to ascend to a higher state of being through undeath. Check out the rules for Undying in the BoED or the ECS if you like the idea.

I enjoy it because it lets you be a good guy while still summoning legions of shambling zombies to your aid. 'Cept your Zombies are nice zombies. THe kind that would bludgeon a drow to death with its own severed arms, then stop to pet a kitten. Then more bludgeoning.
Setherial
12-14-05, 07:35 AM As an Eberron player, any time i think of Elf+Necromancy my mind jumps straight to Aerenal.

The Aereni elves are by and large NG, but still practice Necromancy to their heart's delight. Why? They believe that keeping their ancestors around as Undying (rather than Undead) they are honoring them and allowing them to ascend to a higher state of being through undeath. Check out the rules for Undying in the BoED or the ECS if you like the idea.

I enjoy it because it lets you be a good guy while still summoning legions of shambling zombies to your aid. 'Cept your Zombies are nice zombies. THe kind that would bludgeon a drow to death with its own severed arms, then stop to pet a kitten. Then more bludgeoning.

The elves in eberron dispise the use of negative energy. Only a few are selected to become Undying and it's nothing like raising a legion of shambling zombies to do your bidding. I think you should not confuse the two if you want to follow the true spirit of Eberron.
VedicDragon
12-14-05, 10:57 AM Wow....

I had a Moon Elf Necromancer "Jagaast Iz'Meryl Kanan" who was exactly like what you are going for.

He didn't relish the use of Undead though. He fit more of the "White Necromancer" philosophy (not to be confused with the Prestige Class from Ravenloft) . . . Use Undead only to harm your enemies, then lay them to rest. Destroy them whenever you can . . .
He had a kit in 2nd edition rules, called "Lichslayer" which pretty much summed up his character concept perfectly . . .

That and most importantly, in 2nd Ed he was a specialist in all manner of spells that *SNUFF*ed the life out of his foe.

Finger of Death, Cloudkill, Power Word-Kill, Death Spell, etc.

Come to think of it, maybe that's more "Grey" necromancer, at that . . . .

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gralphid Blackstripe 12-03-05, 07:11 PM	So I really like making characteers that defy stereotypes, so not to long ago I thought I would make an elven necromancer. I have played several sessions with him and while he is interesting, I am coming to feel he is somewhat flat, and so would appreciate help fleshing him out. Here's what I have so far. He has an Int of 18, Wis of 10, Cha of 8. He's really smart, but doesn't interact well with "normals" He thinks that positive and negative energy are neutral forces, and thinks people who eschew one weaken themselves. Whether this is actually the way the world works is unclear, and rather irelevant. He thinks most mortals (PC races) are ignorant fools. Unlike other elves, he doesn't see "life" as inherently valuable, only what is done with it. Anyways, so far I have been playing him as a dark, brooding character. I intended to play him as a basically good person who is cynical about humanity (not just humans, elves, dwarves, etc as well), and believes that the ends justify the means, as well as using powers most consider uncomfortable at best. I also imagined him to be something of a misunderstood good person - he does evil things, and is always feared or mistrusted, but deep inside he is basically good. what's been lacking is the core (deep) inside him that makes him fight for good, and perhaps can come out in roleplaying. Any ideas as to how to flesh out the above character to make him deeper? Note that ideas have to be somewhat subtle (or at least not immediately apparent), since I've already started playing him and don't want to mess with the continuity of the story. Thanks in advacne for the help!
Morka 12-05-05, 11:27 AM	This sound for a great Neutral Character. You might say he's good, but necromancy (at least, what D&D is making of necromancy) is usually evil. I know a character in a fantasy book who is a good necromancer, but it's more fluff than really creating undeads. For example, when she cast an Healing spell, a spirit appears and actually heals the injured character, or when she cast a divination spell, it's a ghost who appears and answers her questions. In fact, she's more a Spirit Shaman. I know those examples aren't good in your case since you already started to play the character. What are your character usual tactics? You could have the ghost of a friend or parent who appears from time to time to give you an advice. You could also cast Speak with death every time you see a dead animal, just to know how it was killed; if it was killed for a wrong reason, then try to find who killed the animal and give him a correction.
The Sinister Rogue 12-07-05, 04:30 AM	The elven necro wants to make the world a better place. But can only look upon this in the big picture. So that's why he think of mortals as rather ignorant fools, because they only look after themselfs or there kin at best. This also explains why he uses dark powers: The means justify the ends when making a paradise on earth. But this approach also makes him dark, brooding character. Because he has (not yet) the powers to bring paradise to all. This understanding annoys him and makes him sad. Nice character and good luck!
Gralphid Blackstripe 12-07-05, 07:49 PM	Character's usual tactics are casting Fear or blindness spells, or firing my longbow when out of spells. Sinister Rogue - I like it. Thanks. Any other ideas?
Morka 12-08-05, 03:52 PM	Character's usual tactics are casting Fear or blindness spells, or firing my longbow when out of spells. Sinister Rogue - I like it. Thanks. Any other ideas? I think as long as you are not actively animating corpse and creating undeads, you can pretend to be good without any problems.
Pan_Ai_Khan 12-09-05, 08:56 AM	The only Elven Necromancer I've ever played was Drow, and evil to the core. His only reason for aligning with the rest of the party was survival - in vowing to serve them and their causes, he had their promise not to cut him down where he stood. A character can fight Evil without being Good in themselves. Where a Good character thinks "One less Evil in the world" after a victory, an Evil character thinks "One less Rival in the world". The result is the same - only the motivation changes.
Eidolon Faer 12-09-05, 09:13 PM	Given that you're an Elf of rather scholarly bent, the best way to explain using dark magic to fight for good is that there's something FAR WORSE out there, and you're using the most effective tools at your disposal to fight it, despite the cost to your own conscience and soul. Necromancers are extremely effective at finding things out. Perhaps the lore you seek to oppose the darkness was guarded from conventional divination and could only be extracted by interrogating the dead. shrug The broody dark hero is, of course, nothing new. Maybe you can give it a bit of spice by moving away from Salvatore and a bit more towards Lovecraft. On that note, you might consider looking at the Keeper of the Cerulean Sign PrC from Lords of Madness. Legions of the walking dead are actually a reasonable tool with which to oppose the Tsochari and their master, the Nine-Tongued Worm. (edit) If it helps, imagine knowing about something so scary that the act of creating a vampire and attempting to bind it to your will actually starts to feel reasonable as a way to fight it instead of being suicidally foolhardy.
Setherial 12-12-05, 09:38 AM	if I were to make a good necromancer I would start with some basic questions like what on earth drives a sane person to start messing around with rotting corpses and use them as companions ? Since I'm an Eberron player I could use the war as a good reason. During war people are forced to research paths they would normally not concider. Rising your fallen enemies and have them fight their former allies is a valuable thing to any commander. Getting information from the dead can be crucial. Even healing is the domain of the necromancer, when all else fails one who understands death is capable of prolonging life. Over time (centuries in case of an elf) this character could have come accustomed to being around death, this would somehow have nummed his senses. He reacts differently to death then normal individuals but it doesn't really reflect on his alignment. He realises now the war is over his trade is shunned and despised, his services are no longer needed or even wanted and he must search for another path in life (adventuring). He will hide his past as much as possible as well as his particular skills dealing with necromancy. When the need is high however he will use his arts to protect himself and those around him once more. This all would make this character very secretive and excentric. He knows he doesn't fit in but he tries to adjust....
sauriel 12-13-05, 08:49 AM	if u need information on a necromancer of any kind i am whats good right now. u said your character sees + and - energy as opposite ends of a spectrum which is what keeps him in the middle right. well he feels this way because through his studies hes come to see some of the true horrors of true necromancy. he now decides to use the powers of death to fight death simply it is againts his own beliefs to have such vile entitys in existance. this roll of fight evil with evil works over a long time making it good for an elf. but if this isn't much help sorry im used to my character who is an evil necromancer(epic level :king:) well if u ever need help with an evil character e-mailo me at bigpopwood@aol.com
The Brat Prince 12-13-05, 02:06 PM	As an Eberron player, any time i think of Elf+Necromancy my mind jumps straight to Aerenal. The Aereni elves are by and large NG, but still practice Necromancy to their heart's delight. Why? They believe that keeping their ancestors around as Undying (rather than Undead) they are honoring them and allowing them to ascend to a higher state of being through undeath. Check out the rules for Undying in the BoED or the ECS if you like the idea. I enjoy it because it lets you be a good guy while still summoning legions of shambling zombies to your aid. 'Cept your Zombies are nice zombies. THe kind that would bludgeon a drow to death with its own severed arms, then stop to pet a kitten. Then more bludgeoning.
Setherial 12-14-05, 07:35 AM	As an Eberron player, any time i think of Elf+Necromancy my mind jumps straight to Aerenal. The Aereni elves are by and large NG, but still practice Necromancy to their heart's delight. Why? They believe that keeping their ancestors around as Undying (rather than Undead) they are honoring them and allowing them to ascend to a higher state of being through undeath. Check out the rules for Undying in the BoED or the ECS if you like the idea. I enjoy it because it lets you be a good guy while still summoning legions of shambling zombies to your aid. 'Cept your Zombies are nice zombies. THe kind that would bludgeon a drow to death with its own severed arms, then stop to pet a kitten. Then more bludgeoning. The elves in eberron dispise the use of negative energy. Only a few are selected to become Undying and it's nothing like raising a legion of shambling zombies to do your bidding. I think you should not confuse the two if you want to follow the true spirit of Eberron.
VedicDragon 12-14-05, 10:57 AM	Wow.... I had a Moon Elf Necromancer "Jagaast Iz'Meryl Kanan" who was exactly like what you are going for. He didn't relish the use of Undead though. He fit more of the "White Necromancer" philosophy (not to be confused with the Prestige Class from Ravenloft) . . . Use Undead only to harm your enemies, then lay them to rest. Destroy them whenever you can . . . He had a kit in 2nd edition rules, called "Lichslayer" which pretty much summed up his character concept perfectly . . . That and most importantly, in 2nd Ed he was a specialist in all manner of spells that SNUFFed the life out of his foe. Finger of Death, Cloudkill, Power Word-Kill, Death Spell, etc. Come to think of it, maybe that's more "Grey" necromancer, at that . . . .