Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Enaloindir 01-19-04, 06:00 AM	Hello all, I'm creating a new character for a new campaign (starting ECL = 1), and would like your help. I'm currently stuck on pick a class for my character...but first, his background: Enaloindir is physically impressive, but walks with unexpected grace, and manages to move around unnoticed at quite a few opportunities. Fighting with passion, Enaloindir eagerly takes the front row in combat, facing the enemy straight on. He has learned however, that there is a right time for everything, and that choosing the right moment for the attack can mean the difference between success and failure. When he was only a small child, Enaloindir was knocked unconscious and captured by bandits while he was doing a late errand for his father. The small child was sold as a slave, and sent to work in a strip mine. because of his young age, Enaloindir was first assigned to select the best peices of ore from the minings, but as he grew in age and strength, he was assigned tougher tasks, until he had to descend into the mining pit and work the stone for himself. Eventually, Enaloindir managed to escape on a misty day. Search parties were sent after him, and he managed to hide from all of them, except for one. A fight emerged, but Enaloindir has no memories of what happened. All he knows is that Cirrion Thunderflute, a Satyr, found him, gravely wounded, laying among the dead bodies of the members of this search party. The satyr druid nursed him back to health, meanwhile teaching him the ways of the forest. Because Enaloindir didn't remember his own name, he adopted Cirrion's name as a sign of gratitude, and became Enaloindir A'Segin-Dritir, which means Thunderflute in Sylvan. Determined to find the slavers who once kidnapped him, Enaloindir now roams the land. The only clue he has, was that one of the slavers had lost half an ear, and another one was missing his left middle finger. His stats (4d6drop, I rolled really wel :)): Str 16, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 10. I don't know whether to make him a full-class barbarian (with the Whirling Frenzy (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040111a&page=3) class fature variant) or a barbarian with a few ranger levels... Barbarian: The barbarian levels can be explained with the loss of memory he has: Enaloindir entered a fit of rage (which he didn't know he could do, but he was cornered and fought for his life). Because Enaloindir has no formal training as a fighter and fights with his heart and passion, barbarian again seems natural. Barbarian/ranger: The education by a druid and the sneakiness every Satyr has could be translated in the ranger levels. The hatred for slavers could be translated in taking Slavers as his favoured enemy (have to check with DM, but I'd say he only gets the bonus if he knows his enemies are slavers). On the other hand, I could (and plan to do this in case I go for a straight-class barbarian) buy ranks in Hide and Move Silently as crossclass ranks until I reach 6th level, where I'll take the competence feat (custom feat, lets you choose two cross-class skills from one of your classes as class skills for that same class if you have at least 5 ranks in each of them). Even if I take a few ranger levels, I won't progress past level 3-5 or so, because Enaloindir likes being in the front rank of combat a lot more than playing a skirmisher role because being in front gives him the feeling he's protecting the "little kids". Thus, the ranger levels are only to represent his training and education he got while spending time with the satyr druid. What do you think is appropriate? Would picking those few ranger levels be a bad case of powergaming? (I gain better saves, favoured enemy*, Track bonus feat, more skill points, extra combat style feat at 2nd level, endurance at 3rd level), whilegiving up nothing in terms of BAB, only one use of Rage per day (use "extra rage" feat :)), the power scalings of the rage ability, a few levels of uncanny dodge, and at most 4 hp/level) *: we have to investigate a weird series of disappearings to start off with, this might allow me to use the favoured enemy a bit too often...but I'm willing to just skip the favoured enemy altogether) Thanks in advance, Enaloindir
CaoSlayer 01-19-04, 09:05 AM	fighting with grace it is too far away for barbarian... I think that 3.5 ranger/fighter or a 3.0 ranger it is a good way to have your character.
Enaloindir 01-19-04, 10:34 AM	I never said he fights gracefully, I just said he walks around with unexpected grace for someone of his posture (i.e., he has a rather high dexterity.) But even if you extrapolate that to fighting with grace, it matches the whirling frenzy quite well: that type of rage gives a bonus to reflex and a dodge bonus to AC. But, that's just my opinion... In addition, Enaloindir fights with his heart, and never received formal combat training beyond what he learned from Cirrion (the druid). That again suggests barbarian to me. Based on your comment, can I conclude you don't seem to think that the Ranger levels would be out of place? Thanks for your feedback, Enaloindir
CaoSlayer 01-19-04, 10:39 AM	no, because he seems to be kinda wise and not your adverage brute... Also the druid training can be translated into the spells and the companion that he would get later.
Morka 01-19-04, 10:49 AM	Or perhaps a rogue/barbarian. The first level of rogue could represent the different skills he learns while enslaved; to not be too "powergaming", take a few skills in Profession: miner ;). With 3 levels of rogue, you gain evasion, trap sense +1 and 2d6 of sneack attack: usefull if you randomly flank an opponent during a melee. And you only lose 1 BAB. However, I think a satyr druid is better at teaching how to be druid or a ranger than a barbarian. But he could as well get some barbarian followers.
Enaloindir 01-19-04, 11:07 AM	I've already assigned 3 ranks to Profession (miner) and 1 to Profession (woodcutter): to expand the strip mine, the slaves had to cut down trees. (this is the thing that angered the druid. Because Cirrion was too weak to fight the slaver shead on, he generated favorable conditions for the slaves to escape: he was responsible for the fog bank which allowed Enaloindir to escape his guards...) I know it's hard for a druid to teach someone to be a barbarian, but I think the barbarian aspect is something like a natural talent (Enaloindir used it to defend himself from his captors). All Cirrion had to do was provide Enaloindir with the right circumstances to let his emotions take control (fly in a fit of rage). With enough training, Enaloindir could learn how to manage and focus his emotions weel enough to control his rage. Perhaps Cirrion used his Thousand Faces ability to appear as one of the slavers to "anger" Enaloindir... (don't know about this one, as it would make Cirrion at least a 13th level druid. I'd like to have him as a back-up character for when/if Enaloindir dies... Cirrion comes looking for his friend because he hasn't had any news lately, and decides to avenge him. Our DM has a custom Satyr race (a lot less bonuses, but ECL+0), so playing a Satyr is not unrealistic...) Also, training with a bear animal companion (with non-lethal weapons of course) would provide Enaloindir the challenge he needed to improve his combat skills. Thanks, Enaloindir
Morka 01-19-04, 11:25 AM	I agree that raging, fast movement or even uncanny dodge is something natural. But the fact is that a barbarian (and a ranger)is proefficient in all martial weapons, while a druid is forbidden to use most of them, a druid can't teach how to use weapons.
Enaloindir 01-19-04, 11:31 AM	Then perhaps I'll restrict my weapons to those I could have had training in until I find someone who could teach me... (druidic weapons, plus the Battle Axe (-> chopping wood), and the shortbow (-> Cirrion has spent a feat in gaining proficiency with them)). Thanks, Enaloindir
lotterybucks 01-20-04, 06:06 PM	I would go with 2 ranger levels, and barbarian after that. The ranger would be his limited training with the druids. Then his rage and hatred would be represented by barbarian.
LiXinjian 01-20-04, 08:55 PM	It seems you want to play a barbarian at any costs. It's alright: just go ahead and play him as such. It's certainly feasible to have the background you wrote fit a barbarian, with only a few minor tweaks. Just explain how his anger grew as he, too, grew. Perhaps at some point his anger got the better of him, and he snapped violently at one of the slaver. As a result, he was demoted and sent to work down in the shafts, instead of enjoying an easy life appraising the ore. I can certainly imagine a slave being illiterate. Cirrion taught him to keep his anger in check when needed, and when to release it when appropriate. Even if a druid can't use most weapons, tt is possible for one to assist a warrior learning their ways. He has seen others use them, perhaps extensively so if he was an adventurer or soldier once (not really the case here, I admit) and he could give pointers to the barbarian as he experiments with different kinds of self-made weapons (and sometimes improvised ones as well).
Enaloindir 01-21-04, 03:43 AM	Thanks for the various replies...they helped a lot :) I think I'll go with a Barbarian/Ranger for my character. Even though we're playing 3.5E, the DM uses a variant of the Apprentice rules, so I can start out multiclassed :). Anyway, this will be my character: Enaloindir, human male barbarian/ranger, chaotic good. Ability Scores: Str 16, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 10. Skills: (Ranger picked as first class) Climb +5 (2), Heal +5 (4), Hide +7 (4), Jump +5 (2), Knowledge (nature) +4 (2), Listen +5 (4), Move Silently +7 (4), Profession (miner) +5 (4), Profession (woodcutter) +3 (2), Spot +5 (4), Survival +5 (4). Feats: Armor Proficiency (light & medium), Extended Rage*, Iron Will, Track, Weapon Proficiency (light & martial). Class Features: - Ranger: Track bonus feat, wild empathy. Will gain favoured enemy** at 2nd lvl. - Barbarian: Rage (Whirling Frenzy (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040111a&page=3)) 1/day. Will gain fast movement at 2nd lvl. Equipment: Leather armor, heavy wooden shield, dagger, club, shortspear, hand axe***. *: Custom feat. We know the feat is out there somewhere, but we don't have the book. The version we use lets the barbarian rage last an extra 2 rounds, and has no prerequisites (beyond having the rage class feature, of course ;)) (Now, if anybody could give us a hint in the right direction for letting our feat match the official one... :angel: ) **: Perhaps I'll ask my DM if I can swap the favoured enemy for the druid ability "nature sense". The reason is I'd have to take slaver (as an organization), and fear that this might be a bit too powerful considered the campaign. The nature sense also fits the druidic teachings... ***: Enaloindir keeps this hand axe because it is the axe he picked up when fleeing from the mine. He has vowed to use this very axe to bring judgement upon each and every slaver he meets... I'll also take a -2 penalty to all attack rolls (half of the non-proficiency penalty) with non-druidic weapons because of the very basic and limited training Enaloindir has received. Upon reaching 2nd lvl, he'll have picked up enough from the party's fighter to become proficient in all martial weapons. For the rest of his adventuring carreer, I think of going down the Combat Expertise/Improved Disarm route ("If you cut off a bear's claws and pull out his teeth, he will no longer be able to harm you... take your opponent's weapon from him, and he'll cower in fear. You can achieve victory through more subtle means than killing, my boy" -- Cirrion Thunderflute). Enaloindir will try to disarm most enemies that wield weapons, only killing when necessary... Now, my new question: What weapon do you think would fit with Enaloindir's character the most? Long sword, flail? The longsword is an easy weapon to pick up because it's very common...the flail on the other hand grants a bonus to disarm, and is a military version of a farming tool (which fits in with the druidic teachings) Anyway, I hope the DM doesn't hand out too many magical swords, as we currently have nobody fighting with them: Dwarven Fighter/Cleric: Warhammer & Dwarven Waraxe; Half-Elven Ranger: Bow & Dagger; Elven Druid: Shortspear; Elven Sorceror: Bow & Rapier; Halfling Rogue/Wizard(/Arcane Trickster): Sling & Dagger)? Thanks again for your input, Enaloindir
lotterybucks 01-21-04, 04:52 PM	The longsword is an easy weapon to pick up because it's very common...the flail on the other hand grants a bonus to disarm, and is a military version of a farming tool (which fits in with the druidic teachings) flail? isn't a scythe the farming tool? i thought a flail was a morning star with a chain...please correct me if I'm wrong
Enaloindir 01-22-04, 01:00 AM	Hmmm, I thought the flail was derived from a farming implement, used for beating on the wheat, to separate the useful from the non-useful parts (don't know how it's called, something like "chaff"?) The basic idea is that by beating the grain, the wheat grains itself come out of their "jacket" (chaff?), then, the whole mix is thrown in the air, where the wind carries off the chaff, and the useful grains fall back down... The farmer's flail looks like a martial flail, but with a large wooden head (something like a nunchaku with only one or two like in the connecting chain and one large stick to hold it by). I should find a picture to make myself clear :rolleyes: I could be wrong though. :angel: Enaloindir
Sisyfos 01-22-04, 11:49 AM	Heh... one more point: your character could be rogue/ranger. He was probably either a 0 level commoner or a 1st level rogue when he left that camp. "Fighting with passion, Enaloindir eagerly takes the front row in combat, facing the enemy straight on. He has learned however, that there is a right time for everything, and that choosing the right moment for the attack can mean the difference between success and failure." Well... he hasn't really had a chance to see how he fights. He has fought only once and does not remember anything from that (probably got a hard blow to his head instead of doing a barbarian rage :) ) My point is just that, it might be enjoyable to play him as green as he actually is. Build up his confidence later on in the campaign. Ex-slaves are not most likely the most stable and self-respecting people there are. They are timid people with mental and physical scars. If ranger then pick favored enemy humans. You do not need to go out and kill all the humans you meet anyhow. You just distrust people and hit where it hurts when you are cornered. And when you hear that someone is slaver you really go after them (or flee from them... the spot bonuses are nice for that also). Sisyfos
Enaloindir 01-22-04, 11:57 AM	Don't you have to be evil to be able to pick humans as your favored enemy?
Morka 01-22-04, 12:08 PM	Originally posted by Enaloindir Don't you have to be evil to be able to pick humans as your favored enemy? In 3.0, a ranger can only select his own race as a favored enemy if he is evil, but in 3.5 it is no longer recquired, and I approve it. A good aligned human could choose "elves", "dwarves" or any other "usually good-aligned race" as his favored ennemy, but a good drow or a good orc couldn't choose his own race as favored ennemy? That doesn't make sense... So I think that yes, you could choose "human" as your favored ennemy. Against good-aligned humans, you could use your bonus only for the skill bonuses, there is no need to fight humans at all costs.
Enaloindir 01-22-04, 12:40 PM	Seems like I had version mixed up ...:rolleyes: Enaloindir