Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shandrakor 08-26-05, 07:18 AM	Hi. I'll be playing a gnomish wizard in a few days, but I don't want the party to know he's a wizard. I'd like to trick them into thinking he's either a bard or an incompetent Rogue -- or possibly a really bad Blade Bravo. What's the best way to do this? Any tips on acting bardlike?
Fithero 08-26-05, 08:50 AM	Well you could give him a few ranks in some sort of preform or something like that, and just say your music must be on the fritz when it has not magical effect. You dont even have to pretend to be a rogue, just take a few ranks in hide, Move silently and open lock, so that coveres that. You could use the tattoo spell book variant if you didnt want to carry around a spell book (a dead give away that your a wizard). As for the blade bravo, just make him a dagger thrower (if his dex is decent). He wont hit often, but the fact that your doing it should atleast fool them into thinking your trying to focus on it. And the final....MAIN....point is to hide your character sheet...the gig is up if the other players see "Wizard" written at the top of the page. Later
Sluagh 08-26-05, 09:03 AM	It's awesome fun to play your character as a class you have no skill in :P Basically play your character as though they belonged to the other class; you're just going to suck at it, what with not having the abilities required. For bard, pop a rank or two into one or two Perform skills. Use them frequently (but not TOO frequently). Try to create and tell stories of the group's exploits, try to bring up little known facts of various situations (which, with your lack of Bardic Knowledge, will probably be wrong), and stuff like that. For rogue, pop a rank or two into the classic rogue skills, try to be stealthy, pick locks, disable traps (if you're brave or foolhearty) and the like... use small weapons like daggers... it should be good. Also, in the useless department, you can always opt to purposely fail skill checks... just roll to make sure you don't critically fail and if you want to, just don't succeed. Good luck and have fun.
Fithero 08-26-05, 09:10 AM	I also like playing characters who pretending to be another class to hide the class that they are (kinda like what your doing) The barbarian who tries to act like a civilised fighter..but then looses his temper. The exalted lawfull good fighter who goes around preaching good (while not hiding, he appears to be a paladin) Then there is the sorcerer who tries to pretend to be a wizard. Carries around a book that he pretends to get spells from. On of my personal favourites (and one im working on now) is the Hexblade who tries to hide his dark nature and pretends to be a fighter or rogue. Shame makes for an interesting character concept. Later
Morka 08-26-05, 09:15 AM	You could act to be a fighter. Wear a Full Plate, and use your quatterstaff as a cheap 2-handed weapon (some halflings stole my great axe... damn halfling!). If you're low-level, it'll not hurt very much, because you have 2 or 3 spells a day. At higher level, you can use many wands with your armor. About skills, a fighter have no skills, so you won't have to try search for traps (and trigger them) or pass an hour on a lock.
Shandrakor 08-26-05, 01:53 PM	Well you could give him a few ranks in some sort of preform or something like that, and just say your music must be on the fritz when it has not magical effect.I was thinking of saying I'd been cursed by a shadowed being of great power, and that it had removed all magical//morale effects of my bardic music. You could use the tattoo spell book variant if you didnt want to carry around a spell book (a dead give away that your a wizard). I was going to use the Illusion Mastery Variant from UA; it costs me my bonus Illusion spells/day from being an Illusionist, but I get to treat ALL Illusion spells as mastered. I was going to not have a spellbook at all and just do the Illusion thing...but there are so many spells I want from other schools... ::Sighs:: I'm still trying to decide which I'd rather RP. As for the blade bravo, just make him a dagger thrower (if his dex is decent). He wont hit often, but the fact that your doing it should atleast fool them into thinking your trying to focus on it. :evillaugh :plotting: That's brilliant! I was contemplating trying to sell the 'Bardic Archer' variant -- but this is just so much better. And the final....MAIN....point is to hide your character sheet...the gig is up if the other players see "Wizard" written at the top of the page. Yup -- I reckon I'll show them one with Rogue 1/Fighter 1/Bard XX on top. Save the spells for dire emergencies when the party's not looking, or until the PC's of sufficient level to nonchalantly destroy most things that attack him. It's awesome fun to play your character as a class you have no skill in :P Basically play your character as though they belonged to the other class; you're just going to suck at it, what with not having the abilities required. That's the main PC concept. :D Act like a total bard for 5-10 levels, then SURPRISE! =) For bard, pop a rank or two into one or two Perform skills. Use them frequently (but not TOO frequently). Try to create and tell stories of the group's exploits, try to bring up little known facts of various situations (which, with your lack of Bardic Knowledge, will probably be wrong), and stuff like that. Nice! I was planning to put a few ranks in Perfrom (String Instruments), though I might add P (Vocals) just so I can jump up periodically in the midst of combat and sing little dittys. For rogue, pop a rank or two into the classic rogue skills, try to be stealthy, pick locks, disable traps (if you're brave or foolhearty) and the like... use small weapons like daggers... it should be good. The Spiderskin spell from the Underdark book gives racial bonus to hide, move silently, and some other stuff -- is there a Sorc/Wiz spell that helps with lockpicking & trap disabling? I could always go with Knock, though I don't want anyone with Spellcraft to know what I'm doing. (There at present aren't any casters in the party; there's 1 manifester). Also, in the useless department, you can always opt to purposely fail skill checks... just roll to make sure you don't critically fail and if you want to, just don't succeed. ROFL! I'd completely forgotten about that! That's awesome! Just awesome! Good luck and have fun. I hear and obey. :angelhide You could act to be a fighter. Wear a Full Plate, and use your quatterstaff as a cheap 2-handed weapon (some halflings stole my great axe... damn halfling!). About skills, a fighter have no skills, so you won't have to try search for traps (and trigger them) or pass an hour on a lock.I was thinking about how I could do this. The problem is I don't want to be a totally ineffective wizard (in the event that a TPK is threatened, I'm the only one left standing, or whatever), and the only way I've found to be an Armored Illusionist (besides the Hat of Disguise) is to take the feats Dodge & Iron Will for the Dragonslayer PrC, followed by a level of Spellsword. If it was Mithril Tesselated Githcraft Armor, then I could cast without any ASF chance. And that'd be sweet. If you're low-level, it'll not hurt very much, because you have 2 or 3 spells a day. At higher level, you can use many wands with your armor. My PC (warlock) & the Warmage died (they were the highest-level characters in the party), and now I'm coming back in at 7th level. I was thinking of talking to the DM and seeing if the Rapiers I have at my belt could have a secret wand compartment, and then could be treated as wands. Full Plate will definitely throw them a loop, as no self-respecting wizard would be caught dead in armor. Hmm... What do ya'll reckon is my best bet? If I wear full plate they might expect me to get up front & fight, which would be a BAD THING, given my d4 HD. Gnomes have favored class Bard, so that would be in keeping with flavor, and might help maintain the illusion. Playing a rogue would be bad, but we have another rogue in the party -- as long as he doesn't die... It's probably best to stay away from rogue, in any event -- I wouldn't want to have to actually try and disable a trap. Soo.....fighter-type in Full Plate, Dex-based fighter w/ daggers, or Bard (possibly with daggers or whip)? Which do you think would be easier to 'sell' to the party? And the players behind the party, of course. Small side note: I'm notorious for being the best roleplayer & having the most powerful characters in the group. If I'm totally crappy, they might sense something is amiss. Should I try to sell it as me just wanting to play a bard, or...?
bobothehobo8 08-26-05, 05:30 PM	I think the Bard idea is the best. Wear no armor though. Claim that the Max Dex bonus is too low. "It limits my movement" you say. They think...man...he must have...like...+9 Dex or something...wow. Then you proceed to suck with Throwing Daggers. "DANG! Bad luck today! Another miss!" ;) Maybe you have lost your singing voice to some kind of curse? Then be like..."I need to find a healer to remove this curse." Whatever priest/healer you may find, make up an excuse not to have Remove Curse cast on you. "Hmm...I don't trust this guy... look at his shifty eyes..." Heh. I'm working on my "killer gnome"'s backstory too. No where similar to yours though...
Gingerbread Guy 08-26-05, 08:41 PM	If you really want to convince the rest of the party that you're useless, then simply act useless. Bungle things intentionally, don't offer good ideas when you get them, and so on. Why you'd want to do this is sorta beyond me (doesn't sound like you'll be making any friends, in or out of character lol). If you want to keep people guessing about your character class, all you have to do is not use any powers that are class-specific. Don't cast any spells while people are looking, don't use bardic music, etc. I rather enjoy challenging class stereotypes, and my friends are used to having to guess what class my character is from. Right now I'm playing a Transmuter who has his best stats in strength and con, took martial weapon proficiency in the greataxe and generally acts like a brute. He doesn't have any armor, but people just tend to assume he's poor (which he is). I haven't needed to cast any spells yet, so they still have no idea i'm a wizard. The character is actually quite embarassed that he's a wizard (he thinks spells are for wimps, but he has to admit that magic is usefull) and he doesn't want anyone to know. I'm having a blast. ~Ginger
schof 08-26-05, 09:21 PM	i recommend pretending to be a bard, so you can stay out of combat and not get owned with your low hp, plus its easy to rp a bard by just singing or reciting and if it doesnt do anything they wont usually know the difference in addition when people in game ask what your skills are just say your kind of a jack-of-all-trades to throw them off, they will assume rogue most likely plus it will give them the truth that your trying to pursue other trades, without breaking character
Shandrakor 08-26-05, 10:01 PM	I think the Bard idea is the best. Wear no armor though. Claim that the Max Dex bonus is too low. "It limits my movement" you say. For I am the Bard of DOOM! The party's reaction: :confused: :eek: :ahem: :pbbbtt: :noway: :rant: :tantrum: My reaction to the party's reaction: :w00t: :dancin: :ayyyy!: :cloud9: They think...man...he must have...like...+9 Dex or something...wow. Then you proceed to suck with Throwing Daggers. "DANG! Bad luck today! Another miss!" ;) That's great -- I'll have to implement that. Some sort of shadowy being cursed him -- which explains his obsession with the Plane of Shadow. (Okay, he's really just in it for the power, but the party doesn't need to know that). Maybe you have lost your singing voice to some kind of curse? Then be like..."I need to find a healer to remove this curse." Whatever priest/healer you may find, make up an excuse not to have Remove Curse cast on you. "Hmm...I don't trust this guy... look at his shifty eyes..."Odds are that another character will die (we average 1.7 character deaths/session) -- and eventually someone will make a cleric. I reckon it's safer to claim it's 'weak'. Heh. I'm working on my "killer gnome"'s backstory too. No where similar to yours though...I'd be interested to see it when you've got it finished. I still haven't finished my build though. :weep: I was going to be an Incantatrix, but I'm thinking of skipping that and going Shadow Adept 1/Mindbender 1/Something Else 8. That would allow me to get in the full 5 levels of ScM. Earth Dreamer's awfully attractive... If you really want to convince the rest of the party that you're useless, then simply act useless. Bungle things intentionally, don't offer good ideas when you get them, and so on. Why you'd want to do this is sorta beyond me (doesn't sound like you'll be making any friends, in or out of character lol). I'm usually the chap who 'happens' upon the answers, solves the riddles, kills the BBEG, etc. Now I'm rping my way into Bungling! If you want to keep people guessing about your character class, all you have to do is not use any powers that are class-specific. Don't cast any spells while people are looking, don't use bardic music, etc. I was contemplating checking to see what spells are on both the bardic & sorc/wiz lists & only casting them -- but that's an awful lot of work. I rather enjoy challenging class stereotypes, and my friends are used to having to guess what class my character is from. Right now I'm playing a Transmuter who has his best stats in strength and con, took martial weapon proficiency in the greataxe and generally acts like a brute. He doesn't have any armor, but people just tend to assume he's poor (which he is). I haven't needed to cast any spells yet, so they still have no idea i'm a wizard. The character is actually quite embarassed that he's a wizard (he thinks spells are for wimps, but he has to admit that magic is usefull) and he doesn't want anyone to know. I'm having a blast. I love stereotypes -- it gives you a base to work from. Everyone assumes a Dwarf fights in melee with an axe (possibly a warhammer), speaks with a thick Scottish accent, & quaffs ale like there's no tomorrow. Everyone (with this group anyway) assumes gnomes are useless, so it shouldn't be too hard to convince them he's a weenie. Love the Transmuter concept!
Shandrakor 08-26-05, 10:04 PM	i recommend pretending to be a bard, so you can stay out of combat and not get owned with your low hp, plus its easy to rp a bard by just singing or reciting and if it doesnt do anything they wont usually know the difference in addition when people in game ask what your skills are just say your kind of a jack-of-all-trades to throw them off, they will assume rogue most likely plus it will give them the truth that your trying to pursue other trades, without breaking character Good suggestions. Gnome lovers unite! BTW: What are some good gnome names? What were your favorite gnomish characters named? I'm looking to give the impression that the PC isn't to be taken seriously.
bobothehobo8 08-27-05, 12:04 PM	Check out that naming section in RoS, actuallly pretty useful. My character's name is going to be Fen "Silvercloak" Dalwed. (meaning: Earthen, White Master) Another one I used long, long ago that I thought was a brilliant gnome name, "Dagon Mintwagon" (Dagon is pronounced like Wagon). But if you can't come up with something, use the gnome word roots from RoS or use a made up word followed by two words joined together that are real words, one of which may or may not rhyme with the first word. I think it sounds good. Another example of the former: Lunbar Pallwann (meaning: Complex Disguise, False Cloak) Another example of the latter: Nerro Tillbarrow. Hope that helps.
interpretivechaos 08-27-05, 12:45 PM	One thing that you could do, is play a bard or rogue with a bunch of sticks (AKA wands). That gives you an excuse to cast a couple spells in a battle that bards can't cast. Carry a very combat awkward instrument (Or at least not sing). Then you can pretend to put it down whenever anyones at all close to you because you don't want to battle the whatever with a cello in your hand. Make sure to take as many ranks in bluff and disguise as you can, so you can both ICly fool them and OOCly fool them. Finally, keep on dropping hints that you think your Shortbow, or whatever you plan to use, is cursed. (Though daggers much harder to get away with if you keep throwing them). Convince the DM to try and "Hide a smirk" whenever you talk about your magical whatever.
Trydan 09-01-05, 03:44 AM	Someone said "hide your character sheet". No... better still is to have a "fake" character sheet! So, you have your real character sheet, and then you make another one, labelled "Rogue" or "Bard" or whatever, and you transfer over everything that could have been that class from your other sheet. What doesn't get written in, are spells and things - but you can have a secret arrangement with the DM for these (e.g. you say "I cast 'Bard Spell 17!", and your DM looks up "17 = Chain Lightning"). If you played a bard, some spells (e.g. Read Magic) would be there anyway - so it would just be for the hefty ones. And for your "power spells", use pseudo-magic items. Pretend your staff (which is just an ordinary staff) is a wand of Lightning (or whatever). I've seen a level 7 Sorcerer pass himself off as a ranger for an entire campaign, and no-one knew the truth. Curiously, he too was a gnome.
Horias_Norehammer 09-04-05, 11:00 PM	I've done similair things such as these and I found a good method with a gnome is only use illusion spells since gnomes are already proficient with illusion spells, so no matter what class you are you can hide it without the other characters knowing. Second, play a coward. As a wizard starting out, you'll have low hit points, so hide. It will drive the other players crazy, but it will certaintly give you a real role-playing nitch. Lastly, if you would like to continue this mask into midlevel play, take silent spell as your first bonus feat, then you can cast a spell without anyone knowing as long as your discreet.
Mysteria 09-05-05, 02:51 AM	I've seen a level 7 Sorcerer pass himself off as a ranger for an entire campaign, and no-one knew the truth. Curiously, he too was a gnome. I'm interested, excuse me for barging in. How did he pull that off? :eek:
I_Cant_Think_Of_A_Name 09-06-05, 03:29 AM	Hey I was wondering since you were allready at it you should fool them completly, not just your class but also (obviously alignment), but greatest roleplaying of all and I'll bow before you if you try :tiphat: , disguise your race(using for instance disguise and bluff skills you could pretend to be a halfling or a small human, the 3rd edition PHB had modifiers for disguising as a different race, don't know about 3.5 though. It's not an easy task, but I thought i might as well sugest it, since you sound like you want to try out strange things like that players expression when campaign ends and you go: OH by the way I was a LE gnome wizard not a CG halfling bard: :OMG! :OMG! :OMG! :OMG! :OMG! :OMG!
Bard-of-all-trades 09-23-05, 01:25 AM	I was in a campaign that had a wu jen. We played this campaign for over a year before I realised that this "simple wu jen" was really a ninja/wu jen. He had just enough wu jen abilities to get by and everything else he did (i.e. the various ninja abilities) he did with "magic items" he had. He would search for traps with his "magic stick" and would walk on water with his "magic potions". One time another character wanted to walk on water with him (as part of a plan we were working on) and he said "OK here's a potion" When the other character went for an unexpected swim, he said "Oh sorry, guess they only work for oriental people" It was a hoot. The only thing I'd warn you about is the whole skill thing. Bards have nearly as many skills as rogues. If you went with the fighter type, you'd be good for skills. But, I do have to admit, the bunch I play with think that the bard as a class is pretty useless. If you played with them, all you'd have to do is say you were a bard and they'd think you were useless no matter what you did. Sounds like a ton of fun; so have fun.
Penknight 09-23-05, 09:42 AM	Also, in the useless department, you can always opt to purposely fail skill checks... just roll to make sure you don't critically fail and if you want to, just don't succeed. I didn't think you actually could critically fail a skill check. Page 63 of the 3.5 Player's Handbook states that "a natural roll of 20 on the d20 is not an automatic success, and a natural roll of 1 is not an automatic failure." If this has been changed please let me know.
Ander Spectacular 09-25-05, 08:44 PM	Its pretty easy to be useless, but if you don't want to cast spells, what are you going to do? The party will eventually assume you are the most worthless party member, which could affect you getting items and such. The key to being useless in a lot of ways is actually being good at something. If you are stuck with the particular idea of a bard, then have tons of knowledge skills and make rolls for that. Also, people will not believe you are a bard if your music doesn't work. While it might sound nice as a story, a half-orc who knows what a bard can do will know you are not one, so an actual D&D player probably would as well. My most recent dragonlance character was a Rogue2/Wizard2/Ranger2/Fighter1/Swashbuckler1/Cleric1/Steel Legionaire1 and maybe some more stuff. My classes made me seem useless, but I was a great jack of all trades and capable of doing lots of useful tasks. I played off the wizard levels for 4 or 5 sessions before I had to use them, but in the meantime I was contributing in various ways to the party. In that same sense, you should be able to mimic some other class effectively. If you throw daggers, or use a bow, your Dex will make up for the lack of BAB, so you appear competent. Also, players will see your rolls when you make them, and if you consistently cannot do anything(even with good rolls), they will know something is up. What is it you think would be best to emulate? Obviously, like I mentioned above, bard would be tough with the lack of music. Perhaps try to emulate a druid or ranger, those are easy to do at low levels. -AS-
ShiverTheBard 09-25-05, 11:48 PM	If you want to avoid the whole arcane spell failure thing, get a Twilight (+1 bonus), Mithril Chain Shirt, No SF, no Armor check. Then you just look like a gnome with a sparkly set of armor.
Sluagh 09-26-05, 07:14 AM	I didn't think you actually could critically fail a skill check. Page 63 of the 3.5 Player's Handbook states that "a natural roll of 20 on the d20 is not an automatic success, and a natural roll of 1 is not an automatic failure." If this has been changed please let me know. Yeah, that's probably right. I'm relatively new into D&D (came in near the end of 3.0 being published) and am heavily entrenched into the old WEG d6 system and the white wolf systems, in which it's possible to seriously botch up a skill attempt... we just kind of pull that over to D&D automatically. However whether there is a critical failure or not is pretty much DM discretion as opposed to a set system.