help me not make a stereotype pally? [Archive] - Wizards Community

help me not make a stereotype pally? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
torqboy1080
04-02-04, 07:40 PM My friends and I are starting a new campaign, and I wanted to try my hand at the paladin. We're only allowed PHB races and classes, at least at the beginning, and i was thinking of making him a half-elf. I wanted to stay away from the "greatsword" pally, and to avoid the "sword and shield" pally. I have no idea how I can make him more interesting. I'm having a hard time thinking beyond the "traditional pally mold" for this one. Can you help me think of a cool roleplaying dynamic or two that I could use for this guy? and maybe a weapon he'd use, you know for coolness factor? I was thinking falchion, but I don't have my heart set on it.

:tiphat:
Tytalus
04-02-04, 08:20 PM I'm currently toying with a paladin character myself. To stay away from the stereotype, I was planning on playing a dwarf determined to become a Hammer of Moradin (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040305a).

At the same time, I'd like to avoid the dwarf stereotype of being the gruff, beer-loving fighter and imagine him as a content and reserved yet friendly person determined to play his role in making the world (mostly the world of the dwarves) a better place.

If that's not your style and you want to stick with half-elf, I think (light) flail & shield is a fun combination.
Pocket Ace Pretender
04-02-04, 09:33 PM Be a real hardass. You can uphold the law and good morals etc, and still be a jerk. "Great, I saved your kid, take better care of him next time." Just because you're LG, doesn't mean you have to be nice, right?

You could also use a bow. No one who is anyone uses a bow, especially if they're a paladin.
Sarta
04-02-04, 09:42 PM I'm uncertain which world-setting your game is set in, but you may want to just look at the list of gods which can support a paladin and choose one of the more unusual ones. Once you have done so, simply spend some time and thought on this character's story and how he/she came to become a paladin of such a god. Try to think about what his/her role in society is, long-term goals, likes and dislikes, and how he/she would equip themselves.

Interesting deities for Forgotten Realms: Azuth, Chauntea, Deneir, Eldath, Jergal, Hoar. Milil, Mystra, Nobanion, Savras, Siamorphe, and Sune

Interesting deities for Greyhawk: Ehlonna and Wee Jas

Sarta
Morka
04-02-04, 10:07 PM Be a paladin of Nobanion, the lion god of nobility. (Largely inspired by Aslan.) Use a yellow plate, use the Lion's Shield (a +2 heavy shield with a lion head that can bite 3/day).

Or simply add 2 or 3 levels of ranger, go with 2-weapons fighting and shield-bashing feats. Or 2 weapons fighting with two weapon defense & twin swords style (is your DM allow both).

Or take one or more level of sorceror, and then multiclass with a dragon disciple.

Pocket Ace Pretender is right in a certain way: you don't need to be always nice, and with everybody. You can decide that you hate gnomes for some reason. Of course, being LG, you do what you can to fight this flaw, but it's stronger than you.
Feldspar
04-03-04, 06:41 AM Paladins, with their enhanced mounts, are devastating when mounted. Multiplying smite damage via spirited charge will take a huge bite out of a bad guy. Of course, a lot of people think its impractical because of all the places (dungeons, underdark, etc) you couldn't take your horse. Instead, play a small character like a halfling or a gnome and use something like a riding dog (or maybe a giant badger for the gnome) as your mount.

That's kind of crunchy advice, more of a roll playing hook than role playing one.

Here's an idea for a Paladin that I thought about using. Basically, the guy is NOT a knight. He's not stumping around in heavy armor thinking he's the flower of chivalry and all that crap. He's just a fairly normal guy with a very strong conscience or moral compass. Perhaps his military training came from simple militia training with his village. Maybe his family was wiped out in an orcish raid.

Regardless, he's a drifter now. When the party first meets him, he's probably wearing something like padded armor, carrying a spear or quarterstaff and a rucksack. No one special.

The interesting thing would be the mindset. Rumors that the old dungeon near town still contained riches wouldn't interest him. If asked to join an expedition to plumb its depths he'd say no and that the rest of them were crazy to go messing with who knows what for the sake of greed. Life's too short to voluntarily make yourself some monster's dinner.

But tell him that a child was lost in those ruins ... well then his conscience kicks in and he won't rest until that child is found.
Trydan
04-03-04, 03:06 PM I once toyed with the idea of sorcerer/paladin archer. The idea was to have a brave hero with both arcane and devine. A sort of inspired leader, who started life as a sorcerer, learning from his master (one level of sorcerer). Then, when his master passed away, he was drafted into the kings army, served as an archer, and then slowly gained more and more responsibility. (I went directly to paladin, but some levels of fighter or ranger might be good.)

He later became captain of the archery corp, and no one ever learned his secret as to why he was the best archer in the group (it was that muttered True Strike spell - no somantic component... sweet!). However, he was noble and true and used his secret more as an inspiration to his troops, rather than a way to achieve political gains.
Grox
04-04-04, 02:08 PM Trydan has an awesome concept there.

You could just make the paladin from some sort of non-European cultural background. There's no reason you couldn't have a Zulu paladin with an assegai, small longspear, and tower shield. According to the geography of Zulu culture in our world he couldn't find a horse, but he could have some other kind of crazy mount taken at a higher level (maybe a dire lion).
Lanoitakude
04-04-04, 07:08 PM I played a Paladin named Zelekhut of the Light once. I try to stear away from the norm with my characters, and since I am interested in history, I took inspiration from the Crusades.

Fanatical was a good word to describe Zelekhut. He used a Great Hammer, and focused on maximum damage output. He was exalted, and became a Fist of Raziel (c'mon, ultimate crazy crusader class). He would use Divine Sacrifice as much as possible along with Power Attack and Improved Sunder.

The rest of the party had a difficult time working with him though ever since he used Power Attack/Smite Evil/Divine Sacrifice on the party rogue =)

The fanatical Palladin can be fun to play, especially if you go exalted and/or mounted combat.

Try going dual-shields with 2-weapon fighting and sheild bash feats. Then grab Holy Shield (or whatever it is called from Complete Warrior).
The_Yellow_Dart_Swinger
04-04-04, 10:23 PM You could also try to make a dexterious pally. Forgo that plate mail for some chainmail or even lighter armor and use the rapier and put your feats into things like Dodge or improved initiave.

On another note, you could try talking to your DM to have a different alignment than LG like persay CG and be a pally to some sort of chaotic god. Paladins of Heroinous and the likes is very trite.

There is also a paladin varient in the Unearthed Arcana book that is a CG paladin. Very little is changed except that I belive it reflects the chaotic side a bit more than the normal lawful one. But it's probably a mute point in that you can only use the PHB and standard.
HammerHeart81
04-05-04, 12:03 AM Play a reformist Paladin. LG dosen't mean you agree with the status quo. A Paladin I'm currently plaing left his order cause of coruption within it and taking up the adventuring lifestyle to support himself. He has plans on forming a new order. In addition, he weilds a great axe as opposed to the usual shiled and longsword.
Darkwyng II
04-05-04, 12:16 PM Choosing St.Cuthbert and being an avenging paladin was my first idea. Maybe combined with using a scythe and being the Grim Reaper Of eVIl (Read: "groovie").

A good idea is to find an interesting answer to "Why have I become a paladin?" or "Why have I become a paladin although I am...?"

You could be a drinker or gambler, a sexist, racist or arrogant aristocrat.

Or speak in rhymes - a jolly paladin.
FolcoTook
04-05-04, 05:09 PM It's been somewhat mentioned already, but one concept I have already had is a half-elf paladin who is very mobile. High dex, light armor (no more than studded leather), and used a rapier as his main weapon (take finesse feat to use the high dex bonus for the to hit number). Plan would be to eventually have him as a two-weapon, rapier + dagger, style fighter. I haven't really thought out much on background / personality yet.
JohnSnow
04-06-04, 02:19 AM Actually, there's some real validity to the high dex "Swashbuckler-style" Paladin. Paladins NEED good Charisma and Wisdom. Everything else is negotiable. Typically, they focus on strength and constitution and use Dexterity and Intelligence as the "dump" stats. Try to imagine a smart, dextrous Paladin. This plays well into the swashbuckler concept.

As an aside, the requirements for Duelist are perfectly achievable for a Paladin 7. Alternatively, multiclassing Swashbuckler 2/Paladin 4 lets you do it a level sooner. The hard requirement is 5 ranks of Tumble, which is crossclass for a Paladin (meaning max ranks is Level + 3 divided by 2). Dodge, Mobility and Weapon Finesse are EASY to get (1st level Human + 3rd level feat). TWF can be gotten as well and you'll still have all the feats you need before you meet the other requirements.

The key to making an interesting Paladin is to make a non-typical one. Focus on what makes a Paladin a Paladin. Multiclass if your DM allows it. Multiclassing with Bard, Fighter, Monk, Ranger, Rogue, or Swashbuckler all make for very interesting Paladin characters. Think of Paladin as a mindset. Destiny + Duty + divine blessing + good heart = Paladin.

Aragorn from LotR could easily be used as a model for a very unusual Paladin. He's probably a Ranger/Paladin/Fighter multiclass in D&D terms...but that's an INTERESTING character. Not all Paladins need to be clanking around in heavy armor. Simon from Memory, Sorrow and Thorn is another "Paladin-esque" character. And Sparhawk (from David Eddings' Elenium is a "stereotypical" Paladin type who shatters the mold into tiny pieces. Just think...options...run with what it MEANS to be a Paladin and you'll get ideas.
D.K.R.
04-06-04, 02:41 AM My favorite paladin character was easily taken for a ranger or druid more often than a paladin. He wore leather or hide armor (depending on when in his career you met him), and wielded a longspear decorated with small bones and feathers and such on leather straps, and intricately carved with nature scenes. His mount was a specially trained bear (though medium sized half-elf, by rules, he was 'small' for the norm, at about 5'4" and very light weight); they made a fearsome duo.

By the way, he followed Ehlonna, his racial goddess (goddess of the woodlands, elves, gnomes, half-elves, halflings, rangers and druids) even though she is Neutral Good, my DM allowed for the one-step away in alignment rule - paladins could follow LG, LN, or NG gods and goddesses.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
torqboy1080 04-02-04, 07:40 PM	My friends and I are starting a new campaign, and I wanted to try my hand at the paladin. We're only allowed PHB races and classes, at least at the beginning, and i was thinking of making him a half-elf. I wanted to stay away from the "greatsword" pally, and to avoid the "sword and shield" pally. I have no idea how I can make him more interesting. I'm having a hard time thinking beyond the "traditional pally mold" for this one. Can you help me think of a cool roleplaying dynamic or two that I could use for this guy? and maybe a weapon he'd use, you know for coolness factor? I was thinking falchion, but I don't have my heart set on it. :tiphat:
Tytalus 04-02-04, 08:20 PM	I'm currently toying with a paladin character myself. To stay away from the stereotype, I was planning on playing a dwarf determined to become a Hammer of Moradin (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040305a). At the same time, I'd like to avoid the dwarf stereotype of being the gruff, beer-loving fighter and imagine him as a content and reserved yet friendly person determined to play his role in making the world (mostly the world of the dwarves) a better place. If that's not your style and you want to stick with half-elf, I think (light) flail & shield is a fun combination.
Pocket Ace Pretender 04-02-04, 09:33 PM	Be a real hardass. You can uphold the law and good morals etc, and still be a jerk. "Great, I saved your kid, take better care of him next time." Just because you're LG, doesn't mean you have to be nice, right? You could also use a bow. No one who is anyone uses a bow, especially if they're a paladin.
Sarta 04-02-04, 09:42 PM	I'm uncertain which world-setting your game is set in, but you may want to just look at the list of gods which can support a paladin and choose one of the more unusual ones. Once you have done so, simply spend some time and thought on this character's story and how he/she came to become a paladin of such a god. Try to think about what his/her role in society is, long-term goals, likes and dislikes, and how he/she would equip themselves. Interesting deities for Forgotten Realms: Azuth, Chauntea, Deneir, Eldath, Jergal, Hoar. Milil, Mystra, Nobanion, Savras, Siamorphe, and Sune Interesting deities for Greyhawk: Ehlonna and Wee Jas Sarta
Morka 04-02-04, 10:07 PM	Be a paladin of Nobanion, the lion god of nobility. (Largely inspired by Aslan.) Use a yellow plate, use the Lion's Shield (a +2 heavy shield with a lion head that can bite 3/day). Or simply add 2 or 3 levels of ranger, go with 2-weapons fighting and shield-bashing feats. Or 2 weapons fighting with two weapon defense & twin swords style (is your DM allow both). Or take one or more level of sorceror, and then multiclass with a dragon disciple. Pocket Ace Pretender is right in a certain way: you don't need to be always nice, and with everybody. You can decide that you hate gnomes for some reason. Of course, being LG, you do what you can to fight this flaw, but it's stronger than you.
Feldspar 04-03-04, 06:41 AM	Paladins, with their enhanced mounts, are devastating when mounted. Multiplying smite damage via spirited charge will take a huge bite out of a bad guy. Of course, a lot of people think its impractical because of all the places (dungeons, underdark, etc) you couldn't take your horse. Instead, play a small character like a halfling or a gnome and use something like a riding dog (or maybe a giant badger for the gnome) as your mount. That's kind of crunchy advice, more of a roll playing hook than role playing one. Here's an idea for a Paladin that I thought about using. Basically, the guy is NOT a knight. He's not stumping around in heavy armor thinking he's the flower of chivalry and all that crap. He's just a fairly normal guy with a very strong conscience or moral compass. Perhaps his military training came from simple militia training with his village. Maybe his family was wiped out in an orcish raid. Regardless, he's a drifter now. When the party first meets him, he's probably wearing something like padded armor, carrying a spear or quarterstaff and a rucksack. No one special. The interesting thing would be the mindset. Rumors that the old dungeon near town still contained riches wouldn't interest him. If asked to join an expedition to plumb its depths he'd say no and that the rest of them were crazy to go messing with who knows what for the sake of greed. Life's too short to voluntarily make yourself some monster's dinner. But tell him that a child was lost in those ruins ... well then his conscience kicks in and he won't rest until that child is found.
Trydan 04-03-04, 03:06 PM	I once toyed with the idea of sorcerer/paladin archer. The idea was to have a brave hero with both arcane and devine. A sort of inspired leader, who started life as a sorcerer, learning from his master (one level of sorcerer). Then, when his master passed away, he was drafted into the kings army, served as an archer, and then slowly gained more and more responsibility. (I went directly to paladin, but some levels of fighter or ranger might be good.) He later became captain of the archery corp, and no one ever learned his secret as to why he was the best archer in the group (it was that muttered True Strike spell - no somantic component... sweet!). However, he was noble and true and used his secret more as an inspiration to his troops, rather than a way to achieve political gains.
Grox 04-04-04, 02:08 PM	Trydan has an awesome concept there. You could just make the paladin from some sort of non-European cultural background. There's no reason you couldn't have a Zulu paladin with an assegai, small longspear, and tower shield. According to the geography of Zulu culture in our world he couldn't find a horse, but he could have some other kind of crazy mount taken at a higher level (maybe a dire lion).
Lanoitakude 04-04-04, 07:08 PM	I played a Paladin named Zelekhut of the Light once. I try to stear away from the norm with my characters, and since I am interested in history, I took inspiration from the Crusades. Fanatical was a good word to describe Zelekhut. He used a Great Hammer, and focused on maximum damage output. He was exalted, and became a Fist of Raziel (c'mon, ultimate crazy crusader class). He would use Divine Sacrifice as much as possible along with Power Attack and Improved Sunder. The rest of the party had a difficult time working with him though ever since he used Power Attack/Smite Evil/Divine Sacrifice on the party rogue =) The fanatical Palladin can be fun to play, especially if you go exalted and/or mounted combat. Try going dual-shields with 2-weapon fighting and sheild bash feats. Then grab Holy Shield (or whatever it is called from Complete Warrior).
The_Yellow_Dart_Swinger 04-04-04, 10:23 PM	You could also try to make a dexterious pally. Forgo that plate mail for some chainmail or even lighter armor and use the rapier and put your feats into things like Dodge or improved initiave. On another note, you could try talking to your DM to have a different alignment than LG like persay CG and be a pally to some sort of chaotic god. Paladins of Heroinous and the likes is very trite. There is also a paladin varient in the Unearthed Arcana book that is a CG paladin. Very little is changed except that I belive it reflects the chaotic side a bit more than the normal lawful one. But it's probably a mute point in that you can only use the PHB and standard.
HammerHeart81 04-05-04, 12:03 AM	Play a reformist Paladin. LG dosen't mean you agree with the status quo. A Paladin I'm currently plaing left his order cause of coruption within it and taking up the adventuring lifestyle to support himself. He has plans on forming a new order. In addition, he weilds a great axe as opposed to the usual shiled and longsword.
Darkwyng II 04-05-04, 12:16 PM	Choosing St.Cuthbert and being an avenging paladin was my first idea. Maybe combined with using a scythe and being the Grim Reaper Of eVIl (Read: "groovie"). A good idea is to find an interesting answer to "Why have I become a paladin?" or "Why have I become a paladin although I am...?" You could be a drinker or gambler, a sexist, racist or arrogant aristocrat. Or speak in rhymes - a jolly paladin.
FolcoTook 04-05-04, 05:09 PM	It's been somewhat mentioned already, but one concept I have already had is a half-elf paladin who is very mobile. High dex, light armor (no more than studded leather), and used a rapier as his main weapon (take finesse feat to use the high dex bonus for the to hit number). Plan would be to eventually have him as a two-weapon, rapier + dagger, style fighter. I haven't really thought out much on background / personality yet.
JohnSnow 04-06-04, 02:19 AM	Actually, there's some real validity to the high dex "Swashbuckler-style" Paladin. Paladins NEED good Charisma and Wisdom. Everything else is negotiable. Typically, they focus on strength and constitution and use Dexterity and Intelligence as the "dump" stats. Try to imagine a smart, dextrous Paladin. This plays well into the swashbuckler concept. As an aside, the requirements for Duelist are perfectly achievable for a Paladin 7. Alternatively, multiclassing Swashbuckler 2/Paladin 4 lets you do it a level sooner. The hard requirement is 5 ranks of Tumble, which is crossclass for a Paladin (meaning max ranks is Level + 3 divided by 2). Dodge, Mobility and Weapon Finesse are EASY to get (1st level Human + 3rd level feat). TWF can be gotten as well and you'll still have all the feats you need before you meet the other requirements. The key to making an interesting Paladin is to make a non-typical one. Focus on what makes a Paladin a Paladin. Multiclass if your DM allows it. Multiclassing with Bard, Fighter, Monk, Ranger, Rogue, or Swashbuckler all make for very interesting Paladin characters. Think of Paladin as a mindset. Destiny + Duty + divine blessing + good heart = Paladin. Aragorn from LotR could easily be used as a model for a very unusual Paladin. He's probably a Ranger/Paladin/Fighter multiclass in D&D terms...but that's an INTERESTING character. Not all Paladins need to be clanking around in heavy armor. Simon from Memory, Sorrow and Thorn is another "Paladin-esque" character. And Sparhawk (from David Eddings' Elenium is a "stereotypical" Paladin type who shatters the mold into tiny pieces. Just think...options...run with what it MEANS to be a Paladin and you'll get ideas.
D.K.R. 04-06-04, 02:41 AM	My favorite paladin character was easily taken for a ranger or druid more often than a paladin. He wore leather or hide armor (depending on when in his career you met him), and wielded a longspear decorated with small bones and feathers and such on leather straps, and intricately carved with nature scenes. His mount was a specially trained bear (though medium sized half-elf, by rules, he was 'small' for the norm, at about 5'4" and very light weight); they made a fearsome duo. By the way, he followed Ehlonna, his racial goddess (goddess of the woodlands, elves, gnomes, half-elves, halflings, rangers and druids) even though she is Neutral Good, my DM allowed for the one-step away in alignment rule - paladins could follow LG, LN, or NG gods and goddesses.