Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gavinfoxx 05-16-07, 10:55 PM	Hi there, I was looking for any alternative Lawful Good (no paladins of freedom...) codes of conduct for my halfling paladin that might be on the boards or in some books somewhere.. Could anyone help either point me towards some alternative codes of conduct for paladins, or perhaps help me come up with one here or changes to the basic code of conduct? This is for a halfling paladin using a custom PrC class that specializes in being a mounted combatant over the more traditional abilities.
Westbound 05-16-07, 11:33 PM	DMs can add to the Code of Conduct as described in the PHB as they see fit for their campaign. For instance, a DM could proscribe a code of Chastity and Celebacy in the code, which aren't specifically mentioned in the Paladin section in the PHB. So, instead of alternate codes of conduct, which, to my knowledge, there aren't any, there could be strictures that the Paladin must obey, depending on his or her faith and the order which they may serve. For example, in my present campaign setting based on ancient Greece and Rome, there is the Order of Aegis. There are only five Paladins in this order in the entire world, and a PC may become one of them (currently, in my game, there is one). In the Olympian Pantheon (Zeus, Hera, Apollo), Athena only employs Paladins. In this world, most people worship the entire pantheon - Athena requires her Paladins only to communicate and worship her. This isn't to say that a Paladin should besmirch or desecrate another Olympian's temple, it's that the Paladin is required only to pay homage to Athena due to the unique powers she bestows upon her special agents. This can and does cause problems to the Paladins, who may incur the wrath of Zeus or Apollo as a result. Because of this, a Paladin actually has to operate with some degree of secrecy. When they pray, they must use a shroud, or conceal themselves in their shields. To honor Athena, they may not drink wine at night, and they cannot become intoxicated. Nor can they visit brothels. They can marry, but it must be approved by Athena herself.
CrimsonDeath 05-17-07, 03:19 AM	In one campaign I'm in right now, rather than using the generic Paladin code, each Paladin must choose ten tenets that he always follows, like "Exterminate the undead" or "Show kindness toward children". Not sure what the code of the Paladin in the party is, though...
Terjon of the Blue Rose 05-18-07, 02:20 AM	Yer a halfling so there a few nice options that come with this. I must see the world. For without knowledge of the greater world I can not know how I fit in it. (halflings are great travelers) I will defend hearth and home, family and friend, stranger and ally. (halflings tend to put a heavy emphasis on family but a paladin can not choose to defend only those he cares for) I will never assume that my way is the only way. For I know that others must see my ways as strangely as I see theirs. (again halflings are great travelers) I will never allow the weak to be the victim of the strong. (halflings are little folk and occasionally targeted by bigger, stronger ones) A halflings ideals are what to look at if you want to make one a paladin. Good and evil aren't as important to them as things like family so focus on defending the things you character considers important.
The Ubbergeek 05-19-07, 06:25 PM	It's anyway a great code for any kind of good-hearted halfling warrior, for sure. :)
Gavinfoxx 05-20-07, 10:38 PM	Well I posted this in another thread on the same topic, so I thought I would post it here: okay, this is the part of the main code that mentions specific actions, rather than, for example, more generic ethics: "Additionally, a paladin’s code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents." The "act with honor" part is interesting. Would an herbal drink that renders someone unconscious be a poison? What if you want to disable but not permanalty damage someone? Most poisons are nonlethal... should the paladin be barred from using lethal poisons instead? Or perhaps barred from using poisons _in combat_? What about lying? A paladin's word should be strong as adamantine, but what about other forms of deception? Changing "no lying" to something like "A paladin's word is her honor, and a Paladin must not break her word." This still allows for a paladin to be part of some activity that uses deception, as long as she does not have to break her word. What is defined as cheating? Is attacking someone who is flat footed with a sneak attack cheating? Is laying in ambush cheating? How about Coup De Grace on a foe? I think a paladin should be able to ambush someone, under certain circumstances. A paladin should at least be able to ambush undead and evil outsiders... and CDG should be allowed on evil foes that haven't surrendered, even if they are helpless... So if we are watering down the part that mentions specific actions, is there any part we can make stronger? Perhaps something against stealing? Something about refraining from sexual misconduct? How about refrain from intoxicants (in many societies, this means you can have the weak beer that is often the only thing thats pure and safe to drink, aside from water that has been purified. its wine or other harder drinks that you can't have...but a paladin who is immune to disease should always choose water if available...)? Maybe something requiring to guard the way of life that she is a part of against all who threaten it? How about something that requires her to work towards charity and donate some of her resources to charity? Ohh, I know, there should be a restriction on denying any soul its afterlife, either by destroying the soul or putting it in a limbo or anything like that... and it should mention something about when it is and isnt appropriate to take prisoners... and what to do if she hears her party members say they need to commit or have committed a crime... people can have a pretty rough past in many groups!
Terjon of the Blue Rose 05-21-07, 12:04 AM	The "act with honor" part is interesting. Would an herbal drink that renders someone unconscious be a poison? What if you want to disable but not permanalty damage someone? Most poisons are nonlethal... should the paladin be barred from using lethal poisons instead? Or perhaps barred from using poisons _in combat_? Actually I'd be more willing to allow a paladin to use poison in combat then out of it. In combat poison is a tool, just like a flaming weapon. Out of combat poison is a dirty, underhanded trick which is used by those afraid to confront a foe directly. Of course non-lethals like drow sleep poison should be preferred in either situation. What about lying? A paladin's word should be strong as adamantine, but what about other forms of deception? Changing "no lying" to something like "A paladin's word is her honor, and a Paladin must not break her word." This still allows for a paladin to be part of some activity that uses deception, as long as she does not have to break her word. Personally I've never considered lying to be against a paladin's code. A lie can often be praise and the truth can cause grevious wounds. A paladin should be able to disguise themselves to enter the castle if it mean bypassing innocent guards who they would otherwise have to slaughter to by-pass. What is defined as cheating? Is attacking someone who is flat footed with a sneak attack cheating? Is laying in ambush cheating? How about Coup De Grace on a foe? I think a paladin should be able to ambush someone, under certain circumstances. A paladin should at least be able to ambush undead and evil outsiders... and CDG should be allowed on evil foes that haven't surrendered, even if they are helpless... Combat is a unique situation most paladin should try to avoid save on a few unredeamable foes such as outsiders and undead. Ambushes are perfectly acceptable but a paladin tends to use them to gain an advantageous position and force surrender, thus avoiding combat all together. As for SA and CDC these are combat manuevers. When you are fighting for a worthy cause one does not hold back their full strength unless the foe yields. CDC is a bit of a stretch unless there is a risk of that foe getting back up and combat has not yet ended but more than one paladin has play judge, jury, and executioner without losing their power (of course the judging has to be fair and the captured foe should be given a chance at redemption or defending itself against the charges). So if we are watering down the part that mentions specific actions, is there any part we can make stronger? Not sure we're really watering anything down... Perhaps something against stealing? Something about refraining from sexual misconduct? How about refrain from intoxicants (in many societies, this means you can have the weak beer that is often the only thing thats pure and safe to drink, aside from water that has been purified. its wine or other harder drinks that you can't have...but a paladin who is immune to disease should always choose water if available...)? Maybe something requiring to guard the way of life that she is a part of against all who threaten it? How about something that requires her to work towards charity and donate some of her resources to charity? Ohh, I know, there should be a restriction on denying any soul its afterlife, either by destroying the soul or putting it in a limbo or anything like that... Theft is certainly against the rules but you need to draw a line between theft and looting... the primary source of adventurer funding. Sexual misconduct? Well generally acting with honor and having good intention are sufficient but its fairly easy to imagine a stricter section of code there. Generally paladins avoid strong intoxicants because, while they can't control their behavior under the infuence, they are still responsible for it. Almost every means of denying a soul the afterlife is evil. Charity is a part of what the paladin does but they usually prefer big acts... things like slay a dragon or demon without expectation of recompense. and it should mention something about when it is and isnt appropriate to take prisoners... and what to do if she hears her party members say they need to commit or have committed a crime... people can have a pretty rough past in many groups! Paladins want others to be good. Paladins know that others are rarely as good as they themselves are. Generally speaking I view redemption as a big part of the paladins cause. Working with someone who has committed a crime? Fine, but make sure they don't relapse. Taking prisoners? Not required but its prefreable to ending the life of a man who only resorted to stealing because he needed money to feed his family... listen to their story and if you believe them let them face proper consequences. If not... well paladins can be pretty harsh on evil-doers. The worst is when the party member needs to commit a crime though. This one can easily lead to a paladin splitting from and working directly against other party members. Unless your dealing with very unique circumstances a paladin does not support criminal action.
Westbound 05-21-07, 12:32 PM	The "act with honor" part is interesting. Would an herbal drink that renders someone unconscious be a poison? What if you want to disable but not permanalty damage someone? Most poisons are nonlethal... should the paladin be barred from using lethal poisons instead? Or perhaps barred from using poisons _in combat_? Though, like Terjon, I wouldn't let poisons become some sort of Code infraction, use of poisons against certain foes would certainly be dishonorable. For instance, using poisons against those that aren't evil, or aren't monstrous, like simple human guards, would be dishonorable. If the Paladin was involved in a duel, the use of poisons there would certainly be a Code infraction. But poisons used against, say, evil dragons would not at all be a Code infraction. It's merely a quick means to dispatch a horrible monster. To render someone unconscious wouldn't be a Code infraction. If you've got to put down B.A. Baracus because he hates flying, that's fine. So long as you tell him you're putting him out so the party can fly. What about lying? A paladin's word should be strong as adamantine, but what about other forms of deception? Changing "no lying" to something like "A paladin's word is her honor, and a Paladin must not break her word." This still allows for a paladin to be part of some activity that uses deception, as long as she does not have to break her word. Personally I've never considered lying to be against a paladin's code. A lie can often be praise and the truth can cause grevious wounds. A paladin should be able to disguise themselves to enter the castle if it mean bypassing innocent guards who they would otherwise have to slaughter to by-pass. A Paladin should never lie except to dishonorable and evil foes. Doing so is a Code infraction, but I wouldn't take a Paladin's powers away just yet. A nightmare or some other omen might compel the Paladin to own up to the truth. There's nothing wrong with a Paladin using Tact. Tact can be taken to the point of lying, but if his intent is to tell the truth then Tact can be used to soften the blow. For example: I played a Paladin that felt too humble to offer his objective opinions to others. There was a gorgeous female NPC that was always trying to win my Paladin's affections, and she started dressing more and more provocatively during each adventure. Finally, she had the Barbarian ask me (she was afraid of asking me herself) how she looked, and after some prodding, I said, "She's as beautiful as one of King Osric's harem." The ladies of King Osric's harem are incredibly beautiful, but if you thought about it, my statement also implied that I thought she was obvious. As far as disguise goes, it is said that it should be used as a last resort. However, as a DM, I'm very loose about this rule. If it's the best way into an enemy stronghold, I'm not going to dock a Paladin's powers or even give him grief about it afterward. What is defined as cheating? Is attacking someone who is flat footed with a sneak attack cheating? Is laying in ambush cheating? How about Coup De Grace on a foe? I think a paladin should be able to ambush someone, under certain circumstances. A paladin should at least be able to ambush undead and evil outsiders... and CDG should be allowed on evil foes that haven't surrendered, even if they are helpless... Once, I had a Paladin come upon a group of defenseless orc females and their children. They were evil, and the Paladin had a choice. He could let them live, and hope that his mercy would have some sort of impact on them, in spite of the fact that he killed most of the male orcs. Or, he could kill them. Paladins are the pinnacle of fair play even toward those who wouldn't give it to him. However, this could be interpreted differently from DM to DM. Some may view Paladins as merciless toward evil. Some may have them offer quarter no matter what. For my campaign, given the situation that I present, a Coup De Grace is only used to end an enemy's suffering. Otherwise, a Paladin needs to show quarter to his enemies when possible. The rest I generally agree with Terjon with. You an add rules to the Paladin's Code of Conduct as you see fit, but they shouldn't interfere or infringe on the first rules.
Fithero 05-23-07, 11:20 AM	I once played a paladin with a modified cod of conduct. The Greater good: Everything he did must have been in the interest of the greater good. This was somewhat hard to do at times, but it sort of involved allowing one person to die (even himself) if it meant 10 other live etc. His/her Word: Could lie all he wanted, until he was called to give his word. Up until that point, he could lie all he wanted (as long as it wasnt too evil ends) but when his word was given, it was like iron. Royality and the like would often say "Give me your word that you will bring *insert generic, kidnapped family member here* back" Apart from that, my paladin could pretty much do whatever he wanted as long as it was in the service of the greater good. Probably not what your looking for... but it might help.
Praesul 05-25-07, 10:23 PM	Here's a good source for some sample codes of honor: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/honor.htm#sampleCodesOfHonor