Help needed to choose alignment of Benevolent Necromancer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Help needed to choose alignment of Benevolent Necromancer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lavis Knight
02-15-05, 05:42 AM Hi ^_^

I was making a Character who would basically do everything a typical Neutral good Character would do. (Emphasis on doing good above all else) with one exception he has no qualms with using Undead to achieve these ends.

Any ideas on an appropriate alignment ^_^?

Thank you ^^

-Lavis :fight!:
Derren S.
02-15-05, 06:42 AM True neutral.

He uses evil means to achieve good goals. That would balance out depending on how good those things are.

The character would always on the verge of falling into evil when some of his acts don't turn out as good as he thought.
Giver_of_Rings
02-15-05, 03:30 PM True Neutral

It would depend how far along he was.

At first levels he could be neutral good for certain. But confronting the horrors and madness of undeath over and over and over had to drain the soul and create a deep depression. Knowing the nature of undeath can give one a detached long-term view of life. Knowing the ultimate end of All Things, can lead to a certain detachment, an air of melancholy, and a certain grimness. It isn't evil, just frustrated joyless apathy. Though after the last negative level is drained and the ability score is damaged, the lure to embrace that darker part of your soul can be quite tempting. To surrender fully to that what is tasted with False Life, Hide Life, and Kiss of the Vampire. And that kind of battle can drain the will of even the most truly good natured soul.

Sorry, it's just the plight of my "good" necromancer, Janos Kildarren.
Veloth The Druid
02-16-05, 08:56 AM I thought that good/neutral characters couldn't use 'evil' magic like necromancy. I wanted my character to be able to control the undead as well when I first started, but then I was told that it wasn't possible.
Derren S.
02-16-05, 09:18 AM Good clerics can't use evil spells. Good arcane caster don't have a restriction besides their own conscience.
ZombieTonyBlair
02-16-05, 10:12 PM Chaotic good!
Don't let other people tell you that using undead is evil!
Resist the steriotypes and so called "rules."
How can animating a zombie to save a kitten from a burning house be evil?
Callista
02-17-05, 03:28 AM It depends on what your DM house-rules about animating mindless undead.

DM ruling 1: Skeletons and zombies are no more than animated objects, and animating them is neutral--and so are the skeletons and zombies.

DM Ruling 2: Skeletons and zombies tamper with the soul of the creature; or are always evil (i.e., will kill kittens if uncontrolled). Creating them is therefore evil.

With the first DM ruling, you can have a CG necromancer (but probably not NG, since zombies and skeletons are socially frowned upon--severely so; making it extremely chaotic to animate them).

With the second ruling, your necromancer can start out CG... but will inevitably drift towards Evil if he animates undead for any but the direst reasons.
ZombieTonyBlair
02-20-05, 08:19 PM Under the 3.5 rules, animated undead are NE. But, since they are mindless, they can only do what you command them to, so they won't go out and do evil things if left alone unless you left orders for them to do so. I believe they are statted as evil because evil magic is necasary to animate them. But just as a CG wizard can summon a Fiendish wolf without endangering his alignment, undead can be animated by a good wizard. If the wizard only does good actions with the undead, his alignment wouldn't change.
TinManFan
02-21-05, 10:09 AM The rules are that using negative energy in anyway is an evil act. You can use neg energy to achieve a good act but it's still tainted by E~V~I~L. I would say your guy is N or CN.

Now as for the poster who said that necromancey is inhearently evil, they're not correct. There are certain spells that're inhearently evil, but there are some that aren't. What about "Speak with Dead" is evil? Nada. Undeath to Death? Nuttin wrong with that. Now "Animate every corpse within 100 miles/level into appropriate HD undead"? Yeah. Pretty evil.
Derren S.
02-21-05, 10:12 AM Using negativ energy is not evil (see Enervation), but creating undead is and whenever you create them you do evil. When you use evil tools/means to do good, you come out as neutral depending on how much good you did with how much evil.
ZombieTonyBlair
02-21-05, 05:41 PM The casting of animate dead is the only automatically evil act. What you do with the undead is entirely up to you. Good acts with them can neutralize the evil act, or even possibly overcome it completely.
aberrant80
02-23-05, 02:11 AM Which leaves us back to the point the best alignment for such a character would be neutral. I simply don't see how animating someone's dead relative or pet or monster can be a good thing. Saving a cat with an animated zombie is a good act. But actually animating the zombie in the first place is not imho.
Sobek
02-23-05, 07:41 PM IMO, Skeletons and Zombies are ok to animate, you are just using the body, the soul is by no means effected, but when you create sentient undead, then we get into the realm of evil.
Sure, the farmers might not think of you as too great of a guy for offering to plow their fields with your skeltons but you know you have done nothing wrong with animating them.
Still Nuetral though, although N/G could work out if you do sufficient acts of good with your undead.
Lomion
02-25-05, 03:47 PM What needs to be remembered is that energy, whether positive or negative is just a tool to be used. Good deeds can be accomplished with "evil" power and vice versa. That being said, there are some simple facts that you cannot avoid no matter how much you wish it were otherwise. Raising undead, of any sort, goes against the very fabric of the natural order and as such is evil in scope. Why because it is believed that what occurs naturally is normal and what is the norm for the world at a whole is considered "good". When someone deviates from the natural/normal cycle (raising undead), they are entering into an evil/unnatural act, despite their best wishes/intent

Look at Dr. Frankenstien, to recall an obvious literary reference. He began his quest out of desire to cure illness and suffering in the world. However his purpose became one of much less noble design without his even being aware of it until long after it had occurred.

I say your guy starts out as a goodie, but would inexorably be drawn down a darker path, most likely without his knowing, consciously at least. But of course this is only fantasy and can be whatever you want it to be.
Vharuck
02-25-05, 04:44 PM As per RAW, NE.

Yup, raising the dead's an evil act according to RAW. And being willing to commit evil to obtain your goals is evil. Just like using enslaved people to build orphanages, or stabbing mayors that the town doesn't like. Yes, the end you saw is good. No, committing evil is not. Ta da!

Man, I fear posting this, as I will be flamed.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lavis Knight 02-15-05, 05:42 AM	Hi ^_^ I was making a Character who would basically do everything a typical Neutral good Character would do. (Emphasis on doing good above all else) with one exception he has no qualms with using Undead to achieve these ends. Any ideas on an appropriate alignment ^_^? Thank you ^^ -Lavis :fight!:
Derren S. 02-15-05, 06:42 AM	True neutral. He uses evil means to achieve good goals. That would balance out depending on how good those things are. The character would always on the verge of falling into evil when some of his acts don't turn out as good as he thought.
Giver_of_Rings 02-15-05, 03:30 PM	True Neutral It would depend how far along he was. At first levels he could be neutral good for certain. But confronting the horrors and madness of undeath over and over and over had to drain the soul and create a deep depression. Knowing the nature of undeath can give one a detached long-term view of life. Knowing the ultimate end of All Things, can lead to a certain detachment, an air of melancholy, and a certain grimness. It isn't evil, just frustrated joyless apathy. Though after the last negative level is drained and the ability score is damaged, the lure to embrace that darker part of your soul can be quite tempting. To surrender fully to that what is tasted with False Life, Hide Life, and Kiss of the Vampire. And that kind of battle can drain the will of even the most truly good natured soul. Sorry, it's just the plight of my "good" necromancer, Janos Kildarren.
Veloth The Druid 02-16-05, 08:56 AM	I thought that good/neutral characters couldn't use 'evil' magic like necromancy. I wanted my character to be able to control the undead as well when I first started, but then I was told that it wasn't possible.
Derren S. 02-16-05, 09:18 AM	Good clerics can't use evil spells. Good arcane caster don't have a restriction besides their own conscience.
ZombieTonyBlair 02-16-05, 10:12 PM	Chaotic good! Don't let other people tell you that using undead is evil! Resist the steriotypes and so called "rules." How can animating a zombie to save a kitten from a burning house be evil?
Callista 02-17-05, 03:28 AM	It depends on what your DM house-rules about animating mindless undead. DM ruling 1: Skeletons and zombies are no more than animated objects, and animating them is neutral--and so are the skeletons and zombies. DM Ruling 2: Skeletons and zombies tamper with the soul of the creature; or are always evil (i.e., will kill kittens if uncontrolled). Creating them is therefore evil. With the first DM ruling, you can have a CG necromancer (but probably not NG, since zombies and skeletons are socially frowned upon--severely so; making it extremely chaotic to animate them). With the second ruling, your necromancer can start out CG... but will inevitably drift towards Evil if he animates undead for any but the direst reasons.
ZombieTonyBlair 02-20-05, 08:19 PM	Under the 3.5 rules, animated undead are NE. But, since they are mindless, they can only do what you command them to, so they won't go out and do evil things if left alone unless you left orders for them to do so. I believe they are statted as evil because evil magic is necasary to animate them. But just as a CG wizard can summon a Fiendish wolf without endangering his alignment, undead can be animated by a good wizard. If the wizard only does good actions with the undead, his alignment wouldn't change.
TinManFan 02-21-05, 10:09 AM	The rules are that using negative energy in anyway is an evil act. You can use neg energy to achieve a good act but it's still tainted by E~V~I~L. I would say your guy is N or CN. Now as for the poster who said that necromancey is inhearently evil, they're not correct. There are certain spells that're inhearently evil, but there are some that aren't. What about "Speak with Dead" is evil? Nada. Undeath to Death? Nuttin wrong with that. Now "Animate every corpse within 100 miles/level into appropriate HD undead"? Yeah. Pretty evil.
Derren S. 02-21-05, 10:12 AM	Using negativ energy is not evil (see Enervation), but creating undead is and whenever you create them you do evil. When you use evil tools/means to do good, you come out as neutral depending on how much good you did with how much evil.
ZombieTonyBlair 02-21-05, 05:41 PM	The casting of animate dead is the only automatically evil act. What you do with the undead is entirely up to you. Good acts with them can neutralize the evil act, or even possibly overcome it completely.
aberrant80 02-23-05, 02:11 AM	Which leaves us back to the point the best alignment for such a character would be neutral. I simply don't see how animating someone's dead relative or pet or monster can be a good thing. Saving a cat with an animated zombie is a good act. But actually animating the zombie in the first place is not imho.
Sobek 02-23-05, 07:41 PM	IMO, Skeletons and Zombies are ok to animate, you are just using the body, the soul is by no means effected, but when you create sentient undead, then we get into the realm of evil. Sure, the farmers might not think of you as too great of a guy for offering to plow their fields with your skeltons but you know you have done nothing wrong with animating them. Still Nuetral though, although N/G could work out if you do sufficient acts of good with your undead.
Lomion 02-25-05, 03:47 PM	What needs to be remembered is that energy, whether positive or negative is just a tool to be used. Good deeds can be accomplished with "evil" power and vice versa. That being said, there are some simple facts that you cannot avoid no matter how much you wish it were otherwise. Raising undead, of any sort, goes against the very fabric of the natural order and as such is evil in scope. Why because it is believed that what occurs naturally is normal and what is the norm for the world at a whole is considered "good". When someone deviates from the natural/normal cycle (raising undead), they are entering into an evil/unnatural act, despite their best wishes/intent Look at Dr. Frankenstien, to recall an obvious literary reference. He began his quest out of desire to cure illness and suffering in the world. However his purpose became one of much less noble design without his even being aware of it until long after it had occurred. I say your guy starts out as a goodie, but would inexorably be drawn down a darker path, most likely without his knowing, consciously at least. But of course this is only fantasy and can be whatever you want it to be.
Vharuck 02-25-05, 04:44 PM	As per RAW, NE. Yup, raising the dead's an evil act according to RAW. And being willing to commit evil to obtain your goals is evil. Just like using enslaved people to build orphanages, or stabbing mayors that the town doesn't like. Yes, the end you saw is good. No, committing evil is not. Ta da! Man, I fear posting this, as I will be flamed.